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Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion XL

#HBC | Ryker

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Ban it, unfortunately. It's a great stage, but even with the proposed surgical ruling (that I hate) you run into all sorts of logistics issues. Aku will probably be a common character and what the hell would you do in a stage striking format with him?

:phone:
 

Tyranitarphantom

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After further testing, it seems that the Aku laser problem on Ben 10-2 was just a random glitch, as I can't recreate it, even with the exact same circumstances.
 

ShadowPhoenix951

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The only circumstances were that we were Aku vs. anyone, on the lower half of the stage. SH Laser was the only way to perform it, as grounded was normal. (I'm the one who found it, just for reference).
 

#HBC | Ryker

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And how long did the glitch happen? Until the console was reset?

@Fuelbi - I was going to, but I failed to hit the damn record button and lost a couple hours of footage. I found that out the day after. Now my crew has disappeared into the abyss that is their relative's houses for Christmas. I'll get some up, but it'll be about a week.
 

Tyranitarphantom

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The glitch occurred with Aku's short hop laser, on the bottom of Ben 10 2. It did 21% per hit, regardless of character. It was first noticed when used against Him. Aku was in his 5th, unlockable costume, and Him was in his default costume. We made no attempt to reset the console at the time, but when I tried to do it again the next day (with the same console), it was back to normal.

EDIT: ****BALLS. I figured it out.

[Official Statement]

The glitch occurs when two human players have a match on Ben 10 2. One human is Aku (costume color doesn't matter), the other human can be any character. Short hopped laser from Aku, on the lower level, from a distance (point blank, it does normal damage), causes it to do rapid damage UNTIL THE MOVE ENDS (either it just ends, or it ends because it autocancels upon Aku touching the ground). If done as a shorthopped rising laser, the laser ends after having done 21% damage. Standing in a specific spot on the stage also seems to reduce the damage done. Because of the random nature of this glitch, I reccommend that Ben 10 2 be banned in official tournaments.
 

Milun

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@Sold2

Maaaaaaaaaan that tier list is waaaaaaay off. For starters, Aku isn't at the top of it.

Splice, when me and Tim we're playing, we found a new strategy with Aku. It goes as follows:

Up-B more, Laser less. The End.

No really. The thing about Aku's up B is, you CAN hit him at the start of it, but if you do, you actually make it better. Instead of rising up, Aku will go straight to his Starfish portion of the Up-B while low on the ground, and since you're next to him in order to hit him, it'll actually punish you for hitting him .

I don't ever, EVER want to see a tier list without Aku at the top. He can beat Blossom with just Up-B. Also, I believe it was mentioned some time ago that Fosters Home was a bad stage for him. While version timic83, we found that it's actually really good for him. There's a nice ceiling at the top which he can repeatedly spam Up-B under.

In fact, here's Aku in a nutshell: http://youtu.be/7-s4vMMe6tc
 

DtJ S2n

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I'm pretty sure you can't just throw out a ton of random up-b's. The risk/reward doesn't even make sense for it. If you miss it, you'll potentially lose a stock (really depends on the stage/char). If you hit it, you're doing what, 20% and a pretty good kill move.

We'll play around with it today but I really don't think this is anything that's going to put him above Blossom.
 

Milun

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I'm pretty sure you can't just throw out a ton of random up-b's.
You really, really can. Aku has 5 jumps, and amazing air mobility, which he can use even after his Up-B to rescue himself. I had about twenty matches versing my friend timic (who is a much better Smash player than I) and he lost, every single one, because I was using Aku and he wasn't. He tried using K'nuckles, and he lost because he kept hitting me as I was starting the Up-B, which resulted in what I mentioned before, and finished him off instead.

Oh yeh, and Aku's Up-B hits (just barely) below him. So if you try to approach from underneath, there's a chance you'll be hit by it too. Aku is just too good.
 

M3D

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One of you competitive players needs to upload some videos for this. I would consider getting it for my PS3 if its good. Does it have online play?
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Unfortunately it does not have online play.

I've got the technology to upload, but my crew is dispersed for Christmas shenanigans. I had intended to get it uploaded before that, but I had failed to hit the record button before our five hour session.
 

DtJ S2n

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Highlight of the video: me playing Donkey Kong in the background.

We played around with the Aku up-b thing. Still don't get it. Blossom can Ice Breath it, K'nuckles can space f-air on it. Grabs just plain beat it for an obvious reason. Projectiles obviously work too. Or you can just shield it and they're still in a bad position. And if you do happen to get hit it's only something around 20%. Again, the risk/reward isn't worth it vs most characters. However it is an amazing anti-air. You can't approach from above Aku at the very least. Unless your name is Bubbles.
 

