Important Threads + Q&A

Huggles828 · Mar 8, 2011

Huh. I thought I was the only one that was completely incapable of playing Tink since I was used to Link. Maybe it's a more common problem than I thought, haha.

I still take pride in my inability to play him at all though :troll:

#HBC | Red Ryu · Mar 8, 2011

I recommend Marth or Pikachu. Cover his bad ones well.

You could try MK, but you'll end up maining him lol.

Huggles828 said:
Huh. I thought I was the only one that was completely incapable of playing Tink since I was used to Link. Maybe it's a more common problem than I thought, haha.

I still take pride in my inability to play him at all though

Why are you the lucky one?

Jeos · Mar 8, 2011

it's really difficult to find a secondary for link and not getting too familiar with him (the secondary)

I can say so 'cause when I changed, it's incredibly noticeable the increase on improvement on gameplay, development on mindgames and in my own way of thinking when I'm playing.

not to say that playing become so easy...

but, as everyone said, pikachu and marth cover very well the bad MUs of link.

anyway, it's not easy to adapt to them, pikachu lacks range and his only proyectile is thundershock.
as for marth, he has no proyectiles at all but mucho range, speed and a different spacing game that link doesn't share.

Rizen · Mar 8, 2011

Second characters you're bad at just to learn and know the game better. I did this with Sonic, Wolf and dropped them because I couldn't win to save my life, but kept PT and G&W. Zelda is easy for me. It's been a lot of failure but good experience.
If you to stay low tiers, ArkiveZero played Link and Zelda. But Zelda was considered better then.

Huggles828 · Mar 26, 2011

So I was playing against some computers to kill some time (I have to be up early Saturday morning to make sure I catch an e-mail, so I woke up early) and had an interesting thought; can Link do a DACIT straight down into the ground? I've been playing as Diddy recently, and Glide toss down is a great option. Can Link do a DACIT straight down with, say, a banana, piece of Zamus's armor, bike tire, etc.? Would this be useful at all or would he slide too far away to follow up? Just a thought. I'll probably look into it myself at some point since there's a ton of Diddys and Warios where I play tourneys, but wondered if anyone knew.

Rizen · Mar 26, 2011

I don't think so. SHing>dthrow is probably the way to go. Ask FoxIsOpenlyDeceptive. *shrug*

Scabe · Mar 26, 2011

I don't think Link can DACIT down.

Huggles828 · Mar 26, 2011

Yeah, it doesn't look like he can. At least I couldn't get it to work. Jump cancelling a dthrow wasn't great, the spacing was terrible and wouldn't really be useful (they'd kill you before you got close enough to do it, unless you really mindgamed them hard). Jump cancelling it forward or backwards is probably still the best way, it looks like. Haha, I never bothered to learn if there was a DACIT down since it never made sense to do it with bombs. Thanks guys.

Beat11 · Mar 26, 2011

Yeah, Link can't naturally Glide toss with his shield and he is too slow to make any use of a JC throw. Link's DACIT is very useful tho. It makes Link faster along with maintaining space while attacking. Backward DACIT is great for a retreating move as well as spacing. Forward DACIT can be a good surprise approach. Upward DACIT is just a good way to keep mobile while throwing bombs up to control space. A fake reverse DACIT (the one where he throws the bomb forward but turns around) can be mixed with SH Bairs to apply a great shield pressure and approach option. The other one is almost completely useless except for the fact that it is the easiest to do.

We used to call these things "Bombsliding". What baffles me is that hardly any Links use this except for Kirin. It is very useful when it is used right. I'm currently training on using these more often.

Huggles828 · Mar 26, 2011

I dunno, I actually like jump cancel bombthrows because you do get a decent boost and I know I can do it reliably. I can DACIT forward and up reliably but can only DACIT backwards about 1/4 of the time. If you can't do it consistently it's not worth doing since it'll mess you up. Besides, I think jump cancelling is quite useful too, since it gives you that boost, shortens the throwing lag (standing throw animation instead of running throw animation), and sometimes it's better for spacing anyway.

