Social C. Falcon Social

True
Just saying

Anything can combo into almost anything with bad di/decision making on their part
But yes you should never expect it

Where da Big House writeup @?

i need to do it when im inspired

like when im sitting in class bored

now that im back home i..

EDIT:

Question for s2j:

Awhile back, iirc, you mentioned you changed up your style from playing very gay (campy defensive style-50million nairs) to trying to outsmart and straight up beat your opponent. I also recently followed through the "approaching is bad" thread created by hax. Do you agree or disagree with hax? Why did you change your style, did you think it's a better style overall or did you hate playing that way?

hmmm

approaching is bad if you do it wrong, but can pay off if you do it right

it's way easier to just camp and win though, but not for me personally

my opinion is that hbox is so accustomed to people camping (mostly fox) that it actually helps him when people camp, but approaching is also extremely tough that if you do it incorrectly you will eat a rest or get gimped

look at mango vs hbox at genesis 2, hbox got pooped on extremely hard by an extremely aggressive mango

--

i changed my style mostly because its funner, and it works better for me overall. if i actually dash dance camp i'll just do a lot worse and I get impatient, want to press buttons all day, and feel like an ashole. i'm still fairly defensive though through move spamming

also, vs some character matchups, being pressure heavy pays off really well, like vs doc/samus

other characters you can't be full on aggressive you can do 'aggressive' camping, just keep a zone in front of them. I actually am overly aggressive vs tink in the midwest and i almost got pwned for it.


thing is though i live in the west coast, where the top players do not camp, lovage is aggressive, mango is aggressive, lucky is aggressive when he doesn't want to play ghey, macd is aggressive, fly also knows when to approach too, eddy mexico approaches, etcetcetc

i'm probably one of the more defensive west coast players

i've never really played truly abusive gay camping **** that hax probably has to put up with every tourney

kels is one of the gheyest players i played with in the midwest who would absolutely not approach ever or even get off the edge when i'm next to it, and it worked. I lost like 75% of my friendlies with him.

so, i don't think camping is 100% better, people still make enough mistakes/ still have enough mixups currently that smart aggression will still work. and i think its way funner if you are constantly fighting extremely close next to each other, i love doing like 3-4 clanks in a row then beating them

Kels is notoriously lame vs falcon. We harrass him about it all the time.

I have my own theory on approaching, but i havent fleshed it out enough in my mind to publish it yet.


Still waiting for big house write up. My mind is eager to absorb ur knowledge johnny. Do not deny meeeeeeeeeeee.

is there a proper way to do an AC bair? i really want to incorporate it but i cant do it >.< hitting someone's shield as a bait and then djing right away would be so ****

Jump then do the Bair as soon as you leave the ground, fastfall like normal unless you frame perfect fastfall all the time, in which case wait a frame

I'ts like alright for spacing people out because of how lagless it is, but they can actually just run right under you (although that problem exists for basically all of Falcon's aerials so whatever)

Not really
Nair/Dair/Fair all get pretty low pretty fast

Johnny: I actually noticed you stopped nairing as much. I felt weird when you suddenly like, stomp uair knee'd me in a friendly, didn't quite seem like the usual. I guess you changed up your style.

I also noticed that when you spaced nair vs Duck, he ftilted you out of it. I'm pretty sure no one else found that significant, but that was pretty mindblowing for me. I had no idea I could outspace spaced nair, that used to just make everything feel so ridiculously hard. What made you stop nairing as much? Oscar mentioned something about your nair phase.

I feel like the way Kels was camping is just a gimmick, I watched it happen, and it just looks similar to M2K ledge shenanigans, once you can get around it, it's free. I still feel like approaching is the answer in Melee.

0Room said:

Not really
Nair/Dair/Fair all get pretty low pretty fast

Click to expand...

They really don't when you're up against Fox ... you have to catch him jumping to hit him with the first part of Nair and Fair and Dair are quite slow

They're pretty good defensive moves if you run back while doing them, but if you're just like doing them in place Fox will just run right under them

That's true
Though I think that standing in one place and doing an aerial is rarely good in general

Pretty good for baiting but that's about it

Meh
I've just had Fox / Marth run under my aerials too many times

i'll do my writeup when juggledude uploads the vids

BIG house

Big House was an amazing tournament, definitely top 3 for me. I love the midwest as a whole just because they are willing to travel hours upon hours to meet up at a smash tourney just cuz melee is a **** *** game. Now why can't socal do that for a 2 hour drive?!!?!??!?

