The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

Remzi · Oct 10, 2008

Good point kizzu, this is a critique thread. But you are bragging >_>

Lets just end this here. We can play this weekend, maybe even tomorrow from 3PM to 6PM est.

Continue posting your videos gentlemen ^_^

Remzi · Oct 10, 2008

illinialex24 said:
I know, he uses Olimar. And Cody's better than him from my experience. And thats using Jigglypuff and seeing who I do better against.

You cannot base someones skill off of that. Also, do you not take matchups into consideration at all...?

magikguy · Oct 10, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIe4OLp_0ag

general overview i guess .

illinialex24 · Oct 10, 2008

BengalsRZ said:
You cannot base someones skill off of that. Also, do you not take matchups into consideration at all...?

Exactly. I should have done around 5 times worse against the Olimar than the Marth because the Jiggs-Marth matchup is fairly even while the Olimar-Marth matchup is impossible.

grandmaster192 · Oct 10, 2008

illinialex24 said:
Exactly. I should have done around 5 times worse against the Olimar than the Marth because the Jiggs-Marth matchup is fairly even while the Olimar-Marth matchup is impossible.

what the f*ck? Marth vs Jiggs isn't even. I'm probably just not reading your post right.

Remzi · Oct 10, 2008

illinialex24 said:
Exactly. I should have done around 5 times worse against the Olimar than the Marth because the Jiggs-Marth matchup is fairly even while the Olimar-Marth matchup is impossible.

Emblem Lord · Oct 10, 2008

The idiots need to cut the ****.

Marth boards is elitist as ****.

Yeah, it's true.

What about it?

Marth boards is too f*ckin sexy and we are the best motherf*ckin character board and we know it.

So everyone just put nintendoboy and illinialex24 on your ignore lists so we can be on our way and continue with the thread.

nintendoboyyy22 · Oct 10, 2008

BengalsRZ said:
Good point kizzu, this is a critique thread. But you are bragging >_>

Lets just end this here. We can play this weekend, maybe even tomorrow from 3PM to 6PM est.

Continue posting your videos gentlemen ^_^

Whatever.

And whoever does best, no johning.

feardragon64 · Oct 10, 2008

magikguy said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIe4OLp_0ag

general overview i guess .

You have the basics down for sure. I actually liked your Marth a lot. My biggest suggestions are to use dancing blade a bit more. You really favored aerial approaches, but it's fine because it worked. Just make sure not to get too predictable with your approach patterns. Other than that, careful of making careless mistakes(first death dropping down into charging smash attack and almost dying because you dropped too low to go for a gimp(luckily you got hit after your dolphin slash didn't quite reach the edge). But good Marth.

And I thought it was pretty much well known throughout the boards that Marth boards are elitist. If it's not then we're not speaking outside of these boards enough.

illinialex24 · Oct 10, 2008

grandmaster192 said:
what the f*ck? Marth vs Jiggs isn't even. I'm probably just not reading your post right.

Lol, its a small to slight advantage between Jiggs and Marth. Because Jigglypuff can approach Marth, can get inside of him in the air and can kill him.

Olimar, on the other hand, can stop all of Jigglypuff's approaches essentially, for Jigglypuff to approach, and then kill Jigglypuff. So considering I did better on Hydra's Olimar than Cody's Marth, and I played a fair number of games on both, I think Cody is better than Hydra, but not by much. And any Jigglypuff will tell you the Jiggs Olimar matchup is harder than the Jiggs Marth one, maybe because the Jiggs Marth one isn't very hard and the Jiggs Olimar one is impossible.

BengalsRZ said:

Are you serious?

Steel · Oct 10, 2008

Illinialex, seriously now

Do you have any real offline tourney experience to base this information on how "jiggs can get inside marth then kill him"? I think your standard of a good player isn't that high because you haven't seen many, just my observations since you think nintendo's Marth is so amazing.

Jiggs isn't good, Marth destroys her.

illinialex24 · Oct 10, 2008

Steel2nd said:
Illinialex, seriously now

Do you have any real offline tourney experience to base this information on how "jiggs can get inside marth then kill him"? I think your standard of a good player isn't that high because you haven't seen many, just my observations since you think nintendo's Marth is so amazing.

