GhostUrsa
Smash Ace
Good afternoon everyone. I've been answering questions on other forum threads about good stages for specific characters to fight on when I discovered that we don't have an official Stage Discussion thread specifically for Ike. Now, I know there is a competitive specific thread similar to this on the Competitive Discussions forum, but it's pretty general and doesn't give players a good idea as to what stages are most beneficial to Ike. So, let me be the first to start the discussion.
Some ground rules for the discussion. First, no stage is currently off the table from discussion. I know there are plenty of veterans that hate some stages, or have seen some tournaments that have banned specific stages (like 75M). This is not a thread for picking Bans. Also there maybe some smaller tournaments that players will go to that don't have such restrictions, or gentlemen agreements have 2 players fighting on a stage that aren't your normal Starter/Counterpicks.
Try to keep your posts to what is good and/or not good about a stage for Ike. This will allow better criticism/debate on the stage than "This place sucks!" does. It will as help newer players who are going to tournaments figure out a good pick/counter pick.
Here are the current cliff notes I have on the stages currently discussed. They are a living documentation, so feel free to contest something that doesn't seem right.They have an overall rating out of 5 stars, a list of pros and cons as well as characters to fight/avoid there:
Wii U specific stage evaluations:
3DS specific stage evaluations:
What do you feel is a good stage for Ike?
Some ground rules for the discussion. First, no stage is currently off the table from discussion. I know there are plenty of veterans that hate some stages, or have seen some tournaments that have banned specific stages (like 75M). This is not a thread for picking Bans. Also there maybe some smaller tournaments that players will go to that don't have such restrictions, or gentlemen agreements have 2 players fighting on a stage that aren't your normal Starter/Counterpicks.
Try to keep your posts to what is good and/or not good about a stage for Ike. This will allow better criticism/debate on the stage than "This place sucks!" does. It will as help newer players who are going to tournaments figure out a good pick/counter pick.
Here are the current cliff notes I have on the stages currently discussed. They are a living documentation, so feel free to contest something that doesn't seem right.They have an overall rating out of 5 stars, a list of pros and cons as well as characters to fight/avoid there:
Pros
-Limited recovery options lets Eruption shine
-Less platforms, less destractions
-Sharking is possible
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Too large for weak projectiles to make it across the stage
Cons
-Large top blastzone makes U-smash and U-tilt kills harder, gives aerial focused opponents more breathing room.
-Sharking can get countered
-Lots of room for your opponent to manuver
-Characters with a good projectile game will make you work for your approach
-Limited recovery options makes staying unpredictable harder
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
-Limited recovery options lets Eruption shine
-Less platforms, less destractions
-Sharking is possible
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Too large for weak projectiles to make it across the stage
Cons
-Large top blastzone makes U-smash and U-tilt kills harder, gives aerial focused opponents more breathing room.
-Sharking can get countered
-Lots of room for your opponent to manuver
-Characters with a good projectile game will make you work for your approach
-Limited recovery options makes staying unpredictable harder
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
Pros
-Platform placement allows better High recovery edge guarding options
-Platform size allows for better frame traps, max size is just in our attack range for tilts
-Platforms allow us better mixups for our recoveries.
-Good size blastzones at all angles
-Lots of walk off attach options available, both on and off stage
-Dodging projectile users is a breeze
-Sharking is possible
Cons
-Characters with good aerial combos or far reaching up attacks can frame trap us too.
-Sharking can get countered
-Platform size gives benefit to characters with good dash options
-Characters with low landing lag get to use the platforms to extend their combos.
-We can't pressure opponents below us well when on a platform
Characters to avoid here:
Characters that are a gamble here:
Characters to fight here:
-Platform placement allows better High recovery edge guarding options
-Platform size allows for better frame traps, max size is just in our attack range for tilts
-Platforms allow us better mixups for our recoveries.
-Good size blastzones at all angles
-Lots of walk off attach options available, both on and off stage
-Dodging projectile users is a breeze
-Sharking is possible
Cons
-Characters with good aerial combos or far reaching up attacks can frame trap us too.
-Sharking can get countered
-Platform size gives benefit to characters with good dash options
-Characters with low landing lag get to use the platforms to extend their combos.
