The Unity Ruleset: Discussion

popsofctown · Sep 23, 2011

Mew2King said:
that means you support this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0r0DkNiqxc

LGL should exist regardless of MK existing or not

(same for increased timer, same for getting rid of RC/Brinstar)

Yes, I absolutely do support DK's 90-10 matchup on Olimar. The same way I support D3's 90-10 matchup on DK.

I actually practiced the infinite just the other day in a casual. I was playing D3, my friend tried picking DK. I 0-deathed him 3 times and two stocked him.
If that were a lesser player's DK, I suppose I would have won over and over all evening. Unfortunately for me, the guy I was playing with did something amazingly pro: he switched to another character. I was like omigod. Moving your character select chip in between games?? I need to post this AT to smashboards seriously. He beat me with Game and Watch.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Sep 23, 2011

Mew2King said:
that means you support this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0r0DkNiqxc

LGL should exist regardless of MK existing or not

(same for increased timer, same for getting rid of RC/Brinstar)

Funny how around the middle to end he figured out a way to stop it yet stopped doing it, Fsmash.

Olimar has answers he didn't use them like he could have.

TheSlothStyle · Sep 23, 2011

Red Ryu said:
Funny how around the middle to end he figured out a way to stop it yet stopped doing it, Fsmash.

Olimar has answers he didn't use them like he could have.

You have a valid point, but what if he wasn't Olimar? Can't almost all characters do what Will's Donkey Kong could? It doesn't seem to hard for anybody to do. :/

Rob_Gambino · Sep 23, 2011

banning mk would make a relatively boring game even more boring.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Sep 23, 2011

TheSlothStyle said:
You have a valid point, but what if he wasn't Olimar? Can't almost all characters do what Will's Donkey Kong could? It doesn't seem to hard for anybody to do. :/

Most of the cast if not all has an answer. Some characters are bad at answering it but even then they do have viable answers.

Rob_Gambino said:
banning mk would make a relatively boring game even more boring.

A lot of character cannot viably plank at all, Pit and G&W are the only few who can viably do it if at all. And even then there are answers to it.

ElDominio · Sep 23, 2011

TheSlothStyle said:
I highly disagree. :/

By seeing the fact that you're flattered that The Great M2K talked to "the little guy" and you drank his "proof" like Kool-Aid, I call meatriding.

LGL's are as unnecessary as anything. In fact, just having them makes Brawl 30x more of a joke

TheSlothStyle · Sep 23, 2011

Red Ryu said:
Most of the cast if not all has an answer. Some characters are bad at answering it but even then they do have viable answers.

A lot of character cannot viably plank at all, Pit and G&W are the only few who can viably do it if at all. And even then there are answers to it.

Oh. Okay. I thought so.

TheSlothStyle · Sep 23, 2011

ElDominio said:
By seeing the fact that you're flattered that The Great M2K talked to "the little guy" and you drank his "proof" like Kool-Aid, I call meatriding.

LGL's are as unnecessary as anything. In fact, just having them makes Brawl 30x more of a joke

Wait... So you're against a LGL, but you want Metaknight banned like me? How does that make sense? :/

popsofctown · Sep 23, 2011

ElDominio said:
By seeing the fact that you're flattered that The Great M2K talked to "the little guy" and you drank his "proof" like Kool-Aid, I call meatriding.

This is the kind of flaming that makes smashboards suck. Really unnecessary, and you don't even know whether sloth honestly came to agree with M2K due to the strength of his arguments.

SaveMeJebus · Sep 23, 2011

ElDominio said:
By seeing the fact that you're flattered that The Great M2K talked to "the little guy" and you drank his "proof" like Kool-Aid, I call meatriding.

LGL's are as unnecessary as anything. In fact, just having them makes Brawl 30x more of a joke

Not true. Just read to comments in the matches that were posted

TheSlothStyle · Sep 23, 2011

popsofctown said:
This is the kind of flaming that makes smashboards suck. Really unnecessary, and you don't even know whether sloth honestly came to agree with M2K due to the strength of his arguments.

