Mr Wizzrobe
Smash Journeyman
This thread is starting to get kind of frustrating. This much arguing about Melee in one thread is bad for the soul.
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What does it take to be banned?
- Thread starter Violence
- Start date
40secondz
Smash Apprentice
Agreed. We should never argue about Melee.
Mr Wizzrobe
Smash Journeyman
At this point I am absolutely convinced that Kal is a robot.
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
you were saying?
edit:I've always wondered what the melee version of this graph would look like. Would fox take everybody's money or falco?
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Acryte
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2005
- Messages
- 986
Im against mkban but you do realize that the less representation makes the figures even worse right? Like if mk wins that much of the money but was represented by only 5% of players that would be an incredibly startling statistic. But damn, if that is an accurate graph heh 2beast
Also I really want to see a melee version of that graph. Imo melee gets decent representation, even cosmo been pullin monies for zelda
Also I really want to see a melee version of that graph. Imo melee gets decent representation, even cosmo been pullin monies for zelda
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
JPOBS
Smash Hero
Thats like trying to tell me Canada has a bigger population than India because canada has a higher GDP.
you were saying?
edit:I've always wondered what the melee version of this graph would look like. Would fox take everybody's money or falco?
absolutely ********.
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
Actually it does relate because he does get picked the most.
Data was collected and posted months ago
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295425
Data was collected and posted months ago
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295425
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Oh noes!
A character is being used a lot.
What bunch of ****ing bunk to base the criterion for banning him off of. I wish the Brawl community would focus on the fact that Metaknight arguably "breaks" their game, not based on how much money he makes or how often he's used.
Smooth Criminal
A character is being used a lot.
What bunch of ****ing bunk to base the criterion for banning him off of. I wish the Brawl community would focus on the fact that Metaknight arguably "breaks" their game, not based on how much money he makes or how often he's used.
Smooth Criminal
The first point is a good one... But also I'd be really interested in the melee graph aswell!Im against mkban but you do realize that the less representation makes the figures even worse right? Like if mk wins that much of the money but was represented by only 5% of players that would be an incredibly startling statistic. But damn, if that is an accurate graph heh 2beast
Also I really want to see a melee version of that graph. Imo melee gets decent representation, even cosmo been pullin monies for zelda
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
It's a known fact that mk is broken. Rules had to be invented to keep him in the game. If the rules weren't invented then mk would literally be untouchable.
Cape glitch plus unlimited planking.
edit:seriously I want to see a melee graph. I already know fox and falco would take more than half anyway, but it would still be cool to see. plus kirbykaze if you're going to say brawl has crappy characters then you should acknowledge melee's crappy characters.
we all know how good pichu, kirby, and bowser are
MuraRengan
Banned via Warnings
Pichu is a ****ing monster.
Btw, even if Fox and Falco take the most money, it's probably just because most pleyers like spacies. Unlike Metaknight, they aren't as centralizing in the overview of the metagame and are definitely beatable.
Btw, even if Fox and Falco take the most money, it's probably just because most pleyers like spacies. Unlike Metaknight, they aren't as centralizing in the overview of the metagame and are definitely beatable.
Black Mantis
Smash Hero
I still wouldn't mind seeing a chart to see who does what in Melee though.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Cape glitch is stalling and there are already rules for that in place.
Planking? Unbeatable? Has the Brawl community truly proven this? What about DMG's experiment all those moons ago where he established that while it wasn't truly unbeatable it was just really good? Doesn't Logic's Anti-Planking work at all?
And I think Melee players acknowledge the fact that their game has its own demerits. I think Brawl players have a harder time owning up to their own game's, however.
Smooth Criminal
Oracle
Smash Master
Go make one from the tournament results, or just one tournament. I would do one for genesis 2 but i don't know all of the melee players' mains or any of the brawl players'
-ShadowPhoenix-
Smash Bash
Banning him still wasnt the answer.
They implemented rules, but they were obviously not strong enough.
Melee has had various stages banned primarily due to the kill power/ability to camp that Fox has on them
Corneria
Green Greens
Onett
PokeFloats
the brawls scrubs should have made their stage list smaller and increased the timer...
seriously the brawl ruleset has like 346345 stages to choose from wtf
MuraRengan
Banned via Warnings
MK's planking is similar to the banned Melee stages that Fox could infinite/camp on: Not unbeatable, but far too big of an advantage than should be allowed.
In general, MK's advantages venture into the "too big to be allowed" department, which is why perspectives on the issue vary. His attributes are what lead to scrooging and his ridiculous camping game, and considering that Brawl is a campy game already, it must really mean something when the community says one particular character is too campy.
In general, MK's advantages venture into the "too big to be allowed" department, which is why perspectives on the issue vary. His attributes are what lead to scrooging and his ridiculous camping game, and considering that Brawl is a campy game already, it must really mean something when the community says one particular character is too campy.
OH GOD NO. timing out is already a laughably pitiful strategy. Making the timer any longer might prevent tournaments from ever ending. As for stages, IIRC the Brawl ruleset has 9 stages total. Decreasing that would put it close to Melee, which has 7. In case you're unaware of Brawl's scene, stage really doesn't matter for MK, he has an advantage on all of them. They even made Caste Seige a starter simply because MK couldn't ***** as hard there.
-ShadowPhoenix-
Smash Bash
i really love this post
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
See, and with a little more data, something like this would be very influential in changing my opinion.
