What Should Fox Do in the Neutral?

[Deleted member 269706]

Hey all, so I've recently picked up Fox and I'm really starting to appreciate the character, thinking about making him my new main. My playstyle is generally very aggressive (although I'm not stupid about it, at least not as dumb as I used to be). So now I'm trying to figure Fox out, an seeing what I should be doing in the neural with him, carrying over much of my aggressive play. I'd love to hear the different ways you all approach and bait in the neutral.

 

[EpicSonicLatios]

I can't go in depth now, but mostly you have to be extremely quick, and always moving. Because we are outranged, we need to abuse our speed to the max. Fox also has safe aerials that he can use in the neutral to set up combos, or just beat out certain attacks. Learning how to walk effectively is a MUST imo, because you can be way more precise with your spacing adjustments by walking, and using the tilt stick, you can throw out a quick Ftilt the opposite direction if they whiff. Fox's walk is better than almost every walk in the game. You can approach opponents, but never approach with dash attack (should be reserved as a punishing, combing move in most situations). Before you approach, you have to figure out what the opponent does when you rush them. If they like to shield, you can use a safe AC bair, do a dash grab, or crossup with Dair, nair, or bair. If the opponent likes to empty hop and bait a lot, use your lasers to get them moving. Just be careful not to get too greedy with your shooting. Against slow opponents, lasers are AMAZING, so abuse them as much as you can. Overall, learning how the opponent plays is the most important thing, because fox has so many options that he can use in certain situations. Before you get a grasp for how the opponent plays, play it safe, watch their habits, and look for openings for punishes. If you play it right, you should be able to gather enough information to fight the opponent based on their tendencies. Always watch to see if they change their habits, and adapt accordingly. That's all I have for now, but I could write so much more on this subject. When I have the time, I may make a doozy of a post about it, but that's for another day.

 

[Riyoxas]

That sounds like that would be a very interesting read

 

[luke_atyeo]

I can't go in depth now, but mostly you have to be extremely quick, and always moving. Because we are outranged, we need to abuse our speed to the max. Fox also has safe aerials that he can use in the neutral to set up combos, or just beat out certain attacks. Learning how to walk effectively is a MUST imo, because you can be way more precise with your spacing adjustments by walking, and using the tilt stick, you can throw out a quick Ftilt the opposite direction if they whiff. Fox's walk is better than almost every walk in the game. You can approach opponents, but never approach with dash attack (should be reserved as a punishing, combing move in most situations). Before you approach, you have to figure out what the opponent does when you rush them. If they like to shield, you can use a safe AC bair, do a dash grab, or crossup with Dair, nair, or bair. If the opponent likes to empty hop and bait a lot, use your lasers to get them moving. Just be careful not to get too greedy with your shooting. Against slow opponents, lasers are AMAZING, so abuse them as much as you can. Overall, learning how the opponent plays is the most important thing, because fox has so many options that he can use in certain situations. Before you get a grasp for how the opponent plays, play it safe, watch their habits, and look for openings for punishes. If you play it right, you should be able to gather enough information to fight the opponent based on their tendencies. Always watch to see if they change their habits, and adapt accordingly. That's all I have for now, but I could write so much more on this subject. When I have the time, I may make a doozy of a post about it, but that's for another day.

^^^
this is pretty spot on, follow what epicsoniclatios said and you'll be pretty much set.
Another good thing for using walking over running is that you can shield instantly out of walking.
That might not sound like a big deal, but next time you are playing do a fox trot (the first initial part of a dash) and as soon as the foxtrot starts hold shield, you'll notice that your shield cant come out until the foxtrot animation finishes, and that foxtrot animation can carry you across nearly a third of the stage. Running in and shielding can be really powerful, but if an opponent is quick enough to intercept you with a move during your foxtrot you will be unable to shield it and will get hit and this is very bad, it can lose you a stock, which can be very frustrating when you knew they were going to do a move and you were trying to run in and shield it to punish it but instead of shield coming out you get hit. Walking in and shielding prevents this from happening, so using walk over run is a very good idea when you are already near the opponent.
Also against villiager in particular (and possibly other characters) approaching with walk allows you to instantly duck whenever villager jumps, ducking under villager's slingshot is a very good way to approach and back him into a corner.

If you notice you are being camped and your opponent is punishing you running in, slow down your approaches (even though you are a fast character and you want to be using that speed to your advantage, sometimes that speed can be used against you). By that I mean just slowly walk and shield and box them into a corner, when they run out of room to retreat they will either throw out a move that you can block/avoid and punish, or they'll try and get past you (usually with a roll or trying to jump over you). Keep note of what they do (say they jump over you) and then box them into the other corner, and see if they do the same thing to get out of the corner.


The most important thing, and epicsoniclatios already mentioned it but I thought I'd emphasize, is to ALWAYS be gathering data, a character like fox is very good and just moving around zipping in and out without committing to really fighting whilst watching carefully and gathering data, analyasis is super important because fox isn't really a rushdown character, he is a bait and punish, and to bait and punish you need to have a decent idea of what the opponent likes to do in certain situations.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

EpicSonicLatios luke_atyeo Thanks a ton for all the info you guys, really appreciate all of the info you provided me (and everyone else in this sub-forum) with.

 

[seoh]

I'm a new (competitive) smash player, and I main Fox and I found this really helpful. I was curious about what you said about dash attacking. I have a bad habit of doing it too much to approach. Should I just think about it as limiting my options, since walking and shops allow for many more options, especially safe ones?

 

[Kanunuu]

If you look at high level play, the meta is entirely focused around shield, because of how powerful of an option it is. Very few characters and moves are able to get around it, which is why characters with strong grab games and lagless aerials dominate. Foxes back air, perfectly spaced nair and auto cancel dair are his only aerials that are safe on shield. His butt ftilt and well spaced up tilt is also safe using a combination these moves and grab are your best options for neutral. How you play it is based on your opponent and fox has all of the tools to deal with any type of opponent

 

[Riyoxas]

What does it mean when you say has all of the tools to deal with any type of opponent? I can't seem to understand that.

 

[DKGrayson]

Are we saying "butt f-tilt", or "hip check"?

I like both names.

 

[Kanunuu]

R Riyoxas He has the tools to deal with rushdown, defensive play, and anything in between.

DKGrayson I just call it 'butt-tilt'

 

[luke_atyeo]

I'm a new (competitive) smash player, and I main Fox and I found this really helpful. I was curious about what you said about dash attacking. I have a bad habit of doing it too much to approach. Should I just think about it as limiting my options, since walking and shops allow for many more options, especially safe ones?

if you have a bad habit of doing it too much to approach, maybe think about this and ask yourself this question: Do I need to approach?

 

[seoh]

Ah I see. That's something I don't do, so I'll definitely start thinking about why and when I want to approach, and then how.

 

[DavemanCozy]

What do you Foxes think about using a full-hop air-dodge or short-hop air-dodge in neutral?

 

[Rocketman287]

What do you Foxes think about using a full-hop air-dodge or short-hop air-dodge in neutral?

I rarely do air dodges in the neutral unless I'm at high damage and trying to get through my opponent's attacks. Most of the time people will just hop and throw out an attack, and just leave themselves open for attacks if they miss or don't see it coming.

It's not a bad idea to use them by any means.