New/Creative Competitive Stage Elements

Dan Salvato · Oct 5, 2012

Sup! I was talking to my stud Massive about stage elements. We decided that there is a lot of potential for new stage elements that would heighten competitive play. I'm about to dive into stage hacking, so this is where you come up with neat stage ideas! Here is one design we came up with:

There are several unique elements to this stage. For one, the ground is curved into a hill. This alone changes a lot of character strategy. Depending on your positioning relative to your opponent, your hitboxes may connect better or worse because your opponent will be slightly higher or lower. Furthermore, projectile game is changed heavily. Fox and Falco are unable to laser camp, and Falco specifically needs to be much more cautious about his laser approaches. However, characters with lobbing projectiles will have a little better luck.

The second interesting element is the slanted platforms, Massive's idea. Slanted platforms are really interesting because the player can change his vertical position simply by moving left or right on the platform. This makes platform tech chasing more interesting, and characters who poke through platforms must take advantage of positioning for greater success.

Overall, this stage design gives lower tiers a little more to work with in terms of approaching, avoiding camping, and mixing up. In our opinion, it would be a fine addition to competitive play.

So, what other neat stage elements can you come up with? With growing stage hacking experience, I may be able to make your ideas a reality!

Massive · Oct 5, 2012

Another generic/neutral stage that is not available in melee.

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This stage is a lot shallower and does not disrupt horizontal attacks.

Like Yoshi's story, the ledges are still slanted to give characters like bowser and Donkey Kong options involving Up-B and to prevent battlefield style ledgemisses.

Platforms overlapping the ledge slightly give characters like zelda, shiek, mewtwo, and luigi an additional recovery point with their sometimes very vertical jump.

The stage is relatively small to even out tier related differences in character speed, and the middle platform allows every character to escape laser camping and other projectile issues. Wavelanding on platforms can substantially increase slower character speed and opens up aerial options from dropoffs and shielddrops.

Also, there are no tourney legal stages with low-middle platforms in melee, and I think they're cool.

TheCrimsonBlur · Oct 5, 2012

Massive said:
Another generic/neutral stage that is not available in melee.

[COLLAPSE="Image"]

[/COLLAPSE]

This stage is a lot shallower and does not disrupt horizontal attacks.

Like Yoshi's story, the ledges are still slanted to give characters like bowser and Donkey Kong options involving Up-B and to prevent battlefield style ledgemisses.

Platforms overlapping the ledge slightly give characters like zelda, shiek, mewtwo, and luigi an additional recovery point with their sometimes very vertical jump.

The stage is relatively small to even out tier related differences in character speed, and the middle platform allows every character to escape laser camping and other projectile issues. Wavelanding on platforms can substantially increase slower character speed and opens up aerial options from dropoffs and shielddrops.

Also, there are no tourney legal stages with middle platforms in melee, and I think they're cool.

Oh man Marth would be a god there.

Dooo itttt

Achilles1515 · Oct 5, 2012

Cool idea. Im excited that you are getting into stage hacking. what about...

Certainly some interesting new edgeguards available

Massive · Oct 5, 2012

TheCrimsonBlur said:
Oh man Marth would be a god there.

Dooo itttt

This is actually one of my considerations, I was thinking about making the platforms high enough that you could utilt but not fsmash through them (like dreamland 64) to prevent extreme marth-centric gameplay.

Soloist · Oct 5, 2012

I created this two years ago in SketchUp when I was really into map/game design. My goal was to combine the aesthetics of FD and BF.

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Long story short, I would love to see Battlefield without the top platform. Honestly, every time I play on Pokemon Stadium I think of how well the neutral non-transformed stage plays (and wish that it would never transform!).

Also, this thread should be moved to Melee Workshop.

Massive · Oct 5, 2012

I like that idea, Soloist. I like it a lot.

It reminds me of another one I thought up a while ago.
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Pretty straightforward here.

Basically Pokemon Stadium without the transformations - but at the bottom, there's some lovely, stationary lava.

What happens with this? You can't kill down, not effectively anyway.

New cool options only seen before on brinstar and mute city present themselves because now you can combo dudes off the bottom who would've died.

Characters with lackluster recoveries would rejoice, because they could now have less predictable reentry angles.

Even dudes who have trouble chasing people off the side can now do so with almost wreckless abandon (I'm looking at you bowser).

Dan Salvato · Oct 5, 2012

Soloist said:
Also, this thread should be moved to Melee Workshop.

