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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

Sieguest

Smash Master
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San Diego, CA
Then instinct says that the first thing to do is disable the opponent...(from a mewtwo standpoint) that would mean mindgrabbing the arm cannon....

From a Samus stand point the first thing to probably do is to get the quickest shot off to provide time to do something else...

Which is better?

well we finally started corroborating instead of pure arguing...
There's a difference between discussion and argument...
 

payasofobia

Smash Champion
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The setting has been that the characters know they are enemies, and upon discovery of each other they begin the fight (the only exception being ivysaur vs. yoshi, because their intelligence wouldn't allow that reaction).


The combatants know that the other is out there, and they need to find each other.




CERTAIN WEAPONS had stack capabilities.

The problem with suggesting that ALL weapons have stack capabilities is that many of the weapons work on totally opposite principals, and the games where they don't have stack capabilities have the weapons included being unique from the weapons that did in a variety of ways.


Weapons can only stack if proven to be stackable.
Well, from my experience, it has always been like I said. Even matches that featured stealth (like snake vs wolf) began with the characters knowing exactly where the opponent is. Hiding comes after they both begin fighting.


Lets wait till tomorrow, please, i need to sleep now. Way too tired.


LETS CONTINUE TOMMORROW
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
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Well, from my experience, it has always been like I said. Even matches that featured stealth (like snake vs wolf) began with the characters knowing exactly where the opponent is. Hiding comes after they both begin fighting.


And her log

Later topics we sort of explicitly defined it as being "on encounter".


Try the peach match-up.


The thing is, this style drastically hurt observation tools which are an important part of a character's skillset.



Edit: I'm around to discuss when I'm around to discuss, I've got a very busy schedule IRL, for most of tomarrow I will not be around.
 

Sieguest

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So basically...we need to determine the circumstances of the battle...

a randon encounter...

or preknowledge of existence in a battlefield?
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
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Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA


Pokemon
|
Super Smashes
|
Interactions
|
Strategy
|
  • Guillotine
  • Whirlpool
  • Hone Claws
|
  • Bisharp can hit Alakazam's spoons like his Metal Claws, which makes them behave just like them until they return to Alakazam.
  • Full-charge Hydro Pumps will remain in the air/where they explode for 5 seconds when they hit Reflect or are Grabbed/Zair'd/Side B'd by Alakazam, and will continue to slightly push foes away from the center of the burst, but deal no damage.
  • When Bisharp commands Feraligatr to use a smash attack, Gatr's smashes are performed 25% faster than normal. When Bisharp and Feraligatr are the only Pokemon remaining, Feraligatr can also command Bisharp with his Smashes due to experience.
|Alakazam and Feraligatr box foes in nicely here with aerial water traps, lettign them fall prey to Bisharp's impressive ground game. Even better with a Whirlpool out, foes will be hard pressed to play perfectly or else get shredded by bleed damage or worse yet, get the Guillotine! A slightly easier team to master, yet hard to jump right into, they sport some of the best KO combos of any team.
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA


Pokemon
|
Super Smashes
|
Interactions
|
Strategy
|
  • Assist
  • (Triple Finish)
  • Hone Claws
|
  • Water attacks will make Leech Seeds grow, causing them to heal the attacks % back in full as well as emit an aura for 1% healing per second in a 1/2 platform radius around the foe.
  • If an opponent is under the effects of Spore's poison, Bisharp's bleed damage will extend by 1/2 a second per hit instead of 1/4 second when applicable. If the opponent is paralyzed or slept by Spore, Bisharp's attacks will do 25-50% more KB respectively.
  • When Bisharp commands Feraligatr to use a smash attack, Gatr's smashes are performed 25% faster than normal. When Bisharp and Feraligatr are the only Pokemon remaining, Feraligatr can also command Bisharp with his Smashes due to experience.
|It'll be a grueling battle of attrition for any foe going up against this team. Super Heals combined with loads of Bleed Damage, heavyweights and long-range smashes, they'll be quite the force to be reckoned with once they get the key hits in. If you like stacking the odds in your favor while putting down your foe, this is the team for you!
|
TRIPLE FINISH
|
  • On activation, Breloom will do the first two hits of his Jab, then follow with Sky Uppercut. If it all connects, the screen will zoom in on the foe as he's launched upward with Breloom, who cancels the uppercut to Zair and tosses them further up, only to be intercepted by Bisharp's Dair! Dealing a good deal of damage, but no KB as he passes through, Feraligatr can be seen in the little magnifying glass below as the foe reels in hit-stun. During this time before they hit the ground, Gatr can walk about and pretty much land the free smash attack of his choice, granted the player accurately follows the falling victim's DI!
|
 

