Time Travelers - Town wins! Time travel mechanics rarely used!

Consider that I have and she will respond because she always does.

Okie dokie.

Zεη said:

Return to the past now...

Says Geremy from Code Lyoko.

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Zen please clarify this post.

We are going back to n0. I'm tired of it being day time.

Zen, is English your first language?

Where do I come up with this? Like I just made that up on the spot.

Ok, nvm.

I'm on wiinet. My bad if there are typos. Why?

You spelled the character's name wrong

Jeremy Geremy of the Jeremiah Smith family.

Pointless discussion. And I can't join it. JERKS

It had a point before he stated he made it up.

What was the point? I didn't really see one, just that he spelt jeremy wrong. :D

It wasn't pointless. If I answered 'yes' and claimed to be telling the truth, he would conclude I was lying from mispelling the name.

Zen y u answer for him ;-;

So Ran, where have you been? Why gone so long?

I was ninjad by your two posts @ Ran.

Been at home. Been not caring about this game. And like I explained before, reads r messed up.

Zεη said:

I was ninjad by your two posts @ Ran.

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curse your wiinet Zen.

Reyth said:

And so why did she offeer that as a defense for your DAYS of almost no activity??

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Because he's helped me move stuff of hers in TWICE this week, today being the last day. I didn't think I have to account for everything he does when he's not on here, but I know that I wasn't playing mafia while I was moving stuff in and neither was he and I don't badger him about what he does when he's not playing mafia.

So Ran, what are your reads at at the moment?

Reyth, who the **** cares what he was doing outside the game. I hate when people try to use out of game stuff to incriminate people in game. Not everyone takes this game that seriously.

SK, you, Nabe.

SoupaKatamari said:

Btw Vanz/July and to a certain extent Grey as he's just that desperate to know - we should talk about what wii should plan to do in twilight - I'm thinking of saving the speed-up until i get at least one scum flip first, that way i can determine trails and maximise efficiency in hitting the scummies (and best case would be 2 consecutively - I've done this before... many times ). I expect good results. As for the "other game" - I have no clue what to expect from this.

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Oops I missed this. Yes I'm fine with you deciding in Twilight, though I would use it earlier rather than later, because it is such a nice ability, and wii wouldn't want the scummies to off you first

@Zen: Why? Why WHHYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!

Seriously, Ran + Reyth = Bad for thread clutter.

On a more serious note, I'll get to Nabe's straw man later, if everyone still wants me to. (I have a feeling everything that's needed to be said has been said at this point, but I'll let you guys decide.)

Nich asks for a response despite me saying that I'd rather not clutter up the thread with a useless back and forth. Then says he won't respond because he thinks it's useless.

ok

Ranmaru said:

Currently I would vote nabe, but I want him to speak further about SK. I dislike their play.

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Not sure what you're looking for, since I've laid out all my SK points. Did you want me to elaborate on something in particular? atm new content requires SK to be here and responding to me.

Nabe said:

Nich asks for a response despite me saying that I'd rather not clutter up the thread with a useless back and forth. Then says he won't respond because he thinks it's useless.

ok

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I realized as I read your argument that at this stage we're essentially repeating the same viewpoints over and over. However, if other players want me to respond, I can do so, I'm just not sure what it'll accomplish at this point.

Nicholas1024 said:

I realized as I read your argument that at this stage we're essentially repeating the same viewpoints over and over. However, if other players want me to respond, I can do so, I'm just not sure what it'll accomplish at this point.

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You could've said "I realize now that I was wrong in asking you to continue the back-and-forth". You could've acknowledged the point I'm making, that point being that you're backing off of what you previously thought.

This seems to be a theme. You realize you're wrong and back off to avoid damage. It occurred first when you said I was asking useless questions, a point you had picked up from your first reread. After it had been challenged by other players, you took another supposed second reread and realized you were wrong, and adjusted your argument.

I posit, like you did previously of me, that your not-responding is because you find yourself unable to respond to what I've presented. So I'd like a response. Or, I'd like to know what part(s) of my post specifically led you to realize that you were previously wrong.

that reads post

SK -- 1921 (quoted proof of the early-game point with captioning), 2308, 2312, 2413 (so far unexplained), 2425 (inconsistent). Also factoring in recent near-deadline absence which will result in an easy squeeze through my lynch without having to answer to my questions. 2429 encapsulates the majority of this, and 2553 is valuable also (a response to July about Sk's claim).

VG -- 2607, and his recent absence while on Swiss (which will likely end in a hard-to-blame deadline vote for me)

/scumreads

Swiss -- just a good wagon on a generally scummy and inactive Swiss; voting him to avoid writing a Nich case until toNight tbh. Hasn't answered a number of questions from me (could be due to having skimmed though).

