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The Official Falco Critique Thread

Veeonix

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Snake Matchup - I know this isn't the place for this but... The MK didn't seem to know what he was doing until the last stock of yours. Then he kept your snake off the ground for like most of the stock. Good Grenade play, but it could use more F-Tilts. F-Tilt is Snake's longest reaching move (I think) and at 4 frames (the first hit) it's pretty safe on shield. Exceptions are MK's hard read grounded shuttle loop without shield, or dashing power shield. People hate dashing at Snake on the ground because it leads to bad things, especially if Sakurai curses you with a trip. So again, it's relatively safe. You need a LOT more F-Tilts. Even if only a threatening knee swing here and there. It's pretty safe if you don't finish the combo. You can finish if the knee hits though obvious. Don't finish if first swing is shielded. Treat it like Jab Canceling, except with F-Tilts instead. His best weapon against MK by far.

Falco Matchup - Well, I'm not sure where to start. I guess with your U-Air use. That's pretty good that you have that move down. You managed to score a lot of direct hits with that. The reason that is useful, is it keeps your B-Air undecayed (relatively) making your one and only B-Air swing more likely to kill, or at least have greater knock-back to reset neutral states. Now, as far as approaching goes, the MK played you like a violin at low percents. He apparently knows that matchup better than the Snake one, so it seems. He was doing what MK does against Falco's on Battlefield. With so many platforms to camp on, you widen the gap between the two characters on that stage. In any case, you kept rushing in. It's a little crazy when you go back and count how many times you were D-Aired while chasing MK to the air at his low percents. Given Falco's tools with reach (Laser, Illusion, Shine, Jab on Platform, Out of Shield B-Air etc) it just doesn't seem important or critical to rush in. Especially with so much time on the clock to spare. Slow things down and be a little more patient. You don't have to approach so much. When you do approach, try not to fall for the obvious traps set by the MK. He was baiting you. Most MK cannot run forever, they just make it look that way. Their goal isn't to avoid getting hit, it's quite the opposite. If you get a chaingrab at zero, the 50% they take is essentially free. However, if they camp and make it ridiculously hard to reach them without clashing, they get to damage you while you damage them. This means they are taking away one of your best traits against MK.

So I guess to sum it up, play a bit more cool headed. Approach when necessary. Use reach over approach when possible (far safer, but less rewarding too). Try not to be baited into things. Even just standing on a platform and shielding pressure's MK away or risks getting B-Aired out of shield. I also noticed you don't use Jab much. Pretty good move considering it's range, and it beats MK's tilts in frame data.
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
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Don't worry about my snake; if i play against him seriously, there is no problem. in friendlies i get a little bit antsy if i'm heavily leading and try to hurry the end of a game so i can start a new one, but i don't do that in tournament. and snake's ftilt isn't very good in that mu, since it gets eaten by tornado.

thanks for your falco comments though. i get pretty hungry in general; need to hang back more. i can issues punishing tornado, but suppose i need to learn the usmash spacing, and react better with reflector. and sideB oos sounds like a good idea too. i actually thought i jab quite a lot, but i suppose i could try jabbing more lol. it's pretty broken.
 

-DR3W-

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I can not even ****ing fathom that character model LOL

What am I watching.

Why are you leaving the stage.

Stop.

Edit: nice use of dair
 

Tesh

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I having so much trouble on stage, I really wanted to score gimps off stage if possible.

Oh the texture is a ridley head falco, im so used to it i didn't think it would be too disruptive to viewers.
 