UncleSam

Smash Master
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Oct 14, 2008
Messages
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*jaw drops*
I explained this already, you people
Smooth Criminal and Adum, have you played any metroid game? fire at a door which would reflect any beam and watch it hit your face for 0% I've said this TWICE already.
I ALSO explained that telepathy wouldn't do anything because either:
The suit is in hypermode
the suit filters the electrical pulses
Telepathy (Greek τηλε, tele meaning "distant" and πάθεια, patheia meaning "to be affected by",[2]) refers to the transfer of information on thoughts or feelings between individuals by means other than the five classical senses (See Psi).
thought=brain wave=electrical pulses due to firing of neurons in the brain
my alter ego said:
Which beam are you talking about? All of samus' beams have different properties.
he was talking about the Annihilator beam Clark
As I said, drop her into a black hole, or just keep her in place until she starve to death, runs out of oxygen, the suit runs out of energy, whatever.
Boost Ball, I explained this read back
Can Samus REALLY stay standing after a self shot?
just explained it 3 times. Do I have to repeat myself again?
because that's what everybody seems to be doing right now.
Mewtwo has no need to aim and will know the exact location of samus due to telepathy at all times (if only due to telepathic blind spot).
look above, sheesh
As I said, drop her into a black hole, or just keep her in place until she starve to death, runs out of oxygen, the suit runs out of energy, whatever.
1.did mewtwo do that in his canon
2.boost ball... that's the 4th time
3.look at two you have eyes
4.look at three
seriously, is going to continue forever since everybody keeps repeating themselves, BOTH SIDES
wtf guys?
*leaves*
EDIT: taking a break?
psssssh
EDIT2:
also, i was referring to mewtwo's reaction time, if samus gets a quick shot in first....wouldnt it stun mewtwo, seeing as he focuses on disabling samus first, thus releasing samus to fire more?
if it is the Imp or the nova beam he isn't stunned, he's dead!
EDIT3:
I like editing
tocador said:
If it pierces through varia, it shall pierce trough the other, unless you can prove it is more RESISTANT to THAT type of shot, witch pro-samus need to prove.
Phazon suit, Gravity suit, Dark suit, Light suit, PED suit, Hypermode, are all more resistant than the varia suit.
the only suit that is weaker than the varia suit is the power suit (ya' know that boring armor downgrade from MP1)
yet another EDIT:
Consider this:

Even if something doesn't penetrate your armor...what about the sheer force behind it?

Just some food for thought.

Edit: I honestly don't think Samus could, say, eat a missile to the chest and not go flying off of her **** feet and at the very least be somewhat disoriented.

Smooth Criminal
Fight any stealth Pirate in MP1, they come up close and hit you with their energy sword, it doesn't disorient you, you can still fire, you can still react.
woohoo another EDIT!:
marthage said:
Pivot at the elbow...

@the quick draw theory *point to payasofobia's edit*
That just brings the match up to 500-500 as that is all dependent on chances, probability and a something called
"who flinched"
that's when samus ISN'T in Hypermode... chew on that one

See what a breather has done for this discussion? Heads are clear now aren't they?
lolno, look at what this has become!
 

payasofobia

Smash Champion
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Messages
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America!
Unofficial announcement of rules that should be added to the OP for the sake of disscusion.


None of us should reply to this thread with wall of texts explaining why our character wins. It hurts the dissccusion because usualy these responses start out strong but then in our hurry to finish quickly, we start half-assing our points midway through the post.

This also makes other people make half-***** responses to our posts that may completely miss the point we were making, thus it starts a cycle of senseless bickering that hurts the disscusion and makes no progress at all.



Instead, let us discuss an aspect of the match-up throughly and reaching a conclusion before discussing another aspect of the match-up. This makes for better discussions, the overall conclusion is more accurate and diminishes the flame wars and missunderstandings.



TL;dr: Keep it clean people.
 

UncleSam

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Messages
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Troy, NY
Unofficial announcement of rules that should be added to the OP for the sake of disscusion.


None of us should reply to this thread with wall of texts explaining why your character wins. It hurts the dissccusion because usualy these responses start out strong but then in your hurry to finish quickly, people start half-assing their points midway through the post.

This also makes other people make half-***** responses to your posts that may completely miss the point you were making, thus it starts a cycle of senseless bickering that hurts the disscusion and makes no progress at all.
true, but this this happened than why were there 3 pages that I missed about arguments while I was asleep?
we technically finish, and when we are about to conclude, no more arguing and stuff, BAM **** starts flying everywhere
 

tocador

Smash Lord
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Hot chick Zone, Brazil
*jaw drops*
I explained this already, you people
Smooth Criminal and Adum, have you played any metroid game? fire at a door which would reflect any beam and watch it hit your face for 0% I've said this TWICE already.
I ALSO explained that telepathy wouldn't do anything because either:
The suit is in hypermode
the suit filters the electrical pulses

thought=brain wave=electrical pulses due to firing of neurons in the brain

he was talking about the Annihilator beam Clark

Boost Ball, I explained this read back

just explained it 3 times. Do I have to repeat myself again?
because that's what everybody seems to be doing right now.

look above, sheesh

1.did mewtwo do that in his canon
2.boost ball... that's the 4th time
3.look at two you have eyes
4.look at three
seriously, is going to continue forever since everybody keeps repeating themselves, BOTH SIDES
wtf guys?
*leaves*
EDIT: taking a break?
psssssh
EDIT2:

if it is the Imp or the nova beam he isn't stunned, he's dead!
EDIT3:
I like editing

Phazon suit, Gravity suit, Dark suit, Light suit, PED suit, Hypermode, are all more resistant than the varia suit.
the only suit that is weaker than the varia suit is the power suit (ya' know that boring armor downgrade from MP1)
yet another EDIT:

Fight any stealth Pirate in MP1, they come up close and hit you with their energy sword, it doesn't disorient you, you can still fire, you can still react.
woohoo another EDIT!:

that's when samus ISN'T in Hypermode... chew on that one


lolno, look at what this has become!
I dont feel like multquoting so just one big quote:

So yeah, mewtwo takes samus arm and points it into her head/armor. You say she can take 1 shot and be ok, but she wont just receive ONE shot and the mewtwo will release her.

