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Video Critique Thread

Pi

Smash Hero
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Feb 5, 2008
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Lake Mary, Florida
i don't think anyone is claiming that samus beats ganon head to head
he has grab combo's, kills her early (relatively), trades are in his favor, his ledge guarding on her is pretty top notch, can't CC or spot dodge him, UB's are risky, etc. etc.

but that's why camping is looking so effective, his big and slow, but strong, but big and slow
so force him to take as much or more damage trying to get to you as he would do if he does
and then maybe punish some frustrated whiffs or whatever, put him off stage, kill him
might tip the scales in samus' favor a bit

platforms would be pretty good vs. samus camping, but it at least eliminates some of his approach options, so having to deal only w/ his platform game is a load off of your mind, especially because platforms aren't really huge areas to move around and bait on
and aren't exactly the safest place to D up on
 

Pluplue

Smash Ace
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Apopka? FL!!!
pff I feel great when I camp. and yes I banned yoshis he banned FoD I think because its very hard to edgeguard samus on FoD with the platform crap.
 

Pi

Smash Hero
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dude camping ganons is awesome.

and it's not like we're fox or falco camping, where there's like nothing u can do about these fast moving lasers

missiling can be punished and you have to do it smartly, and it creates a lot of unique options to cover and ish
 

ThePrime

Smash Lord
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Tuk House, WA
Hey guys went to a tourney in oregon this weekend and had some sets recorded on the livestream:

http://www.twitch.tv/bestbout/b/300457319

Critique, comment, etc u guys know the drill
My 3 sets (vs ic, falco/marth, fox start at around 0:57:30

EDIT: my third set doesn't start till ~ 1:33:00 (i forgot i did some friendlies in between, unless u wanna watch those too)

There was a problem with the sound, so it's basically silence till around 1:22:00 when we got the sound back, then it goes out again for some reason lol but w/e. Some pretty good sets in there so i hope u guys watch!
 

bubbaking

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Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
pff I feel great when I camp. and yes I banned yoshis he banned FoD I think because its very hard to edgeguard samus on FoD with the platform crap.
Doesn't the 'platform crap' also help out ganon, since he can just dair thru them and other random shenanigans? Also, I think a Ganon on platforms is in a bad position, especially if he's baited onto them by missiles. Not too much he can do to a Samus coming on him from below other than shield, and that opens up other things.
 

Pi

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i would say no to the platforms helping him out
dair through is pretty easy to see coming
and as a whole ganon is big and clunky so having to maneuver around oddly spaced platforms can be tricky
 

Violence

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
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Vancouver, BC
On large stages, I tend to agree, but on smaller ones, I'm not so sure.

I really just hate being on platforms against Ganon, so the platforms are generally ignored for me.

But I do love taking Ganon to FD, Stadium, or DL.
 

Smashjin

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
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Centerville, Massachusetts
Most Ganons will say their favorite level is Battlefield because of the platforms. The platforms help Ganon get around the level quicker from his wavelands.

Obviously he can do a pretty good job pressuring when he's under someone on a platform too.
 

bubbaking

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Personally, I don't even think the MU is hard cuz of his aerials and platform games and stuff. I think the biggest thing here is the fact that once he grabs Samus, she HAS to eat an aerial as long as the Ganon responds to your DI accordingly. Those aerials really hurt, too... Also, as a way of approaching, I find Ganon's side-B to be hard to punish. Oftentimes, they can just do it again to counter something you try to do Oos.
 

Ørn

Smash Journeyman
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Oct 5, 2009
Messages
212
Location
Denmark
Man, Fox' NTSC upsmash hurts.

I think your edgeguards were a bit off during your set with Col Bol while his were spot-on.

My brain is in off mode so I'm sorry I can't give any meaningful critique, but I did enjoy watching the matches.

Samus is such a fun character.
 

Pi

Smash Hero
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col bol kinda **** my whole mind up when i play him lol
it's very hard to maintain focus when he shine gimps you like that, he also applies a lot of pressure andn doesn't give you time to think, something a lot of people don't realize is really effective vs samus

so anythhing you can point out can help me, just so i can ingrain it into my brain a little more so when he's pressuring me i can know..>

also i throw out fair wayyyyyyyyy tooo much lol
and every timei throw out nair instead it hits...what is wrong w/ me lol
 

.tea©

Smash Journeyman
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Aug 2, 2008
Messages
200
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Vienna, Austria / Wittlich, Germany
Here are some vids of my samus from a small local one week ago.