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hey falcos,

i'm trying to step up falco to the level of my snake, and i need to get better at the mk mu. if anyone has any insight on general prinicples that i need to improve on, that advice would be much appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucmhcDnh9Gc#t=03m58s

i've only got one match at this point.
4:02 - I thought I saw you go into a dash after that laser hit. Perhaps you were trying to go for a grab? At that distance go for a jab or ftilt to take advantage of the hitstun on the laser.
4:06 - Like your punish on MK for Dair spacing on shield.
4:21 - Falling from the top platform and trying to hit with a weak bair while heading towards a retreating MK? At least you weren't punished.
4:29 - Random laser, and usmash when MK was downed on the top platform? You probably should have just SH'd, then waited for MK to do something and following up with 2nd jump -> aerial as a guaranteed punish. Or at least been able to space FH Bair depending upon how he got up.
4:31 - I suppose you realized a mistake and tried FH bair which is why you got hit with the Dair from MK. Otherwise, that shouldn't have hit.
4:32 - You got stuck on the platform in shield. This isn't something I have seen many people attempt, but it might be worth it to learn to platform drop while in shield. You could have gotten a punish on MK with fall Dair, Bair since he got stuck in Fair lag.
4:34 - Dropped form the top platform trying to hit MK with Bair going toward him. It worked, but normally it shouldn't.
4:35 - Maybe you should react immediately with SH lasers once a character gets hit onto a platform. SH nair or Bair would have been better pressure (although, I think MK can UpB SH nair attempts, I have had a couple MKs do it to me consistantly before, but they couldn't really punish spaced SH Bair if they were stuck on the lower platform).
5:01 - I saw this early when MK was downed on the ground. You walked up and shield -> grab predicting that MK would immediately try attacking you. This time you were antipating glide attack. Probably wait a bit longer to confirm they hit your shield before grabbing.
5:03 - Okay, MK tornados through your shield and runs away. In this situation, consider the benefit of punishing with phantasm out of shield. MK is in enough lag to warrant the start up lag of the move.
5:05 - Getting a little hasty there. MK was super far away and Falco's dash attack is better for much closer range as a punisher.
5:31 - I am not entirley sure of how to deal with MK just air camping like that, but SH shine is probably not the best option. The best thing I found was turn your back to him and try timing a 2nd jump, sh, or FH bair to hit MK when he does that.
So, for the next few seconds ulimately with MKs spot dodge your dash grab, I felt you were being a bit hasty at every moment and not realizing that your chance for punishment was already missed, but you kept continuing on with a commitment.
6:05 - I suppose not much to say here other than it might too be useful to pratice a bit of shield tilting to avoid those unnecessary pokes to your shield.
6:26 - This tends to happen a lot in the falco vs MK match-up, and I am not sure what is the best route. You get a CG on MK, but what is the best way to end it. Ideally, your reward offstage is minimal unless you go for another Dair attempt to KO MK, rarely happens. So, another idea to consider might be to end the CG with a spike onstage. This forces MK into a tech position which makes his options easier to cover. So, you could potentially get another grab out of it too or fsmash and still get MK offstage in the end.
6:40 - lol I know I said about the drop Bair from top platform, but that was a good punish on his tornado from up there.
6:51 - Whiff FH Bair, 2nd jump laser. MK is now underneath you and you have no jump. Ouch. Ended with you nearly dead.
7:07 - I noticed you were retreating to that top platform quite a lot that entire match. Habit forming in the middle of a match?
After this stock loss, I noticed you went super gung-oh on your return stock. Rushing into many things at the first part of that stock.
8:47 - There you go again with that SH double laser when MK is on the top platform in a position where he is in a lot of lag.
~9:30+ You must have thrown out about a dozen or more Usmashes, and Fsmashes when MK was near the ledge. In the end, a good old patient Ftilt gets the finishing blow :D

Probably a cumbersome critique, but I am finding that analyzing every second of a situation tends to be the best way to critique. See the small stuff that leads to the general course of the match.

Edit: Overall, I think you might simply need to get better at recognizing when you can get away with a punish, and when its better to simply delay and have your presence work for you. Oh, I recall you saying you had an issue with Snake as well when it came to being a stock behind as your focus or something got distracted. Seems it may have carried over to falco too lol
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
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Xeylode, i assume? thanks for the detailed critique. you pointed out a pretty large number of flaws. more than anything, i need to sit back more, and recover from above a little slower. i'll take all of those things into account. cheers.
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
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I wanted to ages ago, but they didn't have premium memberships for a while, then this whole forum transfer business.

