Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

P.C. Jona · May 5, 2009

Scar said:
DrewB008 please return to normal Captain Falcon discussion, this is your second warning. Regulation of SWF is enforced by handing out infractions, which can potentially lead to a forum ban.

We value your membership.

lmao

scar when will you be around with wes again so we can play?
i remember i didnt wanna go falco on you because i always wanted to falcon ditto you

related

gentleman> dash is pretty hard

i think you should never just do a single jab, or double always gentleman>dash

like ss :]

lol but seriously gentleman to dash is like waveshining with falcon

alcoady · May 5, 2009

Who would win?

C. Falcon w/ one leg and a paper cup,
or 10 T-Rex's, 3 of which have larger than life shotguns

KAOSTAR · May 5, 2009

I find light shielding a better option on platforms simply because good foxes assume that good players angle their shields down while an attack comes from below.

But then a good fox simply jumps from below and nairs your head.

****!!!

Lightshield on platforms and be prepared to DI, tech, and act as you land. you may tumble and hit the ground. I hate getting Uaired from standing on a platform.

Mokumo · May 5, 2009

alcoady said:
Who would win?

C. Falcon w/ one leg and a paper cup,
or 10 T-Rex's, 3 of which have larger than life shotguns

definately falcon because a T-Rex's arms are small and unable to use a shotgun anyway. and if falcon still has one leg he can still knee people but i dnt what what he can do with a paper cup :laugh:

P.C. Jona · May 5, 2009

he can pee in the cup and call it
POWERTHIRST

KAOSTAR · May 5, 2009

Jonas 160th post lol congratulations

P.C. Jona · May 5, 2009

KAOSTAR said:
Jonas 160th post lol congratulations

i actually have around close to 2grand i think

im not a noob son, you must not know who i are

unless your jk'ing

in which case i say

LOL! good 1!

so anyways,

when i down throw i knee where they would have to tech in place and then f tilt in case they tech away from me and run towards me, its good vs fox

i only do this cuz im not quick like ss

he could knee in place then get a grab for the tech away... so good

KAOSTAR · May 5, 2009

Why do ppl keep thinking that post count determines your echelon on smash boards lol. Its just a number.

Thats that youtube ****. Youtube doesnt tell skill

metashinryu · May 5, 2009

KAOSTAR said:
Why do ppl keep thinking that post count determines your echelon on smash boards lol. Its just a number.

Thats that youtube ****. Youtube doesnt tell skill

what is echelon?

Faithkeeper · May 5, 2009

metashinryu said:
what is echelon?

ech⋅e⋅lon
–noun
1. a level of command, authority, or rank: the top echelon of city officials.

Basically your "status".

Tomacawk · May 5, 2009

very recently changed my main to falcon after maining fox for so long. I will have videos up soon. Critique will be extremely appreciated. In the meantime, can I get some general, upper level tips for vs sheik? How can falcon get through the stupid priority of her tilts? what are effective ways to recover (oxy moron with falcon?) through her bull**** fairs? I can tech the dsmash pretty regurally, it's the other **** that gets me. I already know and do DI the tilts away from sheik, but it's still a really, really difficult matchup. Should I just go fox for it?

also, I don't really know the vs ganon matchup, at all. I've always lost to ganons in tourny play with fox; what is the general approach for falcon in this matchup? what percents do I uthrow or dthrow? what gets through his fair->jab spacing? I know uair juggled heavies really really well already. And what is the best way to edge guard him? ledge hop bair? utilt? knee through his up b?uair? thanks.

EDIT----also, how do I deal with fox shield pressure? I've actually managed to get really good at the falcon v falco matchup--it's really irritating, but patience pays off--when I get the first hit I really drag out the combo, but with fox, it seems more difficult than falco's lasers just because his nair will always beat falcons anything and he can just blindly rush your shield and as long as he l cancels he won't get grabbed.

DrewB008 · May 5, 2009

dont go through sheiks tilts, it doesnt work. you need to force sheik to use something else to hit you, like an aerial or a dash attack, then punish that with a grab or you can stomp over the dash attack. the matchup is super hard, i usually dont go falcon against sheik anymore.

ganon is weird, sometimes nair is amazing and other times not so much. uthrow uair is pretty good at almost any %, then at higher % you can uthrow knee. edgeguarding is going to depend on where he is recovering, if hes going high its a very different strategy than if hes going low, you basically just have to read what hes doing and shut that down. grabbing the edge is really good, as is going out and hitting him after he down b's to get his jump back.

