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Effective Hitboxes vs Standard Hitboxes

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Bl@ckChris

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Playing this game has shown me a certain discrepancy between hitboxes while moving and standing hitboxes. as we all know, a fox nairing in place has the hitbox of..well...fox. but if that fox gets a running start on FD, the effective hitbox of that same move, nair, becomes significantly larger. This difference is huge, and i've been wondering if anyone has done any sort of research regarding these effective hitboxes to find which moves have more or less true coverage, given a running start.

As a ganon main, i feel like ganon's effective hitboxes aren't as big as some of falcons or foxes, which is interesting considering the standing hitboxes of ganon are huge. i feel like falcons can even abuse effective hitboxes to the point of being able to get dair's and knees whether they don't tech, tech in place, or tech roll away, all with the same dair. that interests me, considering i don't think any of ganons hitboxes are effective to that sort of range (except side b, which kind of has its own odd rules of homing).



long story short, has anyone looked at the total area a falcon or fox nair covers and compared it to some of the larger standing hitboxes of the game, like a running ganon nair or a running ganon fair?
 
EPsilon933

EPsilon933

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tl;dr
hitboxes drag by 1 frame







What you see above you is the 4 frames that Jigglypuff's hit box comes out on.

Firstly, look at the first picture. All the hitboxes are circles, correct?

Now look at the second. You see how the farthest hitbox looks like a stretched out circle? That's because hitboxes drag by 1 frame. The more distance it moves in a single frame, the more stretched out it gets so the more area it covers (thus giving it more priority, read he note at the bottom about priority).

When your character is moving during an attack, the hitboxes can move faster and thus the hitboxes will drag farther.




Here is Fox doing a nair

The first picture shows his hitboxes on the first frame it his, with no dragging because there is not previous frame hitbox.

The second picture shows his nair when he's falling. See how stretched out it is?

By moving horizontally or verticall, you can help stretch out you characer's hitboxes.

Note
Priority isn't a real built in feature. It's just the name of something we call for moves that seem to out clash other moves. A move that out clashes other moves is what we call having higher priority than other moves. What influences priority is first of all who hit's who first before the opponent's hitbox comes out. Then there's invincibility where you can take hits and nothing happens to you. And finally there's the actual hitbox you hit with. The bigger the hitbox, the more priority your attack can have.


tl;dr
hitboxes drag by 1 frame
 
B

Bl@ckChris

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mk epsilon. i know you have the standing hitboxes as vids, so you probably know how to take the area of any given hitbox, multiply it by the distance they can travel in the air, and make sure that only active frames of hitbox are counting, and once that's done, take away all overlapping pixels to make one (or two, depending on how the attack works) total effective hitbox area over time.

i have faith in you...and anyone else with this kind of knowledge on their hands. i really am interested in seeing the results of this stuff.
 
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Bl@ckChris

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that, although not exactly what i was looking for, is REALLY cool. especially the description of how priority works, which was an extension of this concept that i really wanted to know about.

but i guess what i'm thinking of is...you know how on a camera, if you leave the shutter open, you can take a picture of a full lightning storm?

i wanna see what it looks like when you "leave the shutter open" on a fox's nair or a falcon's nair.

you answered a more applicable question though, the hitbox that can be active at any actual given time during an attack. what i wanna know is the hitbox that could have been active at any time during the whole duration of the attack.
 
EPsilon933

EPsilon933

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Bl@ckChris said:
but i guess what i'm thinking of is...you know how on a camera, if you leave the shutter open, you can take a picture of a full lightning storm?

i wanna see what it looks like when you "leave the shutter open" on a fox's nair or a falcon's nair.
Click to expand...
So you're looking for a picture that shows where all of Flacon's/Fox's nair hitboxes are in a single picture. It will change based on how you're moving. I assume you want a running SHFFL of these attacks?

