Final Fantasy Tactics Mafia: Game finally over! Raziek lynched, Town wins! Lego too!

Inferno....

This is one of those times where you let it rest for now....

Inferno3044 said:

We don't even know what Gova did. We know that he visited Gheb.

Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqyixwqiCag&feature=related

Of course not, yet you immediately assumed I was scum.

Gova said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqyixwqiCag&feature=related

Of course not, yet you immediately assumed I was scum.

Click to expand...

With the mindset I went into this situation it made sense. I saw Raziek's watcher claim as an opportunity to nail scum, knowing that I was one of the people that visited him. I'm not clearing you but I'm not gonna tunnel this. The information is out and people can take whatever they want out of it.

Kantrip said:

Inferno....

This is one of those times where you let it rest for now....

Click to expand...

Fine. Sang, who are you looking at right now?

vla till Friday

Recent developments makes me oppose the idea of massclaiming D2 completely. So far all the claims around Raz watching me have caused confusion and pointless speculation. Any option is equally likely as the other - yeah, Gova could've tried to kill me but there's no guarantee that Inferno couldn't have done it considering haste is a class ability and can be used by any alignment.
I doubt that Raziek is lying about his claim considering that results match with his claim but that still doesn't confirm his alignment and I don't like the player still. If anything, it makes me doubt that the guy who put Ryker and myself on the chopping block "visited" me ... which is kind of pointless to know as far as I can see.

I'd rather proceed to scumhunt regularly for now.

@Sang

What about Kantrip's claim doesn't line up? Nich's claim supposedly did line up well so if we find a contradiction in Kantrip's claim I think we can all agree to lynch him toDay.

And of course, there's still the possibility that none of them actually tried to kill me ... which doesn't exclude that one of them could be scum and only adds to the NA Wifom. So yeah, I think for now we should stop it before we lose track completely.

I'd also like Xonar / Glife to stop these silly semantic arguments and discuss other things. Glife getting defensive over this is understandable considering that a bunch of people are getting on his nerves over something that isn't really a scumtell and up to personal definition too. I can see why Lego is getting annoyed by it though considering a lot of what Glife posts isn't relevant or conclusive.

What intrigues me the most is the fact that all 3 people who visited me are people I mentioned I'd look into D2 yesterDay. I still greatly mistrust all of them and am particularly annoyed by how many people lean town on Raz for no reason [atm I don't consider his role claim a valid reason]. If Kantrip's claim can be verified as town - or his full claim lines up well - then I'd say we should strongly consider the lynch of one of these 3 players.

First off,Unvotehad time to cool my head while at class yesterday.

SangfroidWarrior said:

@Orbo. You seem to have commented a lot on Lego v Glyph, but there has been nothing substantial that couldn't have gone unsaid. Could you give me some actual thoughts on it, like some good and bad from each person's argument, or where you think the logic is flawed? Also, if you really think Glyph is scum, give me at least one solid reasoning that you didn't get from Lego.

Click to expand...

Points for Lego:
-Pointing out glyph's lack of scumpicks
-I agree with him on the "liability lynch" thing
-lack of stances for people to see
Points for Glyph
-many of his posts were actually pertinent to the discussion when read correctly
...yea.
As for glyph scum, i wasn't to set on that, the vote was more me getting frustrated overall and doing something i shouldn't have.

Inferno3044 said:

Well I'm going by assumptions which haven't actually been proven. For example I am going by the assumption that Ryker and Gheb were visited which hasn't been proven yet. It makes sense though. To do something to someone you gotta visit them right?

Click to expand...

Not always. There are certain actions that do not require you to be visited, they simply float over the surface. Now, I'm not saying that he's innocent just yet, but I'm not saying he's guilty.

Inferno3044 said:

Fine. Sang, who are you looking at right now?

Click to expand...

My reads post remains the same, with the exception that Glyph is lower on my chart. I'm looking at Orbo, Rajam, RR, and you. The first two are scum reads, the second two are nulls.

Gheb_01 said:

@Sang

What about Kantrip's claim doesn't line up? Nich's claim supposedly did line up well so if we find a contradiction in Kantrip's claim I think we can all agree to lynch him toDay.

Click to expand...