Tomacawk · May 5, 2009

this is going to sound newb but i have a friend who plays sheik and at times he just walks towards me and spams ftilt, and i literally have to roll or double jump over him-> bair to get through it and it's not a good situation ever to be using double jumps or rolling. what other options do i have? running shield/power shield->grab?
and what about fox?
is there any % where I should be dthrowing rather than uthrowing a ganon? and also, IC's are a huge trouble for my falcon.
thanks again. and I'm pretty sure we've played in tourny before, bigD. I actually think you've been in my doubles pools twice

skyheart · May 5, 2009

that's easy to punish if your friend just walks and tries to tilt, before he's about to do that, just dj and stomp him

Tomacawk · May 5, 2009

skyheart said:
that's easy to punish if your friend just walks and tries to tilt, before he's about to do that, just dj and stomp him

he isn't bad, though. If I try that he just uairs/nairs. dj->stomp gives him too much time to react. that's why I'll just dj ->fastfall -> bair behind him and space it as far as possible away.

DrewB008 · May 5, 2009

i know ive been in your doubles pool at least once, at the last smym, when was the other time?

i dont really count playing somebody in teams as playing them in tourney, you dont get a chance to really get in their head. but maybe im just bad at teams.

anyway, yeah you can just running jump over her, roll, etc. to force your buddy into trying to predict that and doing something punishable. you can grab in between sheiks tilts too, but its super hard. crouch canceling supposedly works ok but ive never gotten the hang of it vs sheik.

vs ganon dthrow at some super low %'s if you want but i almost always uthrow him, even though he can jump out at low % doing an uair will usually steal his jump.

ice climbers you need to forget everything you know about falcon and spam stomps knees and forward b until you kill nana, then you can play falcon normal again with grabs and nairs and uairs and stuff

Scar · May 6, 2009

if you shield DI sheik's ftilt down and in, you can shieldgrab it
also fB will work occasionally if you know sheik is gonna do that, time it right so falcon evades the tilt then fire uppercut

the way to beat sheik is to be good with captain falcon, whether you play mindgames or you like to combo you need to make sure you DESTROY her from all of your grabs/hits. if you can fB > death combo sheik, they will play scared, which is when you can really take control of the match. watch vids of others and yourself and figure out how you like to play and what you can do to stretch your momentum from hits.

but make no mistake, vs sheik is really hard. so is vs falco, i'd recommend staying fox for these matchups.

jona gentleman>dash is easy
A fully release A fully release A (hold) as fast as you can, then dash before letting go of A, and you have to hit with the first jab or it doesn't work

Tomacawk · May 6, 2009

DrewB008 said:
i know ive been in your doubles pool at least once, at the last smym, when was the other time?

i dont really count playing somebody in teams as playing them in tourney, you dont get a chance to really get in their head. but maybe im just bad at teams.

anyway, yeah you can just running jump over her, roll, etc. to force your buddy into trying to predict that and doing something punishable. you can grab in between sheiks tilts too, but its super hard. crouch canceling supposedly works ok but ive never gotten the hang of it vs sheik.

vs ganon dthrow at some super low %'s if you want but i almost always uthrow him, even though he can jump out at low % doing an uair will usually steal his jump.

ice climbers you need to forget everything you know about falcon and spam stomps knees and forward b until you kill nana, then you can play falcon normal again with grabs and nairs and uairs and stuff

yeah we've never played singles. Weren't you in my doubles pools for poe2? And if you go to champaign this weekend we'll play there.
So spam side b, stomps, and knees against ic's? should I land in front or behind their shield? and what do I do after I land, a jab? IIRC the side b pushes off their shields so I stop outside of their grab range, right?
and vs ganon if I dthrow at low percents, he lands while in stun, right? when should I go into a tech chase dair against ganon (what percent?) and at higher percents is dthrow->knee going to combo? and ganon is like marth, where if you uthrow <30% he can DJ out of it? do you know the %'s on this?
sorry for all the questions. I have a solid falcon (IMO) but I don't have a lot of the fine tuned, falcon main knowledge, and I don't know some of the matchups, so I'm trying to get all the knowledge I can before I "officially" main him. thanks again.
EDITING FROM SCARS POST.