Bl@ckChris said:
you answered a more applicable question though, the hitbox that can be active at any actual given time during an attack. what i wanna know is the hitbox that could have been active at any time during the whole duration of the attack.
Click to expand...
A hit box can be active/stretched in any angle depending on which direction you're going. If you're going up, the hitbox will drap below you. If you're retreating, the hitbox will drag where you were a frame ago. Which is part of the reason why retreating moves can seem so good.

I'm sleepy and I can focus on reading your question atm.
 
B

Bl@ckChris

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mk. i didn't even know if it was possible, and it certainly doesn't need to be anything instant or rushed at all, and i really do appreciate your effort. you were a cool bro at herb 3, and its cool to see you contributing to the community in general.

i just feel like there's some value in knowing how much space these hitboxes cover overall.
 
EPsilon933

EPsilon933

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Character Effective Hitboxes

Download Link
http://www.mediafire.com/?ys99e7wsyb72yqr

Also, here's what can happen to Jigglypuff's bair hitbox when fully stretched.

Fast falling and retreating perfectly





Rising and retreating perfectly






Perfectly stretched hitboxes of aerial moves that can put up a fight against Jigglypuff's bair Hitbox

Peach
Fast falling and retreating fair







Chris got me interested, hahaa. Anyone know any other moves?
 
mastermoo420

mastermoo420

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Wait, so does this mean that if you use Jiggz's b-air and do it while approaching, the effective hitbox gets smaller? o_O idk
 
Stratocaster

Stratocaster

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mastermoo420 said:
Wait, so does this mean that if you use Jiggz's b-air and do it while approaching, the effective hitbox gets smaller? o_O idk
Click to expand...
It stretches the direction it came from last frame. So It if you do a bair while falling it will stretch upwards, rising bair will stretch downwards, retreating bair will stretch towards your opponent, and approaching bair will stretch away from your opponent, but no matter which direction you move it does not get smaller.

Just maybe not as big as another option. k
 
B

Bl@ckChris

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LOOOOL you can't approach that from above at all. if ganon approached with dair he'd definitely get knocked out of it. that's pretty funny. and thats all active on that frame too. hilarious.
 
Dark Sonic

Dark Sonic

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Can you do a visual comparison of Jigg's retreating bair vs Marth's approaching fair and vice versa please?

Also, a pic of Falcon's dair from a dashing shorthop. I think it'll be interesting to see how much horizontal distance it can cover
 
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Hatacatan

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I tried to put all images off CFs shffled nair out of dash into one picture. I do not guarantee that the flying curve is accurate, because I only could construct it based on the hitboxdrag, and there are no hitboxes at some frames. The horizontal arrangement should be quite accurate, though, because the horizontal speed should not change to much if you are shffling out of dash. CFs speed during this jump was about 69 pixel per frame at this resolution, if I measured correctly.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8923/nairshfflcopy.jpg
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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Full speed (60 FPS) Fox SHFFL Nair
Slow speed (5 FPS) Fox SHFFL Nair
Full speed (60 FPS) Fox SH Nair
Slow speed (5 FPS) Fox SH Nair

Full speed (60 FPS) Falcon SHFFL Nair
Slow speed (5 FPS) Falcon SHFFL Nair
Full speed (60 FPS) Falcon SH Nair
Slow speed (5 FPS) Falcon SH Nair


Lemme know if you want the slower ones to be a different FPS.
It'd be a lot easier to animate if you'd save as .gif's. at least 75% of the time I spent doing this was converting the .pngs to .gif's. The animated .gif's would also look better if you'd take screenshots from when you enter jumpsquat to when the landing lag of the move ends. If you take screenshots w/ the camera zoomed out, that'd be even better, so it could actually show distance traveled.

Hatacatan: Put 'em as individual images of the same size (so that image's size) as .gif's and I can animate it for you.
 
dch111

dch111

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I think Hatacatan's image is the kind of "hitbox over time" Bl@ckChris originally wanted to see.

It shows the total coverage taking Falcon's mobility into account.
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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falcon's nair is like... "okay." like 2/3rds of the animation he doesn't even have a hitbox out.
 
H

Hatacatan

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