PTSD -- inactive; I dislike the Laundry side (gut) and Kuz side nonexistent, would hit in place of Swiss as well

July -- 2423 recently, other posts farther back but 2423 sums it up; below PTSD only because of the mason claim

KK -- obv. the same alignment as July, but I have points as well. (Ask specifically for elaboration if necessary and I'll round up the old posts.) Recent posts include the reasonless vote on me, ignoring my questions clearly in favour of the "just lynch him and be done with it" policy instead, and reaching as raised in 2380 by Reyth

KK: Again, I ask if you agree with the case Nich has made against me. Commit to some manner of reasoning for your vote on me with deadline coming up plx.

Ran: You said you're willing to vote me but this seems to be largely due to "not liking" my vote on Nich. Earlier I asked you to elaborate on this point and you told me you hadn't even read my reasoning for the vote. Explain this.

Ranmaru said:

Been at home. Been not caring about this game. And like I explained before, reads r messed up.

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Can you please show me where you explained this before?

Fine Nabe, I'll go through this one more time.

Nabe said:

Let's get something straight, first of all. Objectively, you disagree with my idea that we're going back and forth and pissing people off with walls, isn't that correct? Do you think that anyone aside from us is reading this tripe? Or do you really think in all your cocksure posturing that I don't have a response to you?

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Well, I hope that others are reading this. However, the undecided votes are the more inactive players, so it's rather unlikely that this post will have much of an impact on the lynch. But just in case...

You made a scumslip, Nich. In my opinion, mind you. But when someone makes a scumslip, the appropriate action is to lynch them until you can't lynch no mo'. It's true that I haven't pushed anyone besides you, but it is absolutely not true that I have only you as a scum read. **** off.

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Alright then, if you do have other scum reads, and Swiss isn't one of them (as you said it was basically there to delay making your case on me), why didn't you put your vote on one of them? It's quite obvious my lynch isn't happening today (or any other day once you flip scum), so why haven't you tried to push a lynch on someone you think is scummy that WOULD happen today?

I'm making the point that you're asking me for a full reads list and suggesting again and again that a townie should make one.

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This is a lie. Quote where I've specifically asked for a FULL read list, just once.

STRAWMANSTRAWMANSTRAWMAN oh god kill me now
Why so ****ing negative? FYPOV I could just as easily be wrong. However, I still insist I'm not. All I have heard from you for quite a while now is you asking me for a full reads list and yes, I will quote every ****ing single instance of it, but that is what I think. When I say "oh my god you suck" it's because oh my god, you ****ing suck.

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There doesn't seem to be much to respond to in this bit. Although I have found how annoying it is to be tunneled in this game, thanks to T-block, I'm persisting in my vote on you as I'm quite confident in my read. My apologies if this makes the game un-fun for you, but I'm not planning on backing off here.

When? When did you ask? When did I dodge?
Responding to this tomorrow since it requires actual thought and commitment to an idea rather than just vomiting up my blind hatred.

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I just gave the answer in my last case-making post, one you haven't yet replied to. As for dodging, although you replied to the rest of my arguments from that post/time period, you never responded to my request for the VG read.

You haven't addressed my point, that being that full list was clearly meant by me since I used the phrase when forming my post. This is separate from the issue of whether or not you've been pushing for a full reads list all game; I said "full reads list" and you said "reads list" and expected me to understand that you meant a partial? Someone needs to learn the English language -- in it we sometimes leave out words when both parties understand the meaning.

Spoiler

look at me I'm a pompous *******

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Let's suppose for a second that you were sincere in thinking I meant a full reads list. Why in that case didn't you give the reasoning along with it like I've been asking for the last 1000 posts? (It's rather sad, but that's not an exaggeration.)

Thanks, I needed the refresher.
In my opinion I've covered all my reads, and I've committed to a catch-up post on those reads, so aside from you taking yet another opportunity to talk down to me, this is a non-issue.

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Not much to say to this.

Yes. Save me the trouble, by all means.

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*sigh* Remind me to get to this later, I've got limited time ATM, so I can't dig through the thread right now.

Do you not understand statement analysis? It's pretty common and easy to grasp -- I read your statement and demonstrated the underlying motives. I didn't claim that you called me outright scummy for disliking full reads lists; that would have been pretty poor of you. What I did claim is that your defense of disliking reads lists as any sort of scum tell is an indicator that you hold it as one, and that as a result I believe my argument substantiated -- that you were looking for a full reads list all along.

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Here's what I said.

He pretends I'm asking for a full read list, and calls the idea anti-town. Now, disliking full read lists isn't a scum tell on it's own. (That was the Dgames stance on the issue for a while.) However, he's completely straw manned my argument, I want his main reads + reasoning, he pretends I want a full read list and tells me to look through the thread for something he hasn't given.

