What we still need

[GHNeko]

Disagree. What's wrong with having that section of FD stay wall-jumpable. It adds to stage and makes recoveries less straight forward.

What's your reasoning for that stage.

 

[The Cape]

The wall looks extremely odd. Making it a "wall" means that you can already ride up it, but it makes wall jumps look extremely awkward. Below the lip is fine, but the lip itself just plain looks awkward.

Updated the stuff I posted in the earlier post with the Falcon physics and the speed change for Jiggs U throw.

Where are the .pacs that Blind and Viet were working on?

 

[VietGeek]

Cape I'm gonna nag you about this again:

Wolf being able to reflect stuff on the first sub-action.

According to this post: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8929074&postcount=459

reflection doesn't work precisely because of the Super Armor you added (and the Invincibility you took away).

How would one go about fixing that? Wolf and Fox's Reflectors are programmed exactly the same but they don't use Defensive Collisions to my knowledge.

Finally, is aerial Wolf reflector suppose to still have invincibility on frame 3? I noticed it actually still works, and it's been hidden from our eyes for a while.

 

[The Cape]

I am unsure, I may have edited it incorrectly. Also the only change that I made was to change the invunlnerability with super armor. Meaning that the move was ****tily coded before. My guess is that you can just move the reflection timing to the first frame and it should be fine. Look at Falco's on that, since the reflect comes out before the hitbox.


OK, so I was right. I loaded up vBrawl and shot a Samus blast at Wolf in 1/4 speed. The blast went through him for the first 8 frames of shine and if I held the shine it reflected, if I did not it hit Wolf.

This is how the move works:

Press Action (DownB) > Hitbox > Hold/Release
Hold > Release/Reflect
Release

Basically if we can change the first action to having reflect as well as during the hold mechanism it will fix the issue.

 

[GHNeko]

The wall looks extremely odd. Making it a "wall" means that you can already ride up it, but it makes wall jumps look extremely awkward. Below the lip is fine, but the lip itself just plain looks awkward

Functionality > Aesthetics in this case, but that's what I think.

Riding up the lip of PS1 and FD could be considered awkward looking too.

 

[Veril]

Cape, I don't understand why you made an Ike .pac when I said flat out that we aren't going to change Ike any more. Kirby and Jiggs were already done by Blind, and he is working on Marth/Zelda atm iirc. The Mario up-tilt change wasn't something we initially discussed, please explain that.

The ZSS change works out as intended, haven't checked out the new Wolf physics, does that .pac have the new side-b hitbox as well? I'll check and see how Falcon's CG weakness pans out with the new .pac. Zelda still needs Blind's new reflector, but I really like the change you made to her upsmash, IN THEORY (gotta test that ****)

Thanks for making these. <3


Except Ike, you've got to give up on that.

 

[The Cape]

You obviously didnt download the files before you made that post which makes me want to just ignore the whole thing.

The Ike sideB was a .pac and a frame speed line and I say it YET AGAIN (This should be the Brawl+ motto): Try it before you start *****ing.

Jiggs is not a .pac as I know that Blinds made it. This only includes the frame speed line for her U throw.
Kirby .pac was discussed with Blinds. Same thing he did + F throw

Zelda was made by Leaf, talking to Blinds about adding his reflect fix on that as well.

Physics are all in the .gct, not the .pac files. I have the sideB change on Wolf from Viet and will be fixing the reflector issue tonight.

Mario U tilt = doesnt link into itself as much at low percents and is still useful at higher percents. Something we did with most U tilts before and somehow this one never got in (even though it was coded and approved a LONG time ago). I dont see this being an issue with anyone else.

Also, I say have a revote on the Ike sideB (after people you know, try the thing) and the Zelda U smash.

I also want to ask a question about the Charizard upB, why does it need to be aimed? With the ability to ride up stages like FD now (when that **** goes in) then why do we need to code something that will be a pain in the *** to code and is not even neccesary. Not to mention that Charizard is one of those 1/3 characters and is already great even without it.

 

[Veril]

What part of "we aren't changing Ike" don't you understand. We don't actually have a real reason for doing that other than "its dumb, but totally beatable". I don't need a new .pac to test. Why would we vote on something that I KNOW FOR A FACT ISN'T JUSTIFIED by hard data (I figured out how to punish it on block/perfect shield with everyone) or supported by any Ike mains, unlike changes to say... Jigglypuff. I would guess that Glick, VaNz, and all the conservative minded players agree (feel free to chime in sometime if I'm wrong on that).

On the physics, that was a brain fart.

Mario's up-tilt change makes sense, and that is consistent with other up-tilt changes we've made. I just wanted to know the reasoning D:

Try it before *****ing isn't a line that works or applies to the situation. Save that **** for people who aren't me.

 

[The Cape]

MK and Wolf are completed.


Wolf = side B and shine fixes

MK = IDC Fix

Electric hitlag issue is for Thunderjolt and Elec pikmin throws only. Fix it later?

Edit: Blinds gave me the Luigi.pac

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Has anyone else been able to test out Cape's new .PAC? I ask because I brought all the changes to the latest fest and the response to it from the usual MD/VA suspects were...apathetic. They didn't like them or hate them (except ChaosKnight STILL doesn't like Marth's physics despite the fix). The general impression was that the changes didn't make enough impact to affect gameplay significantly, or even at all (Zelda's and Ike's changes in particular were view as 'almost no different from before. Problems that were meant to be corrected are still there'.

Curious to see if other regions are getting similar reactions.

