TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[UncleSam]

LoL, he dosent need to use it, just take it away from her, and do what paya said: That thing with phazon that would hurt her alot :D.

actually paya misunderstands...
phazon HEALS you, M2 throwing phazon at her would be helping her,
he's talking about a phazon grenade which is a sticky grenade that overloads the PED system forcing you into hypermode, in your corrupted form
the only phazon that could possibly hurt her is from D. Samus and that's because D. Samus got beefed up when fighting her on Phaaze

Furthermore, before being informed, how does she know mewtwo is an enemy?

*facepalm*
I didn't know Adum said stupid things
who do you think samus is fighting in the first place?

 

[adumbrodeus]

*facepalm*
I didn't know Adum said stupid things
who do you think samus is fighting in the first place?

Context


The discussion was about pre-combat knowledge, how does samus know that mewtwo is an enemy before she's dropped randomly into whatever place the battle takes place and told she's an enemy.


The same follows for mewtwo by the way.

 

[payasofobia]

I will not quote your post, otherwise my post will look large, but I will respond. Just wait a few minutes.

 

[tocador]

inb4wall-of-text.

Samus has such a dark history, and such a cool one, i think ima start playing her games just because of you guys :D. The only thing i dont like is the game playstile, but i can find a way around that.

 

[payasofobia]

---------
Knowledge:


Actually, we are not including vehicles per se, the ship just sends samus a message of whatever has caught his radar's attention and sends a signal to Samus about it's finding.

And Mewtwo could have pre-combat knowledge too considering his psychic powers are powerful so yeah, they are both the same.

---------
X ray visor:


The image you are using there is of a room that is completely sealed by walls, and she could still see through everything that was behind it.

And there is also the thing that the X-ray visor in metroif corruption is an amalgation of a lot of different visors there are, and it even features a scoping function as shown when you are shooting against a phazon pirate.

Conclucion: The x-ray vision is much more than a see through everything visor and features quite a lot of gadgets that lets Samus have a multitude of visual ranges.

------------
Hyper beam:


I just checked my Super Metroid. The Hyper beam does in fact pierce through walls and has every beam's function except the wide beam function.


-----------
Gravity suit:


The fusion suit has the ability of perfect absortion the Metroids have.

And this makes sense considering Metroid Prime could absorb all of that Pirate weaponry and absorb Samus's abilities and add her own.

So it is safe to assume that the absorbtion was perfect and that the gravity suit has the same gravity warping abilities that nightmare has.

And this would make her be able to survive black holes. Not because the suit can resist it, but because the suit creates its own gravity field.



---------
Mewtwo in Melee:


Even though Mewtwo was very weak in melee, that does not detract from it's viability as a reference.

I mean, we have no other way of knowing if he can deflect energy beams or not.


--------

Shooting first:


Like I said, the X-ray visor in corruption is much more than that and even has scooping capabilities, quickly locks on target and the beam itself homes in to the opponent.

And samus has super reflexes because she is the ultimate warrior.



-----------------------


Those are my two cents.

I am still sure this is a win for Samus.

 

[tocador]

"And samus has super reflexes because she is the ultimate warrior."

Mewtwo will have even better reflexes as he is the uber fighting machine.

Maybe he dont have the weaponary of samus, but for someone to produce brain waves, it sure has something going for him

 

[payasofobia]

Yeah, Mewtwo is awesome and is fast, but samus is an uber fighting machine created by the most advance civ in outer space...in the future.


Anyway, I won't be responding for a while.

 

[REL38]

As I said, drop her into a black hole, or just keep her in place until she starve to death, runs out of oxygen, the suit runs out of energy, whatever.

Doesn't Mewtwo also need oxygen to breath? So taking her into outer space wouldn't be happening if he can't breathe. Just wanted to point it out.

After reading the last 10 pages, I still don't see there being a clear winner.

 

[0RLY]

I hate this kind of matchup because Samus is my #1 favorite nintendo character and Mewtwo is my #1 Pokemon character. I would like to say I am extensively knowledgeable about both Pokemon and Metroid and they are in my top 3 favorite games (first being smash, of course!). Here is my explanation for this matchup.

It's difficult to assume real world ideologies for a character that's very far off into the future and an anime character that possesses supernatural abilities (I'm drawing from the anime because Mewtwo has more source material there). For example, while it is true that Samus' shots do not damage her when rebounded, in real life, they most definitely should.

THE QUESTION
The most difficult question of this matchup would be, how extensive are Mewtwo's psychic powers? All we know is that telekinesis psychokinesis is what Mewtwo uses. Psychokinesis is not confirmed to exist, so we cannot judge what it's based upon. Essentially, it's just breaking the laws of physics. In order to judge the winner of this matchup, we must determine what or how psychokinesis is performed. Or we can take all our guesses and determine the winner based on the averages (kinda like how we did Ganon). The following are my two guesses.

Does Mewtwo's Psychic attack concentrate air molecules so that they are hard as diamond to pick up objects? If it's electrical, it may interfere with some of Samus' suit options. If it's the manipulation of air using the mind (Mewtwo was seen making a hurricane from very far away simply by twiddling his fingers), then Samus may still have the chance to scan Mewtwo to find an answer. After a successful scan, Samus should be able to pull through in this match since Samus isn't supposed to lose. Mewtwo can be captured by a Poke Ball, and thus, is capable of losing (Why isn't there a Mewtwo vs. PokeTrainer?).

