Struggling against Fox

[C3CC]

Hello there, fellow Mewtwo mains! I need your help to deal with this character. Fox is really quick, although just a little bit more than us now

My biggest problem with him is how ridiculously unfair his attacks are because they have ZERO ending lag or landing lag. The thing can connect attack after attack after attack and a floaty character like Mewtwo just suffers with this. One of my best friends mains him and I can manage to win only a few fights, and I must say that I am, in all modesty, a great Mewtwo player, and he's a great Fox player as well.

There are some things I don't get either. Why does his Side Smash always have priority over my attacks? Sometimes when I'm below the stage and I try to make a comeback, I try hitting him with Forward Air while he's waiting for me to get back on stage, but he always hits first with either his Down Smash or his Forward Smash. I don't get it. Another thing that I don't get is why his Up Air always has priority over my Down Air. I swear to God I input my attack first but he is the one who ends up hitting me.

Another thing I don't get is why I am trying to attack him from above with my Neutral Air and he always manages to hit me with anything. Neutral Air, Up Air, you name it. I can never hit him with my Neutral Air when I'm aboive him.

Any advice would be helpful. Thanks!

 

[Ghidorah14]

Sounds like the first of your problems is that you simply aent playing the matchup right. You keep trying to challenge his attacks and get beat out by them. Mewtwo cant be too aggresive with rushdown characters because their frame data is just plain better. You need to play patiently and know when to go for an attack, and when to back off.

Also, fox loses to shields. This is why I like using bowser vs fox; he literally cant kill you unless you mess up. You have nothing to fear from him grabbing you because it'll never kill you.

You claim to be a great mewtwo player, but complaining that your dair doesnt beat out his upair makes me question that.

 

[C3CC]

Sounds like the first of your problems is that you simply aent playing the matchup right. You keep trying to challenge his attacks and get beat out by them. Mewtwo cant be too aggresive with rushdown characters because their frame data is just plain better. You need to play patiently and know when to go for an attack, and when to back off.

Also, fox loses to shields. This is why I like using bowser vs fox; he literally cant kill you unless you mess up. You have nothing to fear from him grabbing you because it'll never kill you.

You claim to be a great mewtwo player, but complaining that your dair doesnt beat out his upair makes me question that.

I am. I win several matches and even beat one of the Top 10 players in my country in a tournament last month, using Mewtwo, and he was Sheik. I just don't know why my Down Air doesn't beat his Up Air, and I don't know why it's weird for you that I don't know that. Could you please explain?

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I am. I win several matches and even beat one of the Top 10 players in my country in a tournament last month, using Mewtwo, and he was Sheik. I just don't know why my Down Air doesn't beat his Up Air, and I don't know why it's weird for you that I don't know that. Could you please explain?

I think fox's up air is a disjoint and Dair is also slower so it's only reasonable where already light so be careful we mewtwo mains must unite

 

[Ghidorah14]

I am. I win several matches and even beat one of the Top 10 players in my country in a tournament last month, using Mewtwo, and he was Sheik.

Hey man, good for you.

I just don't know why my Down Air doesn't beat his Up Air, and I don't know why it's weird for you that I don't know that. Could you please explain?

Because its faster? Because it hits twice?

Fox's upair comes out on frame 9, whereas m2's dair is frame 15.

How does one manage to be a "great mewtwo player" but doesnt know the fox matchup to the point where they land with dair/try to challenge fox's upair?

 

[KillerJawz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56sEZ1eNPoo

I hope these games are able to help you out in the MU.

 

[C3CC]

I think fox's up air is a disjoint and Dair is also slower so it's only reasonable where already light so be careful we mewtwo mains must unite

That explains it. Thanks!

Hey man, good for you.



Because its faster? Because it hits twice?

Fox's upair comes out on frame 9, whereas m2's dair is frame 15.

How does one manage to be a "great mewtwo player" but doesnt know the fox matchup to the point where they land with dair/try to challenge fox's upair?

I didn't know that part. I don't know much about frame data and stuff like that, and I don't have much experience fighting Fox because I rarely get the chance to play against one, other than my friend. At the tournament I won, absolutely no one used him.

Now, could you please explain the other part? The one where his Forward Smash always beats my Forward Air? Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56sEZ1eNPoo

I hope these games are able to help you out in the MU.