(You're not a complete buttpirate, Mura.)
Instead the Brawl community wants to focus on really stupid **** like how much money the character makes and/or how often he's used. They also wanna say stupid **** like "he has the perfect recovery."
Smooth Criminal
MuraRengan
Banned via Warnings
There's a lot of data and logic based on game stats fundamentally behind his banning. Funny thing is, most Brawl players are unaware of it themselves. I know a little bit about it by virtue of the fact that I hang out with people who play Brawl and actually care about Metaknight banning. If you wanted a good, objective summary of why Metaknight is being banned from a good source, you should ask Ran Iji. He knows a ton about it. I'll try to summon him.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
I would actually love to hear Ran's take on all of this. I respect his opinion immensely.
Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal
Personally, I think that the pro-banners jumped the gun.... by about 4 years....
Melee's been developing for, what, 11 years now? I think that Brawl is up to about 3. That's... hardly long enough to justify banning a HUGE character in the game.
Now, I HATE mk. He's a stupid, campy puff-on-steroids who barely has to blink to kill you (or perhaps that's my ragequits...huh...) That said, there have been notable advances in combating him (i.e. anti-planking and other ledge mechanics). Maybe another year would have brought to light an actual flaw in mk's game.
Of course, this goes the other way. Waiting too long to ban him will just garner more mk users, and then there's a bigger fight to be had.
What does this have to do with the topic of banning in melee? ... I guess nothing... it just wouldn't have ever happened to my precious melee.
Melee's been developing for, what, 11 years now? I think that Brawl is up to about 3. That's... hardly long enough to justify banning a HUGE character in the game.
Now, I HATE mk. He's a stupid, campy puff-on-steroids who barely has to blink to kill you (or perhaps that's my ragequits...huh...) That said, there have been notable advances in combating him (i.e. anti-planking and other ledge mechanics). Maybe another year would have brought to light an actual flaw in mk's game.
Of course, this goes the other way. Waiting too long to ban him will just garner more mk users, and then there's a bigger fight to be had.
What does this have to do with the topic of banning in melee? ... I guess nothing... it just wouldn't have ever happened to my precious melee.
both players have the right to choose characters who they think maximize their chance of success in the FIRST game. if you are a better player, you will win an unfavorable character matchup, and if you don't then you can counterpick. if you think the matchup is even, take them to a stage you feel more comfortable on. i don't see any other solution for the infinite loop of stage counterpick and character selection, besides not being able to change your character from the first game at all and only counterpicking stages or vice versa, both of which are staling moves for melee itself.
kevo
Smash Journeyman
Good. He can come back to Melee.
imag
Smash Rookie
M2K speaks the truth and Alphazealot is not nice
Mew2King
King of the Mews
This guy summarized everything PERFECTLY
it's not about what's right or wrong. It's simply catering to a majority, and since the VAST majority of people don't use MK, assuming each person has equal bias (MK players for it and pro bans against it to help them) it is still heavily going to be more for the ban than it should really be otherwise. By doing things this way (Majority wins over all), Unity will always be in power, even if their way of doing things isn't a compromise at all. It's pretty unfortunate how it really works, since being in the majority is all that matters.
Mew2King should pull a Scorp a Dorp but take it to the next step. He should main the second best character (which I think is Snake) and play in tournaments that run the Unity rule set in a disguise.
DO IT.
DO IT.
Might backfire if they start banning Snake too, though.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
The "Fox and Falco = Half of competitive Melee" is such an exaggeration. We've done the tournament statistics thing before for top 32, top 48, etc. And while they've been the dominant faces, it's very rarely anything outstandingly ridiculous.It's a known fact that mk is broken. Rules had to be invented to keep him in the game. If the rules weren't invented then mk would literally be untouchable.
Cape glitch plus unlimited planking.
edit:seriously I want to see a melee graph. I already know fox and falco would take more than half anyway, but it would still be cool to see. plus kirbykaze if you're going to say brawl has crappy characters then you should acknowledge melee's crappy characters.
we all know how good pichu, kirby, and bowser are
My argument isn't centered at all on the bottom tier characters. Rather, my observation that there really isn't much of a power difference between the space animals and the next best characters. Conversely, MK makes the next bunch of characters look like crap even after the ruleset has been specifically designed to nerf him to the point where he's "balanced". Melee... we don't really have that issue. Sheik is still about as playable as Fox. I'd argue she might be better for this metagame since she's better vs Falco (IMHO) and Falco's the flavour of the month, but what do I know?
Master WGS
Smash Lord
I can't wait for a masked Brawl player entering Unity Rules tournaments and winning with Snake, and years later, we discover it was M2K all along.
THAT would put Brawl on the map if nutso things like that were happening in the community, even if the game itself is a drag.
THAT would put Brawl on the map if nutso things like that were happening in the community, even if the game itself is a drag.
Aside from your trolling/uneducated'ness of the current melee metagame, why is this an argument about what character takes most the tourney money rather than the brokenness of said character?
you were saying?
edit:I've always wondered what the melee version of this graph would look like. Would fox take everybody's money or falco?
^
Gold post of this Thread
Mike G
Mr.Jackpot
Smash Lord
This thread converted me to anti MK ban.
MasterShake
Smash Lord
It's sad because I'm fairly sure the maker of that graph created it just out of curiosity and not have it incorrectly interpreted by whiny barwlers.