Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

1. Giant/Giga/Fury Bowser (Super Mario)
2. Calamity Ganon (Zelda)
3. A New Kirby Boss
4. A New Pikmin Boss
5. Z OR Alpha (Xenoblade)
6. DJ Octavio (Splatoon)
7. Egg Dragoon (Sonic)
8. Rathalos (Monster Hunter)
9. Master Hand & Crazy Hand
10. New OC Villain

Those are all great choices. I think Eternatus from Pokemon Sword and Shield would make for a really fun boss fight as well. It even has mulitiple forms for different stages of the fight. Jenna Anderson and Medusa would be some other fun options.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Not really related to anything but the most recent Deltarune newsletter that dropped this week had a bit about Sans' Mii Costume. Doesn't really confirm or deconfirm anything outright but I think it really does show that if Toby ever gets approached to add more UT content to the next Smash it'll most likely be in the most ****post way possible.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Nero is definitely incredibly popular now and very well liked cause DMC5 was such a good game, but he wouldn't get in over Dante for sure.

That said, Vergil getting in over Dante would be unimagineably based.

 

[Gengar84]

Does anyone know if Undertale is sold in China? I ask because they seem to have a rule against portraying skeletons in media. The only reason why I know this is that Wizards of the Coast had to change all of its Magic the Gathering art depicting skeletons and turn them into zombies visually. Not sure if that’s still a thing or if it would have any impact on their inclusion. I assume not on both accounts since I think Wizards no longer has to change its art and the Sans Mii outfit had no issues.

 

[SharkLord]

Kind of out of nowhere (And I'm sure people covered this back when the game was new) but how do we think Showtime could transfer over to Peach's moveset? The ribbons seem pretty easy to work with, but do we think she'd go as far as to get an extra stance a la Sheik? If so, which costume do you think she'd have? Swordfighter Peach is the obvious, but I fear she'd overlap with marth a bit as a graceful fencer. I was thinking Kung Fu and maybe Ninja Peach had the most to work with overall, but I'm not sure

 

[Gengar84]

Kind of out of nowhere (And I'm sure people covered this back when the game was new) but how do we think Showtime could transfer over to Peach's moveset? The ribbons seem pretty easy to work with, but do we think she'd go as far as to get an extra stance a la Sheik? If so, which costume do you think she'd have? Swordfighter Peach is the obvious, but I fear she'd overlap with marth a bit as a graceful fencer. I was thinking Kung Fu and maybe Ninja Peach had the most to work with overall, but I'm not sure

Sakurai seems kind of hesitant to overhaul any characters moveset from what I’ve noticed. I haven’t played Showtime but I’m not really expecting Peach’s moveset to incorporate much from that game if I had to guess. I can see Peach getting a few alternate outfits based on that game though. I think actual alts is one area Smash still has a lot of room for improvement. Of course, I could be totally wrong and we could see big shake-ups to some character’s moves like Peach and Ganondorf.

 

[Louie G.]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm really not into the idea of changing Peach up too much at all. I have no issues with putting a bit more emphasis on the ribbons since Smash has already been doing that prior to Showtime, but the version we have now demonstrates a more catch-all version of the character that will pretty much always be accurate compared to one that puts too much stock in a (as far as we're aware right now) one-off title that performed moderately well. Super Mario Bros 2 / USA influence is pretty evergreen and continued to be the basis for her playable appearances in games like 3D World anyway.

The most I'd openly welcome is redesigning / retooling a couple ribbon based attacks and switching up her Final Smash. Some of her transformations, namely her Chef outfit, would make for killer alternate skins. But in my opinion Peach is one of the more unique and well crafted characters as is and I don't want them to waste too much time trying to cater to the flavor of the month. They can feel free to swap out Toad if they have anything in mind with him though - that's kind of an odd, disjointed move for the character already and doesn't compliment much of her kit otherwise.