Scar said:
if you shield DI sheik's ftilt down and in, you can shieldgrab it
also fB will work occasionally if you know sheik is gonna do that, time it right so falcon evades the tilt then fire uppercut

the way to beat sheik is to be good with captain falcon, whether you play mindgames or you like to combo you need to make sure you DESTROY her from all of your grabs/hits. if you can fB > death combo sheik, they will play scared, which is when you can really take control of the match. watch vids of others and yourself and figure out how you like to play and what you can do to stretch your momentum from hits.

but make no mistake, vs sheik is really hard. so is vs falco, i'd recommend staying fox for these matchups.

I actually do FAR better with falcon than fox vs falco just because once I get the falco "scared" i can really read their techs (often towards me, towards the ledge, etc. you're a falcon main, you know what I mean). Do sheiks tend to have the same teching pattern? I very well may stay fox for vs sheik but I've always struggled on THAT one, too. regardless of character (besides sheik dittos and marf) I really struggle with approaching sheik, it's just a weakness in my personal game.
thanks for all the advice, both of you.

Scar · May 6, 2009

yeah well she rarely has to tech, but at 0% you have to tech chase on dthrow so that's one opportunity (I find that many sheiks just tech in place so I just go for that)

i mean you can put the pressure on her shield pretty well and force her to dodge or roll, and if you're good at reading things you can really punish her hard for those things, but you won't be reading/predicting anywhere near as often as you are vs fastfallers.

never approach sheik. stay on the ground or on platforms, run away, if she jumps EVER then it's your chance to strike by either getting behind her or just running up with a uair or planting a grab/fB where she lands. if she never jumps you can try weak knee approach, also running in and shielding ftilts is a good strat unless they adapt and start grabbing, in which case you mix up and run in and sheild>knee OOS, something like that

it's a tough match, but if you're going to get good at falcon v marth then you'll get good vs sheik too.

P.C. Jona · May 6, 2009

Scar said:
[something about sheild di]

jona gentleman>dash is easy
A fully release A fully release A (hold) as fast as you can, then dash before letting go of A, and you have to hit with the first jab or it doesn't work

whats sheild di?

lol thats new to me, is it just when you move your sheild like around? i only do that when it gets a little low..

and i didnt know you had to dash before you let go of a lol, i thought it was after you let go...thats probly why it was so hard lol

Tomacawk · May 6, 2009

falcon vs marf is one of my best matchups >.> idk I just "get it", ie how to dashdance around his fairs and dtilts and what not. but yeah my vs sheik def. needs work, I'll try weak knees->grab. so if I'm playing really defensively and the sheik realizes I punish her approaches, and she begins to just charge needles, how should approach that situation? shffl nair outside grab range? shield approach?
thanks, seriously. I know all the questions are probably annoying, but I'm hoping they haven't already been covered in this thread because I've never read through it at all and I know I'm a ****** for not searching before I ask.

Binx · May 6, 2009

Cross up her shield, and don't get grabbed, if you go off the edge pray, also throw in knees at low percents, if they DI away expecting something that will combo you can start some really easy and early edgeguards, edgeguarding is really easy most of the time too, knee grab ledge knee when they land on the stage lol.

Mix up crossing their shield with different aerials and dash dance grabbing them, its a really tough match up for Falcon, you just really need to take advantage of any hits you manage to land.

DrewB008 · May 6, 2009

dont jab after you hit icies shield, just roll or run away

all that stuff about %'s vs ganon: i dont know them, just uthrow uair the vast majority of the time, sometimes dthrow can trick them if youre near the edge

skyheart · May 6, 2009

Tomacawk said:
he isn't bad, though. If I try that he just uairs/nairs. dj->stomp gives him too much time to react. that's why I'll just dj ->fastfall -> bair behind him and space it as far as possible away.