Firstly, though, i'll talk about before the tourney. I'm tempted to do a chillin dude style of history of a smasher but I'll save all that for later, especially since my beginnings are pretty boring compared to most

Juggleguy invited me and Oscar to the tourney. I was 50/50 on going up until the week of the tourney

i went cuz *** school and grades

==

At least 12 people though msged me or told me in person that they thought I was a favorite to win.

Looking at who was going, Kirbykaze, Kels, Unknown, RaynEX, Vanz and west coast players lovage, sfat, i'd say I had a chance, but not an especially big chance of winning. I'd say the biggest person to upset me was Dart because he is a ghey abusive marth and counters my style

I'd say my #1 favorite to win was kirbykaze, then lovage/vanz, then unknown/me/sfat/kels.

I flew with lovage, we slept with chicago (Vro, Tink, Rat, Kels) at juggleguys house as well as norcal dudes (tafokints, sfat, violence although violence is living in canada atm) WE really shoulda slept since it was 2 am~ and we had to go with juggleguy to the venue at 9 am

smashfest happened + and some mudder ****er kept snoring like a ****ing ***** through the NIGHT. HIS SNORES WEREN'T EVEN CONSISTENT AND CHANGED EVERY 4 SECONDS. OMFGG. and i lost the smashfest tourney for the couch by losing to Rat.

I was pretty disappointed with how I was playing at the smashfest. I couldn't do what I wanted to do pretty much and its one of the most frustrating feelings in smash. I just hoped I wouldn't play like poop the day after, but having so little sleep wasn't reassuring

So I slept roughly 30 min- 1 hour before heading to the venue

==

playwise though, I felt alright at the moment.

Doubles went smoothly. Our gameplan is I stocktank and occasionally **** someone while oscar goes to work and we help each other out when we are in trouble. It's a slightly abusive strategy. I usually live to 180+, usually because oscar will firefox save when i can't make it back. Our strategy pretty much works unless our opponents are way better than us/ way better teamwork/ or have an extremely gay team comp.

Vs Idea/Riddlebox, I get bored of puff trying to recover so i try to stomp him to make it end quicker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6bBBn5gMLA#t=7m59s

other than that, pretty smooth flying

until we face team CANADIAN HOMOES, or Unknown722 and Raynex where double fox hard counters fox+falcon and probably many other teams. ( i like canada so don't take it serious)

Since they are both very good and competent players, we lost pretty badly in winners finals. Sometimes I literally can't move around because there are 2 foxes in my grill who mixup nair+shine+bair+grab, etc. One is hard enough but 2 is really gay. Oscar often has to deal with 2 foxes too after they smack me around then go double team him. I felt pretty helpless overall. Like average damage I do was 200 and average damage taken was 600. we lost..

Grand finals turned around and we face unknown and raynex again. We try yoshis first to try something new, and double fox is up in my azzz again. we're down 0-1. Our only hope was big stages pretty much, so we went to dreamland where I can actually not get but ***** by double fox and help oscar by not getting but *****

This set is pretty insane, we both did miraculous saves, I did a 1v2 comeback (i think), and thanks to big stages we manage to actually win set 1 of grand finals 3-2. Set 2 of grand finals was when we started figuring them out, raynex, who i think is the scar of fox, starts suiciding, and things started going bad for team canada. I'd say its a combination of me and oscar figuring them out and their team chemistry falling apart. We win 3-1, pretty insane sets worth watching

I got ****ing tired after that, even with enough sleep that set woulda exhasuted me regardless

==

SINGLES:

Notable dude in my pool was Duck. It was recorded sadly only through livestream, but pretty hilarious set. Both matches were on dreamland. I picked dreamland mostly to figure Duck out. My style I use on hugo, which is mostly safe, unrelentless aggression worked pretty well on Duck.

He kept living to 160% each stock though, and Taki and Oscar kept saying " DO IT PUZZY" so half the time I flinged myself out there to try to hit him and missed at least 80% of the time, sometimes dying

Match 2 I banned FD, and I prayed he would pick a smaller stage, he picked dreamland again and with Taki and Oscar calling me a puzzy, I decided to keep trying to edgeguard him like a ******.

In the end, I won, but matches went longer then i wanted LOOOL

Singles Bracket:

First, played Vro in falcon dittos, I won 2-0. GGS

Then I played Drephen. When I used to be a youtube n00b back in 2005-2007, me and some buddies at school would talk about the sickest smashers of the day. Drephen was one of my favorites between my buddies and I and his combo vid, all this ***** do is grab is hilarious.

Yep.. drephen has a weird style. I beat him fairly convincingly though so I felt confident vs shiek for the rest of the day. Maybe too confident..

I also don't remember what I did, but apparently I did a sick combo that hopefully won over some midwest fans.