 

[Perkilator]

Kind of out of nowhere (And I'm sure people covered this back when the game was new) but how do we think Showtime could transfer over to Peach's moveset? The ribbons seem pretty easy to work with, but do we think she'd go as far as to get an extra stance a la Sheik? If so, which costume do you think she'd have? Swordfighter Peach is the obvious, but I fear she'd overlap with marth a bit as a graceful fencer. I was thinking Kung Fu and maybe Ninja Peach had the most to work with overall, but I'm not sure

I was thinking along the lines of Pocket Fighter where her Neutral B could start with Swordfighter Peach, then change based on which button you press.

A Button		B Button
​	Swordfighter​	​
Patisserie​	​	Detective​
Ninja​	​	Kung-Fu​
Figure Skater​	​	Cowgirl​
Mermaid​	​	Dashing Thief​
​	Mighty Punch​	​

Basically, it would be functionally similar to Dancing Blade, with the first and last attacks of the special being the same regardless of hat order your pressed A and/or B after Swordfighter and before Mighty Punch. A button attacks would focus on multiple hits, while B button hits would focus on single hits.

(And yes, I suggested this as the neutral special not just to shout out Pocket Fighter, but to advocate for a playable Toad)

 

[Sucumbio]

Peach for me is strongly tied to SMB2 along with Luigi and Toad. So not only do I feel like Peach and Luigi feel great, I also feel a giant hole from Toad missing

 

[Jave]

While we’re on the subject of voice actors and actresses, here’s just a few of my favorites that would be cool to hear in Smash somehow. Unfortunately many of them don’t really play a prominent enough game character to have much a chance but still:

Cristina Vee
Erica Mendez

These are easy:

Spoiler: Cristina Valenzuela and Erica Mendez characters, respectively

 

[dream1ng]

Working on kirby itself is SMash experience!

...no it isn't.

He also worked on 3 kirby fighting game spinoffs, has had multiple games with tons of collectibles AND has done fanservice bMovesets!

Be that as it may, there are developers out there who have actually worked on Smash for probably three games now, with Sakurai. Who come from a background with Tekken and/or SoulCalibur. One of them is far more qualified than the dev of a completely different series of a mostly different genre from a different company.

Can I tell you about Minerva? The badass armored battle axe riding a ****ing dragon? The first Wyvern unit in FE and a genuinely really cool character who is also important to FE3’s plot. There is no way in hell the non-FE crowd would hate her since she is so different from everyone else in Smash currently. Awesome fan art by KaaChunChaan on Reddit illustrates my point PERFECTLY! Also she would be a female superheavy and that would make me and a couple others pretty happy tbh.

View attachment 389646

FE has lots of cool characters who offer much more diversity than the likes of which we currently have from the series, but like Pokemon, unless they fit a very specific role at a very specific time, they really have next to no chance, sadly. :/

Having said that, if they're from FE, and no one is asking for them (which is basically everyone other than Lyn, maybe Alear) they're going to get hate. Lack of moveset originality isn't the biggest thing people are frustrated about with FE representation.

 

[Gorgonzales]

This thought just came to me but I hope they aesthetically change Kirby's inhale to more closely resemble the modern animation for it, where he faces the camera a little more. I want them to use inhale's modern sound effect too, instead of the Game Boy one.

The "lower lip" he gets in his Smash inhale is one of those tiny little things that shouldn't matter at all and yet it's a pet peeve of mine.

Flirting vs Harassment.

 

[Perkilator]

I was thinking along the lines of Pocket Fighter where her Neutral B could start with Swordfighter Peach, then change based on which button you press.

A Button		B Button
​	Swordfighter​	​
Patisserie​	​	Detective​
Ninja​	​	Kung-Fu​
Figure Skater​	​	Cowgirl​
Mermaid​	​	Dashing Thief​
​	Mighty Punch​	​

Basically, it would be functionally similar to Dancing Blade, with the first and last attacks of the special being the same regardless of hat order your pressed A and/or B after Swordfighter and before Mighty Punch. A button attacks would focus on multiple hits, while B button hits would focus on single hits.