But yes, about time lol
 

Veeonix

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Tesh... Don't jump off stage with Falco. No gimp is worth dropping stocks at 20%. Trust me, it happens pretty often to Falcos. I've seen it. It's happened to me many times. You can Dair near the ledge without actually moving off stage to spike.

Also, your Illusion recovery is way too early, and not canceled, this leaves you wide open. When you are attacked or thrown off stage again immediately, you are in the same problem you were a second before, but with higher damage.

Awesome use of items with Falco, give ya props for that. Improve your chaingrab options. That damage is REALLY nice. Good spacing and mixups. More Falcos should watch your performance for examples of spacing and Jab use.

Also, your lasers need work.

That is all.
 

Tesh

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im actually really bad at cancelling it, sometimes it just happens and it might have something to do with interference, but I'd like to learn how, i know cancelling it at the end can boost recovery alot.

is there some trick to getting the spike on stage with falco? i always run off and double jump spike over the ledge but I can't seem to do it properly on stage. if i immediately short hop after the grab im too far away, but dashing after them seems too slow, as does jumping and then landing on them with the spike (though this would be ideal if it works too) im not interested in cging people off the ledge but id love to find out how to maximize the damage on stage

not quite related, but does anyone know what percent ftilt stops locking at? it seems i push people too far away after like 3 max, but I'm just wondering if i get someone up against a wall or something.
 
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I think the repeated Ftilt is not a thing with Falco. It has to be super decayed and without a wall to prevent them from backing up, you will not chain any hits.

Anyway, the best opportunities from a chaingrab has always been walk/dash chaingrabs into dash -> SH Dair. This works on every character until a certain percentage. It is worth it to learn how to chaingrab by boost pivot grabbing to maintain max damage and get closer to the ledge. Even if you don't want to get them there, getting a free KO on someone who either screwed up the SDI on the spike is worth it. Its the best option on characters Falco cannot chaingrab as it leaves them on the ground and possible for a regrab because you can land on either their left or right side.

Oh, and best damage and opportunity for follow-up is ending with the spike where it puts them near the ledge. It blocks there roll away allowing you get to close the distance with a move or cover their other options like get-up or stand or roll towards you.

I think using Falco offstage is completely fine depending upon the character and the opportunity. I dunno, you just have to be good at timing your actions and moves to make sure you don't get screwed over. There are so many opportunities that Falco can get easy KOs if he simply goes out there to attack a character in recovery. The notable exceptions IMO is MK. But, I think you could mess with Marth just easily. Simple stuff like grabbing the ledge from him at the right time is great. But in the end, I am not certain if the risk is worth it. Win the match from onstage or attempt to take your risks and bet on your timing and skill at messing with a characters recovery.
 

Veeonix

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I'm not sure I understand that question...

Also, Falco (as with all characters) can dash, fast-fall, pivot ledgegrab, gaining invincibility frames almost instantly without ever "jumping" or being "off-stage." Ledge pressure is fine from time to time. But that is different than chasing others offstage. Dropping an early stock against an opponent stinks. If the opponents are good at camping and running, it is SOOOOOOO hard to get a solid kill. Especially if you have to approach or the time is against you.Without spikes or hard reads, Falco's Kill average is somewhere around 150-170 or so, rivaling Sonic. Which kinda stinks, but that is when a solid U-Tilt/F-Tilt can kill. A Fresh B-Air can kill solid at 140, good positioning, depending on weight class... His smashes can kill, but sometimes aren't easy to land.

Canceling Illusion is a matter of timing, 3 possible frames to cancel it on (not sure which). Each gives 3 different distances.

Also, chaingrab into Gatling is devastating on damage. Can lead to guaranteed 60 on many characters. If you aren't a big risk taker on trying to get a follow up off a D-air, its not a bad option.
 
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@Tesh: Are you talking about using it from a jab lock sort of thing? Otherwise, the best I know of is decay to around 7-9 uses and use against a wall. From my vague recall from testing it so long ago was it worked at like the 7th ftilt against ganon on a wall. The problem is making sure i it is decayed enough they don't bounce off the wall.