In my opinion, reverse DACIT is nice, but it's an AT that takes a lot of practice and there's usually something else you can spend your time practicing to get better, like how to read people, etc.

Beat11 · Mar 27, 2011

I get what your saying. If you don't want to waste your time focusing on this AT when you can just JC throw and move on to more important stuff, then the JC throw is for you. But if you want more "bang for your buck" and your willing to train hard with this tech to achieve a much better and farther sliding distance, DACIT is a must.

On a silly note, I use Wiichuck and I can DACIT easily!!! I find it much easier than the GC controller because the D-pad can be set to smashes and if you notice, the D smash button is right above the A button to make DAC even easier.
WIICHUCK RULEZ!!!!!!

Huggles828 · Mar 27, 2011

Or you can use your pointer finger with Y to jump, and just pull your finger down to A and your thumb down to the C stick

. It also makes projectile use, especially bomb pulling out of short hops and full hops, much easier, floating with Peach and using her aerials easier, etc. DACUS and DACIT are easier too; I just can't get the timing on the reverse one down pat and am too lazy to practice it. I also have X set to grab; my control scheme is all sorts of messed up, but it's how I've played since Smash Bros 64, haha (aside from grab being X). I actually can't play at all if I have to use the standard control scheme, like on my brother's control scheme with Y set to grab.

(^How I hold the controller)
I still don't know if I'd say DACIT is a must; Legan gets by just fine without using it as far as I know, haha. It is nice to have if you can perform it consistently though; gives you more options.

I'm not a big fan of the Wiichuck, personally. Can you use the D-pad to SDI with it? I know you can set it to use Shake Smash attacks to break out of grabs easier (and more hilariously; "oh noez I been grabbed I'ma flail around with mah arms and break out super fast").

Beat11 · Mar 27, 2011

You can but it feels awkward when your doing it because your pressing buttons instead of tapping the stick. You can't rotate and do circular DI techniques like quarter-circle DI as far as I know.(only the control stick can be rotated, so maybe you can. Rotating the smash stick is impossible bcuz you don't have a stick there).

Shake smash is terrible and not useful for anything but breaking grabs. With that on, you can't really move much at all or you'll end up smashing for no reason. I don't know why anyone would want to use that but I have seen people use the Wiimote, so ehhh. Maybe someone would use that, I guess.

BTW, that a weird way to hold a controller,LOL!

Rizen · Mar 27, 2011

If a Link player can DAC they can DACIT upthrow a bomb, so that's not too hard. My problem is backthrowing one.

Since forwards/backwards bomb throws are OoS options like grabs/pivot grabs, I just dash>'C'(smash) forward/backwards/up/down+'L'(shield) for running bomb throws. Unless I need the slide from DACIT up throw. I never DACIT Fthrow as an approach because SHs give more spamming/Zair options.

Beat11 · Mar 28, 2011

Yeah, it's always the backwards one that everyone struggles with. The forward one can be an approach because the bomb acts as a shield/defensive block for you to run in on your opponent. They can't react to the bomb and you at the same time. The backwards one is hard but it is so good that it makes up for it if you master it. It can make Link so much faster when you combine it with SHFF, Arrow cancels, and other fast techs. But never blind yourself with fancy techs, focus more on reading and predicting. I'm just saying that techs like these could help if they were applied to your game wisely and not fool-heartedly.

Xcallion · Mar 30, 2011

How do i Zair without dropping/throwing an held bomb?

Scabe · Mar 30, 2011

You airdodge first.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Mar 31, 2011

Wild Scabe has appeared. *Throws Pokeball*

And yeah what he said about Zair holding a bomb.

Xcallion · Mar 31, 2011

appreciated.

