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*NEW* Official R.O.B. Boards Stage Discussion(Currently discussing Halberd) UPDATED!

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
Oh, I thought you mean't how many stage discussions, why didn't you just check the thread? >_>
 

ccst

Smash Ace
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Apr 18, 2009
Messages
632
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Switch FC
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Nice work 6Mizu! Which stage should we discuss next? I think Frigate Orpheon or Delfino Plaza.
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
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Location
England
Nice work 6Mizu! Which stage should we discuss next? I think Frigate Orpheon or Delfino Plaza.
well theres one last stage that used sits in neutral/counterpick, and that is castle seige, i think thats ******** too, but the stage legality list is like this...

Neutral

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Neutral/Counter-pick

Castle Siege
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium (Melee)

Counter-pick

Brinstar (Melee)
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes (Melee)
PictoChat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise (Melee)

Counter-pick/Banned

Distant Planet
Green Greens (Melee)
Hanenbow (for doubles matches)
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
port town aero drive
yoshi's Island (Melee)

Banned

(these don't matter)

so i propose castle seige next, everyone agree on this?
 

Spin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Messages
352
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Indianapolis
NNID
spinpai
in-between stages you can get gimps pretty easily. and the third transformation messes with horizontal recoveries cause of the tilting.
 

ccst

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
632
Location
Sweden
Switch FC
4825-3626-0014
I actually like this stage a lot. Take Meta Knight here and avoid King Dedede (don't destroy the statues here)! You can camp on the second tranformation as well. This stage gets 8,5/10 from me.
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
11,129
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England
well, i had jsut spent 2 hours on a massive write up, only to get a **** power cut, so it all shut off before i could submit, ill do it again when i get home, im busy criyng about the loss atm
 

TheMike

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
1,860
Location
Brazil
I love Castle Siege.

Ftilt is amazing on the first transformation if you angle it correctly. The ceiling is lower than usual and the platforms help us to use Usmash when trying to kill. Furthermore, the edges mess with some characters' recoveries like Lucas'. The second transformation is also really good because our laser can go through the statues, and all you need to do is camp. Finally, the irregular ground of the third transformation is good for ROB's camping game, and the tilting of the stage makes ROB's off stage game better as he can gimp easily because some character might have trouble when recoverying.

Ratio: 8.5/10.
 

Zwarm

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
6,705
Location
Mount Prospect, IL
I don't have much to say about Castle Siege, but from what I've seen, definitely bring Diddy here as a CP, plenty of ways to avoid bananas on the first transformation due to the platforms, his banana game is completely shut down by the statues on the second transformation, and the third transformation is big enough for us to outcamp him. :D
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
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Messages
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England
ok, attempt 2 at the write up, it will be shorter than the original, but none of you know how lnog the first one was, so its not so bad.

@the mike, actually, the ceiling is the same height as all of the neutral's when done from the centre of the slope a.k.a the average point.
the only legal stage with a particularly low ceiling is halberd

anyway, ill look at each separate bit in detail then bring it all together

1st transformation
+dodgy ledges

=uneven horizontal boundaries (closer on right side)

-tiny stage
-slopes messes up gyro pickup
-nowhere to escape
-blind spot easier to reach

this is the worst part of the stage for r.o.b, its not even a competition. any competent person will be on you instantly here and the only way out of this section without a massive percentage defecit is to play agressive, something i know msot r.o.b's like to avoid.
the one saving grace on this section is the fact that the dodgy ledges can mess up a few recoveries, but when i say few, i really mean a few, and only someone who dosent know about them will fall into it.
my suggestino on this stage is to get the opponent off the side of the stage, and rather than chasing, edgeguarding/techchasing from underneath the platform on the same side as the opponent, just keep them offstage, if youre confident you can gimp them do it, but the wierd ledges make stage spikes surprisingly common
but if youcan hang in on there, then you are ready to hand out some whoop-***...

2nd stage
+long flat stage
+r.o.b laser is one of the few that can go through statues
+walk off edges make b-throw a great killer
+higher ceiling means lack of momentum cancel dosent effect you so much
+you are the master of this section

=walkoff's means 'wtf' kills happen (more from you than against you though)

-gyro is less effective here

welcome home r.o.bert! you will be having lots of fun here annoying the opponent to hell. this is your stage.
previously, i'd spent a good hour trying to explain how to control the stage with words, i made a picture diagram instead...

allow me to explain...
RED: this is the area you fully control, if the opponent is standing here, they are probably jsut about to take a laser to the face, not much else needed to say, if the opponent is here, shoot them
BLUE: this is the area you have under controll providing you can aim your laser well, if they are here, they are trying to approach you and you should probably shoot them back down, you dont want them getting too high
this is where your gyro should always be on this stage, if youve drained your laser and your opponent is trying to run to you, they might not notice the gyro there (this should only be the case if youre green or blue r.o.b) its a last line of defence which also semi-prevents you being chaingrabbed into oblivion. also, its right at hand if you happen you need it incase that b-throw kill attempt didnt work
fire a fulyl charged gyro into the statue infront to have it set up like this