-We can't pressure opponents below us well when on a platform
Characters to avoid here:
Characters that are a gamble here:
Characters to fight here:
Pros
-Platform placement allows better High recovery edge guarding options
-Platform size allows for better frame traps, max size is just in our attack range for tilts
-Platforms allow us better mixups for our recoveries.
-Good size blastzones at all angles
-Lots of walk off attach options available, both on and off stage
-Dodging projectile users is a breeze
-Sharking is possible
-Whispy Wood's wind can hinder aerial dependant opponents that dance around on stage/mid-range off-stage
Cons
-Characters with good aerial combos or far reaching up attacks can frame trap us too.
-Sharking can get countered
-Platform size gives benefit to characters with good dash options
-Characters with low landing lag get to use the platforms to extend their combos.
-We can't pressure opponents below us well when on a platform
-Wind from Whispy Wood can throw off our mid-range recovery options.
Characters to avoid here:
Characters that are a gamble here:
Characters to fight here:
-Platform placement allows better High recovery edge guarding options
-Platform size allows for better frame traps, max size is just in our attack range for tilts
-Platforms allow us better mixups for our recoveries.
-Good size blastzones at all angles
-Lots of walk off attach options available, both on and off stage
-Dodging projectile users is a breeze
-Sharking is possible
-Whispy Wood's wind can hinder aerial dependant opponents that dance around on stage/mid-range off-stage
Cons
-Characters with good aerial combos or far reaching up attacks can frame trap us too.
-Sharking can get countered
-Platform size gives benefit to characters with good dash options
-Characters with low landing lag get to use the platforms to extend their combos.
-We can't pressure opponents below us well when on a platform
-Wind from Whispy Wood can throw off our mid-range recovery options.
Characters to avoid here:
Characters that are a gamble here:
Characters to fight here:
Pros
-Techable blast shield platforms next to bumper help with survivability, or setups for KO confirms
-Sharking is possible
-Uneven bridge allows us to dodge small, linear hitboxes easier
-Lower platform forces aggressiveness due to it's constant sliding state
Cons
-Techable blast shield platforms next to bumper help with opponent's survivability
-Sharking can get countered
-Lower platform requires accurate aim to get snap
-Characters can jump through sliding lower platform to pressure our shields with aerials
-Uneven bridge makes some of our tilts and possibly our grab harder to land
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
-Techable blast shield platforms next to bumper help with survivability, or setups for KO confirms
-Sharking is possible
-Uneven bridge allows us to dodge small, linear hitboxes easier
-Lower platform forces aggressiveness due to it's constant sliding state
Cons
-Techable blast shield platforms next to bumper help with opponent's survivability
-Sharking can get countered
-Lower platform requires accurate aim to get snap
-Characters can jump through sliding lower platform to pressure our shields with aerials
-Uneven bridge makes some of our tilts and possibly our grab harder to land
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
Pros
-High Ceilings make it hard to get combo KO'd early
-Tree gives us some extra landing platforms to recovery to against short jumpers
-Walled base platform makes it easier to line up for a spike or prevent sharking against Eruption
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Too large for weak projectiles to make it across the stage
Cons
-Large top blastzone makes U-smash and U-tilt kills harder, gives light weights more breathing room
-Tree gives opponents with a good jump an easier way to chase us for a KO
-Wall clinging is possible to stall for time against Eruption, walls make Aether easier to spike
-The ducks can interrupt combos by delaying animations of attacks when hit
-Lots of room for your opponent to manuver
-Characters with a good projectile game will make you work for your approach
-Limited recovery options makes staying unpredictable harder
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
-High Ceilings make it hard to get combo KO'd early
-Tree gives us some extra landing platforms to recovery to against short jumpers
-Walled base platform makes it easier to line up for a spike or prevent sharking against Eruption
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Too large for weak projectiles to make it across the stage
Cons
-Large top blastzone makes U-smash and U-tilt kills harder, gives light weights more breathing room
-Tree gives opponents with a good jump an easier way to chase us for a KO
-Wall clinging is possible to stall for time against Eruption, walls make Aether easier to spike
-The ducks can interrupt combos by delaying animations of attacks when hit
-Lots of room for your opponent to manuver
