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Balanced Brawl Version 2 Release

A2ZOMG

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
12,542
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RPV, California
NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
Luck: Random number generator gave me a 9. Uhm, yay I guess?

Getting hard move down: WOOT, I LANDED A FALCON KNEE/FALCON PAWNCH/WARLOCK PAWNCH etc.!
I thought I would just point out...

landing a Knee is much easier than landing Judgement. I mean the move, not the 9 alone.

And landing a Knee is difficult...do you get me? Landing Judgement deliberately is a ****ing pain in the ***.

I really don't get how UTD Zac makes it look so easy...he's just an amazing player really. I wish I could read mistakes to the godly extent he does.
 
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FinalDoomGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
49
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Scotland.
Did I ever say you guys don't care about balance?

Christ sake, kneejerk reactions. Grow up.

I don't know why I missed Ampharo's post. I still disagree a bit on some points, but I can totally see where you guys are coming from. Pretty enlightening. :D
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
Okay, so in addition to wrapping up PAL stuff, I'm looking into some exciting new stage stuff that basically serves as a bug fix to the Rumble Falls + Pokemon Trainer issues. Long story short, here are a few values internal to the game by default:

Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 scrolling rate: .91
Luigi's Mansion respawn time: 20 seconds (1200 frames), begins counting when last section FINISHES crumbling (not just the pillar taking the last hit)
Green Greens block falling frequency: 30 (lower means blocks fall more often)

To be consistent with the current Bbrawl, I set them to these values:

Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 scrolling rate: .455
Luigi's Mansion respawn time: 40 seconds (2400 frames)
Green Greens block falling frequency: 60

These values are highly malleable and no longer affect anything else on the stage. If anyone has anything to say about them, now would be an excellent time to speak.

The first two (Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 and Luigi's Mansion) affect basically nothing from the current Bbrawl release except making the stages animate more smoothly by being more focused changes. Green Greens is a bit trickier though. The original design idea was to make the blocks replenish more slowly so camping the far platforms could be more realistically countered by block destruction strategies. Combine that with our special anti-ledgestalling code, and there really is nothing wrong with Green Greens. However, with our previously limited tools, we just set the whole stage to animate at 2/3 speed which was about as slow as we could make it without making the wind just too stupid. The single parameter I'm changing now is how often blocks fall, and I have set it to 60 (instead of 45, which would actually represent 2/3) because it's more in-line with the original intent and further now the blocks fall at normal speed once they spawn so this kinda compensates for that. I could try to find the value that affects how fast blocks fall and change that as well, but I'm not sure that would actually be making the stage better so much as mimicing current behavior. I'd really like to hear some thoughts in particular about play on Green Greens and experiences with the timing of the blocks both in their spawn frequency and in their fall rate.

No, we still can't edit stage hazard hitbox data. Don't ask me to make the bomb blocks less powerful because, regardless of whether it's a good idea (personally, I'd probably do it!), I can't make it happen. If you or someone you know can, of course refer them to me immediately.

No, this isn't constituting any sort of "new release". We're just planning on slipping in some stage polishing to go alongside a PAL release; we're definitely not changing any characters in any way. Thinkaman also proposed we do some improving to Spear Pillar to make the breaking floor a little less dumb; I'll keep you guys posted on how that works out.

Now off to see if I can figure out anything about how PictoChat works...
 

UTDZac

▲▲▲▲▲
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
6,646
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Judgment Count: 856
Just wanted to say, I'm loving the changes... and the website, amazing!

It's summer time, I plan to host 2 tournaments a month. I want to alternate between BBrawl and vBrawl. BBrawl looks legit, clean, awesome! No more planking? You guys have out-done yourselves =)
 

Steeler

Smash Hero
Joined
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Wichita
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awesome, zac. i'll see if i can get kansas to come down for a few of those tourneys. :)
 

Hunch

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
24
Superb job Amazing Ampharos, Thinkaman, and everyone else who assisted in making this project what it is! I heard about this mod shortly after version 2 was released, and it was exactly what I was looking for. After introducing it to the circles I play in it quickly became the new standard. I've always enjoyed choosing Random, but in vBrawl that came with the risks of either getting a terrible MU against someone's main or giving me a floor-wiping character *coughMK* against the less-skilled members of my circle. Now I don't have to worry about those things at all. All in all I was really impressed. Keep up the good work!