We're speculating the impact of different stages on competitive gameplay, not creating the stages, so I figured it belonged here.

DerfMidWest · Oct 5, 2012

couldn't you use the lava to stall under the stage?
and don't spikes send through lava?

fatman667 · Oct 5, 2012

Soloist said:
I created this two years ago in SketchUp when I was really into map/game design. My goal was to combine the aesthetics of FD and BF.

[collapse=(Click to zoom)]

[/collapse]

Long story short, I would love to see Battlefield without the top platform. Honestly, every time I play on Pokemon Stadium I think of how well the neutral non-transformed stage plays (and wish that it would never transform!).

Also, this thread should be moved to Melee Workshop.

Ya this looks amazing

felipe_9595 · Oct 6, 2012

Soloist said:
I created this two years ago in SketchUp when I was really into map/game design. My goal was to combine the aesthetics of FD and BF.

[collapse=(Click to zoom)]

[/collapse]

Long story short, I would love to see Battlefield without the top platform. Honestly, every time I play on Pokemon Stadium I think of how well the neutral non-transformed stage plays (and wish that it would never transform!).

Also, this thread should be moved to Melee Workshop.

Do you still have the .skp for that??? I would really love to use that for something.

Scidadle · Oct 6, 2012

I hope the MBR considers some of these options.

They probably wont though considering not everyone will have access to hacked melee.

Some good stage ideas tho.

It's me Q · Oct 6, 2012

Soloist said:
I created this two years ago in SketchUp when I was really into map/game design. My goal was to combine the aesthetics of FD and BF.

[collapse=(Click to zoom)]

[/collapse]

Long story short, I would love to see Battlefield without the top platform. Honestly, every time I play on Pokemon Stadium I think of how well the neutral non-transformed stage plays (and wish that it would never transform!).

Also, this thread should be moved to Melee Workshop.

Have fantasized about this

RFrizzle · Oct 6, 2012

Once melee online is finished, a new golden age of swagged out stage variety will be upon us.

Mahone · Oct 6, 2012

I think this map would be cool for puff dittos

where u just have some really really small platforms that are just good for refreshing jumps, but the top and bottom ones have the risk of being so close to blastzones, so you'll probably be fighting over the middle one

im not really sure how many platforms there should be... would probably take some experimenting

also no one probably cares cuz this is only really useful for puff dittos, but i think itd be HYPE

Rikana · Oct 6, 2012

^

Best. Post. EVER.

Dan Salvato · Oct 7, 2012

On this topic, what do you think about Fountain of Dreams for use in doubles? I'm going to modify the stage to eliminate lagging, so this becomes a possibility.

DerfMidWest · Oct 7, 2012

Its lame in pm. Small, but not cool like yoshis.

Bones0 · Oct 8, 2012

InternetExplorer said:
On this topic, what do you think about Fountain of Dreams for use in doubles? I'm going to modify the stage to eliminate lagging, so this becomes a possibility.

Yesssssssssss.

odinNJ · Oct 8, 2012

fountain of dreams is an awful stage, awful, its horrible, no one likes it, why does it exist.

also.

slanted ground = top tier idea. pls do, i have hacked melee so i would be down for testing.

Mahie · Oct 8, 2012

The issue with slanted platforms/stages is that while wavedashing while "climbing" is easy, the other way around is quite hard and that makes options like WDoos really hard to use, which as always, is a plus for spacies more so than the others.

Doser · Oct 8, 2012

I know some of these have been mentioned before, but I'm just going to list my ideas on what we could do with the current stages.

Yoshi's Story with no Shyguys and either no Randall, fixed Randal, two Randalls, or two fixed Randalls. Where the case with two randalls would have one going clockwise and the other counterclockwise.

Battlefield with normal edges.

Pokemonstadium with no transformations.

Battlefield with no top platform.

Dreamland with no wind.

Fountain of Dreams with no reflections (or whatever it is that causes performance issues).

Fountain of Dreams with a fixed pattern of platform movement or no platform movement.

Kongo Jungle with a fixed pattern of the barrel or no barrel.

Kongo Jungle scaled down a bit so it fits better with melee.

I've also wondered what it would be like if we changed the blast zones on some stages.

onionchowder · Oct 8, 2012

I was thinking about a generic neutral-y stage with a thin vertical pit in the middle (think Saffron City/Fourside/Yoshi's Island). Not sure if there should be ledges to grab (stalling issues?). I don't think it would disrupt most play too much, but it would be an interesting stage obstacle to play around. Maybe put lava at the bottom of the pit or something.

