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The ROB Matchup Thread

Mister Eric

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I suppose I haven't ran into such a wrath that you have to consider FD an auto loss, lol. As for Japes, get a good % lead, and fly to the top and dair. It consumes about 11 - 14 seconds of time, and do that for a bit and time him out ^_^ they might get mad, but I advanced in bracket. I like to condition players not to take me janky places
 

Silhouette

Smash Lord
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NOBODY can outcam ROB because we can instantly throw out reflector on landing after we auto cancel our laser.

C'mon guys! you should know this stuff by now.. :psycho:

...

:hunger:
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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Well I have never had too much trouble in FD, I usually play patient enough, until I can successfully punish phantasm and then I get the lead and plank.
 

sneakytako

Smash Lord
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Punishing phantasm is a lot easier when you're on the ground. If he does a full phantasm on the ground, you can punish it OoS with F-tilt, but you have to space it right. If he does a fake phantasm, you can make him eat a Fsmash.

Srsly crouching helps you sit on the ground AND it lets you recover faster from lasers. Lasers create more openings when they hit you in the air.
 

Tin Man

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I'm sorry this took long AGAIN LOL, I know that the discussion has moved on to Falco,but I'm making this anyways haha. Anyways, here are my 2 cents on the Diddy Matchup.

Game Start:

Like always, use a projectile. Predict where Diddy will be when he tries to get his bananas out (he'll prolly turn around an jump and then whip em out). Using a Gyro would be just for stage control, u wouldn't be close enough to hit him. Whether you wanna go for stage control or distrupt his bana game is up to you, they are both good start up options.

Long Range:

Diddy needs a lot of pressure kept on him. Staying at long range simply allows him to start generating bananas and set up his banana game which is very very bad. The only thing that can hit him at this range is a laser. Once you use ur laser, and distrupt his game, approach him. Middle range is a pretty nice place to be (explanation below). You can also toss out ur gyro if he has his bananas all set to go. With the gyro out, he can't throw bananas from the ground because they will just hit the gyro, and push it back. It acts like a wall for you, allowing you to continuously laser. He will have to jump then throw. This is where you short hop and then catch it when it lands beneath you, and now you have the stage control, yet you have to get closer for it to be any effective.

Middle Range:

A very crucial area in this match-up. Diddy's Bananas can hit you, ur uncharged gyro can hit him. At this range be careful when Diddy is holding a banana. If you don't have a gyro out, then you wont have time to use it. using a laser can help if he has thrown the banana as the hitbox on ur face can stop it from harming you, or you can disrupt his throw animation. If he shield's the laser tho, he can glide toss the banana at you, and more than often it will hit you, the only thing you can do is shield and hope it comes out in time to block the banana. I suggest retreating while throwing out a projectile in this situation (that would be short op backward and then fire away). Even if it means going off stage, you will have to against Diddy in this situation because Bananas are just too good. If your Gyro is out, he can't throw bananas from the ground, they will only get blocked, so he will prolly jump to throw it. Make sure if he does hit your Gyro, that it doesn't fall offstage. If it does, you will need to be aggressive as you have just lost your shield. This means catching the banana that just hit the gyro in a manner that is safe so that you will not get punished by another banana or Diddy himself. These are all the defensive tactics we have, and the point of these tactics are to either stop Diddy's banana game or take control of it. With these options, you should be able to take control of the banana game or at least avoid it. With a banana in your hand, its Diddy's 1 projectile vs your 3. Don't throw back the banana immediately as he will be trained to catch it. Us your other projectiles instead. Mix it up also, you can throw the banana if you think he isn't expecting it. When tossing the banana, make sure you glide toss it towards the Diddy. You have quite a few options from here. You can Fsmash which is the best killing option with a banana in hand, you can Dsmash, which is nice, and might get him if he drops his shield expecting something else, or you can grab then throw away, and pick up banana and repeat. Only camp Diddy when you have a banana in hand, otherwise, your camping lets him setup. You also can't camp him forever, you have to eventually use one of these glide toss options to keep the pressure off him. He still has one Banana to use at his disposal after all. The ultimate goal is to get both Banana's off of Diddy, so that you are 4 projectiles to his 0. this should guarantee Diddy being off stage, and should also make killing him several times easier.

