UTrick'd2, OVER! Mafia wins!

Kantrip · Dec 8, 2011

Gorf is scum for manipulating me like that.

I'll read his posts again for you, gorf.

#HBC | Gorf · Dec 9, 2011

OH MY GOD THAT ACCUSATION IS NOT TRUE BECAU-

Mind giving your reason for why you think she ain't scum, preferably by refuting my points?

#HBC | Gorf · Dec 9, 2011

Oh, and telling me how her recent play isn't scummy as balls too?

Kantrip · Dec 9, 2011

Idek. I can't picture WK faking this anger as scum, and I've seen it before. Really, really terrible play. I can't refute your points. I'm just saying WKscum feels off to me.

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

are you willing to lynch him though

(wk is a guy, gord =P)

#HBC | Gorf · Dec 9, 2011

Werekill said:
I'm a nice girl who doesn't do that crap.

Anybody that reminds me of J can't possibly be a guy..

Kantrip said:
Idek. I can't picture WK faking this anger as scum, and I've seen it before. Really, really terrible play. I can't refute your points. I'm just saying WKscum feels off to me.

So a feel. I mean, I'm not gonna lie when I say the emotions seem legit. But that can come from any angle. When I used to lie to my parents all the time, I'd craft myself to believe the lie, and when my dad would tell me over and over that I'm lying, I'd just start breaking down and getting pissed because he is NOT believing me. Emotions can come from any angle. It's the play that just screams scum to me mang, you feel me?

Also, I second TBlock's question.

Kantrip · Dec 9, 2011

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
While I did have Acro as a personal scum pick, I think a quick lynch without a claim was stupid as hell, I'm legit mad about this, like why the **** did people put him at L-1?

Acro claim when you can claim and give your last reads.

Red flag to me. The "he was a scumpick for me" part.

Kantrip · Dec 9, 2011

Lol I posted that so randomly. I was just reading the Acrostic lynch again, haha.

Alright I can see that WK's play has been awful, he's certainly not an asset, but I really feel he's town. I'll lynch him to avoid a mislynch, I guess.

What happened to Soup suspicions?

#HBC | Gorf · Dec 9, 2011

Dude Soup is just a question mark to me. I trust TBlocktown's ability to read people, which is why I'm cool with him saying Souptown.

TBlock, anything else (aside from what LAK has I guess) you want out of toDay?

Kantrip · Dec 9, 2011

I didn't mean just from you. I mean in general.

#HBC | Gorf · Dec 9, 2011

Welp. I'm thinking the suspicion died off after his claim.

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

Gorf said:
Dude Soup is just a question mark to me. I trust TBlocktown's ability to read people, which is why I'm cool with him saying Souptown.

TBlock, anything else (aside from what LAK has I guess) you want out of toDay?

nah, just stuff from LAK. i also want their final stance on werekill, and the sooner the better. then i'm fine with the day ending.

soup is losing his towniness with this constant dodging the LAK read explanation. i'm pretty sure he actually has no explanation, and i'd have no trouble leaving him as town if it weren't for this. thing is, he would actually do that as town too, so it might not be a scum tell.

still, i'm definitely not as satisfied with the slot as i was immediately after the claim

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

Kantrip said:
Red flag to me. The "he was a scumpick for me" part.

cool i'm not the only one

Kantrip said:
Lol I posted that so randomly. I was just reading the Acrostic lynch again, haha.

Alright I can see that WK's play has been awful, he's certainly not an asset, but I really feel he's town. I'll lynch him to avoid a mislynch, I guess.

What happened to Soup suspicions?

can i take that to mean you are suspicious of soup?

Kantrip · Dec 9, 2011

No, he's only null for me. I just remember everyone was all "Soup is scum" and then people just dropped that.

Unvote, Vote Lovable Adorable Kanine

#HBC | Gorf · Dec 9, 2011

TBlock said:
nah, just stuff from LAK. i also want their final stance on werekill, and the sooner the better. then i'm fine with the day ending.

soup is losing his towniness with this constant dodging the LAK read explanation. i'm pretty sure he actually has no explanation, and i'd have no trouble leaving him as town if it weren't for this. thing is, he would actually do that as town too, so it might not be a scum tell.

still, i'm definitely not as satisfied with the slot as i was immediately after the claim

My theory? The same thing with that whole claim hype crap... It's just attention begging... And if it is then I'm kinda ugh... He had lack of internet connection, but gained it back today, with proof in a game of some sorts. But as far as alignment I can't read it.

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

i don't see it as attention begging. it's more... he wants to be be seen as better than he actually is, even as town, so he throws out strong reads that he can't defend. here's the post - he's not really looking for people to take note so that he can come out with some brilliant explanation. he just puts the reasoning there. that is if he's town. i could maybe see it as scum trying to project a townie front, but not really... it doesn't feel like something scum soup would really care to do

Soupamario said:
sounds good, i will be using it as a format and not actually posting it, because it's just brainstorming jamble and ****, it's like Asdioh's notes only worse where i make my mundane bull**** theories without clogging a thread.

Town:
Ryker - I don't have many problems with Ryker, none at all. my paranoia is not unsettling enough to deviate from this read. While ryker's content is omnious and he plays a bit of Null sometimes, he also has break-out moments, such as his case on Acrostic. before this, his flavor crumbing of Mr. Crocker was null and i was going to assume he was going to claim something along it, of course ryker being that omnious figure he is, he did not.

even in my notes, i do not go in-depth with posts, i tend to look at the surface, and the surface i see is blantant townie intent mixed with Ryker's omnious play.

as i said to Meadow, i try to pair that steel chair moment with some of my other reads, but it doesn't come out well, because Ryker knows how to make himself null.

i stopped doing this after i realized it was leading my nowhere.

to say short, Ryker is obvious town at the moment and i would not suggest his lynch at all.