Tyranitarphantom

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Yeah, Aku's up B is a great move, but in no way does it make him better than Blossom. Sheilding beats it, and leaves Aku vulnerable to punishment by just about anything. It's probably the best anti-air in the game, and makes being above Aku incredibly unsafe.

But for most characters, it's safer to just stay away from Aku and use projectiles, or simply rush in and beat him with faster moves.

That's not to say that most characters have an easy time approaching Aku, but that's what separates good characters from the bad, yeah?
 

Ryu Shimazu

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So... is this game legit fun, like worth 40 dollars, or wait for a price drop? XD
 

Claire Diviner

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I'm gonna wait for the price drop, personally. I plan on getting two copies; one for the Wii and the other for the PS3, the latter of which I can get trophies for.
 

John2k4

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Alright, *just* got the game, gotta say it's pretty interesting so far.
 

Splice

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Milun at the very least UpB might help you more vs the K'nuckles Matchup which ive hardly played, but ive seen enough to know he's better than where we placed him on the tier list.

But basically if you played against Redact or anyone else who is good with those high tiers like blossom and grim and buttercup then you would understand why I apply Aku cautiously with laser and space to win those games instead of... mashing UpB? lol.

@Sold and the tier list: Interesting. I agree (or can't say enough to disagree) with most of it. I just think Grim and K'nuckles are better than Vilgax and Bubbles. At the very least, I think Grim and K'nuckles are surely in the same tier as Vilgax, i think you overestimate Vilgax a bit. Also, we found Bubbles to be pretty terrible, she doesnt doesnt have the speed and rushdown ability and such of Buttercup and Blossom, although she may be better at killing then Buttercup.
Anyway, congratulations on making that tier list.
 

DtJ S2n

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The big thing about Grim and K'nuckles that we've decided puts them in high tier and not top tier is that their recoveries and PTEs are freaking garbage. They both also have no way to get around certain match-ups, i.e. K'nuckles vs Mojo Jojo (or Dexter who gets the title of Mojo Jojo Jr.) is absolutely horrible. The characters who are in Top Tier all have workable recoveries which is really important, and all but Aku have good PTEs. Blossom less so but it's still alright. I don't think any of the top tiers we have listed have any particularly bad match-ups.

You've got Buttercup and Bubbles reversed. Bubbles doesn't kill until 250%(!) but she has the speed and projectile to make that not matter. Bubbles d-air does 11%. It also goes through platforms, is near infinite range (it's range goes from magnifier of final boss to just below the stage), has a nice angle on it, is fast, is unclankable... it's really probably the best move in the game (yes better than aku laser). Bubbles also happens to have 4 jumps and an up-b that fits her extremely well and gets nonsense distance. Her side-b also helps her movement. I'm also fairly sure she has the highest airspeed in the game. On certain stages (ones with lots of platforms) approaching bubbles is an absolute nightmare and I'd say impossible for a majority of the cast. It's even difficult for Blossom. Blossom is great at approaching, but not vertically. A lot of characters(like blossom) can attempt to swat bubbles down with a move like Blossom down-b, but that's a losing battle. Nobody is good at approaching vertically... except Scotsman.

Then going beyond the fact that Bubbles is the most obnoxious camper in the game, she has great approaches and great combos. Full hop into d-air d-air grab(b-throw) sh u-air x10 or something, finish with u-smash or up-b is ~120% and a ton of PTE meter for bubbles. Honestly I think she can combo longer than that but I just haven't gotten it down yet. Her f-smash and d-smash have decent knockback to put foes off stage (though they won't start killing until the 200s), and bubbles has really strong edgeguarding too. She builds a ton of damage this way and then she can net a kill from edgeguarding or she can combo into her kill moves very safely. She's just way too safe and racks up so much damage very quickly. Oh, and her PTE is very good. Free kill at like 80%+, easy to combo into, can then tack some damage into the next stock. Bubbles is literally broken at EVERYTHING except killing.

Vilgax is weird but really good. His f-air shuts out entire characters, it's like k'nuckles f-air but slower. He has very nice anti-airs. He has a lot of really long lasting, huge hitboxes that do a lot of damage. He kills early and reliably. His recovery is great. All his moves rack up tons of PTE meter, and his PTE is the best in the game. He has a single weakness, he's tall. His match-ups are incredibly solid. The only character that I can really say has a winning match-up on him is Blossom because she can just kill very fast making his PTE less of a big deal and is unaffected by f-air. She still has to get around moves like his d-smash though.
 