no that'd be dumb haha, what i meant to say since it might not have been very clear is that when you KNOW he's about to walk up and do something, do your dj and stomp as he's about to do a move to hit you like a tilt, if you do it right, it'll **** your friend, so the next time when he approaches you, if he's not dumb, he'd most likely try to get close then EXPECT you to do it again, so he'll go air, then just punish with sh uair, if he's low at percent, you can go past him with the uair so you'd land behind him and he'll most likely land so just dash away and back and grab, it's ****

Tomacawk · May 6, 2009

skyheart said:
no that'd be dumb haha, what i meant to say since it might not have been very clear is that when you KNOW he's about to walk up and do something, do your dj and stomp as he's about to do a move to hit you like a tilt, if you do it right, it'll **** your friend, so the next time when he approaches you, if he's not dumb, he'd most likely try to get close then EXPECT you to do it again, so he'll go air, then just punish with sh uair, if he's low at percent, you can go past him with the uair so you'd land behind him and he'll most likely land so just dash away and back and grab, it's ****

but he isn't walking up saying "no matter what I'm going to ftilt." It's mindgames. He begins walking. I expect an ftilt. He is probably going to ftilt. If I jump, he'll just jump and nair. I have to actually wait for the ftilt to happen. Sometimes he'll WD back. I think you're assuming he is a bad player, he isn't. It's just mindgames at work, and I really don't know what to do about it, but I guess I'm gunna keep trying to figure out a way. I think running shield->grab is the best choice. I'm not saying you're dumb and your advice is worthless, I'm thinking that you're misunderstanding what I'm talking about. Either way, thanks for the input, I appreciate it. That might conceivably work but I'd have to let him get pretty close to actually bait him into the ftilt, so I'll try it, but IDK, seems pretty risky.

skyheart · May 6, 2009

...then just bait him, don't be stupid and jump into ****, seriously....

DrewB008 · May 6, 2009

skyheart i dont think you understand how cheap sheik vs falcon is

TheManaLord · May 6, 2009

lol sheik i just use stomps to stomps for % then uthrow knee bascially it i hate sheik i just run around and full jump dair and ****

DtJ Jungle · May 6, 2009

Playing a sheik is ********. For almost everyone except fox

P.C. Jona · May 6, 2009

sheik is stupid

you approach get *****

dont approach get needled camped

you should try to get in the lead and then just run away for the rest of the match lol

Mogwai · May 6, 2009

and Flaco, and um.... I unno, it's pretty stupid with everyone else even though some of the others don't have terrible matchups against her, you still have to play really dumb.

DtJ Jungle · May 6, 2009

It's fairly hard to runaway from Sheik. And needle camping is really just theoretical smash. No one really does it because it doesn't really work.

Mogwai · May 6, 2009

it's an important theory though, because it means that the burden of approaching is ultimately on the non-sheik character usually.

skyheart · May 6, 2009

DrewB008 said:
skyheart i dont think you understand how cheap sheik vs falcon is

loool i actually do, i don't think you understand the different levels of sheik vs falcons

P.C. Jona · May 6, 2009

falco vs sheik is pretty tough too..

falco is pretty amazing tho since he can combo everyone

almost like falcon..

falco/n are the best

Ryan-K · May 6, 2009

i do good against falco with cf. i can't fight sheik with anyone though its DUMB. they start doing good then i just KICK THEM ALOT WITH FURRIES

also when i asked m2k how to play falcon "nair into stuff" pretty much. except sometimes step on them or hit them with one of your joints so they cant just sit on their *** and be lazy, unlike captain falcon who is the ultimate manifestation of american work ethic: he moves everywhere REALLY REALLY FAST but then somehow you'll blink and find yourself either ****** someone or found that you're off stage and you're gonna get stabbed in the eye.

P.C. Jona · May 6, 2009

soo what are you talking about son lol

tubes · May 6, 2009

needle camping doesn't sound like it would work to me. Takes to long to use. I mean that'd be like laser camping with falco only no shorthops allowed and the lasers have a limited range. Magus has already explained why Sheik ***** Falcon though.

Ryan-K · May 6, 2009

except needles have very little lag and going across fd with very low visibility isn't that "limited" at all.

DrewB008 · May 6, 2009

needle camping is not the problem in falcon vs sheik

it is for many other characters vs sheik, but for falcon its not that big of a deal, and will probably leave sheik vulnerable as often as it will give her an advantage

Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

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