(And yes, I suggested this as the neutral special not just to shout out Pocket Fighter, but to advocate for a playable Toad)

On a similar note, they could also give Peach new alts based on some of the dresses she can obtain in Showtime.

1. Default dress
2. Checkered dress
3. Special Detective dress
4. Special Mighty dress
5. Special Kung-Fu dress
6. Fang dress
7. Purrjector dress
8. Spotlion dress

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

This thought just came to me but I hope they aesthetically change Kirby's inhale to more closely resemble the modern animation for it, where he faces the camera a little more. I want them to use inhale's modern sound effect too, instead of the Game Boy one.

The "lower lip" he gets in his Smash inhale is one of those tiny little things that shouldn't matter at all and yet it's a pet peeve of mine.

View attachment 389683View attachment 389685

Flirting vs Harassment.

It's meant to be an homage to the way Kirby traditionally inhaled up to Super Star. Just like over 80% of the Kirby homages in Smash are.

 

[dream1ng]

This thought just came to me but I hope they aesthetically change Kirby's inhale to more closely resemble the modern animation for it, where he faces the camera a little more. I want them to use inhale's modern sound effect too, instead of the Game Boy one.

The "lower lip" he gets in his Smash inhale is one of those tiny little things that shouldn't matter at all and yet it's a pet peeve of mine.

View attachment 389683View attachment 389685

Flirting vs Harassment.

Don't be silly, the Kirby series ended after Air Ride

 

[fogbadge]

if you'll forgive the replying to a topic that's over i just wanted to call back to Gengar84 's VA topic so I could give a shout out to Richard Epcar and Paul St Peter. two voice actors i have nostalgia for and i still get quite pleased when i hear their voices in something (also i suspect gengar may like them too)

 

[TheQuester]

Do you think Jonesy from Fortnite would actually split the fanbase in two for weeks like i heard some people say?
Honestly ifeel most people will move on after a few days, i mean look at Banana Guard from Multiversus, 3 days later, most people seem to not mind much that he's there anymore.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I want them to use...modern...instead of the Game Boy one.

angry Masahiro Sakurai noises

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Jonesy is all about context. Reveal him as a base game inclusion in the next Smash or as one of other reveals in a Direct and yes there will be some grumbling, but there's other big newcomers to soften the blow.

Pull a Byleth with him as the only significant newcomer in a single presentation and the rancor will be worse.

 

[dream1ng]

Do you think Jonesy from Fortnite would actually split the fanbase in two for weeks like i heard some people say?
Honestly ifeel most people will move on after a few days, i mean look at Banana Guard from Multiversus, 3 days later, most people seem to not mind much that he's there anymore.

We'll be fine. There'd be a lot of backlash sure, but people would get used to him. And like Minecraft, even if the inclusion is divisive, you can't really suggest the game doesn't have the merit. To that end, I think people would be displeased, but both understand why it happened, and not be completely blindsided if it did.

Especially the further we get. Because Fortnite's fanbase, again like Minecraft's, will age up and very well may populate a serious contingent requesting representation. Which is a crazy thought, but... once upon a time it was for Steve as well.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Jonesy is all about context. Reveal him as a base game inclusion in the next Smash or as one of other reveals in a Direct and yes there will be some grumbling, but there's other big newcomers to soften the blow.

Pull a Byleth with him as the only significant newcomer in a single presentation and the rancor will be worse.

I seriously doubt people will get super mad over Jonesy, even in a solo presentation. He's a big name, Fortnite's a big deal, and I'd imagine the only people who'd get genuinely upset over his inclusion are a handful of redditors whose sense of humor is stuck in 2019.

 

[dream1ng]

Jonesy is all about context. Reveal him as a base game inclusion in the next Smash or as one of other reveals in a Direct and yes there will be some grumbling, but there's other big newcomers to soften the blow.