-Characters with a good projectile game will make you work for your approach
-Limited recovery options makes staying unpredictable harder
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
Wii U specific stage evaluations:
Pros
-Main platform is near the upper blastzone for easy KOs
-Lower platforms all have snapping ledges, giving advantage to those with good grasp of spacing
-Lower platforms have a smaller size, so attacking from max range is easier
-Two solid platforms at the bottom of the stage grant solid ground for Ike to play with
Cons
-Main platform is near upper blastzone and can be comboed to the side blastzone, so we can be KO'd easier
-Level is too large for Ike to lock in KOs with his Knockback
-All lower platforms can be jumped through, making Aether snap hard and aerial opponents gain more options
-Characters with good dash and close range options will beat out all but our jabs on the platforms
-Layout favors those who can gimp for their KOs at the bottom, which Ike isn't equiped to do
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that will be a gamble:
Notable Characters to fight here:
-Main platform is near the upper blastzone for easy KOs
-Lower platforms all have snapping ledges, giving advantage to those with good grasp of spacing
-Lower platforms have a smaller size, so attacking from max range is easier
-Two solid platforms at the bottom of the stage grant solid ground for Ike to play with
Cons
-Main platform is near upper blastzone and can be comboed to the side blastzone, so we can be KO'd easier
-Level is too large for Ike to lock in KOs with his Knockback
-All lower platforms can be jumped through, making Aether snap hard and aerial opponents gain more options
-Characters with good dash and close range options will beat out all but our jabs on the platforms
-Layout favors those who can gimp for their KOs at the bottom, which Ike isn't equiped to do
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that will be a gamble:
Notable Characters to fight here:
Pros
-Platform height allows easier u-smash traps
-Tilting terrain throws off projectiles, juggles, Auto-cancel timing, edge game, etc.
-Sharking is possible
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Nice ledges for snapping
Cons
-Terrain leaning throws off our tilts, juggle setups and Auto-cancels
-Sharking can get countered
-Platforms are a good height for aerial combo lovers
-Tilting of the ship could steal away our Aether recovery
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
-Platform height allows easier u-smash traps
-Tilting terrain throws off projectiles, juggles, Auto-cancel timing, edge game, etc.
-Sharking is possible
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Nice ledges for snapping
Cons
-Terrain leaning throws off our tilts, juggle setups and Auto-cancels
-Sharking can get countered
-Platforms are a good height for aerial combo lovers
-Tilting of the ship could steal away our Aether recovery
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
Pros
-Variation on the transition's destinations allow potential mixups to happen easier
-Most of the destinations have smaller side blastzones for easier edge guarding
-Rooftop destination has low ceiling blastzone for easy d-throw and up attack KOs
-Waterspiking is Boss!
-Projectile users will have a hard time hitting their target with all the varied terrain, especially with Ike's low crouch
-Sharking is possible on the transition platform
-Platform locations for the transitional arenas have some randomness that makes it hard to be frame trapped
Cons
-Base platform can be jumped through from underneath, throwing off our Aether snap and giving aerial fighters more pressure options
-Platform locations for the transitional arenas have some randomness that makes it hard to frame trap
-Our mobility in water leaves much to be desired
-Some locations have walk outs to the blastzone, giving combo users easier kill potential on us
-Waterspiking is near impossible to survive!
Characters to avoid here:
Characters that are a gamble here:
Characters to fight here:
-Variation on the transition's destinations allow potential mixups to happen easier
-Most of the destinations have smaller side blastzones for easier edge guarding
-Rooftop destination has low ceiling blastzone for easy d-throw and up attack KOs
-Waterspiking is Boss!
-Projectile users will have a hard time hitting their target with all the varied terrain, especially with Ike's low crouch
-Sharking is possible on the transition platform
-Platform locations for the transitional arenas have some randomness that makes it hard to be frame trapped
Cons
-Base platform can be jumped through from underneath, throwing off our Aether snap and giving aerial fighters more pressure options
-Platform locations for the transitional arenas have some randomness that makes it hard to frame trap
-Our mobility in water leaves much to be desired
-Some locations have walk outs to the blastzone, giving combo users easier kill potential on us
-Waterspiking is near impossible to survive!
