Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

Reyth said:

Hey Nabe the scum QT is down, was that a good enough defense?

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It was good, but you should've chainsawed him rather than just showing why he's wrong. "Huge strawman" got me all nipply though.

Phoneskimming but this stuck out mainly, also the phrase "traveling cat" (hurrah). Ready your bowels for a post tomorrow.

Kawaii Kangaroo said:

@T-Block: To further address why I (Vand) have dropped you as a play for toDay is generally because I don't see much/enough evidence for you being scum. The original suspicions on you came from July/J (J made the original case on you) and this was back when I was getting my teeth pulled out (I actually had a gut town read from your early back and forth with Nich). When I went to catch up, J told me he thought you were scum so I specifically paid extra attention to your posts as I was catching up. That post where I quoted was stuff I wrote down in my notes when I re read about you, things I found or odd or wanted an explanation for. For the most part you've explained where you're coming from and I can see a possible town motivation on things you've done. So yeah, I decided that the only reason I actually didn't like you was your push on Ran. Which imo doesn't warrant enough for a lynch.



I don't know exactly what you mean by proving his role? I can't remember how Ran said he has to activate his role (Iirc it was at Night) but I generally think he shouldn't use it.

If you're worried about him being scum and you want him to "prove and waste" it per se, we could pre determine two targets beforehand. I.e. he could use it ToNight on PLSD and us for example, and everyone just lynches PLSD if the role is legit. I guess scum could night kill us, which might stop his ability or something, but eh I'm not too worried about it.

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But that basically determines a PLSD lynch toMorrow, which is not what we want =\

What if Nabe claimed that role right now? Would that still be enough to prevent you from wanting to lynch him? Wouldn't you want it to be proven at least? You should consider those who don't have a townRan read imo...

What's wrong with a PLSD lynch tomorrow? He's about the only lynch everyone agrees with.

What do you propose Ran should do then? I feel like you're suggesting we should lynch ran to confirm his role >.<. How else can we prove his role?

vanderzant said:

What's wrong with a PLSD lynch tomorrow? He's about the only lynch everyone agrees with.

What do you propose Ran should do then? I feel like you're suggesting we should lynch ran to confirm his role >.<. How else can we prove his role?

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Bleck, I need to stop doing this.

At this point we're more or less waiting for July, Swiss, and Ran to come in and vote. (Catch up soon you guys!)

Kawaii Kangaroo said:

@2432: You're not on my Town list.

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No kidding? I thought for sure I was your #1 town read fyi.

But the question I asked is why you think I'm scum.

Nicholas1024 said:

The first example is un-arguable because there's no reasoning. You can't take issue with someone giving an unexplained town read unless you get WHY first. Nabe never gives the "why" for his reads. For example, I've asked him at least 3 times to substantiate his VG-scum read, and he still hasn't done it.

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Really? This is the first I've heard of it.

Recent VG posts: 1727, 2251, 2306. I also agree with earlier sheeping charges, and his play (including that) continues to remind me of Pulp Fiction when we hydra'd as scum.


Speaking of,
VG, please get to 2507.

Ran, did you ever respond to my 1170? I don't think you did, since Zen's gambit came after.

The Nabe case sucks major wind. It is a veritable wind TUNNEL of suckiness. The Nabe case IS about active lurking and its totally false. The Nabe case is nothing other than Nich looking at his wagon and voting each person on it in turn and then tunnelling the crap out of that person. Nich is a better scum candidate than Nabe is. Nabe's case on Nich at least has merit.

If you people think you should choose Nabe to lynch over Nich you have a major malfunction and I REFUSE to participate.

He's a loyal one.

Reyth, would you vote me at deadline? Or am I just not an option?

Ur just not an option.

There IS no case against you so I sure as heck aint voting you and I'm not going to be bullied into it by the stupid "oh you're so anti-town you would vote NL" garbage. I will tell you where you can stow that...

I mean REALITY CHECK PEOPLE! Step back and take a look at what you're doing here! You are tunnelling Nich's wagon along with him.

I'm serious people:

Reyth, if you think you can stop me from lynching Nabe with just insults, you don't know me very well. Active lurking is not the case against Nabe, fake contribution and lack of scum hunting would be a better summary.

