Kirby Research Thread - OP has new stuff

momochuu · Jul 10, 2009

I didn't ignore it. It's on the first page.

To get a direct post, click the number on the top right of the post. By "reference thread" I meant a thread directly saying that moves do more damage/knockback/whatever in the middle of an opponent's attack. No offense to Veril, of course. I'd just like better proof. :x

CaliburChamp · Jul 10, 2009

KawaiiBunny! said:
I didn't know there was a counter system in this game. >_> Do you have a thread or something for reference? That'd be great.

I tried looking for it, but I forgot the name of the thread. You'll have to believe me on this one, or test it out yourself. The thread was kind of old, so I forgot where it was. It was posted like 5 months ago.

A1lion835 said:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195032&page=127 Go there and ctrl+f for "Kirby's f-smash is insanely good OMG I hate that move." *forgets how to lead into individual posts and the 2 ways he tried didn't work...*

There's a post by Veril saying rest deals more damage if it hits during our fsmash animation, a post by Asdioh saying that he's never heard of it, and I think it dies away after that. (Yea, my memory is THAT good.)

Why did CaliburChamp and Bunny ignore my uair research D:

Thanks for posting the info.

T-nuts · Jul 10, 2009

CaliburChamp said:
I tried looking for it, but I forgot the name of the thread. You'll have to believe me on this one, or test it out yourself. The thread was kind of old, so I forgot where it was. It was posted like 5 months ago.

well i believe you but i might test it myself anyway to see exactly how big the difference in kill power is. thank you for the info though =)

thrillagorilla · Jul 10, 2009

T-nuts said:
well i believe you but i might test it myself anyway to see exactly how big the difference in kill power is. thank you for the info though =)

Well, Kirby's u-smash goes from killing Mario at around 101% to about 75%.

o.O

The mechanic is reliant on the person being hit holding down their charge button though. If they let go during the time they can SDI, the knock-back won't be increased. Info like this might break characters like Fox... I wouldn't doubt some of his KO percentages will drop to about 50% just from a well timed hyphen smash. Still, its opponent reliant and and Kirby doesn't exactly have the mobility to capitalize... I can check it if people want me to, but it would be a pain and it will take much longer to do.

A1lion835 · Jul 10, 2009

I'll be updating the post with all my uair->footstool %'s bunny, so you'll need to keep checking it. Also, while this is off-topic for this thread, I'll be going to Rome and then Israel at the end of a summer which will last 2 weeks. Can you update the matchup thread for me during that time?

*Post 1400!*

thrillagorilla · Jul 10, 2009

I updated the character KO list Bunny. If you want, I can copy/paste the hammer info for you into my post so you don't have to. Also, should I go ahead and calculate in the opponent charging KO percentages?

@SNO: I'd be happy to add the calculations that you mentioned, but I don't understand how multiplying it by anything other than 100%+ is going to account for DI, seeing as it would give a lower percentage number for the KO. If I'm not mistaken, the character weights aren't any different in practice mode, but the moves are set to 100% strength, rather than the usual 100%+ (sorry, I don't remember the exact number) that a fully fresh move will have in Brawl mode. I'm not sure about it, though.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meaning, and I'm sorry if I am.

momochuu · Jul 10, 2009

Actually, go ahead and update your post you made before. I have a better idea for the OP. It'll let you make changes whenever you have to, and I won't have to keep editing the OP over small stuff.

Edit: A'ight. :3 Now your posts are linked to the OP. When you need to make a change/update, just update your post.

GOX · Jul 10, 2009

Let MK eat F-smash at 85.
Gotta remember that one.

Nice research.

*JuriHan* · Jul 10, 2009

thrillagorilla said:
I updated the character KO list Bunny. If you want, I can copy/paste the hammer info for you into my post so you don't have to. Also, should I go ahead and calculate in the opponent charging KO percentages?

@SNO: I'd be happy to add the calculations that you mentioned, but I don't understand how multiplying it by anything other than 100%+ is going to account for DI, seeing as it would give a lower percentage number for the KO. If I'm not mistaken, the character weights aren't any different in practice mode, but the moves are set to 100% strength, rather than the usual 100%+ (sorry, I don't remember the exact number) that a fully fresh move will have in Brawl mode. I'm not sure about it, though.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meaning, and I'm sorry if I am.

you need to use my formula. There is bonus knockback in vs mode compared to training.

sushi-F13ND · Jul 22, 2009

im surprised they hadn't made a thread with this info before..
really helpful though, thanks kawaii

but might i suggest adding a section with kill%'s at the side of the stage?
i hope thats not too much work..i feel bad for asking you to do work in the first place, i would really do it myself but im like n00b and idk if you guys would trust my data >__<

A1lion835 · Jul 28, 2009

Horizontal and Vertical Attack Ranges for All Attacks!

I was bored today and decide to test the horizontal ranges of all of Kirby's attacks, w/o hacks (I haz no sd cardz...).