@Veeonix: lol I overuse Bair so much it never gets a KO until much later.
 

Tesh

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yea im trying to jab lock out of it. when people are on platforms, it looks like most falcos opt for nair pokes, but i prefer to uair/bair into jab lock but lasers are so laggy i cant follow up as strong as id like.
 

1PokeMastr

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yea im trying to jab lock out of it. when people are on platforms, it looks like most falcos opt for nair pokes, but i prefer to uair/bair into jab lock but lasers are so laggy i cant follow up as strong as id like.

With a laser lock, depending on your positioning, you can follow up with a gatling combo/ dash attack/ phantasm/ charged bdacus/ fsmash.
 

Tesh

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yea, but how much damage does a laser lock across the stage get you?

no way its more than 3 ftilts at 8-9 damage each then i'd be close enough to dair-upsmash/uair which is my favorite thing about falco ever
 

teluoborg

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Laser lock works at any %. Ftilt lock stops working at what ? 30-40% ?

Also with a forced platform fall off you don't need laser/Ftilt to get a free Fsmash.
 

1PokeMastr

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yea, but how much damage does a laser lock across the stage get you?

no way its more than 3 ftilts at 8-9 damage each then i'd be close enough to dair-upsmash/uair which is my favorite thing about falco ever
Across the entire stage.. 30% or more.

You can't SDi the lasers, but you can SDi F-Tilt.
 

Tesh

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Yea at high percents I'll take the lasers I guess to refresh kill options and whatnot, but at low percents I don't see how lasers-side b will be more punishing than 2-3 ftilts and then dair to dair to tech chase or something.
 

1PokeMastr

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Dair -> Dair isn't guaranteed, but your argument for the F-Tilts is valid.

An option is an option.
 

Tesh

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Dair to something is pretty much guaranteed right?

Am I supposed to hit them with side B after the lasers or just use to to get close enough to regrab/jab. I can't ever seem to get there before they stand up.
 

1PokeMastr

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Hit them with side b after the lasers, also, from the F-Tilt lock, you can go into a laser lock.. which is pretty useful.

And with SDi.. only 1 F-Tilt will hit.
 

Tesh

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I was getting ready to ask that, I as hoping i could do an ftilt then laser, sounds perfect. Maybe I can get a backwards ftilt and still get 2 or 3.
 

Veeonix

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There is a ridiculous hard 0-death on light weights on Smashville. It's incredibly situational though... You chaingrab to about 30-40, (I forget) footstool instead of spiking off the D-throw, off the footstool jump, platform cancel, fall through the platform with a fast-fall b-reversal into silent lazer. If done correctly, you will pivot the length of the stage with them in the lazer lock. At the full distance after the last lazer, you can do a B-Dacus (Charged) to kill lightweights... pending they don't DI to live...

Situational as hell, hard to do. I prefer safe/guaranteed options. I'd go laser lock to build damage and let the combo end there.
 

L3G1T

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I've been practicing the past couple months and feel that another critique could be helpful at this point. (I apologize if this is frowned upon by the community. Still relatively new here.) Unfortunately I don't have much footage, as the only person locally (that I know of, where are those Southern Nevada smashers?) that plays competitive Smash is MRM4N, and he's not into singles that much. Oh well, there's still some obvious flaws that I'd love to have pointed out.

I also feel like it's worth mentioning that when I play now, I picture those earlier critiques in my head, so it seems to have really helped to hear what a couple of you had to say. Once again, I appreciate it.

Alright, well here's my aggressive Falco:
-MM L3G1T (Falco) Vs. MRM4N (Marth)
-Friendlies Set L3G1T (Falco) Vs. MRM4N (Marth) <- This is a bit outdated since it was before my optic nerve surgery, but still perfectly acceptable footage. I had trouble seeing grenades at the time. Yeah, yeah, no johns. :p
 
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lol First couple of minutes. SideB -> cancel on ledge -> 2nd jump to stage.

I did notice a couple of times that you tried getting on stage after sideB to the ledge. Don't forget you preserve phantasm ending lag when you hit the ledge the next time you touch the ground on stage.
 