Next was Unknown522. First match- yoshis i beat him pretty well. I lose on FD (I coulda won but I messed up a tiny bit). 3rd match i lose 1 stock left...

From memory I'd say I wasn't really thinking during the match and just pressing buttons at the speed of light. Unknown played very well nevertheless. He rolled at least 50,000 times though in certain spots and I punished it only once though. Great set that deserves watching. I know I will so i can fix my n00b mistakes.

Losing so early on in bracket kinda crushed my spirits in getting top 3 in the tourney. I now had a deadly bracket to go through and I was extremely tired. For how cold Michigan was outside, the venue was pretty hot and I just wanted to sleep forever. My overall play was like 70-75% of my peak. My reflex time was off and just thinking during the match was really tiring.

==
First match in Losers was vs Tink. Tink, like Drephen, was another player I respected back in the MLG days. My first thoughts when playing him was.... PLZ DON"T GO MARTH PLZ GOD

he picked fox, i win pretty easily first match. 2nd match he goes shiek. Out of perhaps over confidence for pooping on Drephen and respect for Tink, I decide to not play like a homoe and play fairly rushdown. During this time, especially when Tink got some good reads on me, the entire crowd would go crazy. Personally, this was the first time I had a crowd against me. The crowd, the hot venue, my lack of sleep was getting to me. I choke away my lead game 2 when he reads me really well for like an entire stock and a half.

Game 3 was also very similar, I had a dominant lead, and slowly choke it away. Very last stock, I had more percentage but through sheer luck got a combo that allowed me win because Tink DI-ed in really hard

==
I felt that, compared to Tink, i was the better player. But I definitely did NOT deserve to win that set. I was pretty much given a 2nd chance and didn't want my luck to go to waste. At the very least, I wanted to show that I would have gotten farther than Tink and tried my hardest for the next series of matches. I thought about my rematch with Unknown if I made it that far. I didn't want to have a fluke win and then lose like a moron next match

All I can say that my next matches were also very lucky in my opinion. My next opponent was RaynEX. I was still shaken up from playing Tink but RaynEX, although he is a beast in most matchups, simply lacks Falcon experience. My somewhat autopilot play gets a win. I miss easy stuff but in the end it didn't matter. If Canada had a good Falcon main I'd say I'd probably lose.

Next opponent was Duck again. Falcon vs Samus is probably my best matchup. I was not in the mood to do a best of 5 because I was freakin tired and decided to get rid of Dreamland to avoid long matches in stage striking/ banning. I was also pretty confident because I felt I did good vs him in pools.

Well, Duck is not a dumb samus and went the right stages, FoD and FD. Banning Dreamland was pretty much a silly idea. But, Duck played extremely well. I am extremely used to HugS' style but the way he plays is also very good, just different. Some stuff hit me just because my reaction time was off by a little. Overall, I didn't feel in danger of losing the set. The set ended 3-1. I scraped most of my wins but I had a counterpick that would probably have sealed the deal for me.

HugS definitely has better grabs and up-bs, but imo Duck has extremely slightly better edgeguarding and overall better recovery and just faster/ takes more risks. HugS in practice is better, but Duck has what it takes to be extremely good.

Next opponent was Kirbykaze. Playing him in friendlies and going roughly 40-60, I'd say I was a minor favorite to LOSE. However, Kirbykaze was playing pretty off. I don't know if he was more tired/ stopped caring, but he didn't have his usual smart/efficient play and was getting hit by falcon shenanigans which he usually catches onto within a match or 2. I'll get a real set with him next time

Next opponent was VanZ, definitely the 2nd best peach after Armada. After playing a gauntlet of tourney matches, however, I was in the zone to do well. VanZ is an extremely dangerous peach and my best way to describe him, and Lovage agrees with me, is that he is a Peach version of HugS. VanZ is very technical*, extremely smart and adapts just like Hugo.

*(I know HugS isn't technical)

Before Genesis 2, I would probably have lost because I had a mindset where I am supposed to lose because I think someone is better than me. I think VanZ outclasses me by a tiny bit, but unlike my 2 previous horrible matches vs Armada, I decided not to play scared and instead just play my game.

Pretty close matches overall, I'm very impressed with how good VanZ is and think things just went my way. A lot of adaption and meta-gaming occured. Great set overall, sadly, but thankfully at the same time, it was only recorded on the stream.