Serris

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Are there any significant differences between the Wii and PS3 versions? I'm thinking of picking this up, if only for something to do on the weekends.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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PS3 you can get Trophies on, the Wii let's you play with a familiar GC controller that will probably make it tournament standard.
 

Splice

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Sold2; are you saying Bubbles Dair even beats Akus vertical approach with UpB? Because he does have a lot of priority on that. That's interesting.

I'll have to try bubbles more, my experience with her is mostly spamming the scream move over the course of 2 games that I played as her at a meet, and then someone left the meet because they got so annoyed, and I haven't used bubbles much since. (true story :s)

I wish this game had wifi or something :c
 

ShadowPhoenix951

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Also, even if Aku's Up B did beat projectiles, if Bubbles is properly camping, Aku's Up B doesn't reach that high. You're way, way, way overrating it. It's good if someone's landing or crossing you up. , and it's good if you combo into it. Other than that, it's really not that good of a move.
 

DtJ S2n

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Sold2; are you saying Bubbles Dair even beats Akus vertical approach with UpB? Because he does have a lot of priority on that. That's interesting.
Yes. I really do think Bubbles d-air is the single best move in the game, and it's on the character that can abuse it the very hardest (okay maybe Captain Planet could abuse it harder). It's really good to think of this move like melee Falco's laser... except it shoots downward and it does 11%. You can camp with it, you can poke with it, you can approach with it, it's a combo tool, it's the entire character. Bravo up-b is the only move that's particularly good at anti-airing Bubbles and Bubbles doesn't have to put up with that either.

I'll have to try bubbles more, my experience with her is mostly spamming the scream move over the course of 2 games that I played as her at a meet, and then someone left the meet because they got so annoyed, and I haven't used bubbles much since. (true story :s)
Scream is horrible. It's slow and it's actually punishable on hit. It does have one use though. If you have PTE, it sets up for her PTE extremely well. Dropping a bubbles scream on someone 80+ with a PTE is essentially a free stock, even if they shield it they're done. They have to roll before it starts. It is an extremely annoying sound if that's what you mean though :x. Bubbles D-air is an even more annoying sound. I'd actually say Bubbles d-air is the most annoying sound (even more than Aku laser). It tries really hard to break TV speakers, I swear.

I wish this game had wifi or something :c
Agreed, though the wifi would probably be glitchy and horribly laggy lmao.
 

Splice

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Also, even if Aku's Up B did beat projectiles, if Bubbles is properly camping, Aku's Up B doesn't reach that high. You're way, way, way overrating it. It's good if someone's landing or crossing you up. , and it's good if you combo into it. Other than that, it's really not that good of a move.
how am i overrating akus upb? Im not the one who suggested you can win by just spamming upb lol...

I didnt even know Bubbles Dair was projectile, I don't have the game at home the last time I saw bubbles was like 2 or 3 weeks ago. Perhaps im underestimating Bubbles Dair, no?

@Sold2: I never had any intention of implying Bubbles' Scream was a good move. I was just spamming it for the lulz, and someone who was playing another game a few metres away went home because they found the noise so annoying. It really does try its best to break the tv speakers, It's definitely the most annoying noise in the game. Except maybe the narrator during story mode.
 

DtJ S2n

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Oh I thought you were saying he went home because he couldn't figure out how to fight bubbles neutral-b lmao. You could win SETS with that scream man. Entire SETS.
 

Tyranitarphantom

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Went ahead and wrote up a guide for Vilgax, to be placed into the original post. I plan on writing one for Mojo Jojo and Ben 10 soon. Still needs stages section, but we here in KY are unsure of a real stagelist, so I chose to leave that section empty for now

[COLLAPSE="Lots of text"]Overview:

Vilgax is an interesting character, to say the least. He is phenomenal at keeping foes out thanks to his huge, sometimes nonsense, moves. As the game guide states, he is a bit slow, but makes up for it by being one of the strongest (if not the strongest) character in the game. He is incredibly good at racking up damage, and thanks to his smash attacks and Punch Time (arguably the best PT in the game), he gets KOs very easily too. We consider Vilgax to be among the best characters in the game.