Kantrip - This should be fairly self-explanatory, his beginning play was pretty bad but he came out fairly good and he got his head together, i find his townie intent comes from his submissive and subjective play where he asks silly things such as "could i be scum?" i could also count this as meta sometimes, but i cannot wrap around my head that Kantrip is trying to lead me or others into something i/they shouldn't with comments like this.

Gorf - Good play all around, not really deep on his content but he's concise and know what he wants to say, he also is a pretty funny guy and he catches certain things (as mentioned by meadowsizzle) that some don't.

Brosuke - I dunno, his Xonar test seemed fairly townie and it's intent did too, i hate going in-depth with reads but i always want to blurt things out when i need to say something, so i created notes for myself to just heavily ramble and clear my thoughts. i would consider this my most vauge read which i should re-read more and look at my notes, but i'm fine with the read i have on him right now.

LAK - Solid town-read, while his content and what he does isn't all there and i see some cautious play, his thoughts matched up with mine regarding Meadowsizzle at this peak of his first post, and it's a main reason why i have a such a null read on Meadowsizzle, but i will go into that later.

Null:
JO_OEY (His slot) - I am null lean scum on JO_OEY, mostly because he never backed up his statements and on top of this his content consisted of him yelling and calling everyone idiots ta~don. i'm null for the fact JO_OEY never really did have enough time to go into the game, and that's just fact.

Werekill - Another slot where i just have that gut feeling of town, but still null due to lack of stances.

Meadowsizzle - He seems to be playing according to how they usually play, but i don't see anything strong enough to warrant much of a town or scum read on them, i've been trying to use interaction with my other reads to get something solid, and i'd say it has somewhat worked.

Scum:
Inferno3044: Obvious scum. literally obvious. i wanted to concisder Inferno town for his reaction to the Ryker lynch, but his latest statements and his play "Robotic" if you will, have just led me to no other option.

he instantly went on me just as pressure began to unfold, as mentioned not too long ago but i'm lazy to dig up comments.

i HAD Zeke the Moth as scum but i suppose him claiming cop ****s that up...

#HBC | Red Ryu · Dec 9, 2011

T-block said:
pull up your past posts that have substance then

i bet you pretty much everything you bring up is about inferno, and i've already shown why your substance about inferno doesn't help us

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
Elaborate on this. Also want to know what doesn't make Acro's comments early to Ryker not a scum tell.

Washed/S2 hydra is looking like scum to me, a lot of side commentary and playing a mentorish role with not a whole lot of meddling in the mud me thinks.

This is most from what I read since the game started til page 4-5 of that hydra posting.

Though on the contrary I'm not certain of Inferno scum in relation to Acro yet.

@Joey: thoughts on Acro and Meow hydra?

@Zeke: same for you.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
Vote: Meadowsizzle

forgot that as well.

Ryker you all wet, and washed up with your Alabama pals?

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
I don't follow.

So where exactly atm do you stand with Ryker, or is it the same as you stated befire with your readlist?

I like him at L-2, though will put him at L-1 if need be.

And I'll work on that posting stuff when I'm not at work.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
While I did have Acro as a personal scum pick, I think a quick lynch without a claim was stupid as hell, I'm legit mad about this, like why the **** did people put him at L-1?

Acro claim when you can claim and give your last reads.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
One of these three are scum.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
Soup, Inferno is hard to see scum intent, I can see a poor read leading to what he did.

Soup's scum intent is crystal clear to me more so.

I think there is an indy in this game, I will not clarify on why because it is speculation alone.

BTW, got a vid of you vs Reflex's PT?

I've been working a 34-40 hour week, thanks giving, two parties, and other stuff. Johns but it was well worth it for the parties.

Case is your posting as lot of fluff when the game started, your pushing a lot more but I'm still seeing some of the fluff I saw when the game started and I first called you out.

Say wat.

BP cop?! Bull**** with legit sanity, your either insane or something else altogether.

k.

Gonna try and do more for you T-block. Especially you .

Should have said I was doing stuff and that I don't post on hydras from my phone. woops, just let it happen.

To be frank I don't care to persue you right now, at least over Inferno or Soup atm. I think your still on my list for the fluff and playing follow the leader which is unlike you, the WL side.

Vote: Soup

I still got my eye on you, don't go too far Moewz.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
If it's a Twilight Power, wouldn't you still be able to use it if you were the chosen lynch?

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
I do think AtE is uncharacteristic of him, but with alterier outside influences I can see it affecting him.

It has for me in past games.

I've never played in a game where scum offered themselves up like this, nor one where they give up like this saying just kill me where they flipped scum. The logic and the series of events doesn't look like scum motivation, if he was scum he would push harder on his scum picks and when giving up try to leave town in chaos.

Inferno isn't doing this, on the flip side I feel like Soup is trying to distance and play more transparent than Inferno has been.

Soup outright lied about having notes, it's not null either there is no reason to lie about something like that as town, scum does if it makes them look like a townie to hide in the crowd.

The main thing that does bug me with Inferno is the fact he is a role/flavor cop, when he have another cop. For all we know Zeke has an odd sanity, which is very likely if the role/flavor cop is the real cop though 90% of the time that role is scum aligned. Still feels like a null point but it does bug me having two cops, one being bulletproof on top of it though I beleive Zeke since it gets his result out there with us having to play guess work with his sanity, since he can't die via bullets.