Mewtwo will hold her in that position as long as he wants, and being able to tele far away, he wont need to be affraid of melee attacks.

Meaning that samus wont be able to use projectiles on him, and wont be able to melee either, meaning its a tie :D

EDIT: He posted this after i responded(he edited i think), so dont blame me :B
 

UncleSam

Smash Master
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Oct 14, 2008
Messages
3,809
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Troy, NY
Unofficial announcement of rules that should be added to the OP for the sake of disscusion.


None of us should reply to this thread with wall of texts explaining why your character wins. It hurts the dissccusion because usualy these responses start out strong but then in your hurry to finish quickly, people start half-assing their points midway through the post.

This also makes other people make half-***** responses to your posts that may completely miss the point you were making, thus it starts a cycle of senseless bickering that hurts the disscusion and makes no progress at all.



Instead, let us discuss an aspect of the match-up throughly and reaching a conclusion before discussing another aspect of the match-up. This makes for better discussions, the overall conclusion is more accurate and diminishes the flame wars and missunderstandings.



TL;dr: Keep it clean people.
read this tocador,
and boost ball... for the fifth time
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
jaw drops*
I explained this already, you people
Smooth Criminal and Adum, have you played any metroid game? fire at a door which would reflect any beam and watch it hit your face for 0% I've said this TWICE already.
I ALSO explained that telepathy wouldn't do anything because either:
The suit is in hypermode
the suit filters the electrical pulses
Game mechanics. I don't think they're capable of hurting enemies either (I've tried pretty hard in that department).


That doesn't mean samus is invincable, including to her own weaponry.


Even if so, you're missing the point. If she's invincable to her own shots she still can't fire THROUGH herself.

I wasn't expecting her to intentionally kill herself anyway.


Mewtwo just holds her in place preventing her from firing by holding the gun to her head/chest/crotch/whatever.


thought=brain wave=electrical pulses due to firing of neurons in the brain
Actually, there's considerable debate about whether it's the chemical reactions themselves and the electricity is a byproduct, but that doesn't mean that psionic energy is necessarily the same.


1.did mewtwo do that in his canon
*sigh* yes, he held individuals in place several times.


Regardless, we're drawing on the implications of abilities here.

2.boost ball... that's the 4th time
And how exactly does that help samus if she's being held psionically.

Fight any stealth Pirate in MP1, they come up close and hit you with their energy sword, it doesn't disorient you, you can still fire, you can still react.
woohoo another EDIT!:
Hold her gun arm to her head. She can't do a single thing.


that's when samus ISN'T in Hypermode... chew on that one


lolno, look at what this has become![/COLOR]
Same basic problem.


read this tocador,
and boost ball... for the fifth time
Mewtwo holds samus in place, what exactly can she do with boost ball if she's being held in the are by mewtwo?


every encounter is just like the show:

the environment is shown, the two combatants enter from either side...pause, then ***** the other is a threat...THEN they fight


also, i was referring to mewtwo's reaction time, if samus gets a quick shot in first....wouldnt it stun mewtwo, seeing as he focuses on disabling samus first, thus releasing samus to fire more?
Sort of as I was asserting, they know the opponent is there but not exactly where.


Also, it depends on the shot, but most would kill mewtwo.


The thing is, mewtwo's disabling is effectively instantanious once he reacts to samus' presence since he's required to just think it as opposed to making a motion. Samus needs to find mewtwo first.


To make her weapons home, samus has to lock on (which requires a line of site, except for the ones with limiting homing capacity. Otherwise, she'd just home in on everything including local flora and fauna.
 

UncleSam

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Messages
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1)Game mechanics. I don't think they're capable of hurting enemies either (I've tried pretty hard in that department).


That doesn't mean samus is invincable, including to her own weaponry.


2)Even if so, you're missing the point. If she's invincable to her own shots she still can't fire THROUGH herself.

I wasn't expecting her to intentionally kill herself anyway.


3)Mewtwo just holds her in place preventing her from firing by holding the gun to her head/chest/crotch/whatever.




4)Actually, there's considerable debate about whether it's the chemical reactions themselves and the electricity is a byproduct, but that doesn't mean that psionic energy is necessarily the same.




5)*sigh* yes, he held individuals in place several times.


Regardless, we're drawing on the implications of abilities here.



And how exactly does that help samus if she's being held psionically.



Hold her gun arm to her head. She can't do a single thing.