Abel1994 · Mar 31, 2011

Wow you hold the controller like a pro.

ccst · Apr 19, 2011

Hello Link boards; just a question. What do you think about the R.O.B. MU and why? Thanks in advance!

Beat11 · Apr 20, 2011

It's even with slight R.O.B advantage because of Fair offstage. Link can give R.O.B lots of trouble onstage if he stays within mid range, not too close or not too far. R.O.B big size makes him very suspectible to Link's projectile traps and jab lock set ups. t0mmy made a thread on AiB somewhere about the MU stating that it was slight advantage R.O.B. It's got a good amount of detail but it doesn't mention any jab lock set ups tho.

I think its hard if you don't know what your doing as a Link player. But being a Link player, you've already obligated yourself to the task of learning and knowing each and every MU to stand a chance anyway.

Rizen · Apr 20, 2011

Medium size stages help Link. Small and big help ROB. Aggressive ROBs are harder to deal with. 55/45 ROB but that number gets worse for Link on bad stages like Frigate and RC.

Beat11 · Apr 21, 2011

Link wins on battlefield and brinstar but yeah frigate sucks.

RC isn't all that bad for Link, it is actually good because it assist his type of camping and seldomly enforces CQC. I don't know if R.O.B is good on this stage or not. Link can fight every character on this stage except the ones who are really cheap on it.

ccst · Apr 26, 2011

Oh I didn't think this MU was THAT "even" to be quite honest. I think it's more like 60:40 R.O.B.'s favour. =/

Thank you regardless.

Huggles828 · Apr 26, 2011

There are a couple MU's that I personally disagree with what most Link mains say; I think Wario's 45-55, not the 40/60/35/65 some people say, and I think ROB is 35-65.

ROB's left hook (ftilt) has nasty range which hurts a lot of what Link can do in this MU (trying to space ROB). Link can't run and spam because ROB murders Link long range. Up close is lolROBadvantage. Link can be difficult for ROB to deal with if he can stay in the mid range area, outside of ROB's close range attacks and inside his safe spamming range. I find ROB's grabs to be particularly nasty against Link. Link's harder to gimp than you'd think but ROB is one of the better characters at it.

Outside of gimping, Link is going to live waaaay longer than ROB. Link with good DI doesn't flat-out die until really high but gets gimped if he's sloppy or fails at DI; if ROB doesn't die he's making it back, period, but from what I hear his momentum cancelling sucks pretty bad and doesn't really help him as much (basically they're exact opposite ends of the spectrum).

/my noobish 2 cents

When I play against ROB, I try to stay in a midrange zone outside of ROB's grab range and ftilt range but close enough he doesn't feel comfortable using his projectiles. Basically, Link can do well if he can stay in zair range (which has 2 hits, which hurts ROB a lot from what I hear), but his happy spacing zone is going to be wildly moving around whereas ROB outspaces Link almost completely outside of this tiny zone.

35:65 ROB favor imo (although I think it's worse than almost all the other Links). Stage selection greatly benefits ROB; it's more even on neutral stages but ROB can always CP a cheesy level like Frigate, Rainbow Cruise (which, 1, I'm not convinced is a great level for Link in most situations, and 2, ROB is going to enjoy the long range camping and crazy stage layout/forced moving around moreso than Link), heck, even Lylat Cruise, and Link can't ban them all.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Apr 27, 2011

When you bomb drop to recatch an aerial, I find myself doing it with Fair, and nair only, do you guys think doing it with his other aerials like Dair, Bair and Uair could be useful?

Scabe · Apr 27, 2011

Yeah imagine using it for D-air and cancelling the long lag with bomb explosion lag. It's probably a minor difference.

Beat11 · Apr 27, 2011

Dair can be cancelled from a platform like the regular one with the bomb but it reqiures you to jump twice, at least that what i think. Uair can be cancelled as well with bombs. Bair becomes the hardest to use with bombs. To SHAC a Bair like normal with a bomb, you must first short hop and drop the bomb then fast fall. After that, perform a SH RAR Bair to catch the bomb. If done correctly, you should be able to do a Bair and arrow cancel all in one (two) short hop(s) with a bomb in hand. Not to mention that this autocancels for pivot boosting. Uair is the least useful because there are very few situations where you have to use it.