KirbyKaze · Oct 8, 2012

Smashville.

Mahie · Oct 8, 2012

Doser said:
I know some of these have been mentioned before, but I'm just going to list my ideas on what we could do with the current stages.

Yoshi's Story with no Shyguys and either no Randall, fixed Randal, two Randalls, or two fixed Randalls. Where the case with two randalls would have one going clockwise and the other counterclockwise.

Battlefield with normal edges.

Pokemonstadium with no transformations.

Battlefield with no top platform.

Dreamland with no wind.

Fountain of Dreams with no reflections (or whatever it is that causes performance issues).

Fountain of Dreams with a fixed pattern of platform movement or no platform movement.

Kongo Jungle with a fixed pattern of the barrel or no barrel.

Kongo Jungle scaled down a bit so it fits better with melee.

I've also wondered what it would be like if we changed the blast zones on some stages.

I agree with most changes, but you want fixed patterns for FoD/Kongo Jungle's barrel and yet you are not content with the current state of Randall. What is the issue with it?

Doser · Oct 8, 2012

It's not that I'm bothered by it too much, but I was toying with the idea of changing it. It may be cool to have a fixed mini platform on each side of yoshi's story, or to at least know that on each side of the stage there will always be a cloud at some position.

Mahie · Oct 8, 2012

I guess having two clouds set on mirror patterns would be interesting, yeah. You wouldn't have to worry about being on the cloudless side anymore either.

Doser · Oct 8, 2012

I have some ideas for what would be a good falco ditto stage, but since I'm **** at this game does anyone have some thoughts on this?

I was imagining something like Final Destination, but with 3+ layers of platforms (that are the about the same length of the stage itself) above it.

Also, we could have gaps in the platforms so they can do edge cancel nonsense.

KirbyKaze · Oct 8, 2012

Everyone complains about the cloud so now to balance it we're going to add another cloud?

What the hell.

Mahie · Oct 8, 2012

The only major issue with Randall is that it could or could not be on your side, but knowing where it is should not be a problem.
If you have 4 Randalls cycling so that there is at least one out on each side all the time, it becomes a matter of only knowing where it is, as opposed to hoping you're on the correct side (or playing only on the correct side) + knowing where it is.

rjgbadger · Oct 8, 2012

the only issue with randall is that people think they should be able to rely on him because he occasionally saves you. there's is nothing wrong with him. he has a set schedule, and you can edgeguard randall recoveries, no much more difficult than normal edgeguarding

Doser · Oct 8, 2012

This isn't an argument about whether the tournament standard for yoshi's should be changed. We are talking about changes we could make that may or may not turn out to be cool.

DerfMidWest · Oct 8, 2012

How about if we replace randal with the claptrap >:3

Dan Salvato · Oct 8, 2012

How about a Pokemon Stadium with non-crappy stage transformations? The four transformations can have different tournament-style platform layouts. This means character advantage would likely change throughout the match, an interesting concept. One transformation could be akin to Battlefield, another could have one very long platform, a third could have moving platforms, and the fourth I guess could be completely flat.

rjgbadger · Oct 8, 2012

Doser said:
This isn't an argument about whether the tournament standard for yoshi's should be changed. We are talking about changes we could make that may or may not turn out to be cool.

you're right it isn't; however, I am arguing that yoshi's does not deserve more clouds

Bones0 · Oct 8, 2012

Make it so you can see under PS's ledges.

Doser · Oct 8, 2012

rjgbadger said:
you're right it isn't; however, I am arguing that yoshi's does not deserve more clouds

What does that even mean? Are you actually saying people shouldn't ever try to modify randall because you'll get upset? Why is it inherently bad to make a new stage that is like yoshi's but with two clouds or no clouds? What's the harm in adding content to the game?

You didn't even make an argument towards saying yoshi's doesn't deserve more clouds, you just said that it's fine without any modificationss. But like I said earlier this isn't about replacing it, this is about trying out ideas.

Making a modification of Yoshi's isn't going to delete the original off the face of the earth.

KirbyKaze · Oct 8, 2012

.vanir said:
How about if we replace randal with the claptrap >:3

I'm strangely intrigued by this.

GhllieShdeKnife · Oct 8, 2012

me too, you could be spiked down into claptrap. this would be much better at saving people than randall

Warhawk · Oct 8, 2012

This thread gives me stage envy

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