Ryker I want those vids, they will be entertaining to me.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
In Halloween yeah, I never read Time Travelers since people told me Ranmaru and his friend made d1 60 pages long or something.

And I'll be looking up those vids when I wake up.

I'm gonna go with this.

I'm not confident in a Soup lynch anymore, not with the claim he made. It's baffling to the point it has to be real. Gov/Mot combo it seems.

I'll get back to Inferno posts.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
On the contrary for me.

I can see it as a possibility seeing as what he claimed as well as his more recent posts.

My town read on him was shriveled to put it in words.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
I've read it all, I'll check with John later.

I wanna votre inferno but not without consolting him first, my read took a 180 with him.

Your case on Zeke, eh, I wasn't complelled to think he is scum from it, his claim makes me doubt it a bit and it would depend on a flip from Inferno.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
There's definately an Arsonist, and since Brosuke said he was splashed with water yesterDay, there is an Arsonist-protection role it seems.

Ryker seems like he was a scum kill.

As for the comatose guy - well he's dead weight right now. :/

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
T-Block, I haven't been posting a some of the things you quoted.

How can you say it was me who posted all of that with saying I've played better? Fluff? Read back on my interactions with Soup and Inferno, Soups claim alone made him town to me along with rereading and seeing Inferno's posts. I didn't push Soup because his play with his claim.

Inferno at the end was looking far more likely to be scum. John posts a lot of fluff as town, congrates you matched his meta.

I haven't been posting fluff, reread the interactions and say I was posting fluff.

I need a full reread of T-Block, meta is telling me scum block atm, but I need to colsolt with John since I want his consent before I vote. I also need to read this thread instead of skimming the last few post and seeing the case on us.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
For the record, you playing the noob card is a super scum tell to me.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
Also I did specuklation and number crunching, I think a mass claim might be warrented.

If we get another double night kill we're in a kingmaker situation, I think an indy is possible in this set-up since I am speculating a lot on what is possible.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
You OMGUS people a lot, MM told me that along with other games I've seen. You wanted me dead for picking you for a gambit alone.

I thought you were implying your play was bad, if I was wrong my bad, but your applying a lot of self meta to state your townieness. I know I did this with John but I find it incredibly hypocritical of T-Block when I know he has played 2-3 games with John and knows that already yet he refers to you as a more likely town read due to meta.

This is a hydra, I'm not the only one posting, he knows some of those posts are John's, it's obvious since me and John have distinct posting differences.

T-Block should I trust you? I can't at all.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
I'll tell ya at end game since that depends on your alignment.

Yeah if I messed up guess I did.

So Werekill where are your overall reads, that is important atm.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
Hydras are a part of the game if they show up, deal with it.

You gotta be blind as **** if you think I posting all fluff. Scum Acro came from his post on a read, I'll quote it if I need to.

I cared about those answer, don't put bull**** in my mouth.

And yes you are fitting scum meta. You ask question for different purposes as scum and it shows, in Housepets you asked Kantrip, myself and JTB questiont to build a case on us for a mislynch, your questions do no look at connections or play but rather place presumptions to get people to bandwagon on a case so people will form on a lynch.

I know you died in SMRPG N1 but your play still fits it solidly, you did the same thing when I called you out on it D1 when the game started there as well. Your not asking questions or making direct links on play, your forming mislynches on the info you gather. Look at your questions to Brosuke, it pretty much solidfied your intent there.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
Also it should be easy because I post a paragraph or more, if not I post in a way that differs, I can see it for some posts but I'm calling BS on saying you can't tell a bunch of the posts were made by me.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
Wait composer is in this game?

@mod: request prod on Composer

Kingmaker means were put in a situation where we can't win and everyone playing pretty much decides who wins.

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
Not sure about Composer or Werekill yet, but John gave me permission so,

Vote: T-Block

Also still want a mass claim.

Someone is a dirty liar, T-Block is scum.

T-block said:
soup never answered as far as i can tell, and you never brought it up again

His claim changed my interest in looking at him.

If he turned into a town read, I have no interest in looking at him.

T-block said:
did... i really just read this paragraph?

i didn't ask jtb questions at all. he came in with a terrible post after his gambit and i built a case almost exclusively from that. i asked kantrip very few questions, but again the basis for his lynch was that TPK targetted one of us, and his comparison cop gambit on john that i twisted into looking scummy. i didn't ask you questions either - i just pushed hard that it was either you or me, and that it wasn't me, then town followed me onto it. the basis for your lynches wasn't set up by questions i asked at all. i used the circumstances that arose, and i certainly didn't need to provoke them.

Liar, Liar, Liar.

Here is why.

Here are the posts in question from that game.

T-block said:
I couldn't find any peanuts >=(

JTB, you're being silly. The gambit was hella obvious, but going along with it or going against it isn't a scum tell in itself. Do you really think there's a higher chance of scum being among those who opposed it? If you're going to throw out a daycop claim like that at the start of D1 where some reasonable players will pick up on it, you gain information on experience of other players rather than alignment, no?

You should be able to tell much more about how the target of the gambit reacts though, especially since this is apparently his first game. I don't think his reaction was tainted by the posts of others to such an extent that we can gain no information at all from it. Having a daycop call you scum right off the bat is pretty scary even without votes to back it up, especially for a new player. Yet in your 116, you dismiss any information gained on TG7 in favour of casting suspicion on pretty much everyone else. Why?

So, JTB, are you able to tell anything about TG7?

I don't really like how you followed up on this gambit at all.