Characters to avoid here:
Characters that are a gamble here:
Characters to fight here:
Pros
-Wide side blastzones give Ike more survivability
-Town locations have higher platforms to increase our edgeguarding reach
-High platform is close to the upper blastzone for some early KO potential
-City transformation has lower platforms for easier slow projectile dodging and frame trapping
-City Transformation has platforms that allow more off stage recovery room, and easy KOs with grabs
-Sharking is possible
Cons
-Main platform is a little large, favoring speedsters and zoners
-Sharking can get countered
-Town locations have higher platforms that make it difficult to frame trap with our U-smash/u-tilt
-High platform close to the upper blastzone grants characters with good vertical knockback easy KOs on us
-City transformations grant good jugglers platforms to jump off of
-City transformation has ledges close to side blastzone for easier KOs against us for brawlers
Characters to avoid here:
Characters that are a gamble here:
Characters to fight here:
-Wide side blastzones give Ike more survivability
-Town locations have higher platforms to increase our edgeguarding reach
-High platform is close to the upper blastzone for some early KO potential
-City transformation has lower platforms for easier slow projectile dodging and frame trapping
-City Transformation has platforms that allow more off stage recovery room, and easy KOs with grabs
-Sharking is possible
Cons
-Main platform is a little large, favoring speedsters and zoners
-Sharking can get countered
-Town locations have higher platforms that make it difficult to frame trap with our U-smash/u-tilt
-High platform close to the upper blastzone grants characters with good vertical knockback easy KOs on us
-City transformations grant good jugglers platforms to jump off of
-City transformation has ledges close to side blastzone for easier KOs against us for brawlers
Characters to avoid here:
Characters that are a gamble here:
Characters to fight here:
Pros
-Platform size is just right for Ike's spacing game
-Sharking is possible
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Too large for weak projectiles to make it across the stage
Cons
-Blastzones are too large to KO opponents reliably
-Sharking can get countered
-Too much room for your opponent to manuever
-Stalling with fast characters is possible
-Extra platforms make frame trapping harder, make edge-guarding options less reliable
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
-Platform size is just right for Ike's spacing game
-Sharking is possible
-Lots of room to manuvuer
-Too large for weak projectiles to make it across the stage
Cons
-Blastzones are too large to KO opponents reliably
-Sharking can get countered
-Too much room for your opponent to manuever
-Stalling with fast characters is possible
-Extra platforms make frame trapping harder, make edge-guarding options less reliable
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
Pros
-Slightly smaller Blastzones allow for earlier KOs
-Sharking is possible
-Platform height allows walk-off options for Ike
-Can escape projectile camping with platform, can frame trap opponents with aerials
-Platform grants us more options for off-stage recovery
Cons
-Base platform distance allows projectiles to cover all of Ike's ground options
-Sharking can get countered
-Platform length makes U-smash traps harder to land, characters with fast projectiles can cover the platform
-Characters can jump through platform to pressure our shields with aerials, grants combo lovers extensions and more recovery options
-Aether's ending lag makes recovering on platform punishable
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
-Slightly smaller Blastzones allow for earlier KOs
-Sharking is possible
-Platform height allows walk-off options for Ike
-Can escape projectile camping with platform, can frame trap opponents with aerials
-Platform grants us more options for off-stage recovery
Cons
-Base platform distance allows projectiles to cover all of Ike's ground options
-Sharking can get countered
-Platform length makes U-smash traps harder to land, characters with fast projectiles can cover the platform
-Characters can jump through platform to pressure our shields with aerials, grants combo lovers extensions and more recovery options
-Aether's ending lag makes recovering on platform punishable
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
Pros
-Very low Blastzone for KO options
-Sharking is possible
-Platform placement allows us to avoid projectiles easily
-Can apply pressure to those on the platform with F-air or u-smash
Cons
-Very Low blastzone lets those with great Upward attack and throw options better KO options than us
-Sharking can get countered
-Lower platform during transformation can be jump through letting those with multiple jumps pressure us with no punishment
-Stage hazards on the deck of the Halberd can potentially hinder our momentum
-Transformation base requires more accuracy from us to get the snap.
-Halberd's deck gives speedsters a lot of room to manuever
-Walk-offs at the start, plus the speed at which the base rises could potentially cause problems for the unlucky
-Platform is large enough where it is harder to frame trap
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
-Very low Blastzone for KO options
-Sharking is possible
-Platform placement allows us to avoid projectiles easily
-Can apply pressure to those on the platform with F-air or u-smash
Cons
-Very Low blastzone lets those with great Upward attack and throw options better KO options than us
-Sharking can get countered
-Lower platform during transformation can be jump through letting those with multiple jumps pressure us with no punishment
-Stage hazards on the deck of the Halberd can potentially hinder our momentum
-Transformation base requires more accuracy from us to get the snap.
