Advice Whiff Punishing

[Vyrnx]

Would anyone be willing to explain a little bit about whiff punishing to me? I know the general definition, but it's something I never consciously think about during a game. I think it's interesting to read how some top players (Samsora, Fatality, etc.) seem to basically view the game largely through the context of whiff punishes. I'd love to be able to incorporate this into my play better if possible. like atm my gameplay is 100% focused on punishing movement options and cornering but when it comes to whiff punishing I'm a big scaredy cat

Do any of you tend to view gameplay through whiff punishes? What are you generally looking for when you play (like, how do you force whiffs, do you look for certain types of movement from the opponent, etc.) What are some of the best moves for whiff punishing, what are some mu specific examples, etc etc

Let me know if these questions don't make sense, years of playing these games but I'm not too knowledgeable about this stuff lol

Thanks!

 

[Spinosaurus]

It's a bit tough, because most of it basically footsies, which is a bit of an all purpose word but whiff punishing has always been the gist of it.

I don't think there's any proper way to convey it because it's a very dynamic way of playing, but if I had to describe the very basic of it, it's getting in your opponent's range for a moment and then backing out, baiting them into attacking while you're in a perfect spot to punish their attempt. It's all about making yourself appear vulnerable.

There's so many more elements to it though, that I'd honestly recommend giving this a read. It's mainly about traditional fighters, but the very fundamental of it applies to Smash.

 

[Shaya]

Whiff punishing has multiple layers/nuances, and is generally the entire crux of what Marth is all about, both against them and as them.
What you're looking at in a particular match up is how does the opponent extend when they attack.

Marth tends to extend out an arm in a vulnerable way during active frames, while Marth would tend to outrange or at the least, outdisjoint you, just about every character has more range than just his sword; so expecting or reading Marth's jump and forward air, you'd ideally be spacing to hit marth's extended hand.
Now if Marth doesn't fair immediately or retreats more than expected, they will feasibly be able to whiff punish your attempt to hit their hand. In the latter case as long as your spacing only entirely for their hand, then you likely won't be in danger of being swung at.

A common match up people bring up for Marth that's "difficult" or "losing" that I've never fully understood is DK/heavies (played against DK as Marth A LOT in the brawl days) is that marth gets outranged and then has issues in disadvantage state: gg.
When I'm playing neutral in those matchups, I'm not trying to hit my opponent where they stand/where I see them - I'm aiming my sword at their extending limb if they were to swing at me. In DK's case, as a non-animation power creeped character, even as his limbs have intangibility, after the active frames his arms are now vulnerable for multiple frames, leaving me in a situation of neutral where Marth/swords in general either win out or are still 'safe' from being whiff punished themselves.

When you read me ******** about animation-creep, a prime example is bayonetta's dtilt in s4 - her grounded sweep kick would swing entirely out of horizontal danger after hitboxes in TWO frames; thus making her almost entirely immune to whiff punishing due to how much range/how strong the hitboxes were on top of it.
Compare to Zero Suit, who was the 'base' template character used for Bayonetta, who would otherwise do the exact same down tilt sweep yet her leg would remain horizontally vulnerable for FIVE frames. It also had close to 20 frames more end lag than bayo's to boot.
Zero Suit's back air did what bayo's dtilt did in s4 too, but i felt was a lot more saner thing considering the precision requirements and the conditions of being in the air/etc, but essentially her roundhouse kick leg would be back in the fore/background in two frames, and as it came from the z-axis, was an ideal whiff punishing tool. In ultimate they nerfed the animation so her leg freezes and stays vulnerable for 2 extra frames.

I guess in an attempt to be succinct, whiff punishing for me is generally about being able to read/anticipate an opponent's action and attack from beyond their reach, which generally would be further away than where that character's "standing" and neutral stance would be.
A natural way to work towards this is to consider an opponent's shield: it extends a hurtbox usually a fair bit ahead of them at it's extremes; if you aim to space perfectly on shields you tend to be at a good spacing for dealing with body extensions from attacks too (and are then also generally entirely immune to immediate OoS options of anyone).

 

[Ffamran]

The video is dated, lengthy at around 49 minutes, and it's on Street Fighter IV, but what Juicebox discusses on footies and whiff punishing applies to fighting games in general: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQQCan5oo90.

If you want a time stamp quote on what whiff punishment according to Juicebox: "Whiff punishment is the act of -- y'know when someone throws a normal out -- you hitting the extended normal to deal damage to them." Starting from 2:00 of the video: https://youtu.be/FQQCan5oo90?t=120.

Essentially, it's responding to, countering, an opponent's missed or failed attempt of an attack, hence, whiff punish where you are punishing a whiffed attack. All attacks have recovery, the amount of frames it takes before the character returns to neutral and can freely act again. It is what happens after a move's startup, the amount of frames it takes before the first active hitbox, and active frames, how many frames the hitbox lasts. The time it takes for a move to recover is what is being punished because after a move whiffs, it's no longer active, it's harmless, and the character has to recover from their attack before they can do something else leaving them open for a counter attack. Some moves have low recovery making them harder to punish and some moves have high recovery making them harder to punish. There's also the variances in startup as well where a move can have high startup, but low recovery such as Meta Knight's and Wolf's Side Smash.

Another thing to consider is input lag. Street Fighter IV had low input lag at around 4.5 frames for the PS4 version of Ultra Street Fighter IV. So, in addition to the player's response time, the game responded quickly as well making whiff punishes more possible if that's a decent way to put it. I don't know what the input lag for Ultimate is.

Practicing whiff punishes or how to do it is easier in other fighting games with training modes that have a record function since you can set the other character to do whatever you want to practice on. You can still practice whiff punishing without it or without a friend to do a certain move for you over and over. Be a bit more troublesome, though.

What are some of the best moves for whiff punishing, what are some mu specific examples, etc etc

In general or character specific? In general, probably something with good range, is safe, and relatively fast. That being said, you could whiff punish someone with a Ganondorf Side Smash if the move being punished has a lengthy recovery. Speaking of Ganondorf, his jab, Ftilt, and Dtilt would be good examples.