T-block said:
Sorry if I kinda stole your thunder there, TPK. I had the thoughts based on previous posts, but his responses to you ended up being pretty useful. Seemed like you were done with that line of questioning, so I hope I didn't interrupt anything. You can be town in my eyes if that makes you feel any better

LAL is garbage btw, if only for the fact that there are people who play this game who believe it's okay to lie as town.

@everyone: Thoughts on my posts about JTB and Gustave, please. Maybe I'll even tell you right now that I do not necessarily agree with my posted suspicions. I won't say whether it's neither of them or both of them, or one of them, or which one, so you'll have to evaluate both on the merits of logic alone. Does what I posted suggest that either is scum? Can both be scum?

T-block said:
D1 we are going to choose a lynch that will help us win the game - that's all there is to it. Ideally it's one that gives a lot of connections going into future Days. Why are you even entertaining the idea that we will waste D1 to such an extent that we'll have to say "oh well, let's just lynch the guy who was useless in the first 36 hours of D1"? You keep saying "if we have no one better", but that in itself is a problem - why do we have no one better?

My issue is not that you are okay with seeing TG7 lynched. It's that you feel the need to designate him as a fallback lynch when a fallback lynch is wholly unnecessary if we play properly. RR, what is the benefit of instituting a fallback lynch structure for this game? Even if we did need to fall back, why not just let that happen towards the end of the Day? Why explicitly state the strategy now?

As an aside, what is your read on TG7 then? Do you truly believe he is scum?

I just want to know what you thought of the post in general, and if there was anything in it that suggested JTB might be scum. Do you dislike him at the moment because he was dumb, or do you think there was scum motivation?

What if I said to focus on this part of my post - that he opted to "dismiss any information gained on TG7 in favour of casting suspicion on pretty much everyone else". He is poised to be able to springboard onto pretty much any wagon that arises, no?

Just to be clear, you're referring to your 155 right? So your reasoning for JTB being scum is that he might have been trying to push a quick lynch?

See what I wrote above to TPK.

T-block said:
You're dodging the question, RR.

My question was not why should we lynch TG7.

My question is why do we need to decide on a fallback lynch right now?

T-block said:
@RR: Ah I missed that. Apologies.

So let's backtrack for a sec...

In 161, you say TG7 is the fallback lynch "no ifs ands or buts".
But then in 174, you say that you would listen to my reasoning if I were to oppose TG7's lynch.

Is the desire for a long term game plan really your reasoning? If I were to oppose it, your stating that you would ask why contradicts your earlier statement of "no ifs ands or buts". If you're going to bother to ask why, doesn't that allow the last second scramble to occur again?

T-block said:
I think it's completely crazy to think that I won't have a better pick than the useless newb by the end of D1. You've played enough games with me to know that I will

"No ifs ands or buts" shows reluctance to adapt a decision even with a potential influx of new information, and I see it as a device for scum to set up a mislynch. You set it up so that you might be able to make a decision early, when we have less information, and make it stick until the end of the day. Making decisions with less information... guess which side that favours.

It also shows a desire to get players to follow your lead. While there's actually nothing inherently wrong with that, the fact that you want to lead players into, as I said, making a decision with less information is raising red flags in my mind. Moreover, you say you would listen to me if I opposed it, but not anyone else. This shows your desire to be the leader is actually more a desire to sway weaker players to follow you, no? Why would you boldly state "TG7 is the fallback; no deviating from this" and then say "T-block, if you were to oppose this I'd listen"? You're not being consistent. Do you really have so little faith in your own abilities to evaluate a player's logic that you have to look at the source of the argument to determine whether the argument itself is worth considering?

Clear candidate? By the time you attempted to institute a fallback lynch, I already had enough material to make a better lynch choice, but I guess I can't really hold it against you if you didn't see the same things I did.

T-block said:
Mkay then...cool. Hope you're not scum xP

Can we wait for JTB to come in and answer questions before we elaborate on that question, RR?

T-block said:
Really guys? That's the best you can do?

I agree with your TG7 read. Please keep your promise to deliver content.

T-block said:
Auspher, JTB said he never had any intent of following through with a TG7 lynch. Do you believe him?

And FoS stands for Finger of Suspicion. It's used to indicate suspicion of someone without actually voting.

They're saying you admitted to being opportunistic with just hopping onto pressuring JTB without solid reasoning.

I am not taking a stance on that in this post.

T-block said:
Depends on the context obviously... whether someone has reasoning to back up their vote, and whether we believe that reasoning is their own. And perhaps more importantly, whether their motivation behind that vote is truly to pressure, or to push a lynch, or to fake contribute.

Basically, that question is way too general to have a proper answer ._.

How confident are you in townAuspher? I have no clue how to read him to be honest.

T-block said:
Thanks for that deadline reminder, RR. I don't think I should wait to post this any longer.

I think we should lynch JTB.

===Strong town read on T-block===

JTB states in 116 that I am his strongest town read.

T-Block has only posted once and he's already my strongest town read since he's the only player that actually realized what I was doing. Nothing short of expected though, he's probably the most competent player in this game.

(...)

I'll be looking at those who also refused to join the wagon and watching them closely (pretty much everyone except T-block).

What is his reasoning for this read? That I recognized that he was attempting a gambit and went along with it. Both town and scum players can recognize a gambit and support it... the fact that a player recognizes a gambit should tell how experienced or how skilled that player is. It is not indicative of alignment. JTB is not a new player - he knows this, yet simply going along with the gambit is enough to land me as the only player he won't be looking closely at? That doesn't make any sense to me. I think JTB is attempting to get on the good side of (excuse the arrogance) one of the strongest players in this game. I cannot see a player of JTB's calibre honestly labelling me as town for that.