6)Same basic problem.
1)they are, I've shot enemies behind me and killed them
2)it does no damage to her or her suit so why would it matter?
3)boost ball- you've played echoes right?
4)could of said that earlier, but even then if they are chemical reactions that fact that you are transferring them makes it even more fuzzy + hzrard shield
5)I meant the black hole :rolleyes:
6)didn't I explain how hypermode prevents strong forces from even moving her? or even pin her down?
7)I'll stop arguing if you stop arguing... we both know this will never end
 

payasofobia

Smash Champion
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America!
Adum, lets start from where we left:

JOE! confirmed the way the matche starts, so they both know where they are.

-------
Stacking beams:

The only beams that haven't been shown to be stackable are the echoes ones, but the dark beam is nothing more than an ice beam and the light beam is the same as the plasma beam in function, so it does not make a difference.

And the uncharged power beam has been shown to have an auto home in feature in the other games, though it is not as useful as the Anihilator beam's tracking abilities.

-------
Suit's protection:


And about samus being sent into a black hole....her gravity suit alone negates the gravity so sending her into a black hole or a proton star won't work, any damage from superheated areas is nillified so sending her into the sun won't work and her acid armor protects her from any kind of poison a planet may have.


Her suit is inmune to vacuum so taking the air away from the power suit won't work, and unless Mewtwo has the patience and the concentration to keep Samus on 100% hold for all the time it takes her to starve, starving may probably not work because her morph ball changes the composition of her body and she will change at the slightest moment Mewtwo loses his concentration.
 

UncleSam

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The only beams that haven't been shown to be stackable are the echoes ones, but the dark beam is nothing more than an ice beam and the light beam is the same as the plasma beam in function, so it does not make a difference.
actually, the charge beam for light and plasma are different, but that's trivial I can understand if you missed it
 

adumbrodeus

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1)they are, I've shot enemies behind me and killed them
2)it does no damage to her or her suit so why would it matter?
3)boost ball- you've played echoes right?
4)could of said that earlier, but even then if they are chemical reactions that fact that you are transferring them makes it even more fuzzy + hzrard shield
5)I meant the black hole :rolleyes:
6)didn't I explain how hypermode prevents strong forces from even moving her? or even pin her down?
7)I'll stop arguing if you stop arguing... we both know this will never end
1. Ok, fun fact. But still, game mechanic. Samus isn't described OOC as being immune to her own weaponry. Just lazy programmers.

2. Simple, mewtwo gets to move her wherever he wants, and prevent her from doing absolutely anything. Mewtwo either drops samus into something that can kill her, or prevent her from doing essential things like eating. In the latter case, it would be a long drawn out fight. But mewtwo would win.\\

3. Yes. It was in hunters too. But again, mewtwo is holding her aloft telekenetically, so it doesn't really matter. He's free to redirect the momentium wherever he wants or just oppose it.

4. And?

5. That's just hypercompression. We've seen that mewtwo has the ability to apply this much force. I'm not the only one who thinks that it stands to reason that mewtwo has that ability, what was his up-smash in melee again?

6. I don't have corruption yet, so how exactly does it prevent this? And source it, please.

7. No.
 

payasofobia

Smash Champion
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Feb 13, 2008
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Adum, lets start from where we left:

JOE! confirmed the way the matche starts, so they both know where they are.

-------
Stacking beams:

The only beams that haven't been shown to be stackable are the echoes ones, but the dark beam is nothing more than an ice beam and the light beam is the same as the plasma beam in function, so it does not make a difference.

And the uncharged power beam has been shown to have an auto home in feature in the other games, though it is not as useful as the Anihilator beam's tracking abilities.

-------
Suit's protection:


And about samus being sent into a black hole....her gravity suit alone negates the gravity so sending her into a black hole or a proton star won't work, any damage from superheated areas is nillified so sending her into the sun won't work and her acid armor protects her from any kind of poison a planet may have.


Her suit is inmune to vacuum so taking the air away from the power suit won't work, and unless Mewtwo has the patience and the concentration to keep Samus on 100% hold for all the time it takes her to starve, starving may probably not work because her morph ball changes the composition of her body and she will change at the slightest moment Mewtwo loses his concentration.

Those are just power suit facts, not disscusion points. Except for the very last part, which brings us to the next point: How long can Mewtwo keep his concntration and how often does he need to sleep/piss/****/eat/**** sexy loppunies?
 

UncleSam

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1. Ok, fun fact. But still, game mechanic. Samus isn't described OOC as being immune to her own weaponry. Just lazy programmers.
that's because there is no OOC, we have much less stuff to work with than you do

3. Yes. It was in hunters too. But again, mewtwo is holding her aloft telekenetically, so it doesn't really matter. He's free to redirect the momentium wherever he wants or just oppose it.
I skipped the other one because of boost ball which I will be further explaining in this, it boils down to reaction time, samus could be out of M2's control once he realizes that.

what hazard shield? prevents harmful or alien sources from entering her suit... it's a corruption item I can understand if you didn't know of it