Close Range:

When close to Diddy, use Ftilts to get him away. Be careful if he has a banana as the ending lag n Ftilt is long enough to get punished. If he s going for a banana, Ftilt is a good way for you to attack him while covering the area where the banana is. If Diddy is holding a banana, your to close to retreat, so you would have to take aggressive action on him. attempt to predict when he will throw the banana and catch it. Rush him and grab, then toss him. Predict the banana toss, then shield it, and either Ftilf his approach or catch the banana or shield grab his dash attack. If he is shielding, and ur uber close, jab his shield, or gab him. Beware of the glide toss down when approaching Diddy from a close range however. Its better to take action on a Diddy when he is holding a banana in close range before he can take action. Its a mind game also, and ideally you wanna get him off stage or at least off the ground. Being in close range against Diddy isn't bad though. He doesn't have broken tilts, or a stupid high priority jab haha.

Above the opponent:

This is where Diddy throws banana's up at you while you are recovering with ur upB, making them hard to catch/stop. Either that or you are just trying to come back on stage. You must land far enough way as to not get hit by Diddy's bananas Go for a platform. Its one of the safest areas to land. that or the ledge (if ur on FD =_=). Diddy wont chase you himself in the air, so just watch the Banana's he throws at you, if ur not in ur upB stance, you can try air dodging or z catching them (or w/e ur grab button is). This helps get momentum when ur back on stage, but Diddy would have 2 banana's out so you will still have to land somewhere safe.

Recovering:

Some Diddy's will chase you with a spike/Fair in an attempt to kill you. Go for the edge, and use Nairs if Diddy is coming at you. Fair and Uair are also good. Going above the stage is good if there are platforms to land on, otherwise go for the edge and then continue from there. From the edge, you can use all of the standard ledge options/mixups to make your way back on stage.

Edge Guarding:

When holding an item, and Diddy is recovering from below, try to throw the item down, in an attempt to hit him out of his upB. Otherwise, drop down and try to Fair him out of his upB. A Diddy that is high above the stage while recovering is hard to stop because he gets his side B back every time you hit him. You will stack damage on him, but more than likely wont kill him. Don't use projectiles vs Diddy when stopping his recovery, go there and intercept him (unless you just hit him away, in that case use ur laser then chase him down). When holding a banana and he is on the ledge, don't drop them close to the edge, unless u are predicting that he will double jump and catch the banana while your ready to punish him (with a Nair or something). Bairs will also work in an attempt to stop him from coming back on stage. If he has a Banana in hand while he is on the edge, use a gyro and place it right on the edge in order to negate plenty of his options. Nair right when he is about to run out of invincibility frames as the gyro will hit him, and if he decides to roll/rump/something from the edge, he may end up getting hit.

If Diddy grabs ur gyro:

You will always have your laser no matter what happens. You can laser the Diddy in an attempt to stop him while he throws the gyro, or to stop the gyro with the hit box on your face, but then if he shield it, ur face will just eat ur own gyro. Shield the gyro, or sidestep it (make sure it goes off stage) or something. Get rid of it essentially, that way, u get it back :).

Stages

Ban FD, No brainier lol. Jungle japes is a very good CP vs Diddy. Better than Rainbow cruise, and frigate, imo. Brinstar is also really good (just make sure the Diddy player doesn't have a pocket Snake/MK haha. I prefer Smashville over Battlefeild for neutrals because of the platform going off the stage, which helps you when off stage, and if bananas land on the platform, they get carried away. They will strike PS1 (good for us cause of stage changes and crappy ledge for them), Yoshi's, and Lylat more than often anyways, but they also work well for us.

55-45 adv for ROB. ROB are effective at all ranges, and can gimp the guy, and can take control vs him pretty well, and has the tools to stop his banana game.

thats all for now ROBros :)
 

ccst

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Thanks for the information, Tin Man, it really helped!
 