===Motivation behind his gambit===

JTB started the day with a daycop gambit, claiming a guilty on TG7. In explaining his gambit, he provides this reasoning for his choice of target:

a) He's a player I literally know nothing about so I figured he was new to mafia and wanted to see his reaction
b) Since the game started immediately following role pms being sent out, if he happened to be scum, I could get a reaction from him before he talked to a scummate.

This shows that he claims he went into the gambit with the intent of gaining information on TG7. Now, read the rest of his 116. Nowhere in that post does he offer any stance on TG7. In fact, he actually outright says that he did not get anything from TG7:

Of course, this only works if people actually put votes on him so that he feels pressured, but people are dense as **** and can't see intent if it smacked them upside the face.

But it wasn't in vain as I did get reads from other players due to it.

But then his most recent appearance gives us post 245:

I have TG7 as town. The way he reacted to it in the beginning was very nonchalant, as if he knew I was lying about my claim already.

...where he gives reasoning for having TG7 as town from things that happened before 116. His posts do not line up here - why not mention this reasoning in 116, instead of saying that he couldn't get anything because everyone messed up? And there's more - he states that one of TPK's reasons for defending TG7:

He is scum with TG7 and trying to redirect pressure onto me by debunking my claim.

He is implicating TG7 as scum here. This reason is not offered as a possibility - it is offered as a truth. So, we have that he was unable to learn anything about TG7 and that TG7 is scum in the same post, and then TG7 is town based on things that happened before 116. He is not being consistent.

It's clear that JTB did not have TG7 in the front of his mind when writing 116. So what does he do instead?

He casts suspicion on basically every player in the game. This comes back to the idea that both scum and town alike can recognize or fail to recognize a gambit - JTB should know that failing to recognize a gambit is not a scum tell, especially for newer or weaker players, yet he explicitly says he will keep a close eye on those who questioned him. In this way, he is poised to jump on any wagon that develops except for mine - rather convenient then that he disappeared for over 48 hours right after, no? I think there is also an intimidation factor to his post:

I'll be looking at those who also refused to join the wagon and watching them closely

Weaker players will likely be more wary of crossing JTB after a post like this. I am unsure of whether this was intentional, but the effect is definitely there.

I question his motivations behind pulling the gambit. I think it is quite clear that a read on TG7 was no more than a secondary motivation. It looks more like an attempt to gain town credibility, and to intimidate weaker players by harshly pointing out supposed flaws in their play, rather than to gain reads.

===Inconsistent behaviour between his treatment of RR and Gustave===

In 116 he states RR as his strongest scum read. The reasoning he offers is that RR went against the gambit, then later goes along with it. He states that this is trying to garner town points while trying to make him look less credible.

But there is another person who did very similar actions. Look at Gustave's 40, then his 58. He opposes the gambit and then directs a post at Tokyo, using the gambit to try to gain information. Why does Gustave not get any suspicion? Why is RR his strongest scum read, while Gustave is not mentioned at all in his 116? Gustave was also one of the most active posters in the early game.

What does this suggest? It probably suggests that his pressure on RR is not sincere. But more importantly, it suggests that JTB is not paying attention to Gustave's actions. This is called selective scumhunting, and I find it highly unlikely that a town member would be justified in doing so.

This should be taken into account with Gustave's somewhat contradictory behaviour with regard to the gambit. Then, in his 175, he states that just the fakeclaim is enough to "clear" JTB for him. His main reasoning is that he finds it hard to believe that scum would put themself in the spotlight. This is an incredibly weak reasoning, as scum could easily do that. I strongly feel that scumJTB will lead us to scumGustave.

This lynch has it all - scum tells and connections =o Pretty much everyone has given an opinion on JTB, even though some didn't offer much

vote: JTB

Let's see those votes.

T-Block blatantly lied here, he asked JTB questions to try and get a response from him to help build his case on him. You have to look at the way T-Block asks his questions to tell where his head is and where he is trying to lead people.

This game he is not doing in a direction where he can make great reads or finds. Soup has us as Town for no reason, cool I agree, but that's an easy question to ask and look at. Werekill is scum, cool everyone has been saying that. Give me something that shows your doing something more than letting town help ya out or you push it into directions that help your opportunistic behavior, note I am not saying Werekill is town easily can be a bus to me.

Your setting up an easy end game for your scum team. I'm certain of it because of how your questioning and reading the game you have no intent to observe the roaster at large nor are you reading every player to an extend where you can make good reads to see intent of players, even Werekill.

T-block said:
i just skimmed your posts in smrpg and can't find any instance of you voicing suspicion of me for any reason. you're gonna have to help me find it.

Games starts, right when it does I call you out on being scum with meta. Like somewhere around page 1-3. Same thing I am call you out on here, asking questions for different reasons. Your not trying to make a case to find scum, your trying to fabricate cases to make a mislynch happen.

Your very opportunistic and it shows. Die.

T-block said:
how are you pulling things from so far up your ***? it's incredible.

[yt]_n5E7feJHw0[/yt]

T-block said:
my questions don't look at connections? are you ****ing kidding me? what about my asking soup to elaborate on his town read on you (which he still hasn't done)? what about my trying to understand why brosuke was so certain about inferno being town? and what the difference was between his opinion of zeke and werekill? i even asked ryker several times to elaborate on why he trusted meadow because i thought they could be indy pair.

Soup was easy to ask, still do you have a reason to be concerned with him?

Brosuke was going off a town read, if he didn't die wouldn't be surprised if you would push his certainty off Inferno being town as a scum tell. Aka you fishing for a mislynch.

Idk about Zeke other than the case he made that he retracted and then said he was wrong?