Grand finals was me and lovage. We split, but put a 20 dollar money match on top of it. I try my hardest. Oscar poops on me. That's all I gotta say

====
Overall, I'm surprised I never faced Unknown again. I'm obviously happy with how I did, but don't feel like I completely deserve it just because I placed higher than someone who beat me in winners. I'm sad that Sfat, who I think is extremely good didn't do better but I think he'll do good next time.
====

So, great tourney. I never had a crowd cheer against me before, give sick coaching tips to my opponent mid-game, or make me laugh cuz of Taki who was always saying funny stuff behind me which I am completely fine with. I love the Midwest because they are willing to drive 6+ hours for a tourney. The fact that 110+ people came says a lot when only Socal/Norcal were the only people to come by plane.

So! When Juggleguy and his buddies uploads the vids, I encourage you guys to watch them all. Almost every match past quarters is a great set. I think none of them were a blowout. All of them are hype/exciting, just great matches overall. Great tourney, **** TO and his **** team that helped run it. I have no regrets coming even if I think I coulda done better on my tests/essays the following week ROFL

special shoutouts to Chris Curry, Tafokints, and other bROS for being absolute legit homeys

I'll do individual shoutouts in a bit in the thread, now go complain to robin (juggleguy) to upload vids faster


==

a lot of this will sound johning but I decided to be more candid

Good read.

I was so ****ing torn when u vs tink was happening. I wanted game 3 and then i shut-up while it was going on.

Im not so 100% on APEX anymore, but either way i hope were at the same tournament sometime soon.

U and lovage are still my favorite team to watch! I wish i lived in SoCal!

<3333

very nice read

edit: was that the first time you'd ever played vanz?

Awesome post S2J it was great to meet you and hang out there.

STREAM VODS! For those wanting to watch the action as it happened:
http://www.twitch.tv/peefsmash/b/298090515
http://www.twitch.tv/peefsmash/b/298135164

This is everything, I think singles starts around the 3rd split of the first video but im not sure. Perhaps S2J could sort out his games if he wants to watch them and tell us where they all start.

Niko45 said:

very nice read

edit: was that the first time you'd ever played vanz?

Click to expand...

ya first time

good stuff at that tourney s2j, you going to apex?

i wanna get a ****load of matches with you because I feel like you have a radically different style than hax

s2j said:

I'd say the biggest person to upset me was Dart because he is a ghey abusive marth and counters my style

Click to expand...

Nice write up S2J. I should totally start doing these, just for my own eyes at least. I had lots to say about ADVENT I.

Gay abusive Marth? I didn't see that.

Unknown got so mad at me for losing to you.

So I saw your match vs Unknown522

And all I have to say is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXauV32kSrI&t=01m50s

It's just all I heard in my head when I was watching you DD after dthrows and edgecancel your upBs

Linguini said:

good stuff at that tourney s2j, you going to apex?

i wanna get a ****load of matches with you because I feel like you have a radically different style than hax

Click to expand...

i'd say 80% gunna go

Watching S2J play at the Big House taught me more than all the falcon videos i've watched. I'm glad there is a top level falcon that plays a similar style that i do.

Hey S2J when you do an awesome write up like that could you post the page number of where the writeup is located in the thread title?
Cause I wish PP did that :/

Can't wait to see your sets vs VanZ and KK.

thanks for the words of encouragement....our matches were soo fun....i was glad to see u wernt playing madd lame, but then i kinda started to do it to try to win -_-....but the crowd really wanted the upset and i was feeling it heh.

i look forward to playing you more, and def get some friendlies in vs my falco/marth and my not choking fox -_-. itll give you a run for your money next time .

Just saw the match vs. Unknown. Really impressive from both sides, though I know you both messed stuff up.

Unknown is mad good at pressuring

So hype to watch S2J vs KK. I feel like I'm going to learn so much just from one set.

Metal Reeper said:

Hey S2J when you do an awesome write up like that could you post the page number of where the writeup is located in the thread title?
Cause I wish PP did that :/

Click to expand...

Pp does do that
Go to the first page all of them are indexed there

0Room said:

Pp does do that
Go to the first page all of them are indexed there

Click to expand...

Oops my bad. Thanks for pointing that out. Im gonna go read em now!

So S2J
I don't want you to take this the wrong way of course and I know that you play your way
But I also remember you saying that you remember all of the advice people tell you even if you agree with it

Both with Drephen and KK
You had a perfect opportunity to take the stock early
That being, you had them at ~80% and all you had to do was uthrow->knee

Now of course I'm not saying that you're bad for not doing this or anything
Just keep in mind that at 80%-90% at least
uthrow->knee is guaranteed

And the less time you give them to run around
The better off you are

So just something to think about, I dunno if you knew that or not when you went into those matches.