Pull a Byleth with him as the only significant newcomer in a single presentation and the rancor will be worse.

This as well.

Though I really doubt he'd be base. Past being a new third-party and just not seeming the type, there's Fortnite audience money on the line as DLC.

And as DLC, it seems entirely plausible he'd be the sole reveal when he's revealed... but there will be divisive DLC characters past him. Cushioning him with someone more popular would be great, but as long as he's not last last... it will probably be alright. Well, not alright... just... survivable, lol.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This as well.

Though I really doubt he'd be base. Past being a new third-party and just not seeming the type, there's Fortnite audience money on the line as DLC.

And as DLC, it seems entirely plausible he'd be the sole reveal when he's revealed... but there will be divisive DLC characters past him. Cushioning him with someone more popular would be great, but as long as he's not last last... it will probably be alright. Well, not alright... just... survivable, lol.

I mean Jonesy wouldn't be as bad reception as certain other reveals in the past have been, I just think he'd be best utilized in a presentation alongside a fan favorite the hardcores would go big for. Essentially a 2019 Nintendo Direct style repeat of two newcomers with Jonesy as the big hook for more casual fans and someone else to please the Smash fandom proper.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I feel like a Genshin Impact character would have a more negative response if anything lol. I hardly think it's a big deal either way though, it doesn't really matter.

 

[dream1ng]

I mean Jonesy wouldn't be as bad reception as certain other reveals in the past have been, I just think he'd be best utilized in a presentation alongside a fan favorite the hardcores would go big for. Essentially a 2019 Nintendo Direct style repeat of two newcomers with Jonesy as the big hook for more casual fans and someone else to please the Smash fandom proper.

Ideally, sure, he wouldn't be revealed alone, but Smash doesn't always opt for reveals that mitigate the most possible backlash, because of how many other factors are also at play. It really comes down to the situation and timing, how frequent the reveals will be, who is near him in release order, where he'd be within the wave, etc. And at this point, all of that is quite abstract.

Also, just because he wouldn't the worst received character Smash has ever had doesn't mean he's not going to still have a very polarizing reveal. The reveals prompt the highest emotions, people then cool down afterwards, and over time. Many third-parties who now are just fully accepted were, upon reveal (or leak), very divisive. Snake, Ryu, Cloud, Bayo, Terry, Steve, etc. Jonesy would certainly be another, and probably worse than a bunch of those.

I feel like a Genshin Impact character would have a more negative response if anything lol. I hardly think it's a big deal either way though, it doesn't really matter.

Maybe? It would get all the anime complaints, but Fortnite just has a stigma for how massive and ubiquitous it is.

It depends how acclimated the fanbase becomes towards the idea of a Fortnite character in the interim before it happened, probably.

Though people knew Steve was a distinct possibility and plenty were still mad about him when it happened, so who knows.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Genshin feels like it would confuse people more than anything (at least in its current status). It's a game so defined by its status as a mobile/PC/Playstation release with no connection to Nintendo (despite the theoretically announced Switch version) that it lacks even the pseudo connection Persona 5 had via SMT and Q/Q2. If we finally get a version on Switch 2 that can definitely change, but it's a game that seems like it would be the WTF selection for many.

 

[SharkLord]

Regarding the possibility of Kumazaki heading Smash after Sakurai, I think he certainly has a good eye for continuity and references that could translate well to Smash, but like dream1ng mentioned, he has little experience with fighting games. He did direct Kirby Fighters 2, yes, but that's a casual spin-off and I'm pretty sure it hasn't gotten quite the same amount of balancing and fine-tuning that Smash had.