Yeah! I'm still open about having or not having a LGL. Both sides really have good points. I just assumed that M2K doesn't come here often. Also, it's kind of cool to talk to someone who's obviously good at the game regardless if he uses Metaknight or not. I just want to get involved with my community. Is that so bad?

popsofctown · Sep 23, 2011

It's not. People are mean.

Hold on a sec and I'll grab a Twinkie post that explains why disliking LGL and wanting MK banned are tied together.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13376599&postcount=102

That one.

TheSlothStyle · Sep 23, 2011

popsofctown said:
It's not. People are mean.

Hold on a sec and I'll grab a Twinkie post that explains why disliking LGL and wanting MK banned are tied together

That sounds good.

popsofctown · Sep 23, 2011

I editted it in.

TheSlothStyle · Sep 23, 2011

popsofctown said:
I editted it in.

LOL! I'm a n00b here. Where is it?

popsofctown · Sep 23, 2011

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13376599&postcount=102

TheSlothStyle · Sep 23, 2011

popsofctown said:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13376599&postcount=102

Hmm... That actually makes sense. Do most players in tournaments like Will (As SaveMeJebus pointed out) abuse planking that badly or is it just Will?

TheSlothStyle · Sep 23, 2011

Twinkie said:
I don't think the LGL should exist at all.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13376599&postcount=102

I apologize if I seemed rude and short. I'm still new to why the LGL is good/bad.

popsofctown · Sep 23, 2011

Numerous players plank with Meta Knight when it's allowed. I would. Planking with other characters happens rarely at the tournament level, which is why the Rich brown v Will example gets reused a lot.

TheSlothStyle · Sep 23, 2011

popsofctown said:
Numerous players plank with Meta Knight when it's allowed. I would. Planking with other characters happens rarely at the tournament level, which is why the Rich brown v Will example gets reused a lot.

Hmm... That's interesting.

-Ran · Sep 24, 2011

I've read every post in this thread. I have no comments due to the nature of the discussions that are taking place.

Ghostbone · Sep 24, 2011

TheSlothStyle said:
Hmm... That actually makes sense. Do most players in tournaments like Will (As SaveMeJebus pointed out) abuse planking that badly or is it just Will?

There's hardly ever no LGL, so nobody's ever able to abuse it.

John12346 · Sep 24, 2011

Guys, it doesn't matter whether or not LGL is a competitively sound rule. When you consider two points, it's obvious the LGL is a direct nerf towards MK.

Reduced LGL of 35 + MK caused LGLs to come into existence in the first place...

Omni · Sep 24, 2011

You must have never been planked by a G&W before.

DMG · Sep 24, 2011

I was

Then I farted on him

John12346 · Sep 24, 2011

Me too

Grabbed the ledge, invinci-Nair stagespike

Omni · Sep 24, 2011

@John: You clearly don't know what frame perfect G&W planking entails or you'd know you can't ledge snap unless you GIMR's weird shield DI thing. Even then it's difficult as hell.

DMG said:
I was

Then I farted on him

Ah, you used a move that grants super armor, does redonkulous damage/knockback, and pushes you back up to safety.

I guess that's what Snake, Diddy, Falco, DDD, Olimar, <insert retardedly large amount of characters that can't safely deal with G&W's planking> should do, too.

John12346 · Sep 24, 2011

OR, I could just go offstage and be close enough to the ledge to ledgesnap when GaW lets go, giving me the ledge on Frame 1 after GaW's release...

DMG · Sep 24, 2011

I used the non full fart, that has no super armor

I was joking btw. I agree with you that G^W planking is hard to beat. However, it's not "impossible", it just approaches a level that requires the other guy to do quite a lot in a certain order to beat something that's fairly "mundane" to perform (planking)

Omni · Sep 24, 2011

John12346 said:
OR, I could just be offstage and close enough to the ledge to ledgesnap when GaW lets go, giving me the ledge on Frame 1 after GaW's release...

...What? That's not even possible considering G&W's n-air reaches above and into he stage after releasing the ledge.

Ghostbone · Sep 24, 2011

Omni said:
@John: You clearly don't know what frame perfect G&W planking entails or you'd know you can't ledge snap unless you GIMR's weird shield DI thing. Even then it's difficult as hell.

Why not? There's easily enough time if he drops down to up-b.