His night action is the only thing but, as I told Kantrip, I need to think about a few things before I explain. I won't delay it for long so we're not scrambling by the end of the Day, but I do want to at least wait until tomorrow (as in Friday) or Saturday so I have more time to dedicate to it.

Gheb_01 said:

What intrigues me the most is the fact that all 3 people who visited me are people I mentioned I'd look into D2 yesterDay. I still greatly mistrust all of them and am particularly annoyed by how many people lean town on Raz for no reason [atm I don't consider his role claim a valid reason]. If Kantrip's claim can be verified as town - or his full claim lines up well - then I'd say we should strongly consider the lynch of one of these 3 players.

Click to expand...

Did we seriously out three people targetting Gheb for no goddamn reason? Can I get the cliff notes on why, who's idea it was, and the results? I'll read and respond next time I'm on a computer. For now, cliff notes will help me a lot.

Did anything else extremely big happen, Gheb?

Ryker said:

Did we seriously out three people targetting Gheb for no goddamn reason? Can I get the cliff notes on why, who's idea it was, and the results? I'll read and respond next time I'm on a computer. For now, cliff notes will help me a lot.

Click to expand...

thiiiiiiiis guy

then

thiiiiiissss guyyyyyy

I'm on high alert w.r.t Raziek. Can't really say more at this point. Gheb's recent posts are disgusting imo. Want to reread that dude, might do so later. Kind of busy today. Sword got his internet back iirc, so I'll ask him to be your host for today.

After class this mourning I'll gladly be your host today. I probably owe this game some of my time anyways by now.

Execute Vote:
Gheb - Ryker
Ryker - Gheb

Standard Vote Count:
Kantrip - Ryker, Red Ryu,
Legolas - MOD, MOD
Inferno - Rajam
Gova - Inferno,

Not voting: Raziek, Legolas, Kantrip, Gova, Sangfroid Warrior, Glyph, Gheb, Orbo,

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is Wednesday, Feb. 29th at 3 p.m. EST

Insulted: Raziek, Legolas, Ryker, Orbo, Inferno, Kantrip, Gova, Red Ryu, Rajam, Sangfroid Warrior, Glyph, Gheb

If I missed anything send me a PM with a link to the post.

Ryker said:

Did anything else extremely big happen, Gheb?

Click to expand...

The only thing I know of that did happen to me was that I'm put on the chopping block now but I don't even know whether that's a NA at all or not. So by my knowlegde - since I wasn't notified of anything - nothing "extremely big" happened. I think enough happened already 0_0

(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:) said:

Gheb's recent posts are disgusting imo.

Click to expand...

Ur mom is disgusting imo.

But seriously, I have something to say do it now. I'm really losing patience with you "being busy" and "having to talk to Sword" all the time.

EBWOP:

Gheb_01 said:

But seriously, if you have something to say do it now. I'm really losing patience with you "being busy" and "having to talk to Sword" all the time.

Click to expand...

Fixed

Legolas, why haven't you insulted Ryker yet? Probably should get on that.

I'm ready to hear Raziek's results, unless someone else is opposed to that.

I think at that point it's just Raziek verifying what we already heard so he might as well do that.

Ryker is a weeaboo who's ideal woman is a loli.

Xonar wanted to make an epic insult to Ryker, but this will have to do. Maybe we can add another insult later.

This is the better, more American half of the hydra here.

Okay, first thing is first, I haven't reed everything because quite frankly it's boring and long and from PoE I already have an idea of whom I like/don't like.

1. Raziek - use to be okay with this guy having him as a town lean but recent devolpments make us wary of him as stated earlier and we're still deciding about what to do with this guy

3. Ryker - town
4. NickelbackR0cks [Orbo] - leans scum
5. Inferno3044 - lean town
7. T-block/Kantrip - town
8. Gova - null
9. Red Ryu - leans town
10. Rajam - indie?
11. Seph Sangfroid Warrior - town
12. Glyph - null
13. Gheb - leans scum

Gheb: Our problem with Gheb stems from some of his posts that feel unnecessary. In these upcoming posts he either has a tendency to put too much effort commenting on something insignificant or play the town director (the guy who tells everyone what to do/think). It's a critique without a real stance. It doesn't feel like a natural townie mindset and thus reads fake to us.