And also, IMO RC is almost like Norfair for Link.
1.He doesn't barely have to recover
2.The layout aids Link's projectile spacing and camping while embracing Link's platform game with plenty of platforms
3.Not much CQC issues here
4.Falco becomes MUCH easier here due to not being able to camp us at all
5.practically all Link's projectiles get buffed here except Zair, which gets nerfed
6. DDDDDDDDDDDDaiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrzzzzz OF D0000m!!!!!

Ryos4 · Apr 28, 2011

Idk RC can be decent for Link vs someone who cant take advantage of that stage. But if you run into someone like Pit or MK and they force you to use Spin attack to recover during the vertical portion of the stage. You are either going to die or take some serious amount of damage.

Rizen · Apr 28, 2011

Ryos4 said:
Idk RC can be decent for Link vs someone who cant take advantage of that stage. But if you run into someone like Pit or MK and they force you to use Spin attack to recover during the vertical portion of the stage. You are either going to die or take some serious amount of damage.

Kirby/DDD's suck and spit can easily mean death at several points too

.

Red Ryu said:
do you guys think doing it with his other aerials like Dair, Bair and Uair could be useful?

If you're launched sideways holding a bomb: Bair (throw bomb back)>down (fast fall) and C stick Bair (catch the bomb) will leave Link canceling the launch momentum and holding the bomb to help him recover. It's a great tactic

.

Beat11 · Apr 28, 2011

Link does good against most characters on this stage if you do what most Link mains take pride in despising, PLAYING GAY!!!!!
Link can be pretty good at it if you play a constant mobile keep away and spam bombs type game. I had played against people using Link on this stage and they all told me that he was anooying on there except for the MKs.

Characters Link CANNOT fight here:
1.Metaknight
2.Wario
3.Mr Game and Watch
4.Kirby
5.Jigglypuff
6.King dedede(?)(not really IMO)
7.Zero Suit Samus (stupid juggling)

Most of the characters listed above are bad for Link on this stage because of gay stalling tactics (Wario, Jigglypuff,MK). Others because of their down right superior air game and speed that allow them to destroy Link in mid air (ZSS,GW,Kirby,MK again).

Abel1994 · May 2, 2011

Should I give up on link? I completly suck with him

But I lub his game so much

Rizen · May 2, 2011

Abel1994 said:
Should I give up on link? I completly suck with him

But I lub his game so much

Keep him for fun, maybe as a low tier main. He's fun and I'm hooked on him but I don't blame people for using other characters instead.
Do what you want to do.

Abel1994 · May 2, 2011

ugh Izaw just is to cool that it makes me know I suck compared to that lol

I hate Toon link with a passion. I mained Young link and Link in Melee so brawl is a let down on link

Huggles828 · May 2, 2011

Haha, Legan is da bess Link.

Sakurai just hates Miyamoto, haha. Look who's bottom tier; Link, Zelda, Ganon, Mario, Bowser, Samus, and Yoshi. Those are some pretty prominent video game characters.

Abel1994 · May 2, 2011

Its kinda ironic how the "sidekicks" are higher tier then the "main one"

Or how the big selling games are bottem tier.

Wish they kept young link though

Black Mantis · Jul 30, 2011

How do snake and link work together in teams?

MARLX · Aug 17, 2011

What is link's momentom cancel?

Huggles828 · Aug 17, 2011

Snake and Link in teams? Not sure, I don't usually use Link in teams. It's probably not terrible. Link likely appreciates having a good teammate in Snake, but Snake probably isn't a big fan of having a dead weight partner in Link.

Link should use bair to momentum cancel when hit sideways. If you get hit up high and are going to die off the top, use dair.

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