TheMike

Smash Lord
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Punishing phantasm is a lot easier when you're on the ground. If he does a full phantasm on the ground, you can punish it OoS with F-tilt, but you have to space it right. If he does a fake phantasm, you can make him eat a Fsmash.
On the ground, I always try to shield grab or Fsmash. I usually don't use Ftilt in this case as I don't think it is as good as Fsmash or some of ROB's throws like F/B/Dthrow. And ROB can also punish the phantasm well in the air. Nair works when you are in the middle of the stage, and Bair when it is used after you get out of the ledge. Falco will not be able to recover if you Bair him correctly.

Edit: Laser is pretty good when the opponent is far from the stage. Just aim it correctly. And the Gyro is useful in most cases. I always use it weakly charged when Falco is about to grab the ledge.
 

T0MMY

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Srsly crouching helps you sit on the ground AND it lets you recover faster from lasers. Lasers create more openings when they hit you in the air.
At sneaky's place this morning I demonstrated why this strategy doesn't work.
I then went on to demonstrate how the Firebird is the best recovery in the game. Unpunishable.

Also, I 3-stocked Arty's Falco in a MM, so I guess I'm starting to finally learn this matchup. Mr. Eric gave me some really good advice. When Falco leads into a Grab with a Jab, you can D-Smash between the Jab and Grab. He said it worked at lower percentages, but I SDI'd down and got it to work at 100%
 

Zwarm

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At sneaky's place this morning I demonstrated why this strategy doesn't work.
I then went on to demonstrate how the Firebird is the best recovery in the game. Unpunishable.

Also, I 3-stocked Arty's Falco in a MM, so I guess I'm starting to finally learn this matchup. Mr. Eric gave me some really good advice. When Falco leads into a Grab with a Jab, you can D-Smash between the Jab and Grab. He said it worked at lower percentages, but I SDI'd down and got it to work at 100%
This doesn't surprise me, Arty's told me that he hates the ROB MU for some reason. Heck, I can beat him sometimes (in friendlies, I haven't faced him in tournament for almost 5 months). But yea, I didn't know about the d-smash thing, I should use that against him next time I play him. XD
 

Silhouette

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When Falco leads into a Grab with a Jab, you can D-Smash between the Jab and Grab. He said it worked at lower percentages, but I SDI'd down and got it to work at 100%
Interesting, thanks.

I have alot of trouble with this MU, mainly because I get really annoyed with the whole 'PEW PEW POW' I'm never going to approach thing, then when I finally get close it a CG to 30, with his constant jab cancels and side B.

I get too annoyed and short tempered and make bad mistakes against people who out camp me and run away the whole match. It gets to a point where I quit playing it safe and take chances and get punished for it.
 

Tin Man

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I don't understand how the falco matchup works

Here are my thoughts:

He out camps ROB. Our ranges are equal, but if remaining at long range, he wins. Short hop double laser, to auto canceled reflector, and ROB is completely shafted. ROB is big and slow, but it is impossible for falco to permanently keep us out. Power sheild and approach. And be weary as ur sheild gets smaller, for a laser can poke the head if he sheild isn't there. Other options are laser when falco short hops, before he can fire his 2nd laser (as the 1st will go above head), but then, u have to recharge, and watch out for reflector. Gyro gets stopped by laser. Maybe full hop and fire, laser has a certain trajectory tho, and falco can easily take the gyro away from ROB (reflector).

Medium range, falco can auto cancel laser to dash attack, boost smash, grab, etc. All ROB can really do is predict short hop and Fair, or ftilt, both of which can be stopped by falco retreating and lasering.

Close range, falco has high priority jabs. DI away an Ftilt, but watch out for reflector followup. DI up and Fair is good. DI behind and punish with w/e, but eat more damage possible (do w/e will get u out faster). Chain grab, guaranteed 3 grabs and a spike/ gatling combo. Hello 30+ damage. All ROB can really do is try and predict a lmind game he loses due to his lack of options by trying to grqab when falco sheild, and either Dthrow to follow up, or Fthrow/Bthrow off stage to edgeguard. Attemp jabs (which can be beaten by falco's jabs) or tilts of his own, and thats about all thats viable.