5. That's just hypercompression. We've seen that mewtwo has the ability to apply this much force. I'm not the only one who thinks that it stands to reason that mewtwo has that ability, what was his up-smash in melee again?
NOT A BLACK HOLE! if it was he'd be top tier hands down,
it's a collection of dark energy
THIS is the black hole: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96FDQSfd8a0
6. I don't have corruption yet, so how exactly does it prevent this? And source it, please.
wikitroid is gay and doesn't describe specs of hypermode
"only what if fires and how you get corrupted"
in corruption only 2 things can hurt you:
Dark Samus
and phazon grenades developed by the pirates
and the latter doesn't even damage you it just results in a hypermode failure
no boss knocks you around while in hypermode.
meanie.
 

payasofobia

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I still think that the victtory goes to samus because samus wins on two of the 3 who shoots first outcomes, and it may end in a draw 50/ 50 win for mewtwo if he attacks first because the only thing that can kill samus is starving her....possibly.
 

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
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Tri-state area
Adum, lets start from where we left:

JOE! confirmed the way the matche starts, so they both know where they are.

Yes, he did.

Enter from opposite sides of the enviroment DOESN'T mean that they know where they are.


Seriously, watch and episode of the show: http://www.spike.com/full-episode/spartan-vs-ninja/31578


The actual enter is shown at about 38 minutes.
-------
Stacking beams:

The only beams that haven't been shown to be stackable are the echoes ones, but the dark beam is nothing more than an ice beam and the light beam is the same as the plasma beam in function, so it does not make a difference.

And the uncharged power beam has been shown to have an auto home in feature in the other games, though it is not as useful as the Anihilator beam's tracking abilities.
Weapons with the same name have different properties in different games, metriod prime's ice beam is different from metriod fusion's.

The stackable weapons are the 2d metriods, and they only stack within that game, except when identical to those in other games in all ways.


Also, you forgot about the weapons in corruption and hunters, some of which are totally unique.

-------
Suit's protection:


And about samus being sent into a black hole....her gravity suit alone negates the gravity so sending her into a black hole or a proton star won't work, any damage from superheated areas is nillified so sending her into the sun won't work and her acid armor protects her from any kind of poison a planet may have.
Gravity still affects her with the gravity suit, it just reduces friction and resistence, otherwise she'd just float away in every game.

The main issue with a black hole is the massive pressure however, approaching infinite.


Her suit is inmune to vacuum so taking the air away from the power suit won't work, and unless Mewtwo has the patience and the concentration to keep Samus on 100% hold for all the time it takes her to starve, starving may probably not work because her morph ball changes the composition of her body and she will change at the slightest moment Mewtwo loses his concentration.
I doubt that the suit has been tested under, for example, a billion tons of pressure per square inch.


And not really, mewtwo has shown the ability to do these things on a casual basis. Especially when you consider that it would still take time to reaim, and samus will have to react to the break, whereas mewtwo will already know, making mewtwo have more then sufficent advantage in reasserting control.



that's because there is no OOC, we have much less stuff to work with than you do


Yes there is, Samus' log files.


I skipped the other one because of boost ball which I will be further explaining in this, it boils down to reaction time, samus could be out of M2's control once he realizes that.
Problem is, mewtwo can re-establish it, anywhere.


what hazard shield? prevents harmful or alien sources from entering her suit... it's a corruption item I can understand if you didn't know of it
The hazard shield is only tested in limited enviroments, and it's space pirate tech, so saying that it works against everything from outside is a little much since they don't have the tech in the canon do to it.

NOT A BLACK HOLE! if it was he'd be top tier hands down,
it's a collection of dark energy
THIS is the black hole: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96FDQSfd8a0
Lol, no, check it out. That's an exact rendition of what a black hole "looks like", including fundamental attributes.

Not to be confused with the glitch.


I often joke that canon power is inversly proportional to tier in smash, a multi-dimensional omniscent would be trash tier in smash (aka, a monotheistic god).

wikitroid is gay and doesn't describe specs of hypermode
"only what if fires and how you get corrupted"
in corruption only 2 things can hurt you:
Dark Samus
and phazon grenades developed by the pirates
and the latter doesn't even damage you it just results in a hypermode failure
no boss knocks you around while in hypermode.
A video works.
 

payasofobia

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
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Location
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Yes, he did.

Enter from opposite sides of the enviroment DOESN'T mean that they know where they are.


Seriously, watch and episode of the show: http://www.spike.com/full-episode/spartan-vs-ninja/31578


The actual enter is shown at about 38 minutes.


Weapons with the same name have different properties in different games, metriod prime's ice beam is different from metriod fusion's.

The stackable weapons are the 2d metriods, and they only stack within that game, except when identical to those in other games in all ways.


Also, you forgot about the weapons in corruption and hunters, some of which are totally unique.



Gravity still affects her with the gravity suit, it just reduces friction and resistence, otherwise she'd just float away in every game.

The main issue with a black hole is the massive pressure however, approaching infinite.




I doubt that the suit has been tested under, for example, a billion tons of pressure per square inch.


And not really, mewtwo has shown the ability to do these things on a casual basis. Especially when you consider that it would still take time to reaim, and samus will have to react to the break, whereas mewtwo will already know, making mewtwo have more then sufficent advantage in reasserting control.
'the environment is shown, the two combatants enter from either side...pause, then ***** the other is a threat...THEN they fight'

I doubt they would both know they are a threat if they don't see each other, and usualy the arena is flat.