Ryker reading WL and vice verse is a science to them. They know each other so well that can read each other. Heck WL can figure out what intent Ryker has from gambits all the time. Something I'm surprised you didn't know but eh.

T-block said:
back up your statement that i'm making presumptions in an attempt to form a bandwagon, because that's such a vague statement that i can't defend from it. you're either dumb, scum, or so paranoid after what happened in housepets that it's clouding your reasoning. i don't think you're that dumb, so if you're just being paranoid, take off the goddamn goggles and see that you're saying "he could be trying to lead mislynches, therefore he is" rather than saying "he could be trying to lead mislynches, but he could also be legitimately scumhunting". if you're scum then just keep going i guess.

[yt]PetqKh7lr8g[/yt]

You already have proven this via your line of questioning. Where is your head at with what your doing? I don't see the town intent with your light pushes and weak cases. Where have you made a legit attempt to see the broad picture? Where have you tried to ask a question that leads to clears and seeing the line of reasoning? Instead your looking for things that only directly incriminate, shallow scum hunting aka fake. This is your scummeta, your play to the weaknesses of the roaster and make it apparent with how you set people up and use your line of questioning. You have no town intent.

Your scum and,

[yt]KL5yhZIacTE[/yt]

Vote: T-Block

Lovably Adorable Kanine · Dec 9, 2011

Damn it wrong browser again.

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

lol i don't even know where to start

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

substance posts collapse tag:

quote 1, 2 is fine for a first post. except joey and zeke never answer your questions and you don't seem to care. push on meadow goes nowhere, as you dropped it pretty quickly. i realize you said he dropped off your radar or something so you left it, which i actually didn't have any issue with, but you don't get to pass these posts off as substance then

quote 3 you ask a question that again goes unanswered, yet you never push for the answer. again showing you're asking questions just for the sake of asking questions. not substance, etc. you do take a stance on acrostic though, so you get credit for that

quotes 4, 5, 7, 12 do not contain any substance lol. it's commenting on acro after he got lynched, and then setup crap.

quotes 8, 9, 10, 11 are about the inferno ordeal, and i already said why it can hardly count as substance. the only time you justify your stance is the initial town read, based on believing the ate. after that, you don't explain why your town read "shrivels". then after that, you're back to putting him at l-1 with still no reasoning. inferno's flip didn't give us any information on your slot because you were flipping sides without explaining why.

quote 6 is all right, but still nothing special

quotes 13 and onwards come from after my initial push fyi, so they don't fall under my initial claim. even so, most of it is defending and pushing back at me, then pressuring werekill, which you said yourself is easy to do.

so nope, i still stand by my claim that the only substance you've given (either posts that show you're scumhunting, or posts that allow us to read your slot) is with regard to inferno, and that doesn't help us read you at all. the rest has been asking questions where you don't push when they go unanswered, comments on the setup, or mindlessly parroting what others have said ("one of these three is scum" sticks out in this category). it's only after i started really pushing you that you've given us anything that could be counted as information on your slot.

part 2 inc

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

man i made some good posts in housepets

questions i ended up asking jtb, removing the rhetoricals, before the case (pretty sure this is all of them - point out any that i miss):
"Yet in your 116, you dismiss any information gained on TG7 in favour of casting suspicion on pretty much everyone else. Why?"
"So, JTB, are you able to tell anything about TG7?"

the first question he never answers. the second he answers saying he has tg7 as town. cool. i guess i did ask him one question. the majority of the case (reread it) does not rely on that question at all... it adds just one point out of many. besides, if you were to pull a daycop gambit, is it not a natural question for someone to ask you "what did you gain from the gambit"? that's literally the only thing i asked jtb. reaching soooo hard.

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

next part inc

meanwhile, you still haven't stated your stance on werekill goddammit

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

Red Ryu said:
T-Block blatantly lied here, he asked JTB questions to try and get a response from him to help build his case on him. You have to look at the way T-Block asks his questions to tell where his head is and where he is trying to lead people.

yeah... nope. the dirt on jtb came gifted on a silver platter. if you would actually read the case, you'd see that i did not provoke the statements i used for the majority of the case. thanks for bringing it up in this thread though... it'll really help everyone see how full of **** you are.

This game he is not doing in a direction where he can make great reads or finds. Soup has us as Town for no reason, cool I agree, but that's an easy question to ask and look at. Werekill is scum, cool everyone has been saying that. Give me something that shows your doing something more than letting town help ya out or you push it into directions that help your opportunistic behavior, note I am not saying Werekill is town easily can be a bus to me.

Your setting up an easy end game for your scum team. I'm certain of it because of how your questioning and reading the game you have no intent to observe the roaster at large nor are you reading every player to an extend where you can make good reads to see intent of players, even Werekill.

lol are you for real

let's look at your contributions to this game... i'm gonna pull everything i can out from your list of substance posts:
-push on meadow that gets dropped
-many posts focused on setup analysis
-stance on acro; no pressure placed on acro though
-scum read on soup, followed by town read after claim
-stance on inferno that switches a total of three times
-opinion that the case on zeke is "eh", but no stance on zeke
-questions asked to joey, zeke, soup, brosuke that never get answered and are dropped
-defense from my push
-questions to werekill that start after the pressure on werekill really starts ramping up; still no stance on werekill despite being asked at least twice
-call for a prod on composer

let's see how many players there are where i don't know your stance. i don't know what you thought of brosuke. i don't know what you think of kantrip. i don't know what you think of composer (although it's probably implied that he's null for inactivity so that's fine). i don't know what you think of zeke. i don't know what you think of gord. i didn't know what you thought of werekill before he started being pressured, and i still don't really know. i didn't know what you thought of me before i started pressuring you. how has your play been looking at the big picture? how have you been reading every player? you haven't. your play has been focused on doing as little as you can to go unnoticed.

my thoughts on ryker, soup, brosuke, werekill, LAK, inferno and gord have always been clear. i have been asking kantrip questions and following up on them - my stance would be clear on him if i had a decent read. acrostic was lynched before i got here. composer is implied null. i had meadow at indy pair with ryker, but i didn't voice that suspicion for obvious reasons. zeke i haven't been as transparent about, but that's because i don't really know what they're doing and decided that i have more important things to focus on for now (and i stated this in thread too). that's the entire playerlist.