Thanks! It's a really useful video!

 

[Browny]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56sEZ1eNPoo

I hope these games are able to help you out in the MU.

This entire video must be mandatory watching for all Mewtwo mains in learning how to not SD with teleport.

I didn't watch all of it but it makes me happy seeing a Mewtwo recover from below every time, and never SD.

I get a lot of hate for constantly saying it on this forum but seriously, its impossible to SD if you recover from below up into the ledge.

 

[Ghidorah14]

I didn't know that part. I don't know much about frame data and stuff like that, and I don't have much experience fighting Fox because I rarely get the chance to play against one, other than my friend. At the tournament I won, absolutely no one used him.

Do you not practice? I practice against every single character in the game. It's not hard; just fight the CPU.

Now, could you please explain the other part? The one where his Forward Smash always beats my Forward Air? Thanks!

It has more range than fair.

 

[KillerJawz]

This entire video must be mandatory watching for all Mewtwo mains in learning how to not SD with teleport.

I didn't watch all of it but it makes me happy seeing a Mewtwo recover from below every time, and never SD.

I get a lot of hate for constantly saying it on this forum but seriously, its impossible to SD if you recover from below up into the ledge.

haha thank you browny, though I must confess, I did SD in one of these games, though it was due to my sweaty hands ;___; (legit john i swear to god im like a water fountain).

edit: omg i just realised how fitting my picture is right now im dead.

 

[Metros]

haha thank you browny, though I must confess, I did SD in one of these games, though it was due to my sweaty hands ;___; (legit john i swear to god im like a water fountain).

edit: omg i just realised how fitting my picture is right now im dead.

I think your (adorable) picture really represents what Mewtwo has gone through in regards to Smash 4. First there was the trolling with the Greninja reveal... then there was the 5 or so month wait for him to be released, ONLY to have everybody start to hate him and label him one of, if not, the worst in the game.

He deserves a good break

 

[Rhus]

Fox main here, I second Mewtwo as well.

First thing's first; everyone needs to stop calling Fox a rushdown character because he isn't. He is hit and run, bait and punish, in-out whatever you want to call it. His strengths are aligned with disengaging and rengaging, they are not well suited to continued pursuit.

Fox hates shield as has been noted so hiding in shield isn't a bad idea. Learning how to creatively use teleport to land (cancelling, sliding) and using Confusion to throw off juggling attempts. Fox forces you to approach at all times, so practising approaches is a good plan. Well spaced Fairs are safe on his shield as Fox has poor range overall.

Pursue him off-stage every time as he isn't threatening there unless you get caught in a Fair spike (unlikely) and abuse Bair's disjoint to stuff his aerials and recovery options.

Dtilt and Utilt are valuable in stopping his approaches, mostly because they are noticeably disjointed and Fox's priority is flat out bad.

I would personally try to remain patient and stay close enough to him that you can punish his mistakes. Dthrow is actually decent in this MU because of Fox's fall speed and average air speed. If you manage to catch him air dodging, a Dtilt > Fair etc. string will almost end his stock given how strong Mewtwo's kill options are and how light Fox is. If he starts up throwing you to set up a trap, DI offstage where Fox can't pressure you as much.

I'll add more later if I remember.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Fox main here, I second Mewtwo as well.

First thing's first; everyone needs to stop calling Fox a rushdown character because he isn't. He is hit and run, bait and punish, in-out whatever you want to call it. His strengths are aligned with disengaging and rengaging, they are not well suited to continued pursuit.

Fox hates shield as has been noted so hiding in shield isn't a bad idea. Learning how to creatively use teleport to land (cancelling, sliding) and using Confusion to throw off juggling attempts. Fox forces you to approach at all times, so practising approaches is a good plan. Well spaced Fairs are safe on his shield as Fox has poor range overall.

Pursue him off-stage every time as he isn't threatening there unless you get caught in a Fair spike (unlikely) and abuse Bair's disjoint to stuff his aerials and recovery options.

Dtilt and Utilt are valuable in stopping his approaches, mostly because they are noticeably disjointed and Fox's priority is flat out bad.