But let's just ask JOE! for a more detailed setting or this will just degrade into a mindless bickering. And even then Samus has countless visors that lets her see through objects and her ship has radar capabilities, so she probably knows there is a powerful psionic entity from the moment she enters the planet and its exact location.

--------------

On the stackable beams, all of the corruption beams are stackable, they are not individual weapons, and I actually did not take the Hunter's beams into consideration since I did not play that game and did not deem the weapons as completely unique. The beam stays the same any way or the other.

--------------

And as shown in Metroid fusion, Nightmare was equipped with a gravity suit that even gave him the ability float while exerting such a huge amount of gravity pressure around him, and the X that was dominating him also had the the gravity suit upgrade within him, so it is safe to say that the gravity not only reduces friction, but also creates its own gravity field around it, letting it move freely even at highest gravity environments.
 

tocador

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I dont kow how this hypermode works, can someone please explain it to me =X?

Im to lazy to google it.

Edit: I haz conclusion.

In none of the other fights, we used all the games in one.

Like in ganondorf x Ike battle, each ganon had his own battle with ike, and because he won 2 of the 3 battles he won the match.

Therefore its unfair to use all of samus games in one, meaning that we should use only ONE game as reference, or all of them in specific battles.

edit2: But i think that the last samus game has all the things we are all ready dicussing and it wouldnt help that much, so what about doing individual battles against the different samus :D? That way we could see from WHAT point samus starts owning mewtwo :D.
 

payasofobia

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Hyper mode sacrifices a bit of her energy to supercharge every single weapon she has with phazon, which is a dangerous energy resource that can kill the user if not used properly.


So it basically uses up an energy tank and augments the power she has by the number of tanks she vents into the hyper mode and makes her invulnerable to everything.



Edit: I haz conclusion.

In none of the other fights, we used all the games in one.

Like in ganondorf x Ike battle, each ganon had his own battle with ike, and because he won 2 of the 3 battles he won the match.

Therefore its unfair to use all of samus games in one, meaning that we should use only ONE game as reference, or all of them in specific battles.

edit2: But i think that the last samus game has all the things we are all ready dicussing and it wouldnt help that much, so what about doing individual battles against the different samus :D? That way we could see from WHAT point samus starts owning mewtwo :D.

Because that was a realistic fight, the only thing that changed were the weapons and those were vastly different time period versions that could not have all of their weapons at once.

While samus has stack capabilities in her suit, making it entirely possible to have all her upgrades. And they all have the same abilities, except for a few exceptions.
 

adumbrodeus

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'the environment is shown, the two combatants enter from either side...pause, then ***** the other is a threat...THEN they fight'

I doubt they would both know they are a threat if they don't see each other, and usualy the arena is flat.
Please, watch the fight which I explicitly referenced to.

It's from the series that we're talking about. Since it's defined as "same as in the TV show", this perfectly illustrates it.

But let's just ask JOE! for a more detailed setting or this will just degrade into a mindless bickering. And even then Samus has countless visors that lets her see through objects and her ship has radar capabilities, so she probably knows there is a powerful psionic entity from the moment she enters the planet and its exact location.
No precombat knowledge.

Also, samus' vizors all have limited range and don't go through everything.


Even if we assume they do, she requires precious time to find mewtwo's actual location, aim, lock on and fire. Mewtwo's gambit is instantaneous. Once he knows where the opponent is.

On the stackable beams, all of the corruption beams are stackable, they are not individual weapons, and I actually did not take the Hunter's beams into consideration since I did not play that game and did not deem the weapons as completely unique. The beam stays the same any way or the other.
Hyper beam...

There's also nothing to say they stack with the 2D beams.

--------------

And as shown in Metroid fusion, Nightmare was equipped with a gravity suit that even gave him the ability float while exerting such a huge amount of gravity pressure around him, and the X that was dominating him also had the the gravity suit upgrade within him, so it is safe to say that the gravity not only reduces friction, but also creates its own gravity field around it, letting it move freely even at highest gravity environments.
That's nightmare's suit, Samus doesn't get the full functionality, so it's safe to say that samus doesn't get the full functionality because she never gains the ability to do that. That fits for partially salvaged technology.


And even nightmare's uses is never shown to have the raw power to defeat the gravity of a singularity, remember, escape velocity greater then the speed of light?


Also, remember, it's the pressure that kills. Gravity just warps the space itself.
 

tocador

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Hyper mode sacrifices a bit of her energy to supercharge every single weapon she has with phazon, which is a dangerous energy resource that can kill the user if not used properly.


So it basically uses up an energy tank and augments the power she has by the number of tanks she vents into the hyper mode and makes her invulnerable to everything.
.
Is that like infinite? How long can she stay in that form?

BEcause then, if its only limited, mewtwo can just charge when the hyper finishes :D.

Fine then, we get to use MPT :D
<3 retro studios
I dont speak that language, MPT = metroid "power turbo?"
 

adumbrodeus

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I dont kow how this hypermode works, can someone please explain it to me =X?