Winner Bracket - vs Kr0x

Winner Bracket - vs Meo

Winner Final - vs Baker

Grand Final - vs Baker

I played kinda bad in Winner Finals, but **** happens. :D Watching the vids I feel like I should throw out some more uptilts and mix up the dsmash/dtitlt-crouches a bit more. Also some more uairs I guess. ;)

Here´s also a set from a 40 (?) people tournament in November vs Timi. Timi is pretty good, he 2:0´d Calle W not so long ago. Sadly this is the only set of my samus that got recorded at this tourney. I played Winner Finals vs Pasi (who is likely the best Fox in Europe), but it wasn´t recorded. :( LF and GF weren´t played out anyways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-yGFmAxYeo
 

abcool

Smash Ace
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The Bahamas
Dude did you tech his shine in Grand finals vs baker around 5: 40 something..Does shine make Samus fall down in PAL?
 

AntoPark

Smash Lord
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Jan 17, 2010
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Irvine, CA
This is all just my personal opinion so take what you want from it.

I think you need to calm down and play a little bit more patiently. I thought you played much better spacing and move-choice wise the second game!

When you're playing against marth or pretty much anyone, you want to stay grounded. Samus is at her best on the ground.

Dash attacks are great, but use them wisely because when they don't hit, you're pretty much a sitting duck.

Samus is both a great and a terrible character. She has some really bad match ups and they're bad because it's so easy to get put into a bad position.
Speaking of bad positions, don't overextend. I saw you coming at him with random fairs/nairs. That just puts samus in a terrible position against any character. Try to stray away from those high-risk, low reward type situations!

Missles are kind of tricky in the match up. I never shoot them expecting them to hit. I shoot them to make my opponent move in a certain way, whether it be shielding or jumping.

Don't forward smash so much, it's another one of those high-risk, low reward situations. Samus really has to be careful around Marth because Marth is so much more unforgiving towards samus' mistakes than she is to marth's. It's like you get u-tilted once and you're in the air for ages.

Dash attacks are for predicting their approaches or catching them when they're off guard. It feels absolutely terrible to dash attack a shield though. I'd say my ftilt:dash attack ratio is 3:1.(which is probably too many dash attacks still.)

I saw a lack of shield pressure. Not too sure what to say about that, just space jabs/tilts. You'll get grabbed if you space them improperly!

Super wave dashes are cool and I try them all the time, but they're not really that useful so get your basics down before you start implementing them into your play!

You also have some moments where it just seems like you're standing still(it only happens for like a second or two, but still). You always want to be moving, because staying in one place is the worst for samus(in my opinion). Just dash dance like you were doing in the second game, but with more purpose.

Samus can be pretty quick with the help of platforms, so just practice random waveland tech skills. Just get really familiar with all your moves so you know which ones are the best in each situation.

Samus is the kind of character where you HAVE to be smarter than your opponent to win, so just constantly think about what you're doing and why you're doing it. If you're losing, think about why you're losing.

yep.
 

Taj278

TIME TO GET PAID!
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1:40 - It's generally better to cover the high ground than the defend the ledge from that distance. It's a very difficult sweet spot for Falco, and easily covered by tilt. So if he goes high, you can just time your up tilt and have better success. You could've made the ledge successful, but it would've been really difficult and you would likely need to guess more than you need to if you just stood by the ledge and tilted.

But I can understand if the distance seemed ambiguous at first glance. When you've been in the Falco slaying business as long as I have, those distances become more certain.

2:00 good job avoiding invincible Falco.

2:28 Classic edgeguards :D

2:40 - Try to lightshield or SDI away so that you can avoid that shield pressure.
Also, try not to use dash attack against Falco at low percentage. Even if you connect, he can often turn it into bigger damage on you. You generally want to use it when it forces him to go into tumble animation and techs.

I can also understand wanting to use it so that you CAN get him to those percentages. It's generally pretty hard to land clean hits on Falco anyway.