1PokeMastr

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Money Match.

0:43 - You phantasm -> dash back SHDL, if Marth didn't tech roll, you could have been punished. Dash in -> SHDL is not the best thing to do since you commit to both lasers, while putting yourself in a position to be punished, I do the same thing at times without realing it.

You use too much phantasm/ not enough lasers. Try using SHL more.

1:33 - You got lucky and survived the 0-Death. NEVER approach when you're at 0 unless you force Marth to damage you with something that isn't grab. I play Marth too and would have noticed the throw did 3%, meaning Marth can do 3 F-Throws before he can spike you, meaing the 0-Death can start from the middle of BF.

Don't fish for the kill, be patient and it will come to you.

Shield after Jab x2, you'll always PS the Up B, it's also why you don't Jab 1 -> shield since you'll be Up B'd before you can block.

There's more, but I'm lazy.

Heads up - Marth can tipper Fsmash Falco if Falco hits Marth's shield with Usmash.
 

L3G1T

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lol First couple of minutes. SideB -> cancel on ledge -> 2nd jump to stage.

I did notice a couple of times that you tried getting on stage after sideB to the ledge. Don't forget you preserve phantasm ending lag when you hit the ledge the next time you touch the ground on stage.
Thanks for the reminder. Yeah it's a shame you maintain that lag; it takes some of the usefulness out of using it off the ledge. :|

1PokeMastr said:
You use too much phantasm/ not enough lasers. Try using SHL more.
I'll keep that in mind. I kinda spammed it more than normal on the money match. :p

1PokeMastr said:
There's more, but I'm lazy.
Totally understand, haha. Well I'd presume it'd be something obvious, such as mixing up recoveries and working on not making tech errors, like that full hop laser mistake at the beginning. Though I think you capitalized on what I needed, so thanks.

1PokeMastr said:
Heads up - Marth can tipper Fsmash Falco if Falco hits Marth's shield with Usmash.
Didn't know that; This is really useful information, thanks. It especially helps with my aggro play style.
 

teluoborg

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You should really respect Snake's Utilt more.

I'l watch more but that's what I get from the first match, that and the fact that you should try to not get hit that much in early percents.
 

Cassius.

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what do you guys think? I'm thinking of switching to Falco (and some top tier friends) from Bowser. obviously a good move, but I'd like some opinions on what I should change.

I don't practice this game a lot anymore. I play Marvel much more frequently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rp2UGa9FoM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjTDtnzOIEg

these are from the most recent tournament I entered from earlier this month.

My Falco needs some work but my bowser is already up top, haha
 

L3G1T

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what do you guys think? I'm thinking of switching to Falco (and some top tier friends) from Bowser. obviously a good move, but I'd like some opinions on what I should change.

I don't practice this game a lot anymore. I play Marvel much more frequently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rp2UGa9FoM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjTDtnzOIEg

these are from the most recent tournament I entered from earlier this month.

My Falco needs some work but my bowser is already up top, haha
1) First off, I'd say in general your SHDL could use some work. I noticed especially in that match against Sonic that both lasers were too high. Practice in training mode using SHDL against Kirby or Squirtle (or another small character) and try to get the 2nd laser to hit them. That way, it's even easier during real matches against larger characters; or if you're against a small character, lasers shouldn't be an issue. I feel like you could use a few more IAPs for spacing as well.

2) There were quite a few smash attacks, notably Fsmash and to a lesser extent, Usmash, before your opponents were in kill percent. Unless you're punishing with a hard read, this isn't necessary, as it's staling your kill moves before you need them. (Use Dair to punish; it does just as much damage anyways.)

3) Recoveries were getting a bit obvious, if I were you I'd work on phantasm cancelling to trick your opponent into reading the full phantasm, perhaps even giving you the opportunity to punish. Recovering on the ledge more often would be advisable, as Falco has a more options on the ledge than he does either using Firebird or Phantasm back onto the stage. As a simple example, you can grab the ledge, jump up, and phantasm back onto the ledge. Try to find new ways to mix it up, it's fun. :)

4) Could use some more jabs. In addition, you were getting punished after using the full jab combo. It's useful to mix up your game, but you should stick to using jab cancel much more often. Jab -> Jab -> Ftilt, Jab -> Jab -> Grab, etc.