-Also, woohoo first post!
 

Lino971

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
11
O
The first two (Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 and Luigi's Mansion) affect basically nothing from the current Bbrawl release except making the stages animate more smoothly by being more focused changes. Green Greens is a bit trickier though. The original design idea was to make the blocks replenish more slowly so camping the far platforms could be more realistically countered by block destruction strategies. Combine that with our special anti-ledgestalling code, and there really is nothing wrong with Green Greens. However, with our previously limited tools, we just set the whole stage to animate at 2/3 speed which was about as slow as we could make it without making the wind just too stupid. The single parameter I'm changing now is how often blocks fall, and I have set it to 60 (instead of 45, which would actually represent 2/3) because it's more in-line with the original intent and further now the blocks fall at normal speed once they spawn so this kinda compensates for that. I could try to find the value that affects how fast blocks fall and change that as well, but I'm not sure that would actually be making the stage better so much as mimicing current behavior. I'd really like to hear some thoughts in particular about play on Green Greens and experiences with the timing of the blocks both in their spawn frequency and in their fall rate.
The changes on the Luigi's Mansion and Mushroomy Kingdom are exactly what should have been done. It'll make Luigi's Mansion viable and more fun IMO (I was playing with the Brawl+ code who kept the mansion destroyed but I always felt it was too much like Battlefield or Final Destination for such a great stage..)
Also for Green Greens I thought of someting but don't if this would even be possible. Something that would completly change how the bloc are actually behaving. Here it is:
Make the blocks not spawn at start for 1~2 minutes and after this make them spawn very fast until the maximum amount of blocks is reached then repeat.
That's it, what do think of this?
Anyway Amazing Ampharos and Thinkaman you rock ! You two are working hard on this project and I will always support everyone that intend to balance a game where there isn't much ^^
 

Thinkaman

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<3 Texas, as usual.

It's weird living in Paducah, because it's eerily similar to Austin, but lame. :(

Anyhow, I got a Wii back (two!) so as soon as I find some A/V cables I'm gonna get to work and see if I can help the stage parameter research and get the PAL version out.
 

ぱみゅ

❤ ~
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Green Greens always seems legit for me, being the horizontal blastzone the only real issue there, imo.
Changing the block fall rate doesn't solve the real problem with the overpowered explotions, which is the thing most people care about, but at least it helps to make them happen less often.
 

Scabe

Successful Businessman
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
3,510
Location
Canberra, Australia
The site looks good and the changes are amazing. I really want to get my hand on this.

Question: Does BBrawl have more than 200 lines of code or whatever, I ask because I use Configurable USB Loader.
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
Bbrawl is current at 400-something lines of code. It will not being going under 255 in the forseeable future; doing that would require us to replace fighter.pac properly, including finding some way to expand the number of lines it can hold, which would be fairly tough.
 

FinalDoomGuy

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
49
Location
Scotland.
So you NEED to use Riivoulution?

If it's a stupid question, sorry, I'm not particularly versed in this softmod malarkey.
 

Big O

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The site looks good and the changes are amazing. I really want to get my hand on this.

Question: Does BBrawl have more than 200 lines of code or whatever, I ask because I use Configurable USB Loader.
I'm pretty sure configurable usb loader has the new gecko os. I've played BBrawl just fine on my usb hdd with configurable usb loader, so I don't think that will be a problem (unless you are PAL and there is some weird PAL issue I'm not aware of).
 
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
51
Can someone please help me out??

I downloaded the Balanced Brawl file, and when I put the .gct code in the codes folder, and load up gecko through the homebrew channel, it says error to many codes. What I did was drag the code from the download into my code folder, and it says error. Am I doing something wrong?
 