Edit;
Other than that I thought you did really well, made some smart decisions
also
THE **** IS THIS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI_0N7-C4ZM&feature=channel_video_title&t=04m35s
And that last combo was pretty sick

[maybe stepping over boundaries]
KirbyKaze's edgeguarding is pretty beast
but sometimes, KK, you go for silly things rather than what works

And what I mean by that is
Sometimes you add in too many hits
Less hits > More hits
Biggest example being here

I'm assuming you were going for a dtilt->a nair
Where as a dsmash would have worked just fine
And I totally understand why you did a dtilt [had you whiffed the dsmash you would have been punished hard]
But of course you understand what I'm getting at. Simple is always better than contrived, but again, you know that.

Also, sometimes I feel like you were afraid to hit S2J
Like here

Another time is right here [a testament to S2J's pressure game]

The last thing I want to know is, why did you go FD in the third game? Just wondering the mindset behind that

Obviously I'm not trying to say anything rude or anything like that
Just hoping to point out some things that might help both of you in the future

wtf double post?

I like FD vs Falcon because it cuts into his platform camp and you can do simple combos into inescapable edgeguards. His combos get a slight buff, I guess, but I generally feel Falcon benefits more from plats than vice versa because Falcon's up air and general air mobility uses them more effectively.

Regarding your video links:

Yeah, probably. I don't use down smash enough for edgeguarding. I just wanted to combo more but whatever, I should probably be more efficient.

I wanted to combo with the dair but he's smart and get-up attacks so dumb combos don't work. I should have just up aired. I'm not sure how you got "I'm afraid to hit him" when I'm trying to combo him... unless you mean the little exchange after that? In that case... I dunno. I probably should have up tilted when I was underneath him or something.

I don't think I could have attacked out of shield in that position. I naired out of shield and got kneed for it earlier in the match so I was trying to figure out the timings for some evasive stuff out of shield but I didn't learn fast enough.

Well I said "afraid to hit him" because you went above him with the dair
and if you had been a little faster you would have hit him but you went sideways
Which seemed strange to me

Of course you know way more than I do what was going on in your head
Just wanted to

Actually the first link was at a wrong time, here's the fixed version

Sorry about that
And that's an interesting perspective about Falcon using platforms better
Really interesting actually

But yeah
Again
Didn't mean anything by it just wanted to bring it up and talk about it
You played really well and I respect you a lot and it was cool to watch your matches.

0Room said:

So S2J
I don't want you to take this the wrong way of course and I know that you play your way
But I also remember you saying that you remember all of the advice people tell you even if you agree with it

Both with Drephen and KK
You had a perfect opportunity to take the stock early
That being, you had them at ~80% and all you had to do was uthrow->knee

Now of course I'm not saying that you're bad for not doing this or anything
Just keep in mind that at 80%-90% at least
uthrow->knee is guaranteed

And the less time you give them to run around
The better off you are

So just something to think about, I dunno if you knew that or not when you went into those matches.

Edit;
Other than that I thought you did really well, made some smart decisions
also
THE **** IS THIS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI_0N7-C4ZM&feature=channel_video_title&t=04m35s
And that last combo was pretty sick

[maybe stepping over boundaries]
KirbyKaze's edgeguarding is pretty beast
but sometimes, KK, you go for silly things rather than what works

And what I mean by that is
Sometimes you add in too many hits
Less hits > More hits
Biggest example being here

I'm assuming you were going for a dtilt->a nair
Where as a dsmash would have worked just fine
And I totally understand why you did a dtilt [had you whiffed the dsmash you would have been punished hard]
But of course you understand what I'm getting at. Simple is always better than contrived, but again, you know that.

Also, sometimes I feel like you were afraid to hit S2J
Like here

Another time is right here [a testament to S2J's pressure game]

The last thing I want to know is, why did you go FD in the third game? Just wondering the mindset behind that

Obviously I'm not trying to say anything rude or anything like that
Just hoping to point out some things that might help both of you in the future

Click to expand...

reason i didn't up-throw knee is cuz i was playing bad enough doing guaranteed stuff tech skill wise that up-throw knee like never worked out for me.

if u read my writeup i said kirbykaze was playing bad so dumb imo to critique him, most of your probable advice is stuff he already knows. Kirbykaze is one of the most knowledgable players about the game

edit: actually i dont care much


idk about running around part

i knew about up-throw knee thanks
==

watching my set, i was messing up tech skill up a lot but i made it seem like i was doing stuff on purpose. i was constantly f-throwing, and one instance i up-throw i dash instead of jumping

that part at 4:20 where he didn't hit me after i side-b is complete jank because he expected me to hit him prob, my move didn't come out, then i try to make up for it and it works. jank sequence that worked out in my favor

weird set overall, i turned up the jank, kirbykaze was playingbad/ more tired than me prob