5) RAR Bair is a decent kill option, as it comes out faster than Smash attacks and isn't as punishable. I was worried about those Fsmashes and Usmashes on that Meta Knight towards the end, but he ran right into them. :D Just keep in mind that usually won't work unless you can get a hard read.

6) In mid percents, try to buffer a jab out of Dthrow. Free percent, it isn't easy to punish, and can even lead to a laser lock if your opponent misses the tech. (Which happens more than it should since it's pretty tough to react to.) Gatling combo might be something to throw in more as well, especially if your opponent has a tendency to shield a dash attack and instantly drop the shield to punish. Although more useful at low percents, Gatling combo can score some kills because opponents may only expect the dash attack.

Overall I really like your Falco and your CQC game. Just keep working on mixing it up and don't always go for the kill move at high percentages.

That's my 2 cents, hopefully it'll help you improve your Falco. Good luck!
 

Cassius.

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I appreciate the input. Like I said I rarely practice this game, so my SHDL was off most likely because I didn't really play prior to those matches (I was busy on Marvel when I was at Dustbowl, I really didn't play as much Brawl as I thought I would.)

I will keep everything in mind though, thanks.
 

kismet2

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6pdZjuZgwU Big D(Falco) vs Firefly(Metaknight)

Good set. I don't think Big D is looking for critique but just figured I'd post it in here since I have a few things I want to share.

1:50-He Dthrows but doesn't follow up. Dair isn't guaranteed at that point but jab1/2/ftilt still connects. Going for a double jab loop isn't a bad idea if you're looking to bait a Shuttle loop or looking for extra damage.
2:36-Uses Dair for momentum cancelling. When playing against a Metaknight, the safest option in a situation like this would be Bair. Why? Not sure if many people know but Falco Bair has better hitbox positioning. Looks like this-->"^" except where either side(depending which way you face when you Bair) of the character in those quotes is angled up a bit higher. It beats out aerial Shuttle loop more often whereas Dair will trade if not beating said Shuttle Loop. Dair's hitbox is just thinner and doesn't cover as much.
8:00-Same thing as I said above. Although from the angle Shuttle Loop comes from, it seemed like Bair would've at least traded at best. So maybe an aerial isn't the best option in this scenario. Considering the trade, maybe cancelling phantasm to get away would've been better.
11:40-The best answer for this is definitely Nair. Whether the Metaknight will glide attack or not, Nair will clank with the first hit then continue until the animation ends.
12:17-I'm gonna assume that D tries to SDI out and is attempting to use Dair to break the tornado. Nair is way better for this since it covers almost your entire body with two rotating circles(see hitboxes).
12:31-In this Big D double jabs and leads into shield to see what Firefly does. This was really smart for him to see what his opponent would've done and because of that he was able to bait the Shuttle Loop. Though after this he doesn't convert on it and waits to see what Firefly is going to do. If you bait Metaknight's Shuttle Loop like that there's nothing wrong with using Nair since it goes through anyway.

Welp, that's it. ^_^ Just thought I'd share that for those that didn't know and I certainly had a good time watching that set. Good stuff, D.
 

kismet2

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
816
Location
Columbus, GA
Hate to double post but I have a batch of videos that I'd like to get critiqued. You don't have to watch it all if you don't want to, but I'd appreciate it. ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VohBl-ZbsRU WF vs Reflex(Wario)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLTPF69b4_I GF1 vs Reflex(Wario)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olXDoBTIlas GF2 vs Reflex(Wario)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAKNpGZgrdk vs DRN(Zero Suit Samus, Metaknight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il6sfYPRofY WF vs ESAM(Pikachu)

EDIT: Added WF vs Reflex and took off a few videos. I could mostly use critique for WF Reflex and ESAM aside from me allowing myself to get grabbed on FD game 2 vs ESAM.
 
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