Jiggs isn't good, Marth destroys her.

LMAO, have you even played a good Jigglypuff? And my main point was comparison, Marth does beat Jiggs but he does not destroy her. Compared to the matchup with Olimar though, however, Marth is easy to beat. And I don't have any Brawl tourney experience yet, mainly because my parents are crazy. But I am gonna try to join some offline ones soon, and I have been playing people who have done decently in tournaments online and offline.

Oh yeah I forgot to add this but I've also seen some good Jigglypuff's facing good Marth's (i.e. Junk vs. __G__) and its not that lopsided. Ironically, I saw that match on your own channel...

Steel · Oct 10, 2008

That's the thing, the game is completely different online. You can rely on tactics and exploit the fact if you have a lack of spacing and still do well.

I've a good Jiggs myself, I know what she can and can't do. One thing she can't do, is get inside Marth's sword reliably. She has pound, that's one move and won't be spammed or else you will get punished every time.

But either way, what does it matter if I have played good ones or haven't? Discussing match ups is all about looking at each characters tools and how they can apply them to the match up. Marth wins by a long shot here.

illinialex24 · Oct 10, 2008

Steel2nd said:
That's the thing, the game is completely different online. You can rely on tactics and exploit the fact if you have a lack of spacing and still do well.

I've a good Jiggs myself, I know what she can and can't do. One thing she can't do, is get inside Marth's sword reliably. She has pound, that's one move and won't be spammed or else you will get punished every time.

But either way, what does it matter if I have played good ones or haven't? Discussing match ups is all about looking at each characters tools and how they can apply them to the match up. Marth wins by a long shot here.

I did say the word offline... And why I second Marth is because he goes with my style and because he has strengths on a lot of Jigg's weaknesses. I know ur a better player than me but to think that a Jigglypuff can't get inside a Marth when she has such amazing aerial control. I know its Marth advantage but its not a longshot. I'm kinda sucking right now but why don't we play? Marth dittos at first so I can learn my Marth better and then Jiggs vs. Marth.

And btw, I do have a good connection so although it won't be great, we should get like a green or even a blue if you are in the Illinois area.

Steel · Oct 10, 2008

The fact that she has such aerial mobility is why it isn't 80:20 or worse. It's 70:30, maybe 65:35.

And I'm trying to stay away from wifi now, messes me up too much when I play offline. Wifi is great for match up experience, but not much more than that.

illinialex24 · Oct 10, 2008

Steel2nd said:
The fact that she has such aerial mobility is why it isn't 80:20 or worse. It's 70:30, maybe 65:35.

And I'm trying to stay away from wifi now, messes me up too much. Wifi is great for match up experience, but not much more than that.

yeah, but the Marth I used to play with other than Cody is the biggest ******* in the world now, so I kinda wanna play even if it does suck...

Zankoku · Oct 10, 2008

vs Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IijoHYyMv60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiz8UngJun4

vs Meta Knight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPUKadZOHu0

Critique any or all of the vids as completely as you see fit to.

Shaya · Oct 10, 2008

Agaisnt Meta:
Bad:
Downwards Dancing Blade? EH?
I don't know why you rush straight in with nair though. It's quite dangerous considering how much better Meta's nair is. And of course it seems bad-ish spacing.
Camping the ledge with nair is silly. The Meta could have counter-camped near the edge charging an fsmash or spamming dtilt for an easy ******.

Good:
Using upwards killers = <3
Most of your spacing was nice, especially as you either killed every time you used fsmash or it was tipper (except at the start, but it was only for a little damage racking).

The MK has a lot of holes though.

Against Falco:
Bad:
Very inadequate spacing, making yourself very unsafe.
Your approaching was sillyish, you didn't even dodge past lasers...
You fell for Falco's side b often; if you're on the same horizontal level as a Falco at a distance you can't hit them, why let them hit you with it? Shield or out smart them with a well timed fair/ftilt/etc.
Try not using Rolling as an approach so much.
Again, downwards Dancing Blade ?
Forward Smashing into shields, or when the opponent is no where near you? They're many safer moves.