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I seriously don't even see what you're trying to argue. You aren't making any sense at all!

No, this is a separate issue. In 2307, I say that my reasoning for my reads is scattered throughout the thread. I don't say anything about extra hidden instances of me pushing other lynches. In 2314, you say "he's asking me to look through the thread for something he hasn't given". I respond in 2352 by asking you to clarify what I haven't given. In 2354 (the post I'm responding to now) you say the above quote, suggesting that I've asked you to look through the thread for instances of me pushing other lynches. But it's plain from 2307 that I was referring to my reads being scattered throughout the thread (since I used those exact words); I did not ever say that I've pushed other lynches, and in fact I've acknowledged to you every time you repeat the point that no, I have never pushed other lynches.

So in summary, I did not ask you to look for me pushing other lynches. Considering how often I've acknowledged that I haven't, it's clear that you must be strawmanning me, suggesting that I'm asking you to find something that we both agree doesn't exist.

Or maybe you just can't read Calling strawman is quite fun though, I can understand the rush it must give you. Strokes the man-ego.

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Alright, glad to see you've agreed with the pushing for a lynch bit. However, what about pushing for reads with reasoning? That's the point, I can still point to (say) Reyth and call him scummy for his interactions with you and his role in the Swiss wagon. Just because your vote is committed to a particular wagon doesn't mean that you can't give OTHER scum reads with reasoning. (My apologies for repeatedly bringing the push for a lynch bit up, but the people that have you as a town read haven't conceded that point, so I keep mentioning it in my challenges, due to their insistence that you have PRO SCUMHUNTING.)

Again, the point re: quoting myself on other lynches is absolutely ********, since we've both agreed again and again that I haven't pushed other lynches. Maybe I should quote myself saying that, just for reference.

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And maybe I should quote myself saying that I wanted important reads with reasoning, not a full reads list... But yeah, we're done with this particular point.

There we go. Anyway, continuing with the above you talk about another proof problem. But what you say above is incorrect (seems to be a pattern fyi). I'm not asking you to do a PBPA to point out reads you don't think are fleshed out -- you already did one, remember? Having read this thread three(?) times now, I would expect you to already have some faint idea of which specific reads you don't think are fleshed out, since you're accusing me of not fleshing out my reads.

There is nothing on my shoulders here -- as quoted above, I have not pushed lynches other than yours, and I'm not asking you to look for instances of me doing so. What's on your shoulders is the substantiation of a claim that you're making that my reads aren't fleshed out with reasoning, i.e. you have the burden of proof since by accusing me you're saying you have knowledge of the specific events that you're referring to. This is common sense.

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You're assuming I have perfect memory of your posts in a 2500+ post thread? Wow. Look, I might have gone through the thread more than once, but aside from the initial read, it was an ISO on you (back when the thread was under 1000 posts), and a partial ISO to check your questions quality.

Anyway, if you'll recall I did ask about video, but since I wasn't getting an answer from you, why ask for something else only to be ignored?

I wonder why I'd suspect you for voting me with an OMGUS and then accusing me of OMGUSing. You're right, my accusation just doesn't line up. (Editor's Note: The previous two sentences were in jest.)

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Right. Show me where I think you're scummy for my case on you. I've addressed it and given the scum motivation behind it, sure, but in general it's actually an exception to the reasons I think you're scummy. And don't try to deny you think I'm scummy due to my tunneling on me.

Hopefully my recent VG post in response to you has answered your concerns.

Good****ingnight.

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Done. FINALLY.

So Nich, when Nabe flips town you just want to be exonerated because you pushed his lynch so hard right?

I'm glad you think I'm scummy for pushing Swiss (who hasn't flipped yet mind you) because if I wasn't voting him, I'd be voting you.

Reyth, when Nabe flips scum I'm going to be vindicated. If he flips town, I'll take the consequences. By the way, when he does flip scum, I assume you just want to be exonerated because you defended his case so hard right?

He won't flip scum Nich.

If he does, are you prepared to take the consequences? After all, since you're so confident he's town you should have nothing to worry about, right?

I'm concerned because I see a townie getting lynched.

There are much better candidates than Nabe.

^but... like... who... for you? You don't come across as very urgent in convincing people to switch to a better choice if last page about furniture is anything to go by =/



when is the deadline?
_

Nabe said:

Not the best analogy. If you know there's a shark in the water, you don't go in the water at all. But the game being the water, the players are already in it. And the shark in our scenario is a thinking person hiding amongst the others.