I'd say he has some decent potential (though I tend to lean pretty optimistic on most fronts so take my opinions with a grain of salt), but I don't think he could handle Smash on his own at the moment. Preferrably, Sakurai would still be present in a supporting role to guide his successor and help with the nitty-gritty details

 

[fogbadge]

Do you think Jonesy from Fortnite would actually split the fanbase in two for weeks like i heard some people say?
Honestly ifeel most people will move on after a few days, i mean look at Banana Guard from Multiversus, 3 days later, most people seem to not mind much that he's there anymore.

oh i'm sure i'd get over the disappointment at some point

 

[dream1ng]

Regarding the possibility of Kumazaki heading Smash after Sakurai, I think he certainly has a good eye for continuity and references that could translate well to Smash, but like dream1ng mentioned, he has little experience with fighting games. He did direct Kirby Fighters 2, yes, but that's a casual spin-off and I'm pretty sure it hasn't gotten quite the same amount of balancing and fine-tuning that Smash had.

I'd say he has some decent potential (though I tend to lean pretty optimistic on most fronts so take my opinions with a grain of salt), but I don't think he could handle Smash on his own at the moment. Preferrably, Sakurai would still be present in a supporting role to guide his successor and help with the nitty-gritty details

Also just... if Smash was going to go back to HAL, they wouldn't have just laid down what looks like permanent roots at Bamco with Studio S. I know I'm assuming it's Smash related, but... c'mon.

I mean, since leaving HAL, Sakurai seemingly has never gone back to them, or afaik even recruited them for help on the subsequent Smash games, despite having devs over there who worked on the first two. It doesn't seem like the plan is for that IP to return to them.

And frankly the main connective tissue between them is Sakurai, not Kirby. Sure Kirby has some similarities to Smash (mostly due to Sakurai's design style), but has far more differences that would make the current director, a man who has never worked on Smash, a fairly random choice for successor.

 

[JOJONumber691]

A fighter-sized boss would only beg the question of why they aren’t playable.

Hugo isn’t colossal, but he’s the biggest I can think of as a more suitable boss than M. Bison.

View attachment 389652​

I mean why couldn’t they be both a boss and playable? Fighting games do this all of the time and it would be a cool unlockable.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

As much as I'd like another Kirby director to get the reigns to Smash, the only way I would fully accept Kumazaki doing so is if he can make a game that somehow proves him worthy of passing the torch. And no, Fighters 2 absolutely does not count.

 

[Ivander]

Well, this just happened.

Nintendo acquires Shiver Entertainment

Nintendo has acquired Shiver Entertainment, the company just announced. While Shiver worked on Scribblenauts Showdown, it’s largely known for its porting work. The studio previously helped to bring Scribblenauts Mega Pack, Mortal Kombat 1, Mortal Kombat 11, and Hogwarts Legacy to Switch...

nintendoeverything.com

Basically, Shiver Entertainment was mainly a porting studio under Embracer and did the ports for Scribblenauts Mega Pack, Mortal Kombat 1, Mortal Kombat 11, and Hogwarts Legacy for Switch, but they also worked on Scribblenauts Showdown. And likely because of whatever stuff is happening at Embracer, Nintendo has managed to buy Shiver from Embracer.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Well, this just happened.

Nintendo acquires Shiver Entertainment

Nintendo has acquired Shiver Entertainment, the company just announced. While Shiver worked on Scribblenauts Showdown, it’s largely known for its porting work. The studio previously helped to bring Scribblenauts Mega Pack, Mortal Kombat 1, Mortal Kombat 11, and Hogwarts Legacy to Switch...

nintendoeverything.com

Basically, Shiver Entertainment was mainly a porting studio under Embracer and did the ports for Scribblenauts Mega Pack, Mortal Kombat 1, Mortal Kombat 11, and Hogwarts Legacy for Switch, but they also worked on Scribblenauts Showdown. And likely because of whatever stuff is happening at Embracer, Nintendo has managed to buy Shiver from Embracer.

are there any video game companies called Frye Interactive or Big Man Studios.

bottom text

 

[dream1ng]

Well, this just happened.