 

[Yeroc]

Impressions from yesterday's tourney. Take them with a grain of salt if you prefer, but nonetheless:

Wolf sucks
Jiggs is uber-****
Ivy's dair recovery is effing ********

 

[The Cape]

Yeroc also didnt use the changes I would assume.

Thunderhorse, did you have the Ike.pac and/or the new .gct with him in it? And if so, did you guys actually replace both? Its a NOTICEABLE change.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Yes I am positive all your changes were in. Everything in that downloadable package was in my SD card, I made sure to triple check it before I left, so if anything was missing, it was simply not in your downloadable .PAC folder.

They observed that the only way it is you can react from shield is if the side B isn't charged. If it has even the slightest charge, it pushes the opponent back too far to punish OoS (I won't say it's unpunishable, because spot dodges always stuff any side B attempts). Essentially, if it was designed to be punishable from shield, it is still largely unpunishable from shield.

That is the general consensus anyway.

 

[The Cape]

Well according to Veril it was punishable on sheild even before this change was ever made (and this makes it slower). After watching the stream I could see that the speed change was NOT in effect at all (it was in the .gct file) and that could be why you guys didnt notice any of the changes.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

It wasn't on JCaesar's Wii. None of your changes were, and that was used for livestream. All of your changes were on my Wii, which Bionic Sonic, Bandit, CK, and myself tested the changes. Ike's in particular was extremely scrutinized.

 

[Yeroc]

Yeroc also didnt use the changes I would assume.

We didn't use any test pacs. The TOs only had access to the stuff on bp.net, and I never know where any of your test files are until they get put on the site

 

[VietGeek]

Am I to assume that lukewarm reactions...are good? From what I gathered nothing released is to be too radical anyway. I also cannot honestly think someone would be majorly hyped over...Sonic jab...

or perhaps I underestimate...

also CK should speak up (although we're still all pretty limited to mostly gravity settings). None of this ninja Sharingan WATASHI NO ZERO ****

You should ask him what he wants. Since you know, he's kinda the only credible Marth main that consistently plays Brawl+.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

I don't know about you, but I am super hyped for Sonic's new jab. It worked completely brilliantly, and it finally felt like I had a pretty good ground gtfo option and that jab actually had...dare I say it...good priority?!

Even if we didn't fix anything else about Sonic, I say that alone would've pushed Sonic into the decent viable character status like where Lucas is. He seems like a solid mid-tier character now rather than just barely viable.

But back to the original point, no, lukewarm receptions are never a good thing. We always want to have support behind even the smallest decisions we make, or at least a general feeling of "well this doesn't make that much of a difference, but it's nice polish on character X. I don't mind". Such as Sonic's jab changes. Or Mario's changes.

The feeling the other, more major changes garnered (Marth physics, Zelda Usmash, Ike Side B) was more of an apathetic impression with a leaning towards negativity. Something like "well this doesn't make that much of a difference...at all. The problems that this change was intending to fix are still there. And it's a pointless change to begin with". And that is never a good thing.

Also I will ask CK what he's looking for in terms of Marth physics and get back to you with his impressions.

Or he could just not be a ***** and post in the Marth thread .

 

[goodoldganon]

So my friends and I tested capes pacs last night and I figured I'd post some stuff, for what it is worth.

Ike:

Well the change worked and it certainly seemed like we had a slightly easier time punishing a reckless side-b. Fully charged side-bs still seemed basically safe but I think that was ok. Fact is the change worked. I think it's a little awkward for a smash game to have jump canceled move like that, but I guess it wasn't leading into a combo except under the most terrible DI. So this change is good for alleviating low level side-b complaint but it makes little difference on high level play. If anything it forces Ike FURTHER into f-air camp which is a little sad because I think Ike's f-air is in the same boat as D3s back-air but Ike doesn't have **** else to rely on.

Zelda:

The move was beaten more often now which I assume was the point. I think this is the best u-smash yet. If placed and spaced properly it still beats any and all aerial approaches and is the best anti-air in the game. Now if it is placed or spaced or timed poorly Zelda gets punished which is good. I do agree with Veril (I think he said this) that invci frames should be used in the most rarest of circumstances so there may be a better solution yet.

Mario:

I don't play Mario very much but the changes do exactly what Cape wanted them to do. If Mario is deemed slightly underpar then these changes certainly bring him up. I never thought Mario was that bad though...but what do I know.

Kirby F-smash:

Certainly seems more reasonable of a KO move now, but I fail to see why we would make tests on a more powerful KO move BEFORE we shrink boundaries.

Jiggs:

Good work getting the u-throw down from lol status. Was the b-air fixed cause it still seemed stupid huge.

ZSS:

Good change on the d-smash after seeing the vid you posted I tried to recreate it. It's still possible on FF characters at low percents but once past 35%ish it stops chaining to itself. That being said, with any sense of timing it's a free attack on the opponent. Guess it has kinda always been that way and maybe I never noticed...

Sonic:

Great changed all around and loved by the two Sonic friends.

Wolf:

Felt more like a space animal and was certainly easier to combo on, but our resident Wolf main felt thrown off by his new jumping physics and that hurt Wolf's combo game a lot. I'll try and test it again Thursday for a second round. I personally did not test either physics change

Marth:

We play with Roy so no testing.

Falcon:

See Wolf above.


EDIT: Sonic's U-smash is buggy on Kirby. It just doesn't connect with the last hit till 100+ if Kirby was on the ground.

 

[The Cape]

Yeroc and I fixed the electric problems and Lucario's CG.

Making a compilation of everything we have with all the chars and will post a DL for it here soon.