Oh and John#s scenario is easily possible, the problem is G&W could just hold onto the ledge in that situation....

Omni · Sep 24, 2011

ghostbone said:
Why not? There's easily enough time if he drops down to up-b.

*sigh*

I'm going back to sleep. It's obvious that you guys (cept DMG) have no clue what G&W planking entails. He has two moves:

- N-air, which reaches into anyone standing on the stage.
- U-air, which pushes anyone up who's attempting to auto-snap the ledge from above. Invinci-nair will still destroy anyone attempting this

G&W's planking is godly. I've dealt with it first hand and experimented with several characters trying to beat it. It's never worth it.

John12346 · Sep 24, 2011

Omni, it works like this.

GaW grabs the ledge. He lags for 40 frames or something.
During this period of time, I'm free to go ahead offstage and get really close to the ledge.
When GaW goes to input his ledgedropped DJ Nair, I grab the ledge one frame after GaW releases.
GaW Nair lasts long enough for me to get off the ledge before his move concludes.
...Invincible punish!

Unfortunately, this doesn't work on MK because he inputs ledgedropped Uairs, so he can just float around under/away from the stage afterwards to allow your invincibility to wear off first, which sucks >___>;

Omni · Sep 24, 2011

John12346 said:
Omni, it works like this.

GaW grabs the ledge. He lags for 40 frames or something.
During this period of time, I'm free to go ahead offstage and get really close to the ledge.
When GaW goes to input his ledgedropped DJ Nair, I grab the ledge one frame after GaW releases.

Simple stuff.

Dude.

N-air's hit-box is a huge circle ABOVE his head. And it comes out retardedly fast.
U-air comes out in almost the same frames and does a great job completely eliminating what you're referring to.

You're theorycrafting. It doesn't work. At least concede to the fact that you're just theorycrafting and that you've never actually tried to apply this. Then go ahead and try to apply it to someone who knows how to plank properly with G&W and be like, "Oh, well, this doesn't work."

Ghostbone · Sep 24, 2011

John12346 said:
Omni, it works like this.

GaW grabs the ledge. He lags for 40 frames or something.
During this period of time, I'm free to go ahead offstage and get really close to the ledge.
When GaW goes to input his ledgedropped DJ Nair, I grab the ledge one frame after GaW releases.
GaW Nair lasts long enough for me to get off the ledge before his move concludes.
...Invincible punish!

Somehow I don't see this working.

I grab the ledge as G&W
You run off
I hold on and you fall past? >.>
Unless Lucario falls slow enough that he's always in a position to grab the ledge between when G&W can drop off and he loses invincibility.

DMG · Sep 24, 2011

No.

Characters lag for 25-26 when grabbing the edge. They can't grab the edge again for another 20+ frames once they let go of the edge.

Are we gonna have to go over this again?

The only things noteworthy are:

1. You can grab the edge from G^W as he drops, before any aerial comes out

2. He loses invincibility before any of his aerials end, so you can punish him afterwards (hard to do, but some characters can do it)

John12346 · Sep 24, 2011

Ghost, at that point, it all just turns into theorycraft. Undoubtedly, I have the option to mixup between an aerial or staying near the ledge, but at that point, it turns into a battle of mindgames, y'feel me?

Ghostbone · Sep 24, 2011

John12346 said:
Ghost, at that point, it all just turns into theorycraft. Undoubtedly, I have the option to mixup between an aerial or staying near the ledge, but at that point, it turns into a battle of mindgames, y'feel me?

Indeed.

It's not unbeatable like Omni is trying to make it seem like, but it's certainly powerful.

John12346 · Sep 24, 2011

Well, yeah, but is it bannable? Excluding MK's, of course. >.>;

And Omni, I don't think you get what we're trying to say. Just go into Training mode. Have "Character A" grab the ledge. Have "Character B" go offstage and be right next to the ledge. Make "Character A" perform a ledgedrop(don't use any of the getup options because that won't work). "Character B" will IMMEDIATELY grab the ledge, and get all of that ledge invincibility on the VERY FIRST FRAME after "Character A" releases the ledge.

fkacyan · Sep 24, 2011

This entire discussion feels like one of those "Let's talk about banning it when it starts winning" things.

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