Lino971

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
11
Can someone please help me out??

I downloaded the Balanced Brawl file, and when I put the .gct code in the codes folder, and load up gecko through the homebrew channel, it says error to many codes. What I did was drag the code from the download into my code folder, and it says error. Am I doing something wrong?
What version of gecko you use? Maybe you should upgrade
 

Thinkaman

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Yay, I hope a PAL version does come out.
Soon.

Can someone please help me out??

I downloaded the Balanced Brawl file, and when I put the .gct code in the codes folder, and load up gecko through the homebrew channel, it says error to many codes. What I did was drag the code from the download into my code folder, and it says error. Am I doing something wrong?
IM me or pop into chat, we'll get you straightened out.
 

Thinkaman

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We don't offer support for USB loaders. However, most loaders can load .gct files like BBrawl uses--it's definitely possible and lots of people have already done it.
 

Thinkaman

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PAL VERSION LIVE!

So, final PAL issue: Currently PAL cannot have a custom SSS. However, the option does exist to replace an existing stage with Wi-Fi Waiting Room.

We can replace Hanenbow or Mario Bros, those seem like the most logical choices. We can also replace neither and leave Wi-Fi out.

Finally, if we do replace something with Wi-Fi, we can update the menu in all languages or just english. Replacing the files for other languages will make the file size of the download significantly bigger, maybe 95 MB instead of 75 MB. (It's also kinda annoying to do, but not a big deal.)

Thoughts?
 

Scabe

Successful Businessman
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Mar 18, 2009
Messages
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Canberra, Australia
Oh sweet PAL, going to give this a shot with my USB loader v56 if I installed it right. Hope it works. What's custom SSS?
 

Thinkaman

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Custom Stage Select Screen. Although it's a wonderful bit of polish, it's not fundamental--PAL users aren't missing out on much in the end.
 

dansal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
96
Finally!
Now when people say "Is the PAL version out yet"
I can say "Yes! It is."
 

DSP

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
115
Location
South Germany
PAL VERSION LIVE!

So, final PAL issue: Currently PAL cannot have a custom SSS. However, the option does exist to replace an existing stage with Wi-Fi Waiting Room.

We can replace Hanenbow or Mario Bros, those seem like the most logical choices. We can also replace neither and leave Wi-Fi out.

Finally, if we do replace something with Wi-Fi, we can update the menu in all languages or just english. Replacing the files for other languages will make the file size of the download significantly bigger, maybe 95 MB instead of 75 MB. (It's also kinda annoying to do, but not a big deal.)

Thoughts?
YESZ!
I love you and whoever coded this probably too. FINALLY.
Well, I don't think we really need a SSS. I'll just putyour recommended stages into Random Stage Selection choices in there anyway and let the game decide.
Wi-Fi waiting room would be kinda nice, but not fundamental. If you put it in, eh, both of those stages you mention are ********...
Does the menu upgrade mean that you'll see the icon for Wi-Fi Waiting room only in English if you guys only do it in English, or does it only replace words? Because if it's only words, eh, you have to understand English anyway to navigate SWF and your homepage, don't bother.
Actually, if it's the icon too, I'm sure we can remember that this stage is the Wi-Fi-Room too. We're not in the position to claim stuff because HOLY ***** FINALLY IT'S AVAILABLE.
 

Mit

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
947
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Southeast Michigan
I got it working with USB Loader GX using the old double GCT method. I believe USB Loader still uses some old Gecko version to load codes, so you can't have more than 256 lines.

The double GCT method loads a small code file, that activates when the game boots. The codes in turn load codes from another, larger file, elsewhere on the SD card, and give you everything you need.

If you google search Smashboards for the "double gct method" you'll find information on it. I believe it's considered an old method now, but hey, an old method for an old Ocarina version :p


EDIT: here it is: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7025153&postcount=197 You'll have to make your own code file for this method using Code Manager, though. It's all quite simple.
 
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