Games starts, right when it does I call you out on being scum with meta. Like somewhere around page 1-3. Same thing I am call you out on here, asking questions for different reasons. Your not trying to make a case to find scum, your trying to fabricate cases to make a mislynch happen.

wait...is this what you're talking about?

Red Ryu said:
My response,

Unvote
Vote: T-Block

Your digging for a quick lynch like Pokemon Mafia again.

I'll vig ya with my god friday powers.

i literally thought this was an rvs post. it follows my fifth post in the game lol. the post was addressed to rajam, who, as i'm sure you'll remember, was insisting on staying in rvs despite serious interaction between me and omni. i guess it's scummy to try to force players to actually start playing the game? you're so paranoid it's kinda cute. or you're scum. still kinda cute.

Soup was easy to ask, still do you have a reason to be concerned with him?

Brosuke was going off a town read, if he didn't die wouldn't be surprised if you would push his certainty off Inferno being town as a scum tell. Aka you fishing for a mislynch.

Idk about Zeke other than the case he made that he retracted and then said he was wrong?

Ryker reading WL and vice verse is a science to them. They know each other so well that can read each other. Heck WL can figure out what intent Ryker has from gambits all the time. Something I'm surprised you didn't know but eh.

>accuse someone of not looking at connections
>dismiss examples of them actually looking at connections

You already have proven this via your line of questioning. Where is your head at with what your doing? I don't see the town intent with your light pushes and weak cases. Where have you made a legit attempt to see the broad picture? Where have you tried to ask a question that leads to clears and seeing the line of reasoning? Instead your looking for things that only directly incriminate, shallow scum hunting aka fake. This is your scummeta, your play to the weaknesses of the roaster and make it apparent with how you set people up and use your line of questioning. You have no town intent.

itt: rr thinks it is scummy to ask questions that can trip up scum

it's also my townmeta to try to get scum to contradict themselves lol. look at ducktales where i caught ryker based on a contradiction. it's a basic premise of mafia - scum needs to lie in order to win. you catch contradictions and analyze them to see if there's scum intent behind them. i think that's much better than saying "he feels like he's playing as he does when he's scum, let's call him scum" like you're doing.

Lovably Adorable Kanine · Dec 9, 2011

Werekill needs to claim, I do think he should be lynched. More so for the fact when I asked before I still feel like he was hiding behind his meta as a reason for why he was posting the way he was. That feels like scum intent.

On the flip side though, reading

Werekill said:
Hm. I'm ok with a LAK lynch, after another reread of him. He's definitely the scummiest player we have. Will post more reasons tomorrow, not much time.

TB I'm ok with lynching as well, I suppose. Will pull up individual posts tomorrow, but I admit that he isn't THAT scummy; he's only scummy enough for my secondary choice right now, but he's enough for a lynch. I might notice new things tomorrow while gathering posts that bump him up a bit, but still.

Gorf I'm not sure about, still. He was hypocritical in his push on me (which he still hasn't really addressed, if memory serves, but he's been scumhunting. He might be town, but I don't really know. He's still not the play toDay, though, I think.

Kantrip's "Oh it was just pressure lololol" is icky, but I'm not sure how it reflects on him. His earlier play is still sticking out as town to me, so I'm not up for lynching him toDay.

This looks grimy, My lynch or yours weren't voted for or even jumped on until the ideas were brought up. That is a blending feel right there.

Gorf is tunneling him a lot, but at the same time I see means and reasons to persue Werekill hard. His #1753 to #1766 since it's pretty much just fluff right there. It's nothing but insults that gains me nothing of any info on either of them. I'd definantly look at Gord on a Town flip from Werekill, if he flips scum Gorf is cleared.

I'm fine with a Werekill lynch in the end, but T-Block needs to die because he's obvscum.

Lovably Adorable Kanine · Dec 9, 2011

FYI, I haven't been here for some of the game and even on days when I could I thought John would post until I realized there were differences.

Do I have little to no real reads on a broad scale? Nope, only got a few since I skimmed most of the game. I need a Reflex.

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
Werekill needs to claim, I do think he should be lynched. More so for the fact when I asked before I still feel like he was hiding behind his meta as a reason for why he was posting the way he was. That feels like scum intent.

On the flip side though, reading

This looks grimy, My lynch or yours weren't voted for or even jumped on until the ideas were brought up. That is a blending feel right there.

Gorf is tunneling him a lot, but at the same time I see means and reasons to persue Werekill hard. His #1753 to #1766 since it's pretty much just fluff right there. It's nothing but insults that gains me nothing of any info on either of them. I'd definantly look at Gord on a Town flip from Werekill, if he flips scum Gorf is cleared.

I'm fine with a Werekill lynch in the end, but T-Block needs to die because he's obvscum.

about ****ing time

what is your stance on gord independent of the werekill flip?

Lovably Adorable Kanine said:
FYI, I haven't been here for some of the game and even on days when I could I thought John would post until I realized there were differences.