-Halberd's deck gives speedsters a lot of room to manuever
-Walk-offs at the start, plus the speed at which the base rises could potentially cause problems for the unlucky
-Platform is large enough where it is harder to frame trap
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
Pros
-Platform size is just right for Ike's spacing game on the Battlements
-Sharking is possible on the Battlements and the Underground Cavern
-Battlements allow for Ike to have some creative platform play
-Uneven terrain in the Battlements and Underground Cavern can throw off combos/projectiles
-Main platform tipping in the Underground Cavern can throw off projectiles
-Throne Room statues intercept projectiles!
Cons
-Throne Room is a nightmare for Ike against good combo characters!
-Sharking can get countered
-Battlements lower ledge doesn't grant much for spike-proofing for Ike
-Uneven platform placement in the Throne Room and Battlements makes traditional pressure options difficult
-Size of the Throne Room allows faster opponents plenty of stalling.
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
-Platform size is just right for Ike's spacing game on the Battlements
-Sharking is possible on the Battlements and the Underground Cavern
-Battlements allow for Ike to have some creative platform play
-Uneven terrain in the Battlements and Underground Cavern can throw off combos/projectiles
-Main platform tipping in the Underground Cavern can throw off projectiles
-Throne Room statues intercept projectiles!
Cons
-Throne Room is a nightmare for Ike against good combo characters!
-Sharking can get countered
-Battlements lower ledge doesn't grant much for spike-proofing for Ike
-Uneven platform placement in the Throne Room and Battlements makes traditional pressure options difficult
-Size of the Throne Room allows faster opponents plenty of stalling.
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that are a gamble here:
Notable Characters to fight here:
3DS specific stage evaluations:
Pros
-Main platform is near the upper blastzone for easy KOs
-Lower platforms all have snapping ledges, giving advantage to those with good grasp of spacing
-Lower platforms have a smaller size, so attacking from max range is easier
Cons
-Main platform is near upper blastzone and can be comboed to the side blastzone, so we can be KO'd easier
-All lower platforms can be jumped through, making Aether snap hard and aerial opponents gain more options
-Characters with good dash and close range options will beat out all but our jabs on the platforms
-Layout favors those who can gimp for their KOs at the bottom, which Ike isn't equiped to do
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that will be a gamble:
Notable Characters to fight here:
-Main platform is near the upper blastzone for easy KOs
-Lower platforms all have snapping ledges, giving advantage to those with good grasp of spacing
-Lower platforms have a smaller size, so attacking from max range is easier
Cons
-Main platform is near upper blastzone and can be comboed to the side blastzone, so we can be KO'd easier
-All lower platforms can be jumped through, making Aether snap hard and aerial opponents gain more options
-Characters with good dash and close range options will beat out all but our jabs on the platforms
-Layout favors those who can gimp for their KOs at the bottom, which Ike isn't equiped to do
Notable Characters to avoid here:
Notable Characters that will be a gamble:
Notable Characters to fight here:
Pros
-Good layout for avoiding projectiles
-Easy frametrapping on side platforms
-High platform good distance for spaced attacks
-breaking side platform 'ligaments' allows off-stage mind games
-low ceiling blastzone allows for easy KOs
-lava can save us from falling KOs
Cons
-Eggs sacks in the middle of the main platform make Ike's attacks dangerous due to his superior range
-low ceiling blastzone allows characters with good up throws to KO us easier
-Lava can throw off our momentum when chasing a target
-Aether could cut tendons on the side platfroms while we are trying to land on them, as they have no snap.
Characters to avoid here:
Characters that are a gamble here:
Characters to fight here:
-Good layout for avoiding projectiles
-Easy frametrapping on side platforms
-High platform good distance for spaced attacks
-breaking side platform 'ligaments' allows off-stage mind games
-low ceiling blastzone allows for easy KOs
-lava can save us from falling KOs
Cons
-Eggs sacks in the middle of the main platform make Ike's attacks dangerous due to his superior range
-low ceiling blastzone allows characters with good up throws to KO us easier
-Lava can throw off our momentum when chasing a target
-Aether could cut tendons on the side platfroms while we are trying to land on them, as they have no snap.
Characters to avoid here:
Characters that are a gamble here:
Characters to fight here:
What do you feel is a good stage for Ike?
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