From highest range to lowest:

S Tier
Final Cutter (Projectile)
Fsmash
Jab - 3rd (infinite) hit
Final Cutter (Blade)

A Tier
Bair
Fair

B Tier
Inhale (grab)
ftilt

C Tier
dtilt
Usmash
dsmash
Jab - 2nd hit
Grounded Hammer
Jab - 1st hit

D Tier
Grab
Utilt (grab and utilt are so close, I'm not sure I did it right) (hit behind Kirby)
Utilt (hit in front of Kirby)
Nair

Tiers are broken up when there is a noticeable gap in the ranges (fair has noticably longer range than inhale, so there's a tier division there...like that).

Inhale has surprisingly long reach (greater than ftilt O_O). I'm not sure about uair's or either stone's ranges, didn't test them. Aerial hammer isn't on the list, as I have no idea how to test the hitbox size of it (you kind of move forward...), but you travel slightly farther forward than the range of Kirby's fsmash. I think I covered all of Kirby's moves (except spitting and swallowing ranges...), let me know if I missed any.

Vertical Range (just 6 moves...):

Final Cutter (Blade, Grounded)
Final Cutter (Blade, Aerial)
Usmash
Upair
Up-angled Fsmash - Yes. Really.
Utilt
Final Cutter (Projectile)

(I made a stage designed to test the height range of these attacks, I'll redo everything later and make sure it's all right. Crossed out things might be wrong.)

Utilt has the 2nd worst vertical and 3rd worst horizontal range of all of kirby's attacks. O_o

Also, there are a lot of strange upsets, like the infinite part of jab being his 3rd longest-ranged attack (behind fsmash and FC projectile).

momochuu · Jul 28, 2009

Nice. I'll add it to the OPsies.

☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆ · Aug 11, 2009

this thread shud show kirbys exact grab box size/shape... throws are pretty important for kirby <.<

Kewkky · Aug 11, 2009

gangstakirby said:
this thread shud show kirbys exact grab box size/shape... throws are pretty important for kirby <.<

The grab range is ********. I don't think anyone has ever seen the actual grab range, but try going into training and grabbing from different distances and you'll see that as soon as you press "grab", the next time Kirby touches your opponent with his extending arm while in the animation, he grabs. If doesn't matter if Kirby touches them with less than a milimeter of his hand, he still grabs the opponent.

Now, dash grabs and pivot grabs are a different story...

A1lion835 · Sep 13, 2009

So, liek. I was messing around in training mode. I randomly did edgegrab->drop down->jump->airdodge->fastfall->regrab. I've been working on it for a bit, and I've managed to perform it so that he has almost no vulnerability time. I find he also regrabs the ledge if you substitute the airdodge with uair or bair. It's a semi-viable planking technique, and you can also use it to stall on the ledge if for some reason you're afraid to intercept a recovery.

You probably already know this, but no one's mentioned it, so can it hurt?

0^2 · Sep 26, 2009

That f-smash is awesome, it's the reason I'm even as good as I am (which really isn't "that" good)

TaterSalad0811 · Feb 27, 2010

Hey guys, sorry to bump, but are there any "researchers" that would mind helping me with a little project? I got the idea since we're doing a Diddy Kong MU.

I'd like somebody to test exactly what moves can combo out of a banana trip, what ones can result from a glide toss, and what moves act as follow-ups (moves that can be avoided, but often hit regardless)

Thought it would be good for the MU.

Kewkky · Feb 27, 2010

TaterSalad0811 said:
Hey guys, sorry to bump, but are there any "researchers" that would mind helping me with a little project? I got the idea since we're doing a Diddy Kong MU.

I'd like somebody to test exactly what moves can combo out of a banana trip, what ones can result from a glide toss, and what moves act as follow-ups (moves that can be avoided, but often hit regardless)

Thought it would be good for the MU.

Your best bet would be to run in and grab after Diddy trips. You COULD run past him if you expect him to roll backwards then fsmash him, or run and bair him... But I assure you, out of everything I've tried, a grab is the best idea.

TaterSalad0811 · Feb 27, 2010

Kewkky said:
Your best bet would be to run in and grab after Diddy trips. You COULD run past him if you expect him to roll backwards then fsmash him, or run and bair him... But I assure you, out of everything I've tried, a grab is the best idea.

Well, the grab was what gave me the idea, but if he trips on a glide toss, doesn't the momentum put us in a perfect place to land other moves?

Also, we may have a new recruit

:kirby:

+1

Kewkky · Feb 27, 2010

Our glidetoss is so bad, we literally look like we're standing still.

And who's this person? I shall ready my ~~rotten eggs~~ welcoming party for the new guy!

TaterSalad0811 · Feb 27, 2010

Kewkky said:
Our glidetoss is so bad, we literally look like we're standing still.

And who's this person? I shall ready my ~~rotten eggs~~ welcoming party for the new guy!

Seriously? GAY

I was hoping for mad anti-diddy combos. :sad:

But it was some new guy in the Meet & greet who likes playing as Kirby. Gave him a few links, but he's not on now.

And speaking of eggs...

SkylerSilver · Feb 27, 2010

TaterSalad0811 said:
Hey guys, sorry to bump, but are there any "researchers" that would mind helping me with a little project? I got the idea since we're doing a Diddy Kong MU.