Good:
Your luck?

Nibbity · Oct 10, 2008

I really wanna put some vids up here. What do you recommend for equipment to use?

BacklashMarth · Oct 10, 2008

That MK seemed be be of a lower skill than you, but i could be mistaken. The only thing i remember seeing that was risky was the good ole fair -> f-smash (but you hit with it every time so i cant complain).

Megavitamins · Oct 10, 2008

Hmm, I have a bunch of replays on my Wii, if anybody would be kind enough to upload them onto youtube for me give me a pm or post here. ^^.

Steel · Oct 11, 2008

magikguy said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIe4OLp_0ag

general overview i guess .

I will get to you later today.. and Ankoku's if he needs more critiquez

Steel · Oct 11, 2008

magikguy said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIe4OLp_0ag

general overview i guess .

K, so compared to you your opponent was awful. It's hard to critique much when you just obliterate him.

Anyway a few things I noticed..

Don't think I saw too much dancing blade, and when you did sometimes you would just attack his shield when a grab would have been a much better option.

No up-b out of shield.

Use of tilts, which is good. Spacing for the most part was ok, sometimes you would go with the double fair approach which will never work against a good opponent, you'll be punished every time.

Poor decisions when you were on the platform. NEVER roll on a platform and NEVER use a dair on stage.

Marth was ok, but you would have a more accurate critique with a better opponent... and 3 stock next time please, anything above that I fall asleep.

Other than that Ill just copy paste fear dragons even though he said basically the same stuff..

You have the basics down for sure. I actually liked your Marth a lot. My biggest suggestions are to use dancing blade a bit more. You really favored aerial approaches, but it's fine because it worked. Just make sure not to get too predictable with your approach patterns. Other than that, careful of making careless mistakes(first death dropping down into charging smash attack and almost dying because you dropped too low to go for a gimp(luckily you got hit after your dolphin slash didn't quite reach the edge). But good Marth.

Steel · Oct 11, 2008

Ankoku:

You played well vs the meta ghey, but you were much better anyway. You know the match up well.

Anyway, ill critique 2nd match falco.

:08, yoshi's island is lame so I can understand not going for the death combo, but no fthrow > fsmash?

:14, bleeding eyes.

:20, wt f son, ledge trap instead of jumping at him while hanging on the ledge plz

:30, finish the dancing blade, go for the guaranteed ****

:36, don't use the dancing blade down, besides the fact that the third hit will completely f everything up, the multi hit attack is DI'able. just go for the standard, most reliable

:39, what are you doing sir, stay on the stage. doing this you let your opponent back up too easily. Doing this is a good mix up, but much more risky and obviously not as reliable.

1:09, you rolled back to get out of range of his get up attack, ok fine. but then you did a worthless SH retreating nair which let him back up without retaliation

1:12, more nairs, you are doing rising nairs and for falco to get hit with them he'd have to go for a short hop approach which he shouldn't do in that situation.. and he didn't. FF nairs are better for what you are trying to do, though I just didn't like doing a nair in that situation period. He rolled backwards, you should have stayed grounded and either dash > shield or walk to dtilt.. or just shield the dash attack.

1:20, k you did a falling nair here.. good, but you didn't follow it up with a dtilt which would have killed his roll. Falco falls prey to our ground game and general zoning, i just don't feel a SH fair was the best option, and once you did your fair you should have noticed he was behind you.. you didn't DI forwards.

1:26, get worse at this game please.

1:54, jab his forward b's if you can, you let this one go completely unpunished by rolling.

1:57, K, so look what happens here, you nair. He dashes towards you and you jump backwards and FF fair, you didn't even hit him or his shield with the tip or anything. You are letting falco **** you because you keep retreating your attacks.. you aren't really hitting him.. just throwing your sword out there and hoping he runs into it. Limit his options with your sword, if you stay back too much you are basically letting him know, "oh hey, if marth is letting me run free then i will do so." Falco can't do anything when you are zoning him, but he is seeing you retreat your attacks then punishes.