PROS:
- Fair keeps any character who isn't PPG sized out, with little way to get in
- Down Smash has incredible range and power, including a tipper hit that does 25% uncharged. Kills very early (~110% on most characters)
- All of his moves deal very high damage
- Has the best Punch Time in the game
- Good combos that rack damage incredibly fast
- Practically un-gimpable recovery

CONS:
- Large target
- Ground moves are a bit sluggish
- Has difficulty vs some projectile-based characters, such as Aku and Ben 10

Moves:
-Jab: Upwards slash, horizontal slash, downwards slash
- Hit 1 = 4%, 1 crystal*
- Hit 2 = 5%, 1 crystal*
- Hit 3 = 6%, 1 crystal
-Up Tilt: Quick upwards stab. 14%, 4 crystals
-Down Tilt: Sweeps sword in front of him. 13%, 3 crystals
-Dash Attack: Charges forward, surrounded by red aura. 14%, 4 crystals
-Forward Smash: Slashes straight in front of him. 19%-28%, 4 cystals
-Up Smash: Punches upwards in front of him. 26%-38%, 4 crystals
-Down Smash: Slashes his sword downwards in front of him, then draws it over his head and brings it down behind him. 21%-31% (when hit with blade), 25%-37% (when hit with tip of sword), 4 crystals. Back hit has higher knockback
-Neutral Air: Swings sword in a circle around him. 12%, 3 crystals
-Forward Air: Slashes sword in front of him very quickly. 16%, 4 crystals
-Up Air: Swings sword in a circle above him. 12%, 3 crystals
-Down Air: Thrusts sword below him. 18%, 4 crystals
-Neutral B: Shoots a laser at his feet, and continues it in a rising arc. 6%, 1 crystal. Unlike Aku's laser, nothing changes when used in the air. Shorter than Aku's.
-Side B: Twirls sword in front of him, dealing multiple hits. 8% per hit, 2 crystals per hit. Can trap foe for up to 5 hits
-Up B: Rises up slightly, then jets forward and upward. Rising hit - 7%, 1 crystal. Jet - 15%, 4 crystals. A highly useful recovery move, though it is incredibly hard to hit with the jet.
-Down B: Brings out his shield in front of him, dealing a heavy blow and blocking projectiles. 16%, 4 crystals. Can only be held for a short time.
-Grab: toss enemy in direction of your choice. Decent range, 9%.
-Punch Time: True Vilgax: Vilgax transforms into his "true form", a giant octopus. Completely invincible, swings his tentacles rapidly all around him. Player controls his movement. Each hit does 10%, 2 crystals. Unblockable, impossible to avoid with most characters. Lasts 8 seconds. Generally considered to be the best Punch Time in the game.

* Jab 1 & 2 have two hitboxes on them, both doing the listed amount of damage. Against certain characters, it's possible to have both hits of Jab 1 & 2 connect, doubling the damage of the hits.

Strategy:

Versus taller characters such as K'nuckles, Captain Planet, and Him, Vilgax needs little more than Fair to completely shut those characters down. The same applies to characters such as Aku and Ben 10, when up close, though you have to be careful getting that close, as they both have quick projectiles that make them very dangerous.

Versus just about any character, DSmash is a great option to keep them from getting close to you. DownB is a great option to stop characters who have somehow gotten close to you. Jab and shorthop Dair are also good options when a character gets close.

If a character is above you, Utilt or Uair are good options to hit them. Utilt can combo into itself at low percents and can deal lots of damage quickly. Tossing the opponent into the air and following up with Uairs is a great way to take away your opponent's options, forcing them to land where you want them to, and hitting them with a DSmash for it.

On stages with walk-off edges, it's worth noting that Vilgax' FSmash hits completely horizontal, meaning that if you can pressure your opponent to the edge, you can end their stock fairly early with a good Fsmash.

For those of you unfamiliar with how this game works, when hit in the air, your midair jump(s) are restored. This makes gimping much less viable in this game. Vilgax' Up B, while a poor offensive tool, is an excellent recovery. It is quick and very hard to hit him out of.

One of Vilgax' greatest assets is his incredible Punch Time. It is almost a guaranteed stock from the opponent, and often gets lots of damage on the next stock too. What makes it even more threatening is how easy it is for Vilgax to build meter. Most of his good moves knock 4 crystals out of the enemy, and if you pick them all up, you'll have built up your meter in no time at all. During your PT, you'll knock plenty of crystals out of the opponent, and it's very possibly to build half a meter while using your PT, making it that much scarier.

Stages:
Coming soon
[/COLLAPSE]
 

Tyranitarphantom

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Don't suck. It's an uphill battle to convince people he needs to be higher as it is.

On the subject of Dexter and guides, I plan on writing one.
It took me forever to convince others to put him in high tier when KY was drafting up our tier list.

Dexter is legit
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Thank God that someone gets me. Now someone needs to convince ME that Vilgax and Buttercup belong that high.

Someone create a PTE skype group.
 
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