I would personally try to remain patient and stay close enough to him that you can punish his mistakes. Dthrow is actually decent in this MU because of Fox's fall speed and average air speed. If you manage to catch him air dodging, a Dtilt > Fair etc. string will almost end his stock given how strong Mewtwo's kill options are and how light Fox is. If he starts up throwing you to set up a trap, DI offstage where Fox can't pressure you as much.

I'll add more later if I remember.

Really good insight I keep this in mind next time I play a fox but what would you do if a fox laser camp's you do you approach?

 

[Zarxrax]

I struggle against fox as well, probably my worst matchup. I recently came up with a strategy that I'm going to try out to see how it works. I'm not sure if this is a super idea or not, but it seems pretty solid to me. Basically, I'm going to temporarily pick up fox as a secondary. Rather than grinding against foxes as mewtwo, I am going to learn to play fox. My reasoning is that by doing so, I can learn how fox operates on a much deeper level, and then have more knowledge to know how to exploit his weaknesses when I am playing as mewtwo. If it works out for me and I get a lot better at the matchup, I might expand this into a "cycling secondaries" strategy where I keep learning new secondaries based on whoever my current worst matchup is.

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

I struggle against fox as well, probably my worst matchup. I recently came up with a strategy that I'm going to try out to see how it works. I'm not sure if this is a super idea or not, but it seems pretty solid to me. Basically, I'm going to temporarily pick up fox as a secondary. Rather than grinding against foxes as mewtwo, I am going to learn to play fox. My reasoning is that by doing so, I can learn how fox operates on a much deeper level, and then have more knowledge to know how to exploit his weaknesses when I am playing as mewtwo. If it works out for me and I get a lot better at the matchup, I might expand this into a "cycling secondaries" strategy where I keep learning new secondaries based on whoever my current worst matchup is.

That's actually really smart I hope it goes well for U

 

[C3CC]

I struggle against fox as well, probably my worst matchup. I recently came up with a strategy that I'm going to try out to see how it works. I'm not sure if this is a super idea or not, but it seems pretty solid to me. Basically, I'm going to temporarily pick up fox as a secondary. Rather than grinding against foxes as mewtwo, I am going to learn to play fox. My reasoning is that by doing so, I can learn how fox operates on a much deeper level, and then have more knowledge to know how to exploit his weaknesses when I am playing as mewtwo. If it works out for me and I get a lot better at the matchup, I might expand this into a "cycling secondaries" strategy where I keep learning new secondaries based on whoever my current worst matchup is.

This is actually a great idea. I never thought of it. Thanks!

P.S: Is there any way to make Fox shut the hell up when he does his Neutral Attack string of kicks? That HEEEEEEAAAHH!!!! makes me nuts, I swear.

 

[franniested]

Hello there, fellow Mewtwo mains! I need your help to deal with this character. Fox is really quick, although just a little bit more than us now

My biggest problem with him is how ridiculously unfair his attacks are because they have ZERO ending lag or landing lag. The thing can connect attack after attack after attack and a floaty character like Mewtwo just suffers with this. One of my best friends mains him and I can manage to win only a few fights, and I must say that I am, in all modesty, a great Mewtwo player, and he's a great Fox player as well.

There are some things I don't get either. Why does his Side Smash always have priority over my attacks? Sometimes when I'm below the stage and I try to make a comeback, I try hitting him with Forward Air while he's waiting for me to get back on stage, but he always hits first with either his Down Smash or his Forward Smash. I don't get it. Another thing that I don't get is why his Up Air always has priority over my Down Air. I swear to God I input my attack first but he is the one who ends up hitting me.

Another thing I don't get is why I am trying to attack him from above with my Neutral Air and he always manages to hit me with anything. Neutral Air, Up Air, you name it. I can never hit him with my Neutral Air when I'm aboive him.

Any advice would be helpful. Thanks!

If you were a great mewtwo player, you wouldn't start by calling fox unfair. Low level **** there

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

If you were a great mewtwo player, you wouldn't start by calling fox unfair. Low level **** there

Dude that's just wrong man everyone struggles with something Fox might not be unfair but he does have a point calling someone low level is really dirty man U wouldn't want someone judging U so don't do it to other people that can be considered bullying so take somewhere else

 

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http://smashboards.com/threads/match-up-discussion-vs-fox.417025/