Im to lazy to google it.

Edit: I haz conclusion.

In none of the other fights, we used all the games in one.

Like in ganondorf x Ike battle, each ganon had his own battle with ike, and because he won 2 of the 3 battles he won the match.

Therefore its unfair to use all of samus games in one, meaning that we should use only ONE game as reference, or all of them in specific battles.

edit2: But i think that the last samus game has all the things we are all ready dicussing and it wouldnt help that much, so what about doing individual battles against the different samus :D? That way we could see from WHAT point samus starts owning mewtwo :D.
I disagree.


We used all the zeldas together, we should use Samus together.


Especially because samus is one person. I'm assuming ganon had it done like for convenience.
 

UncleSam

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Is that like infinite? How long can she stay in that form?

BEcause then, if its only limited, mewtwo can just charge when the hyper finishes :D.
she can always go back, and once she becomes corrupted she can't leave hypermode until the PED auto vents,
BUT the phazon suit keeps supplying energy until you run out of phazon (play MP1) and since D. Samus infused phazon into Samus' body(play corruption) her PED suit allowes her to feed off of her own energy(hence why it takes an energy tank) the phazon suit will keep samus from auto venting because it wont end as long as samus is alive and kickin' with phazon in her
does that make sense?
EDIT: @tocador MPT= Metroid prime trilogy
Retro studios released it like last month it's all 3 prime games in one
 

payasofobia

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Please, watch the fight which I explicitly referenced to.

It's from the series that we're talking about. Since it's defined as "same as in the TV show", this perfectly illustrates it.



No precombat knowledge.

Also, samus' vizors all have limited range and don't go through everything.


Even if we assume they do, she requires precious time to find mewtwo's actual location, aim, lock on and fire. Mewtwo's gambit is instantaneous. Once he knows where the opponent is.



Hyper beam...

There's also nothing to say they stack with the 2D beams.



That's nightmare's suit, Samus doesn't get the full functionality, so it's safe to say that samus doesn't get the full functionality because she never gains the ability to do that. That fits for partially salvaged technology.


And even nightmare's uses is never shown to have the raw power to defeat the gravity of a singularity, remember, escape velocity greater then the speed of light?


Also, remember, it's the pressure that kills. Gravity just warps the space itself.

I cannot watch the video, care to send me another link?

----------
Finding the opponent:

The precombat knowledge is also part of samus's abilities, so it pretty much counts. Her ship is also part of her weaponry as shown in metroid prime 3 so it counts.

And you have to look in Metroid prime's 3 X ray visor. It pretty much sees through everything and identifies targets behind cover as a red spot. Try it everyhere and you will see.


----------
The beams:

The hyper beam has the abilities of every single beam except the wide beam, so that is a bad example.


----------
Gravity:

Actually, the X in those games have been shown to be able to perfectly mimic their hosts abilites, and if the X perfectly mimiqued Nightmare's abilities, and samus absorbed it and got the gravity suit, then it's pretty safe to assume that Samus's gravity suit has the same gravity warping abilities as nightmare's.

So the suit is not inmune to gravity, it just has its own gravity field.


And samus was also shown to survive in extremely high pressures (nightmare's gravity control, massive underwater pressures etc) without even the Gravity suit and in zero mission, with no suit at all. Her body itself was fine.
 

tocador

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she can always go back, and once she becomes corrupted she can't leave hypermode until the PED auto vents,
BUT the phazon suit keeps supplying energy until you run out of phazon (play MP1) and since D. Samus infused phazon into Samus' body(play corruption) her PED suit allowes her to feed off of her own energy(hence why it takes an energy tank) the phazon suit will keep samus from auto venting because it wont end as long as samus is alive and kickin' with phazon in her
does that make sense?
EDIT: @tocador MPT= Metroid prime trilogy
Retro studios released it like last month it's all 3 prime games in one
The only thing i understood form your post was that MPT = metroid prime trilogy :D.

I never played a samus game, so thats why im pretty much ignorant around that.
 

adumbrodeus

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she can always go back, and once she becomes corrupted she can't leave hypermode until the PED auto vents,
BUT the phazon suit keeps supplying energy until you run out of phazon (play MP1) and since D. Samus infused phazon into Samus' body(play corruption) her PED suit allowes her to feed off of her own energy(hence why it takes an energy tank) the phazon suit will keep samus from auto venting because it wont end as long as samus is alive and kickin' with phazon in her
does that make sense?
The problem is that makes it easy for her to become corrupted.

EDIT: @tocador MPT= Metroid prime trilogy
Retro studios released it like last month it's all 3 prime games in one
Not released here yet, mine's on pre-order, not till the 25th.
 

payasofobia

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Makes it easy only if the opponents throws phazon at her. Part of corruption's balance mechanics to keep people from overusing the hyper mode. Otherwise, she is fine.
 

n88

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This match seems incredibly close to me. Why not call it a draw? That way there can be an even number of characters going into round two.
 

uhmuzing

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This match seems incredibly close to me. Why not call it a draw? That way there can be an even number of characters going into round two.
It doesn't matter if these two go into go into Round 2 because we obviously can't pit them against realistically bound combatants. (What is Joe gonna do with 'em?)
 

payasofobia

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Seems pretty close, but like I said:

Who shoots first?