Here, let me quote my evidence:

Gheb_01 said:

Lego is really annoying me atm because of his constant hydra-related excuses to not take harder stances and Xonar's constant "mini-derps" [such as voting in the same post he claims to be voteblocked] kind of remind me of how he's played F&L mafia. I still don't like him and want to bring the fact to people's attention that the Nich lynch -> Kantrip lynch is a blatant rip-off of what Ryker and I have been pushing for yesterDay. People seem to have no issues with what he's doing. Just because he's not scummy doesn't mean people should be so indifferent about how he's playing right now.

That goes for you too, Raz minus the meta part @F&L and the fact that you aren't in a hydra. You haven't offered us more than the Gova case and if you also join to Kantrip train then you're basically wasting another Day adding old news.

Click to expand...

This is the first post where I noticed the tendency as described above. The thing about it is that he spends pretty much the entire posts criticizing town, telling them what they should be doing, rather then simply go after us. That said he latter did go after us which makes this post null, BUT it leads into these next post where Gheb continues his tendencies of going out of his way to make unneeded and play the town director.

Gheb_01 said:

Recent developments makes me oppose the idea of massclaiming D2 completely. So far all the claims around Raz watching me have caused confusion and pointless speculation. Any option is equally likely as the other - yeah, Gova could've tried to kill me but there's no guarantee that Inferno couldn't have done it considering haste is a class ability and can be used by any alignment.
I doubt that Raziek is lying about his claim considering that results match with his claim but that still doesn't confirm his alignment and I don't like the player still. If anything, it makes me doubt that the guy who put Ryker and myself on the chopping block "visited" me ... which is kind of pointless to know as far as I can see.

I'd rather proceed to scumhunt regularly for now.

@Sang

What about Kantrip's claim doesn't line up? Nich's claim supposedly did line up well so if we find a contradiction in Kantrip's claim I think we can all agree to lynch him toDay.

Click to expand...

Black is Gheb putting in a lot of effort to not say much of anything.

Gheb_01 said:

And of course, there's still the possibility that none of them actually tried to kill me ... which doesn't exclude that one of them could be scum and only adds to the NA Wifom. So yeah, I think for now we should stop it before we lose track completely.

I'd also like Xonar / Glife to stop these silly semantic arguments and discuss other things. Glife getting defensive over this is understandable considering that a bunch of people are getting on his nerves over something that isn't really a scumtell and up to personal definition too. I can see why Lego is getting annoyed by it though considering a lot of what Glife posts isn't relevant or conclusive.

Click to expand...

The bold is uneeded advice dog. Underlined is a stance that goes back in on itself.

Gheb_01 said:

What intrigues me the most is the fact that all 3 people who visited me are people I mentioned I'd look into D2 yesterDay. I still greatly mistrust all of them and am particularly annoyed by how many people lean town on Raz for no reason [atm I don't consider his role claim a valid reason]. If Kantrip's claim can be verified as town - or his full claim lines up well - then I'd say we should strongly consider the lynch of one of these 3 players.

Click to expand...

underlined is safe ways of phrasing things, and an example of playing town director out of nowhere.

These posts are more or less what I described above. Posts that are either unneeded w/ too much energy put into them to be saying and/or playing the town director.

What Gheb's talking about in these posts do not feel provoked. The first post quoted (1005) he starts out talking about massclaiming, and while people were talking about it for awhile I don't recall it being of recent discussion. It feels like town Gheb probably should of been more concerned with other matters than that, but instead he pretty much just busys himself with that topic and playing the town director, ultimately simply going over that we don't know anything for sure wrt Night actions. Sure it's true but he spends way more energy than he needs to to say that and it is coming out of the left field.

I don't really even need to analysis the second and third post. It's an extension of the same first post. Unprovoked, Gheb is playing the town director/saying a lot of words, but not saying much.

Now, is this really enough to find Gheb as full out scum? No, admittingly it's only a couple posts that our bothering us. Nevertheless, it makes him lean more scum than Ryker, which is why we believe he should have to die toDay.


Glyph & Gova: I have these two as null because I really don't know what to make of them. Xonar likes them as scum but I'm not too sure. In any case we both agree that they NEED to post MORE stances and that not doing so will NOT be tolerated. We also agree that focusing all of our efforts on them would be counterproductive.