3:09 - You gave him the 69% :( That sequence started with a nice counter to his approach though. After you landed that second tilt you have to recognize that you're not going to beat Falco out from that position and a wavedash back to bait that approach or moving into him with shield up for the up B counter would have probably been better.

3:58 Don't reach against invincible Falco. :( You want your presence to force him off stage again, or you just want to go over him. Getting that reversal is really hard after he just refreshes invincibility.

4:30 Watch for those extra high down airs on shield, almost all new school Falcos will start doing those fade-aways.

4:49 You should be able to punish Falco with Up B OoS when he tries to cross up like that.

5:20 Down airs will be the death of you.

6:54 This is one of the toughest things to teach, but when you see Falco go high, you want to meet him before you neutral air so it minimizes where can he go to avoid it. You want to put yourself in a position where the worst-case scenario is that your neutral air reverses him (which is fine at that percentage) and so he's either on top of you or in front of you when you throw it out.

By the way, most of this "advice" could be tech skill makes or whatever, but I'm just throwing them out assuming that they were just oversights or lapses in judgement.

7:50 **** sucks. :( You can try buffering your tech as you're rising and smash DIing, but I think he just had you screwed at that height.

8:18 You're lucky he didn't just full hop down air you there, be careful returning to the stage at that height.

8:30 nice cross up shield stab. I prefer using tilts against the forward B as opposed to jabs. Though, the second hit of jab is still pretty nice for edgeguarding Falco. At least you got the skill though.

9:00 He gave you that stock! Don't be afraid to go for that HERO drop kick, you just gotta jump and up B immediately because he likes to instant forward B you. I'm pretty sure it's still safe. I was doing it to him without dying the last time I played him at least.

Toward the end, he was just zoning you out with lasers. That's when it's most important to be able to powershield about 20% of the time. It can give you the space you need to get back in and mess up his timing and rhythm.

Overall- Hitting Falco is hard, most of your REAL damage is going to come from countering his approaches with WD back smashes and Up B OoS. Otherwise, you're doing a good job of scratching him when you can, but try not to swing for the fences too much. (Down air) Eventually they're going to be looking for it and that's when the laser camping becomes even more of a problem. They're just gonna start baiting you out, because you haven't fully demonstrated that you can deal with it yet.

So try to keep your focus, shield DI those lasers and try to move between them with your WD OoS in between the ones and you can't power shield, and don't be afraid to go to the ledge if he pushes you from that distance to reset yourself and your shield to get easier powershields.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, my turn. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJkRNlM1AcY&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-YhwJaODWg&feature=channel_video_title

I definitely need to learn what Samus' options are against Sheik on down throw with DI up and in.
 

Pluplue

Smash Ace
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Apopka? FL!!!
I see a FEW little things you could work on wit yo samus, taj.
I noticed you jump and neutral air a lot vs falco to act as like a wall I guess? Falco can punish it REALLY easily though, so imo its just not good to use. Try jabs and tilts instead of floating a nair.

from about 1:45 till death you couldn't get a foot hold on the stage. I suggest when you're pushed to the edge, stall for a while then get up with fair if he's in range, up air if he's dropping down on you, (you can trade with his downair and tech to the middle of the stage or if you're at a low enough percent then you can down smash instead of teching) or do the hugs if he's just standing there, which is barely landing on the stage with your double jump off the edge.

Also why didn't you ban FD vs falco? lol


I have no idea what to do vs pikachu. just run around and try to hit him is my advice for that mu.
 

Taj278

TIME TO GET PAID!
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I see a FEW little things you could work on wit yo samus, taj.
I noticed you jump and neutral air a lot vs falco to act as like a wall I guess? Falco can punish it REALLY easily though, so imo its just not good to use. Try jabs and tilts instead of floating a nair.

from about 1:45 till death you couldn't get a foot hold on the stage. I suggest when you're pushed to the edge, stall for a while then get up with fair if he's in range, up air if he's dropping down on you, (you can trade with his downair and tech to the middle of the stage or if you're at a low enough percent then you can down smash instead of teching) or do the hugs if he's just standing there, which is barely landing on the stage with your double jump off the edge.