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^a lot of this is irrelevant to what our analogy insists Grey's original reasoning is here. Grey's justified reasoning is here. The analogy is nothing short of spectaculoso Wii're thinking that no victim should crumb flavour pertaining to their killer, right? So in light of Grey's reasoning, what do you think of our thoughts? Do you agree/disagree? I'm unclear as to what your stance is on the issue.

Wii're also interested in your option c) - why would you expect an indy killer to crumb the way Jpeg did in that situation?

Nabe said:

My points are... what I've said they are. If you don't contribute, then I don't have actions to take as town or scum, so kindly don't vilify me for that.

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Wii don't think you should be THAT vilified - you described us as scummy/garbage etc... accusatory words -> when wii analysed in finer details, this looked to be based on a single event from page 4 with a side salad of nothing else you can remember. Can you see why wii're concerned? The read looks too quaint amongst hundreds of other actions left to analyse, which are dumped as null and in the void. You're proving yourself either lazy or in need of talking drivel

Btw could you link us to your most recent page 4 reasoning on us so wii can show you why it's an off read in a bid to not repeat ourselves?

Nabe said:

See my response to July.

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This is an issue then - it looks selective because you've accounted for a mistake wii made but never accounted for the mistake Degrey made in the wording of their role pm when Raziek "messed up". You've accounted that our role is partially confirmed and ready to be confirmed moreso, but you never accounted for Grey retracting an ability that pertained perfectly to the flavour of Hermione [which begs the question - what else is it capable of conjuring up?], and looked for a questionable crumb that attracts a killer hunting for said flavour! "On the face", our role SHOULD be better. It could be scum? Any role could be scum. "It feels like an OS role" though --> when you sleep tonight, suffocate yourself

Nabe said:

But none of those are defenses of Grey at all, lol. 2252 is even the opposite, it's me doubting Grey, made obvious by the posts that follow in which I thought he was calling me scum and asking me to substantiate his own scum read of me.

The "supported by" comment is there because what Reyth said is supported by what I said. It's self-explanatory. What response were you expecting here?

I've had doubts on DeGrey several times. In early game I had no clue what to make of him. More recently, 2252 which you pointed out. I don't understand how you'd come to a different conclusion.

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o i was talking moreso about having doubts than defences, which all quotes exhibit. Maybe you skimmed, again, bahaha The "supported by" comment: wii expected you to say nothing - reyth was conveying his points well here, your comment just looked subsidiary... like it plodded along to ensure any air of doubt on grey wasn't breathed.

#2252 "makes sense" of grey's questionable actions despite him saving someone you think is a potential killer... -> Yes you did ask him if it was necessary... yet in the post above that you explain to jpeg how his actions were necessary in their town-driven motivation >___> Him pushing our gov claim as a fake gov claim would have been answered by your explanation to jpeg also. The only thing you questioned here, really... was his negative response to you... anyone would be anxious over that.

Nabe said:

I know what you're getting at, haha. You're right, I don't see a motive for mafia to do what VG did when it's laid out all orderly in a list like that (kudos to the list-maker). But I still find him scummy, so I suppose I'm leaning killer.

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curiously if you were wrong about nich and jpeg, who would you look into?

Nabe said:

Overt hydra disagreement? I'd actually be really content to see you fry.

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I would too, actually, but not based on the disagreement. Still, what about their disagreement made you feel certain in your decision to fry them? Was this the turning point that made them jump to scum #2?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13145598&postcount=2709

Can you please please link your references in a game this big?
_

videogames.jpg said:

Also Kat, i can't remember our exact nabe stance but i remember it leaning on the townside, its null now

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Wii didn't catch this - ^what caused you to think less of Nabe at that time? detailz detailz plz!
_

I think the case on nabe is simples to us: dodgy reads / dodgy reasoning to explain said reads / clings to ooooold actions as a basis for his reads [no sense of reassurance in looking at other actions it seems] / looks set in stone despite lecturing people about alternate perspectives and using THAT to explain why they're wrong (poor July =D ) / interprets and interacts with grey oddly favourably which irks us but this is mere observation - makes us think he knows something underlying about him or is sheltering behind him [Mr PA Man O Man ] / explains what is scummy [e.g. #???: good, #???: have my babies #???: etc etc etc etc...] but must be pushed to explain the how and the why behind it / Swiss vote is one of survival - wii'll hazard a guess and say it boils down to a vote on anyone but himself. Plus President Nich stated he is "really, REALLY sure"... <- This is a good D1 lynch across the board IOO. Jpeg/Grey are also good lynches toDay I would support both. Soup is very cautious about Ran and of course there's PLSD...or lack of him.

The case on swiss is simples:




























bahaha

wii need a vote count!

I am on record at this moment:

I do not like Nabe's scum list at all. I do not like his push of SK at all. I like SK's case on him and need to see his defense.