Falco can and will chase ROB in the air and attempt to Uair him. Not to much to worry about tho, just don't be an idiot. When recovering, try not to get hit by lasers. Free damage for falco. Not being able to air dodge from upB is a pain in the ***. go for the edge or go high, he can't shut us down when we are recovering from above. just watch out for fully charged F smashes as you air dodge when landing, or laser to follow-up. Whe going for the edge, don't get spiked, use Nair's to stop this if he comes at u. u can stal then Nair also).

When edge guarding falco, this is the only time I believe the Gyro should be used. Use laser and gyro to help edgeguard. Falco will probably reflector as recovering to avoid damage. The phantasm must be predicted as Bair, and Nair are to slow for reaction time. Fair is easier to use, but still requires prediction, and doesn't punish as well. Dair the upB of falco, or attempt to Bair him to stage spike him.

I find that falco's kill moves are quite easily avoidable. I tend to live until 180 vs him just avoiding the kill move, but getting hit by everything else cause his ground control is that much greater than ROB's. I get most of my kills on a recovering falco, but not from gimps, but by actually killing them with the Bair/Nair after predicting. ROB's kill moves suck also.

disadvantage in my opinion. I'm saying 40-60 disavantage for us.

This is what every falco should be doing to ROB's most of their games

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mQJrgt60_E

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h9oWwfrRwE
 

Revolutionary1804

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i feel like in the first video posted above its not what every falco should be doing but what ROB shouldnt be doing. not saying that you are a bad player its just that against such a campy character i felt like you were overly aggresive. he was barely lasering that first video

2nd video is good. shows good planking.

really both of those helped a lot.
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
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it was friendlies, i dont always aim to camp the hell out of ppl and time em out in that lol. it was practice for VC7, and seeing what stuff works, etc
 

Zwarm

Smash Hero
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Plus, trying to camp Falco is not really a good idea anyway, he outcamps us, and he has a reflector. Aggro is actually a bit better in this MU I think. Get ahead in percent/stocks, then camp and plank. Trying to camp Falco to take the lead will probably never work.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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It's hell easy to powershield lasers. Just keep on patiently walking and then bair the phantasm, boom, not so hard, bair has a longlasting high priority hitbox. Also, Falco kills you later than you kill him.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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This MU is not as bad as people think, IMO it's like pretty evenish, the stage has a HUGE impact on this MU. Falco wins on FD, you win on Frigate or Lylat and so on. Learn to keep your calm in this MU and you will do better. And also, Rob will win Falco in close combat and he can't be CG'd.
 

BoTastic!

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This MU is not as bad as people think, IMO it's like pretty evenish, the stage has a HUGE impact on this MU. Falco wins on FD, you win on Frigate or Lylat and so on. Learn to keep your calm in this MU and you will do better. And also, Rob will win Falco in close combat and he can't be CG'd.
Idk about the CG.. but yea Rob has more counterpicks vs Falco. I agree that this match up is more even.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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Rob can be CG'd until 18% which I don't really count anymore. Avoid getting grabbed until 18%? Just spam your lasers while he spams his, you will both get damage and he can't CG, oh wow.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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They don't know how to escape it then. DI up and away and jump when your percentage is over 18.
 

Sudai

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It does go to 30%ish, not 18%. Just needs to be buffered. But the DAir > Jab > Regrab is semi-avoidable. SDI the jab to the ground and DSmash.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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I am pretty sure the Falco boards even mentioned about it ending at 18%, at least I have always escaped thanks to piece of info. Before I knew about it I always ended up about 30% or so.
 

Sudai

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I mean, I DI up/away and spam jump when over 18% cause it used to work for me. Doesn't anymore for some reason so I can only assume they're buffering now.
 

-LzR-

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Well my friend claims to be buffering whenever he chaingrabs me... Anyways, isn't the CG supposed to be only working when it's buffered?
 

ccst

Smash Ace
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I'm too lazy too motivate, but almost same stuff as Tin Man said. This matchup is 40-60 to us (he can among other things reflect our projectiles and camp us to death). Don't take Falco to Final Destination.
 

TheMike

Smash Lord
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I updated the Diddy matchup. The Falco one is going to be updated this weekend.
 
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