GREEN: these are where the opponent will probably try to approach you, this section is punishable by any of r.o.b's ariel's or the gyro that jsut so happen's to be sitting there, if they airdodge to you, either wait and grab if they are at killing percentage or short-hop f-air to knock them away again. if they attack, either shield grab or hyphen u-smash, power-shield is advised in this situation, if you mess up and they get into your 'zone' then run off to the otehr side and hope they accidentally hit the gyro
WHITE:if they're approaching from up here, unless its metaknight, pit or wario, they are very stupid for you can do anything to almost anyone else in this situation, first off make sure youre stage side if they come from up here and then either retreating b-air or up-smash, same as with green, if you mess up run to the other side. if it is any of the 3 mentioned above, dont even bother gonig for it unless its horribly mistimed, if they jump up here though you might want to try an u-air before htey fall through, but its very risky in this situation
the same set up works on the other side, the green bit is just a little lower down and its more like one big section rather than 2 smaller ones.
in other words, this is your stage, milk it up, because the statues dont last all that long.
and a side note, beware of ike's eruption on a statues, if he does it the hitbox stays out for about 4 seconds after the animation ends, so technically its unpunishable by melee hits, just laser him out of it.
sadly all good thing must come to an end, and so we move onto the next section...

3rd stage:
+see 'final destination'

=low-ish ceiling (not that bigger difference)

-tilting and a random bump in the middle
-it's lylat with no platform's

the origin of this stage was that final destination went and got very drunk and had a hot night of passion with lylat cruise, 9 months later this little lovechild came out XD
it truly is a mix of fd and lylat, with all thats good about fd and all thats bad about lylat.
camping is the bog-standard here, also this is the stage you want to be kiling on if you didnt get a b-throw/walkoff kill on the 2nd stage because its actualyl got the smallest boundaries of all 3 sections so that n-air that we've been neglecting can come into paly and get that kill. also the d-smash is once again godlike for the predictions
the 'meh' stage out of the 3

overall:
(not donig pros or cons here)
basically, its for the people that can change the way they play drastically, they need to be offensive on the first bit and instantly change to uber campy predictive on the 2nd part. most r.o.b will recognise the fd-ness in the 3rd part and actually do best there, but knowing how to play this stage makes it pretty amazing for r.o.b

who to take here:
link
samus
toon link
pit (unless he knows the stage well)
ness
lucas
falco (possibly, he goes through statues **** fast)
ganondorf
ike (beware, he can surprise you a lot on here)
bowser
donkey kong
diddy kong (beware of getting narna'd off the stage though)

who NOT to take here:
snake (he still owns sadly)
dedede (even after the chain grab countering gyro, its stil an easy stock to take for him)
G&W (you cant camp him, he's the only character that you dont want to fight on the 2nd stage)
zelda (din's fire, that is all)

stage rating:
1st: 3/10
2nd: 9.9/10 (-0.1 for the fact even r.o.berts make mistakes)
3rd: 6.5/10

overall: 8.5/10

so what did people think of the diagram piece? should i do a few more like that?
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
Very nice piece of info, I knew that the 2nd one was great for Rob, but I was always camping on the wrong side of the stage xD
Good Read
 

TheMike

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
1,860
Location
Brazil
@the mike, actually, the ceiling is the same height as all of the neutral's when done from the centre of the slope a.k.a the average point.
As far as I know, it is lower than Final Destination's and Smashville's, but I might be wrong. However, the center of the slope is not where you should take advantage of anything. The correct place is under the platforms, especially the right one because it will be easier to kill with Usmash.
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
11,129
Location
England
@ahvena, thanks, but actually it dosent matter which side you camp on, which side youre on is good providing your opponent isn't, same thnig applies but its jsut easier to get a screenshot for that side oddly enough.

@the mike, well from what ive tested, its the same, however depending on the platform you do your killing under, its either closer than fd's or farther.
something for us all to know, all of the 6 neutral stages (cause theres dispute between lylat and ps1, meaning theres 6 potential ones) have exactly the same vertical distance between the floor and the ceiling, on all stages mario has to reach 101% for ikes u-tilt to kill and the same sort of trend is shown by other attacks.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
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Finland
I mean't that the other side is more open for your opponent to approach, but in the left side, the statue protects you and the opponent has to approach from above.
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
11,129
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England
I mean't that the other side is more open for your opponent to approach, but in the left side, the statue protects you and the opponent has to approach from above.
the differences are pretty trivial really, jsut camp of whichever side youre on
 

ccst

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
632
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Sweden
Switch FC
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Thank you so much Golden-psyco! You really convinced me! I change my ratio to 8,5 as well.
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
11,129
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England
Thank you so much Golden-psyco! You really convinced me! I change my ratio to 8,5 as well.
haha, thank you, now i need to find a mod that appreciates this so much they'd be willnig to change my account name for me
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
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****it, i havent use the tag golden psyco for about half a year now, but i cba to make another account
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
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Finland
I thnk you should just get premium, I also don't use Ahvena ever, I am -LzR- and have been for a long time now.
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
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Messages
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England
fine then.
well i have two hours to kill, shall i do another stage?
that is if we're done with castle seige
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
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England
excellent, i'll do brinstar then...