Know that when I say retreat, i don't mean don't DI backwards after you fair. That's generally what you are supposed to do. But don't progress backwards and let Falco push you to the edge, do the opposite to him. I noticed it several times this match so I thought i'd point that out.

Look at when you **** him across the stage at 2:58 to 3:03, that's what I mean. You did better the second half of the match, you still lost though lolz.

Anything else? Think I don't know what I'm talking about and I should GTFO? Please let me know ^_^

Shaya · Oct 11, 2008

I guess it's time to face the music.
I failed hard against vsing the ICs. Among the fact that they had port 2 (ugh) and what felt like my controller dying half the time, but eh, anything I'm not seeing that's an easy way out can only do me good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2UhBpy992o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVMG6T-mzzM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onENCe5kglg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YedmJzBDlpA (yay, I won this one)

Zankoku · Oct 11, 2008

First video, 0:56 - 1:01 - FAILURE

lol

chaos_ · Oct 11, 2008

lol nice captin falcon

Shaya · Oct 11, 2008

Ankoku said:
First video, 0:56 - 1:01 - FAILURE

lol

You can't imagine how aggrivated I was during that ;_;

takeurlife2 · Oct 14, 2008

retreating fair to dtilt wrecks climbers, use it wisely.

the matchup is allot like it was in melee, despite how it may seem. Seperate them and proceed to wreck shop on nana while watching for popo

feardragon64 · Oct 14, 2008

lol shaya, I also noticed you could have gotten your kills earlier when there was only one IC left by tipper bair'ing during the side+b instead of fair'ing. You wore down your fair earlier so your bair was basically fresh and it has an even longer range so it shouldn't be hard to hit with. Plus, if IC was recovering with side+b, they can't air dodge so it's practically guaranteed. =]

And it's ok man. It happens to the best of us.

Zankoku · Oct 14, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki83_KekIzM

vs a better Meta Knight this time, you know what you're doing.

Steel · Oct 14, 2008

sure.. ill look at it later this afternoon

Shaya · Oct 14, 2008

A better Meta Knight sure.

But I lul'd that he'd just "take" you camping an edge without dtilting you to oblivion, or you actually going out of your way to dair/bair him when he could just up b and own you ;\

Pretty good spacing, as usual (against Metas), I did like how well you were doing with edgeguarding, but I'm sure it's not safe enough to do that...

You take a lot of risks, risking playing may work in your favour I suppose, but I definitely felt the MK could have punished your risk taking a lot more. Towards the last stock you were pushing out a lot of whiffed fsmashes...

Definitely need more up b out of shield. I presume you're having issues with the control stick not being in neutral before doing 'up b', happens to me. If not, well, more up b out of shield or work on letting the control stick move back to neutral.

Awesome dair spike at the beginning though.

Zankoku · Oct 14, 2008

Friendlies are friendlies, I admit that I play exceedingly carelessly when there's nothing on the line, lol.

BacklashMarth · Oct 14, 2008

Lol. I bet that dumb a** wont play around on the ledge anymore. :laugh:

Oh and btw, good job spacing your taunt correctly but i think a tipper down taunt would have been more appropriate.

feardragon64 · Oct 14, 2008

lol still nice marth anko. Largest concerns were trying to gimp mk(it did backfire =[ ), occassional dairs on stage, and ending dancing blade with down way too much, and as you already said you were a bit careless. But it's friendlies so you can't be blamed too much for the first and last ones.

_Kadaj_ · Oct 14, 2008

i need to put vids up so that i can get an analysis and an overall look

Remzi · Oct 14, 2008

me too, anyone here able to upload videos?

Zankoku · Oct 14, 2008

I can record and upload videos, but replays tend to mean matches that weren't really great to begin with.

Remzi · Oct 14, 2008

Ankoku said:
I can record and upload videos, but replays tend to mean matches that weren't really great to begin with.

Not when you have hacks to record matches of any length

haha, thanks. so should I PM you my wii+ Brawl FCs?

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