Well I'm actually aiming at the OTHER people on his wagon but since you brought it up, if I am being insulting it is to the crap case on Nabe and not to any person.

In ISO-ing Nabe I find his contribution to be genuine and of a pro-town mindset.

Your case is just an issue of playstyle and that's why it sucks wind.

If I took issue with play style, I'd be lynching Degrey right now. I don't care how many questions Nabe asks, as long as he uses the answers for scum hunting. But he hasn't. Therefore, I have an issue with him.

Then why does he have a scum list longer than mine?

Sorry to bring up the elephant in the room but gosh this case sucks.

Just a side note, I am getting very disturbed over Ran's disappearance.

Reyth said:

Then why does he have a scum list longer than mine?

Sorry to bring up the elephant in the room but gosh this case sucks.

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Because, you know, he doesn't want to get lynched so he'll hop on any possible wagon to get out of it. Can you even name a possible non-Nabe lynch that Nabe WOULDN'T support?

I think Nabe should answer that question and not me because I'm not Nabe and THAT'S MY POINT -- your case is an issue of simple read explanation and you should be fleshing it out with queries but instead you just jump the gun on basically air and say Nabe is scum.

Should townies be hiding the reasoning for their reads to the point where you have to drag it out of them? And does that answer the accusation of Nabe being ready to jump on just about ANY lynch aside from himself?

I haven't hidden anything. Every read I have is fleshed out, in-thread. If you find one of them unclear, ask about it or better yet, show how it's unclear since you're trying to get me lynched. How is this point still on the table when you refuse to substantiate it at every turn?

@Nich: Why are you asking me?? The point is that you should be asking Nabe and gauging his answers to see if they are sincere and building a case on that.

Alright Nabe, let's start with the case against Swiss, what makes him scummy, moreso than say PLSD or Zen?

Quotes of where you've stated your reasoning behind your reads in the past would be greatly appreciated (if they actually do exist).

I planned to make a post but there's too much saturday night fever

Nabe said:

Let's use the analogy of a locked room with people inside. Someone tells the group that there's a killer, and that killer's looking for a specific person. Then, someone consciously hints that they're the target. You think:
a) that person is the target (they're cocky, or dumb, or trying to look over-the-top)
b) that person is lying about being the target (they're town trying to fake it)
c) that person is lying about being the target (they're the killer)

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^before wii get into this in more detailz - which one do you stand by?

Kaptain Kangaroo said:

If you're worried about him[Ran] being scum and you want him to "prove and waste" it per se, we could pre determine two targets beforehand. I.e. he could use it ToNight on PLSD and us for example, and everyone just lynches PLSD if the role is legit. I guess scum could night kill us, which might stop his ability or something...

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Space shuttle this is Houston, we have a problem.

Errm, how about NOT.

Nicholas1024 said:

Alright Nabe, let's start with the case against Swiss, what makes him scummy, moreso than say PLSD or Zen?

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Swiss' posts are moving towards a motive. PTSD isn't attempting to rock the boat, Zen is half-trying to be replaced and hasn't done anything since the Ran gambit. All three are "active lurking" if you like but what they do when they're here is different.

Nicholas1024 said:

Quotes of where you've stated your reasoning behind your reads in the past would be greatly appreciated (if they actually do exist).

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So, just to clarify here: you're asking me for a post containing all my reads with quoted reasoning from prior posts, conglomerated in one big post? A post we might call a "full reads post", the kind you said you haven't been asking for all game?

Just making sure we're on the same page here.

SoupaKatamari said:

before wii get into this in more detailz - which one do you stand by?

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I know what you're getting at, haha. You're right, I don't see a motive for mafia to do what VG did when it's laid out all orderly in a list like that (kudos to the list-maker ). But I still find him scummy, so I suppose I'm leaning killer.

vanderzant said:

What's wrong with a PLSD lynch tomorrow? He's about the only lynch everyone agrees with.

What do you propose Ran should do then? I feel like you're suggesting we should lynch ran to confirm his role >.<. How else can we prove his role?

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I propose we should lynch him, because he's been scummy, and it's not worth it to let him prove his role. You yourself said that he shouldn't use his power... so how do you expect the rest of us to believe him? Just on the basis that it's a ballsy move to claim that?