I'd like somebody to test exactly what moves can combo out of a banana trip, what ones can result from a glide toss, and what moves act as follow-ups (moves that can be avoided, but often hit regardless)

Thought it would be good for the MU.

Hmmmm....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWB_7cRXNs8

This COULD help.

TaterSalad0811 · Feb 27, 2010

SkylerSilver said:
Hmmmm....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWB_7cRXNs8

This COULD help.

What is this, I don't even...

HOW did you guys NOT find something like this before!?

Tiersie · Feb 27, 2010

Kewkky said:
Our glidetoss is so bad, we literally look like we're standing still.

And who's this person? I shall ready my ~~rotten eggs~~ welcoming party for the new guy!

We do have a jump cancelled throw though, which is pretty easy to do, just initiate/be in a dash, then press jump and throw a the same time, we don't go too far, but we make a fair slide I'd say.

Kewkky · Feb 27, 2010

TaterSalad0811 said:
What is this, I don't even...

HOW did you guys NOT find something like this before!?

Some of us have, it's just that in the heat of a match, it's impossible to set it up. Diddy's not just gonna stand there and let us jump over him with a banana in hand, if he trips and we try to set it up he's going to roll away and our banana will fall on the floor, and that's it for the Banana Lock... There's lots of characters with Banana Locks too, but they're all very impractical due to their start-up nature (we have to be in an advantageous position, and trip him then re-catch the banana before we land to start it up).

And Jump-Cancelled Item Tosses... Kirby still gets a super small boost, almost going nowhere. Diddy trips and falls backwards farther than the amount of distance we travel when we jump-cancel item toss. That's how sad it is for us.

TaterSalad0811 · Feb 27, 2010

Kewkky said:
Some of us have, it's just that in the heat of a match, it's impossible to set it up. Diddy's not just gonna stand there and let us jump over him with a banana in hand, if he trips and we try to set it up he's going to roll away and our banana will fall on the floor, and that's it for the Banana Lock... There's lots of characters with Banana Locks too, but they're all very impractical due to their start-up nature (we have to be in an advantageous position, and trip him then re-catch the banana before we land to start it up).

And Jump-Cancelled Item Tosses... Kirby still gets a super small boost, almost going nowhere. Diddy trips and falls backwards farther than the amount of distance we travel when we jump-cancel item toss. That's how sad it is for us.

What about a DACUS? can we do that at least?

Tiersie · Feb 27, 2010

TaterSalad0811 said:
What about a DACUS? can we do that at least?

Nope, just sliding usmash.

TaterSalad0811 · Feb 27, 2010

Tiersie said:
Nope, just sliding usmash.

Isn't that what a DACUS is, or are you referring to just canceling a run into an up-smash?

Tiersie · Feb 27, 2010

TaterSalad0811 said:
run into an up-smash?

Yes.

Sorry for stating that wrongly. But no Kirby does not have a dacus.

TaterSalad0811 · Feb 27, 2010

What A.T. CAN Kirby do?

thrillagorilla · Feb 27, 2010

Tiersie said:
Yes.

Sorry for stating that wrongly. But no Kirby does not have a dacus.

Actually, he does. All characters do. Its just whether or not its useful. Kirby's isn't.

What A.T. CAN Kirby do?

Not any, really. Most of his techs are universal (AKA doable by all characters) and he doesn't have very good versions of those. He is a very simple character in regard to ATs. t1mmy should have most everything you need to know about the character listed in his guide.

TaterSalad0811 · Feb 27, 2010

Well, there goes any hope of crazy new combos *sigh*

SkylerSilver · Feb 27, 2010

TaterSalad0811 said:
Isn't that what a DACUS is, or are you referring to just canceling a run into an up-smash?

DACUS= Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash

Hyphen Smash= Is a running up smash.

TaterSalad0811 · Feb 27, 2010

Who comes up with these names?

Lord Viper · Feb 27, 2010

☆ Same people that come up with the names of gimp, turtle, camp, plank, etc. XD ☆

Kewkky · Feb 27, 2010

TaterSalad0811 said:
Who comes up with these names?

Hyphen came up with the Hyphen Usmash, and DAC came up with the DACUS.

TaterSalad0811 · Feb 27, 2010

Kewkky said:
Hyphen came up with the Hyphen Usmash, and DAC came up with the DACUS.

But doesn't DACUS mean "Dash-Attack-Canceled-Up-Smash"?
So was his name and the acronym just a coincidence or did he change it to match?

Kewkky · Feb 27, 2010

TaterSalad0811 said:
But doesn't DACUS mean "Dash-Attack-Canceled-Up-Smash"?
So was his name and the acronym just a coincidence or did he change it to match?

It was more or less the same as Seibrik's DASC, known both as Da Awesome Seibrik Combo and Dash-Attack Shield Cancel.

TaterSalad0811 · Feb 27, 2010

So what's "turtle"?

~Shao~ · Feb 27, 2010

G&W b-air.

Kirby Research Thread - OP has new stuff

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