Do I have little to no real reads on a broad scale? Nope, only got a few since I skimmed most of the game. I need a Reflex.

wtf are you even saying with this?

you skimmed the game yet you're trying to defend my accusation that you haven't been producing posts of substance?

like... you're so lucky werekill is so goddamn scummy right now

Lovably Adorable Kanine · Dec 9, 2011

It's ok T-Block, I'm doing it all for you.

And yeah I am defending against that, because when I was here on Day 1 early day 2, I had substance, late day 2 was pretty much just inferno because I skimmed to catch up. John posted more on the beginning of Day 3, thanks John, and I skimmed again and went along since Werekill did look like scum.

And I don't like Gorf independent of his flip, aka I think he is looking like scum from the tunneling. A Werekill flip will completely change this.

But then again, I dislike how Composer is inactive, Soup isn't here too much, I want more Zeke info.

~

So, T-Block I posted garbage, and you responded nicely, I like that.

unvote

Makes it far more easier for me to catch up and read you better when we butt heads. Give me an idea who you think the scum team is as well.

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

**** thaaaaaat

which part is the intentional "garbage"?

respond asap

#HBC | Red Ryu · Dec 9, 2011

I just made BS up.

You were null the whole time. I didn't know what you posted since I skimmed and didn't wanna read so I decided to just mess with you to get the info by asking what you pushed, aka getting your reads without reading the thread.

Man I'm a jerk aren't I?

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

not really a jerk so much as backpedalling scum imo

gonna head to bed now, but i'm really getting the feeling it should be easy to find elements of your play that contradict your claim that it was all to get info from me

#HBC | Red Ryu · Dec 9, 2011

whatevs. Think what you want.

Thanks for not tell me who the scum team is btw.

@Mod: request prods

#HBC | Gorf · Dec 9, 2011

K so now that that's over Vote: Werekill amirite?

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

Red Ryu said:
whatevs. Think what you want.

Thanks for not tell me who the scum team is btw.

@Mod: request prods

you're welcome

i don't even know what you're trying to say

werekill wagon full speed ahead goooo

if i die, somebody make sure the pressure on LAK doesn't fall off. if you want to quicklynch him D4 i honestly would be fine with that (not really, but it wouldn't be the worst quicklynch)

zeke hasn't posted in over three days fyi. make sure we don't forget about him.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Dec 9, 2011

pretty sure werekill didn't claim yet so he claims fully first.

also soup and zeke need to tell night actions they did so I can look it over.

Lore · Dec 9, 2011

Gorf said:
Oh sweet Jesus I don't wanna have to respond to this.

/inb4werekill says I'm scum cuz of this post.

I hate this with a passion. Instead of actually conceding that I'm right in that I am actually posting content and that you were hypocritical, you decide to not even argue it so that you can just diss the post without giving reasoning. Hell, I would even have accepted a regular argument but this? No.

Don't even bother replying to this now. I don't particularly care to see the response now; it'll just be more of the same.

Gorf said:
Obtw, Werekill, totally unrelated to the in game content, but I'm NOT trying to be a douche, I'm really not. It's a game, and everything in game stays in game, nothing personal. I'm not gonna deem you bad at this game if you really ARE town, cuz shiz everybody makes mistakes and grows as a player, and you're relatively new to the game. You're getting pissed at me because of the way I'm treating your playerslot, and if you are genuinely getting your feelings hurt, that isn't my intention. You know how long it took KUZ to get good? Trust me, you're def. better than what Kuz was when he was still piecing things together, almost everyone is . I guess it's just a matter of me not willing to go easy on somebody when I think they're scum. And in the end, yea, it's a GAME. I don't want hard feelings dude.

Well, your playstyle is just VERY douchey, and I can't stand it when players play like that.

You're ignoring every point I make that doesn't fit in your viewpoint of me, and you just keep doing it. You try to put insults instead of actually rational replies, hoping that that'll be enough to let you slide by, and unfortunately, most people accept it as reasoning. I can't stand players like that, and I hate to play in games like that. Sorry, but that's just how I feel.

Replying to other things soon~

DtJ Glyphmoney · Dec 9, 2011

Prods have been sent out to people I felt needed them

Lore · Dec 9, 2011

In the middle of something huge, holy ****. I found something bigger than anything that I thought I had on TB.

However, I have a question for Gorf/everybody.

Gorf, let's say that you agreed with me that you were being massively hypocritical in your push about me hiding behind Brosuke's reasoning, and let's also say that you dropped your "he has no content" part. What do you have left on me?

I'd like to hear answers from other people as well.

Lore · Dec 9, 2011

Ugh, never mind. Halfway through the huge post I realized that it really didn't work, so nevermind. >_<

I basically saw some sort of connection between Acro, Lak, and Gorf, but then I realized that I was massively reaching just in an attempt to save my ***. My lynch reads from my last lynchee post still stand, but I'm gonna die anyway.

Should I claim? My role is kinda useless if I do, though.

T-block · Dec 9, 2011

yes claim please

#HBC | ѕoup · Dec 9, 2011

responding to prod.

UTrick'd2, OVER! Mafia wins!

Kantplay

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan

Kantplay

B2B TST

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan

Kantplay

Kantplay

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan

Kantplay

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan

B2B TST

B2B TST

Kantplay

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan

B2B TST

Red Fox Warrior

Red Ryu|John2k4

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Red Ryu|John2k4

Red Ryu|John2k4

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Red Ryu|John2k4

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Red Fox Warrior

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Red Fox Warrior

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan

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Red Fox Warrior

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Summoned from a trading card

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