Also Glyph please refer to our 969. You've still haven't provided what it was that you've supposedly gained from Nich's flip despite the fact that Xonar has asked you three times now.

At the end of the day, what really bothers us is there lack of stances. Get on it.

Sang: Didn't read her whole catch up post, but I got the general gist of it. I can already tell that she's genuinely concerned about finding scum w/ her catch up list/the questions she has been asking, so I'm comfortable having her as town.

Inferno: Feel like the effort is there. Xonar told me that he has been making moves that seem too risky for Inferno scum. I'll believe him on that. If you want more details then ask him cus he knows.

Ryker: Day 1 push on Nich felt legit. Also toDay I saw several instances of Ryker showing concern about other player's thoughts, which shows me that he isn't just playing to his own agenda. In other words, he's being a team player which I like. Town.

Orboknown: More or less what everyone else has said. He's coasty and when he does post it's very sheepy and safe. Could be just newbie town not knowing what to do, but I lean that he's just honestly not putting genuine effort into the game.

Kantrip: We like Kantrip due to how his play here does not feel like scum Kantrip play at all. I do not think that scum Kantrip would defend Nich so much like he did. Scum Kantrip is much more agreeable, going with the flow of things rather than creating controversy. Thus I don't think Kantrip would of put himself in such a risky position as scum.

Rajam: Nothing more to say to him. Recent posts with Inferno suspicion do nothing for me.

RR: I honestly forgot this guy was in the game. Case against Kantrip was pretty terrible and reachy. Otherwise felt that he's been playing solid with his 1vs.1 of Glyph and overall willingness to scumhunt/take stances.

So yeah, it goes without saying that we endorse Gheb be executed and one of Orbo/Gova/Glyph and maybe Raz being lynched toDay.

Questions to follow later. That post was tiring to make. @_@

I made that post expecting a Nichscum flip. I didn't have anywhere to go with it on a town flip

Glyph who is scum?

Alright, just to have it black and white.

Gova/Glyph,

Who out of Ryker/Gheb should be executed?
Who are we going to look at? I want more than 1 pick.

That is an awful lot of work for 'a couple posts that our bothering us'. You seem to toe the line between calling Gheb actually scum and just scummier than Ryker, which I would disagree with thus far. I don't know which one I'd rather keep around, but the fact that Ryker has stated that Gheb is a town read for him makes me think we should keep Gheb.

Black on white even.

And ninja.

RR jesus read some of my posts today and you'll see I've gone over that

DtJ Glyphmoney said:

That is an awful lot of work for 'a couple posts that our bothering us'. You seem to toe the line between calling Gheb actually scum and just scummier than Ryker, which I would disagree with thus far. I don't know which one I'd rather keep around, but the fact that Ryker has stated that Gheb is a town read for him makes me think we should keep Gheb.

Click to expand...

Honestly we are not sure if we think Gheb is scum at this point. What we do know is that we doubt him more than Ryker, and we have posts pointed out to back up our suspicion. We also think the way he exaggerated pressure on D1 was questionable, but we do not think it to be worthy of being called scummy. Overall we'd rather have a Ryker in endgame than Gheb. We think Gheb is more questionable, which, in this situation, is all the reason we need.

Glyph you said you think we should look at Kantrip, which I disagree on.

You also said you have suspicions regarding another person, who would this person be? Or do you want to keep it silent still? In that case, I will refer back to your reply later on the day.

Which is why I'd love to hear more picks from you.

Other person can wait until after we hear Raziek's results.

DtJ Glyphmoney said:

RR, I want you to tell me exactly what issues people have with me that I did not address. I want you to explain how my reads not moving fluidly (ie, not documenting every change in them) makes me scum. I want you to read my post where I explain EXACTLY why I did the gambit and why it was necessary for me. In said post, you'll also find answers to, well, everything else you are saying I didn't do here.

Click to expand...

Jarring changes tend to me scum trying to force a read for some purpose.

Good example is Ryker in Lost mafia, notice how Kevin votes me for a real BS reason Ryker calls him out on it for distrust on his purpose and his read on me, then he flips around saying I don't like RR and joins the wagon. Quick changes show fake reads because it's not nature reading to find scum.

Having a town read then only a short time later pulling a gambit to get a read on him, as if you were unsure then.