Also why didn't you ban FD vs falco? lol


I have no idea what to do vs pikachu. just run around and try to hit him is my advice for that mu.
I don't ban FD. :p Also, the whole set was random. (DL64 was DSR because it was too long, lol)

But thanks, I'll keep all of that in mind. I feel like Axe just stuffs me so hard when I play grounded against him.

You're also right about Pikachu. Axe is too tough to crack, so if I want to win, I gotta play super patiently, especially when he stops rushing down.

Thanks again for the advice, Plup! =D
 

Ørn

Smash Journeyman
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Oct 5, 2009
Messages
212
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Denmark
Also why didn't you ban FD vs falco? lol
I actually kind of like FD vs. Falco. Yeah, lasers are a pain, but I consider those to be minor annoyances compared to getting platform camped on stages like DL64. Plus upthrow grab combos usually lead to dair > tech chase which can get pretty ridicolous very quickly. Samus combos space animals very well on FD, in my opinion.

Also, the commentary on the first match was hilarious and I really enjoyed watching your matches vs. Axe!
 

Violence

Smash Lord
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Vancouver, BC
Hey Taj, you have quite the sick *****. A shame you've kept her a secret for so long.

I've just finished the first video, and it seems to me that with your reaction time, I think you can theoretically completely shutdown Pika's recovery options, except for edge cancel'd up b.

If you drop a bomb and stand at approx utilt range, you can cover all of Pika's normal recovery options.

If Pika Up b's to the ledge and hits caught by the bomb, you can hit confirm it into a d-angled fsmash(stupid broken reaction time). If Pika up B's on stage, you can hit him out of landing lag.

Just an idea.

I'm going to watch the other two later today.
 

Corigames

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Oct 20, 2006
Messages
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Tempe, AZ
=It's generally better to cover the high ground than the defend the ledge from that distance.
Yeah, my slayer level is much lower XD I'll take the high road in that situation.

Try to lightshield or SDI away so that you can avoid that shield pressure.
I hardly ever light shield, I guess I just haven't applied it to my game.

Also, try not to use dash attack against Falco at low percentage. ... You generally want to use it when it forces him to go into tumble animation and techs.
Nah, I know I shouldn't dash attack him straight to the face, but it works really well when he's mid jump and Xander likes to jump away from stuff. So I end up preemptively dash attacking him expecting him to leave the ground. More reaction less proaction required.

After you landed that second tilt you have to recognize that you're not going to beat Falco out from that position
But that's harrrrrrrrrd D :

Don't reach against invincible Falco. :(
Will do captain... or... won't do...

You should be able to punish Falco with Up B OoS when he tries to cross up like that.
I think that roll was suppose to be anything but

5:20 Down airs will be the death of you.
Not if I kill me first >:D

This is one of the toughest things to teach, but when you see Falco go high, you want to meet him before you neutral air so it minimizes where can he go to avoid it.
Duly noted.

By the way, most of this "advice" could be tech skill makes or whatever, but I'm just throwing them out assuming that they were just oversights or lapses in judgement.
That assumption is fair, most of my sight is over and my judgment lapsy. I have humility to say it.

8:18 You're lucky he didn't just full hop down air you there, be careful returning to the stage at that height.
I think I said something out loud to him just after that happened about it XD

At least you got the skill though.
At least you got the skill
you got the skill
skill
/happy

He gave you that stock! Don't be afraid to go for that HERO drop kick
I NEED A HERO!

Toward the end, he was just zoning you out with lasers.
Oh, believe me, I was well aware. I also made sure he was well aware. I was also speaking in the language of saltinese while doing it.

They're just gonna start baiting you out, because you haven't fully demonstrated that you can deal with it yet.
True facts : ( Same thing with needles
Thanks Taj I greatly and deeply appreciate it.
Come play with me more!
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
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What the......since when did Taj play Samus?!? Dang, and I was right about to ask for advice on general things to do w/ Mewtwo against Spacees and the demonic Marth. :/

As for FD, this is just an idea, but would it be reasonable to consider continued WDs oos as an approach against ridiculous laser camping? Also, imo, I kinda like to ban Yoshi's against Falco. I know enclosed space keeps them from running away all the time, but I just find Falco's shenanigans on YS (shine>shine>shine I'm dead? Seriously?!?) to be a little too......frustrating.
 
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