Let's talking about a completely different game. If one of your scumpicks claimed that role, would you really say "that role is too strong to be scum, so he must be town. but the action is anti-town, so let's not have him prove it. i'll just believe him and put him as town"?

Nabe said:

Swiss' posts are moving towards a motive. PTSD isn't attempting to rock the boat, Zen is half-trying to be replaced and hasn't done anything since the Ran gambit. All three are "active lurking" if you like but what they do when they're here is different.

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So basically, Swiss is actually trying to do something? Let's use your patented "Look at it both ways" deal, have you considered that he might be town trying to scum hunt?

So, just to clarify here: you're asking me for a post containing all my reads with quoted reasoning from prior posts, conglomerated in one big post? A post we might call a "full reads post", the kind you said you haven't been asking for all game?

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No, I just meant on the Swiss one for the moment. But that basically goes for all your important reads, basically I want quotes with your reasoning behind your scum reads (except me, as we've gone quite throughly over that ground).

(side note, not to step in the way of your excellent question to KK or anything but ya that's exactly what I did)

Nicholas1024 said:

No, I just meant on the Swiss one for the moment. But that basically goes for all your important reads, basically I want quotes with your reasoning behind your scum reads (except me, as we've gone quite throughly over that ground).

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I fully support this product and or service.

Nicholas1024 said:

So basically, Swiss is actually trying to do something? Let's use your patented "Look at it both ways" deal, have you considered that he might be town trying to scum hunt?

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Of course. But you asked me why Swiss is scummier than PTSD or Zen; that's why. They're not trying to accomplish anything, and he is.

I like how you say "your patented look at it both ways deal" as if it's a bad thing, and not one of the only standards town can consistently hold players to.

Nicholas1024 said:

No, I just meant on the Swiss one for the moment. But that basically goes for all your important reads, basically I want quotes with your reasoning behind your scum reads (except me, as we've gone quite throughly over that ground).

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You said "reads". And a post of only "important reads" is still essentially a full reads post, since town reads are rooted in 'innocent until proven guilty' and don't need the same footwork.

@Nabe: So you're saying that you don't want to post your top scum reads with reasoning??

I already agreed to pages ago, you'll recall. But I'm also going to dig on Nichscum when he wanders so willingly into my midst.

Nabe said:

Of course. But you asked me why Swiss is scummier than PTSD or Zen; that's why. They're not trying to accomplish anything, and he is.

I like how you say "your patented look at it both ways deal" as if it's a bad thing, and not one of the only standards town can consistently hold players to.

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So, trying to accomplish something is a bad thing? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, especially since I think what he's trying to accomplish is actual scum hunting.

And actually I was using your logic to disprove your position, which shows that one of them is false.

You said "reads". And a post of only "important reads" is still essentially a full reads post, since town reads are rooted in 'innocent until proven guilty' and don't need the same footwork.

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Hmph. I put everyone at "null until proven guilty/innocent", and so do most people. My town reads are based on them actually doing town stuff, I just want your main scum reads WITH REASONING!

Let's see if I have Nabe's position right.

1) Only posting reads when asked for them and never posting reasoning is a perfectly normal town play.
2a) One should never post one's important reads with reasoning, it's anti-town. It's better to hide said important info like "I think player X is scummy for this."
2b) Every read Nabe has is completely fleshed out with info in the thread (How this coexists with point 2a is a mystery). Of course, he's not going to dig up the quotes when I ask for them, since they don't actually exist.
3) All people are townie until proven otherwise, there's no such thing as varying levels of town reads.
4) Swiss is scummy because unlike the other lurkers, he's trying to actually do something besides lurk. Of course Nabe doesn't provide any details on what that something is (or what he thinks it is), just that Swiss isn't completely inactive and therefore scum. Right...
5) One of the reasons that Video is scum because the two hydra heads disagree with each other. (Someone please inform me why the two hydra heads disagreeing is scummy. Sure, it might be scum trying to flip flop on a wagon, but it could just as easily be 2 townie heads that disagree with each other's scum hunting. If I were part of a scum hydra, I personally would be careful not to contradict my partner...)
6) Nabe has no less than 9 people he would join in the lynch on.