That seems rather sudden to me.

That is why I think quick changes in reads like this are bad.

There is no 'jarring change'. I go from a VERY weak town read, to null, to slight scum, to strong scum.

Its already as spelt out as I can make it.

That's just whack as ****. Of course I'm playing the town director when I strongly think that discussion is going the wrong way. That's why I tell people to take the claims with a grain of salt. That's why I provoke discussion about lynching Raz, Gova or Inferno. What else am I supposed to do? I'm not OK with where the is going atm after like all the active players tunneled on a mislynch yesterDay and toDay has been largely centered around 3 claims not helping us in any way right now. Why should I not tell town what to do / give advice when I feel that way?

You're really nit-picky about "not posting content". You have found three absolutely minor instances of me "not saying anything", "phrase things safely" and "give advice" - nothing of that could be directly or indirectly concluded to be scummy. Looking at it in context - the amount of content I have provided makes it seem downright ridiculous to say that I spend my time doing what you accuse me of.

Pretty much the same pseudo-case you made on Glife btw, except that it applies a lot less on me. You've still done nothing ... especially if we take the fact into account that I'm supposedly your strongest scum read [possibly tied with Orbo] based on ... 3 instances of me doing things you think "feel unprovoked".

Alright, instead of replying to that too in-depth (except if you want me too), why don't you tell us why we should lynch Gova/Raz/Inferno? I'd like an easy, compact explanation on each which I should easily spot when reading through the thread (which I will do after this list). Instead of commenting on that we should look into lynching them, give me reasons and stuff to go with it. A stance with back-up found in evidence.

I'm supposedly your strongest scum read [possibly tied with Orbo] based on ... 3 instances of me doing things you think "feel unprovoked".

Click to expand...

Yes, Sword's best scum read is Orbo. He also fully supports Raz pressure just like me. We talked about you because we feel like we should give our opinion w.r.t you because, while we don't vote, we do have to deal with the execution vote here and lynching the right choice. For us that choice is you, if only for the fact that we trust Ryker more. I support a Gova lynch at this point and Glyph pressure too, but I want to give Glyph some space because I feel like that would be the most productive thing to do.

I disagree with your comparison on what we think about you and what we think about Glyph, btw. Glyph we think has not been taking stances and has shown a lack of scumhunting, not to mention he had some ugly stuff in there. W.r.t you we are more thrown off by suggesting things without much power behind them and overall commentary style posting. We'd rather take Ryker with us.

(small elaboration)
Not to say you mainly post commentary style.

(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:) said:

Alright, just to have it black and white.

Gova/Glyph,

Who out of Ryker/Gheb should be executed?
Who are we going to look at? I want more than 1 pick.

Click to expand...

I would execute Gheb. Ryker is easier to cooperate with and is more open with town and in some cases can even be bargained with. Gheb is more closeted and sometimes won't give his opinion or answer questions when asked for them.

Alright, now part 2.

Who are we going to look at? I want more than 1 pick.

You remember my wall? You can go check there.

941?

-Raziek - Can take him off the list for now I guess due to his claim. I originally didn't like him due his reason-less stances in conjunction of calling out other people for bad/no reasoning.
-Orbo - I'm picking up Nich's accusation here. As I said earlier, his accusation is becoming more and more true the longer the game goes on.
-Inferno - More or less the same as Orbo's just being applied to a different person.
-Legolas - His #255 made by Sword doesn't sit well me. I think his point system is BS and just a way appear to be offering insight on posts or act like he's actually gaining stuff from them. Not to mention that I don't think it's accurate. After your post, you'll see something I don't like below. This one is more gut than anything.

Click to expand...

Alright.

Raziek can be removed because claim (??why)
Orbo/Inferno same reasoning as each other, which is calling back on "nichs accusation".
Legolas is mostly gut.

This won't do. Give us better stances. Pull up quotes and references to back it up.

Because I'm assuming people probably don't want to lynch a claimed watcher.

Also Gova:

I think his point system is BS and just a way appear to be offering insight on posts or act like he's actually gaining stuff from them. Not to mention that I don't think it's accurate

Click to expand...

Why did you think Swords point system was "BS?" What reasoning led you to the conclusion that he's just "acting like he's gaining stuff?"