Both have super reaction times, both have ways to know where each other is and both are super beings from their universes so:


Samus shoots first she wins.

Both shoot at the same time, Samus wins because Mewtwo would not have time to do anything to her.

And if Mewtwo grabs Samus first.... Samus can survive pretty much everything except maybe starvation, and there is a sure way around that.


For Samus is a:

Win

Win

Draw
 

UncleSam

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Cant mewtwo get those tanks from her? I mean he can move objects, so wouldnt he be able to unplug those from her?
dude read two posts back about the phazon suit
In corruption D. Samus corrupts Samus, making her body infused with phazon, her body would generate phazon. the PED takes phazon from her OWN body to do this.
mewtwo taking phazon tank from her would be like mewtwo ripping out Samus' soul
plus mewtwo would have no idea how the feck to use it, the phazon would kill him if he let it touch his body
 

tocador

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dude read two posts back about the phazon suit
In corruption D. Samus corrupts Samus, making her body infused with phazon, her body would generate phazon. the PED takes phazon from her OWN body to do this.
mewtwo taking phazon tank from her would be like mewtwo ripping out Samus' soul
plus mewtwo would have no idea how the feck to use it, the phazon would kill him if he let it touch his body
LoL, he dosent need to use it, just take it away from her, and do what paya said: That thing with phazon that would hurt her alot :D.
 

payasofobia

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Yeah, but Mewtwo can't shoot phazon.

And look at melee, Mewtwo cannot redirect energy projectiles like Falso's or Fox's or the charge beam. He can only redirect the missiles.
 

adumbrodeus

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I cannot watch the video, care to send me another link?
Can't, it's directly from the sight.


But the point is, they start on opposite ends of an area with tall grass, some trees, etc, the ninja see the spartan first, (which stands to reason because the main training is observation and stealth), he then sneaks up on the spartan and ... yells loudly before attacking.


Yes, the problem with this show is that it really doesn't take into account tactics, just weapons. It's interesting for a weapons buff like me, but one on one the ninja would win because his tactics would be more effective, blow gun from hiding place = death.



The precombat knowledge is also part of samus's abilities, so it pretty much counts. Her ship is also part of her weaponry as shown in metroid prime 3 so it counts.
No, we set them down on opposite sides of the field, tell them their enemies are out there, and let them fight. We have no idea where they were .00005 seconds earlier, just that they're there now.

Saying the precombat knowledge counts means that we make assumptions about how they approach.


And no, as per the show's standards, vehicles are out.

And you have to look in Metroid prime's 3 X ray visor. It pretty much sees through everything and identifies targets behind cover as a red spot. Try it everyhere and you will see.
You're sort of misunderstanding my point, it doesn't feature magnification, at great enough range, the red blip isn't noticable. Also, it's x-ray, not everything goes through x-rays. This photo illustrates pretty clearly it's limited.



Furthermore, before being informed, how does she know mewtwo is an enemy?


----------
The beams:

The hyper beam has the abilities of evry single beam except the ice beam because it kills the opponent in one hit, so that is a bad example.
No, it's just extremely powerful.


----------
Gravity:

Actually, the X in those games have been shown to be able to perfectly mimic their hosts abilites, and if the X perfectly mimiqued Nightmare's abilities, and samus absorbed it and got the gravity suit, then it's pretty safe to assume that Samus's gravity suit has the same gravity warping abilities as nightmare's.

So the suit is not inmune to gravity, it just has its own gravity field.
Samus is not an x, she got some of their attributes and that allows her to gain the abilities she gains, but there's no suggestion of perfect absorption, otherwise she'd LOOK like nightmare. Which she doesn't.


And samus was also shown to survive in extremely high pressures (nightmare's gravity control, massive underwater pressures etc) without even the Gravity suit and in zero mission, with no suit at all. Her body itself was fine.
High grav=/=black hole.

It's like saying that hitting somebody with a pebble is the same as hitting them with 400 ton boulder.

You think the difference is too much, well wrong.



Black holes have gravity approaching infinity as you approach the event horizon.

Samus' gravity suit has NEVER been tested under those conditions, only in slightly raised gravity.

Yeah, but Mewtwo can't shoot phazon.

And look at melee, Mewtwo cannot redirect energy projectiles like Falso's or Fox's.
In melee they use 1/99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999th of mewtwo's actual power.

That's why he's trash tier.

It's not canon anyway, I just used it as an illustration.


Seems pretty close, but like I said:

Who shoots first?


Both have super reaction times, both have ways to know where each other is and both are super beings from their universes so:


Samus shoots first she wins.

Both shoot at the same time, Samus wins because Mewtwo would not have time to do anything to her.

And if Mewtwo grabs Samus first.... Samus can survive pretty much everything except maybe starvation, and there is a sure way around that.


For Samus is a:

Win

Win

Draw
Again, mewtwo always shoots first. If only because samus has to aim.


And no, there's not a way around starvation.
 
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