brinstar:
+r.o.b can escape lava rises easier than most characters

=horizontal boundaries are closer, so offstage f-air bcomes a killer rather than a gimper
=fungi under platform's and holding stage together can extent hitboxes
=fungi can act as a semi-shield from projectile's

-tiny stage allows for no camping
-lava can ruin hard earned gimps
-dodgy slants means your already nerfed laser is almost useless and pickup up the gyro is a chore
-sharking works particularly well against r.o.b here
-r.o.b's base is vulnerable beyond belief

brinstar is one of those stages which is disputed regularly, for-despite how nmeutral it may seem-has many gimpy, stupid tricks on it, such as the hidden C4 and the 10 second pkrocket.
if your opponent is not named falco, you should be banning this stage, unless you have your own personal hatred for a certain different stage (like me with jungle japes, but its not so much of a problem for r.o.b)
you have absolutely no reason to allow someone to take you here, too many character do well here, and you really don't.
first off, our spam game is so severely nerfed you might aswell forget you have a B-button, the stage is far too small to camp effectively unless you manage to split to two sections of the stage, and even then the opponent isn't going to let you do that (can't let you do that, star r.o.b!) and if they have a projectile they're just going to fire it untill it joins together again, and that small piece of fungi that you can use as a semi shield isn't going to hold out for long.
anyway, back on task, we all know how bad it is to have an opponent underneath us, well the lava forces us to jump up and away from the floor, possibly leaving a smart opponent the chance to punish our underside to no end.
the gyro is also pretty useless here. it has only one use, and you will require a little bit of time for it to happen, which you will only get if you k.o the opponent here, and that is to instantly fire it, pick it up. and then drop it on the fungi pool in the middle, it will keep bouncing up and could possibly do a little damage, all the while depleting the fungi sitting there.
a small gimmick that can be done to refresh one set k.o move is to go under the stage as if youre gonig to shark, and then attack the fungi pool with a n-air, sadly this stales possibly your best k.o move, but it makes your other possibly more staled ones strong again, maybe worth it considering the close horizontal boundaries. (this does NOT work with u-air for some reason, i'll be looknig into this)
in conclusion, youre reduced to solely using your melee game on this stage, your tilt's become your best move's because your down smash is made pretty poor by the ratehr extreme slants in the stage. f-tilt is your greatest weapon, but a better option is to avoid comnig to this stage at all

who to take here:
falco
r.o.b
(only take these here if you are an offensive player)

characters who arent an absolute nightmare here:
diddy
ice climbers
pikachu
peach
mario

who you never ever ever want to fight on this stage:
everyone else

stage overall:
when together: 1/10
when broken: 3/10
overall: 1.5/10

this is no exaggeration
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
I love this stage and IMO it's not that bad for Rob, my favorite stage and also one the most played. I never ban this stage for the reason I can surprise opponents with tricks of my own here. Still it's not a good stage for Rob, but it's underrated, take Falco here and win.
 

Nova9000

Smash Lord
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
1,408
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NC/MD
This stage sucks for ROB. You're better off switching your character than going here. If I'm forced to play here I just go DK.
 

ccst

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
632
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Sweden
Switch FC
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I hate this stage too. Just everything Golden-psyco said but the ratio. For me, it gets 3/10. Take Falco and King Dedede here, but not Meta Knight of course.
And doesn't Uair refresh, or what did you mean G-p?
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
11,129
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I hate this stage too. Just everything Golden-psyco said but the ratio. For me, it gets 3/10. Take Falco and King Dedede here, but not Meta Knight of course.
And doesn't Uair refresh, or what did you mean G-p?
well, the n-air refeshes hitboxes for every piece of fungi it hits, so if you hit 10 pieces with n-air, everything else becomes fully fresh and nair is completely stale, as it should do, it also makes the hotbix last forever.
but for whatever reason, no matter how many you break with u-air, it only fills one of the 10 'stale move' blocks.
at least thats from what i tested anyway, might want to test it yourself cause im slightly dubious of the results too
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
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Jun 12, 2009
Messages
11,129
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England
Against who do we ban this stage? I'm thinking along the lines of Lucas/ness/DK, do we need to ban this against MK?
when i say 'everyone' i fkn mean everyone, i'll change it to those who you never ever want to fight on this stage, shall i? *goes and edits*
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
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Jun 12, 2009
Messages
11,129
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There's a difference between MUs were this stage is bad vs this stage needs to get bant.
like i said at the end of my post, im really not exaggerating, this stage is too good for most character's, anyone would laugh if you let them take you to brinstar as r.o.b. its like a ganondorf going to fd against falco
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
stingers is right, it depends on the MU, if your opponent has a long range projectile, gg, if not, it's your better choice.
 
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