Reyth said:

Vote Preference List
Nabe -- Nich, VG, SK, PTSD, July, KK, Swiss, Ran, Zen

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The only players he's not willing to lynch would be himself, Reyth, T-block, and Degrey. (Note to self: I'm going to laugh SO hard if it turns out that his scum buddies are in that small group. I doubt he'd be that obvious though.)


7) Nabe somehow missed my repeated requests for his reasoning behind video-scum. Those requests are in #2351, #2354 (Actually, he never refuted this post at all. I maintain it's because he couldn't and wanted to drop the issue quickly.) I'm pretty sure there's a third one, but I can't find it at the moment.

And one point from Reyth.

7) Nabe is town because... he supposedly has a townie mindset. He won't quote examples (although they should be easy for him to dig up, supposedly being 3/4's of Nabe's posts), but it's scum hunting! And he says that instead of noticing that Nabe doesn't post scum reads with reasoning and taking that as a scum tell, I should just ask about his reasoning (somehow he failed to notice that I've BEEN asking for it and been ignored), and take it as simple coincidence that there's only one lynch push he's made and maybe 2 scum reads with reasoning. In all of 2500 posts. And that one lynch push was me at a time where EVERYONE had me as dumb or scum, and Nabe needed to come up with content or look suspicious. And that nothing new was brought to the table, but it was basically Nabe looking at Reyth's post and changing his mind on me. Right...


So yeah, I'm still really liking my Nabe vote here.

@Nabe
What color rope would you like for your hanging? We have the Scarlet Strangler, the Dark Death sentence, the Lime Life-ender, and of course the Normal Noose.

T-block said:

I propose we should lynch him, because he's been scummy, and it's not worth it to let him prove his role. You yourself said that he shouldn't use his power... so how do you expect the rest of us to believe him? Just on the basis that it's a ballsy move to claim that?

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You have an issue with him claiming a role that everyone has agreed he should NEVER use? Really now? I have no clue why every time you talk about Ran, you always seem to refer to "his role" as if its an important thing to discuss. You should take comfort knowing that if he's town he'll never use his role, and if he's scum he'll only use it before LYLO (by this stage, it's irrelevant because the theoretical OP scum team would of already won!!!).

If you think he's scum, you should be focusing on presenting your case on him. Asking me how I expect you to believe Ran's role is NOT the issue here.

His role could be a scum or town. Could dammit!

T-block said:

Let's talking about a completely different game. If one of your scumpicks claimed that role, would you really say "that role is too strong to be scum, so he must be town. but the action is anti-town, so let's not have him prove it. i'll just believe him and put him as town"?

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If I claimed Town Fairy Princess, does that make me scum? Does that make me town? Neither, you look at my play silly .

I know you're getting at "but you're clearing him because of his role!!!" Each situation is different. Sometimes you have to do what you think is best. Sure, I've lynched a claimed power role in my time, but I did it because it was the best course of action.

Rewind back a few thousand posts. I distinctly remember your scum list was KK/July/Ran. Then July revealed that we were masons. And you said something along the lines of (not a quote):

"I still don't like KK/July, but it'd be silly to lynch the claimed town masons on Day 1"

Now who's being hypocritical?

Side Note:

DeGrey hasn't posted for about 48 hours.

PSDL got a prod and hasn't posted since god knows when.

I am very disturbed by this sudden dissapearance. I am going to hold this against him because thats what good scum hunters do.

Hurr durr

The Swiss case sucks major wind. It is a veritable wind TUNNEL of suckiness. The Swiss case IS about active lurking and its totally false. The Swiss case is nothing other than Reyth and Nabe and DeGrey pulling a wagon out of their *** and being dumb. Nabe is a better scum candidate than Swiss is. Swiss' case on Nabe at least has merit.

If you people think you should choose Swiss to lynch over Nabe you have a major malfunction and I REFUSE to participate.

Nabe said:

No kidding? I thought for sure I was your #1 town read fyi.

But the question I asked is why you think I'm scum.

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Always late to the party and only speaks when spoken to.

Any complaints should be taken up with President Nich.