Nintendo acquires Shiver Entertainment

Nintendo has acquired Shiver Entertainment, the company just announced. While Shiver worked on Scribblenauts Showdown, it’s largely known for its porting work. The studio previously helped to bring Scribblenauts Mega Pack, Mortal Kombat 1, Mortal Kombat 11, and Hogwarts Legacy to Switch...

nintendoeverything.com

Basically, Shiver Entertainment was mainly a porting studio under Embracer and did the ports for Scribblenauts Mega Pack, Mortal Kombat 1, Mortal Kombat 11, and Hogwarts Legacy for Switch, but they also worked on Scribblenauts Showdown. And likely because of whatever stuff is happening at Embracer, Nintendo has managed to buy Shiver from Embracer.

There, Nintendo acquired a western dev. It's all the one we were expecting, right?

So begins "Shiver developing new F-Zero?? Golden Sun??? STAR FOX?!?"

 

[Guynamednelson]

Mortal Kombat 1

I'm a bit iffy about Nintendo buying them because of this. MK1 on Switch is infamously bad, but AFAIK those other ports aren't.

Possibly because I never see anyone mocking the downgrades MK11 had to make.

 

[SharkLord]

Also just... if Smash was going to go back to HAL, they wouldn't have just laid down what looks like permanent roots at Bamco with Studio S. I know I'm assuming it's Smash related, but... c'mon.

I mean it's literally called Studio S. There's other words that start with the letter S, but it's a Bamco team made for Nintendo games and the biggest Nintendo game made by Bamco is Smash so like

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

There's something fundamentally amusing to me that one of the few Western gaming developers that Nintendo's picked up is basically because of a fire sale at Embracer Group.

 

[PeridotGX]

Well, this just happened.

Nintendo acquires Shiver Entertainment

Nintendo has acquired Shiver Entertainment, the company just announced. While Shiver worked on Scribblenauts Showdown, it’s largely known for its porting work. The studio previously helped to bring Scribblenauts Mega Pack, Mortal Kombat 1, Mortal Kombat 11, and Hogwarts Legacy to Switch...

nintendoeverything.com

Basically, Shiver Entertainment was mainly a porting studio under Embracer and did the ports for Scribblenauts Mega Pack, Mortal Kombat 1, Mortal Kombat 11, and Hogwarts Legacy for Switch, but they also worked on Scribblenauts Showdown. And likely because of whatever stuff is happening at Embracer, Nintendo has managed to buy Shiver from Embracer.

Scribblenauts devs? Owned by Nintendo?

Would have been a bit better if it was the people who made the good ones but beggars can't be choosers.

 

[Ivander]

Scribblenauts devs? Owned by Nintendo?
View attachment 389688
Would have been a bit better if it was the people who made the good ones but beggars can't be choosers.

Only Scribblenauts Showdown. The other Scribblenauts games were made by 5th Cell.

Edit: And even then, I think Scribblenauts is owned by Warner Bros.

 

[dream1ng]

I'm a bit iffy about Nintendo buying them because of this. MK1 on Switch is infamously bad, but AFAIK those other ports aren't.

Possibly because I never see anyone mocking the downgrades MK11 had to make.

Well for the time being they're probably going to remain a port/remaster team, and 1) Nintendo's stuff isn't nearly as technically challenging to port as MK1 would've been 2) they're probably going to port up/remaster, not port down and 3) as a first-party they're going to have better access to proprietary tools and Nintendo's direct assistance.

I doubt Nintendo would let them put out anything as bad as the MK1 port. At least not unless it stars a guy in a horse head mask.

I mean it's literally called Studio S. There's other words that start with the letter S, but it's a Bamco team made for Nintendo games and the biggest Nintendo game made by Bamco is Smash so like

Yeah I think it's obvious, but I figured if I didn't include that someone would say technically we don't know if that's the Smash team.

There's something fundamentally amusing to me that one of the few Western gaming developers that Nintendo's picked up is basically because of a fire sale at Embracer Group.

It's all part of the plan. First Shiver, then Rockstar.