MEWTWO'S DEFENSES
We know for sure that Mewtwo can indefinitely and flawlessly rebound any and all of Samus' projectiles, however, there is also the issue of whether it uses PP or not. In the anime, I don't think Ash has ever commanded Pikachu to use Thunder Bolt more than 15 times in one episode. There must also be a reason why the trainers save the Power Points of powerful attacks until they need to use them. If we assume that Mewtwo needs to use PP to reflect Samus' attacks. Then Mewtwo can only stay safe for so long. Mewtwo also needs to use PP for offensive moves too, so lets take that into account. The attack in question is obviously Psychic (10 PP). It can be improved with PP Ups, so that increases it to 16. That still seems pretty small since Samus can carry 255 missiles. This shouldn't be too much of an issue since Mewtwo can Teleport to dodge. Mewtwo gets to use 32 Teleports with maxed PP Ups. That should be more than enough since a fight between two powerful individuals (two that will likely win this whole contest) should end very quickly.

SAMUS' DEFENSES
Assuming fully upgraded suit, Samus is invulnerable to temperatures around the temperature of magma (about 1300° Celcius or 2400° Fahrenheit). As well as... uh... really cold places. I don't know what temperature it is around Phendrana Drifts or Sector 5. All this means is that Mewtwo probably isn't going to be very successful using Flamethrower or Ice Beam... not that Mewtwo would even attempt to use an offensive move other than Psychic...

Anyways, the gravity suit's abilities have been explained before somewhere by someone. I dont think much of Samus' upgrades from Metroid Prime 2: Echoes have much effect on the real world, so I'll ignore that. The PED Suit from Corruption does bring up a sense that Samus can become invincible at will and can stay invincible for short periods of time as long as she does not attack or get hit by a Phazon based attack. Mewtwo possesses none, so Samus is invincible as long as she does not attack. However, Mewtwo should probably be able to harness the power of any phazon attack Samus uses and rebound it back at Samus, similar to what Samus does to Dark Samus in MP2:E. Samus will likely not attack when in corrupted mode, so why did I write type all this again...?

Yeah, it's really hard to write about defending against an imaginary attack. Oh! Samus' Power Suit protects her from any and all fall damage (I guess Samus didn't have the Power Suit upgrade in Metroid Prime: Hunters).

BASIC STATS
If we assume Pokemon HP and Metroid's health system to be on the same plane, we're talking about 1499-2099 HP (Samus) vs. 353-416 HP (Mewtwo). Mewtwo is 6'07" and weighs 269 lbs. Samus is 6'03" and weighs 198 lbs.

***Random Question*** Was there an psychokinetic-ish attack in MP2:E that Samus could escape using the Boost Ball? If so, which Boss used it? I'd like to look up more info about that.

MEWTWO'S ABILITIES
Mewtwo can fly, teleport, make psychic shields, he's pretty much invincible. Mewtwo's psychic attack is capable of picking up and controlling people like marionettes or rag dolls. He is also capable of controlling minds with his psychic power as well as erase memories. However, Mewtwo's most interesting skill is his ability to manipulate time (!!!!!). Mewtwo is seen returning a LARGE party of people and Pokemon back in time. SOURCE: Mewtwo Strikes Back

In my opinion, Mewtwo is the Chuck Norris of Pokemon, infinitely badass and omniscient. He probably has already done just about anything and learned everything while no one notices or remembers any of it. When Mewtwo started his career, he probably drank a 2 liter bottle of Powerthirst before pwning everything with his pwnsomeness. If that doesn't work, he'll just clone you and have the clone pwn you for him.

SAMUS' ABILITIES
First off, let me say that Samus has already defeated like what? Three clones of herself already? So the cloning thing on Mewtwo isn't going to work. Other than that, Samus is incredibly agile despite wearing heavy armor. Essentially a super human with all human stats exceeding maximum, but no natural abilities beyond that. Her Varia Suit provides her with defense from a variety of environments and enemy weaponry as well as a startlingly wide array of attack options. I cannot judge whether her futuristic weaponry can or cannot penetrate Mewtwo's happy shield. The Wave Beam, Wavebuster, and Nova Beam are most likely the attacks that are capable of penetrating Mewtwo's defenses. It is not known what effects phazon may have on Mewtwo, and whether or not Mewtwo is vulnerable to radiation. Radiation poisoning is serious business. Sure, Mewtwo can rebound Samus' attacks but her scan visor should be able to find a weakness (since everything has weaknesses... I think Mewtwo's was blackmail [SOURCE: Mewtwo Returns]). Note that Samus' armor is practically invincible to all physical trauma. She takes 0% damage after Ridley drags her body against a wall while flying at high speeds in that SSE cutscene.

Spoiler

That note I just made was totally a joke XD! Though, it can be serious if you want to =).

Personally, I am biased towards Samus because Metroid ranks #2 on my top 3 games while Pokemon ranks #3. However, I do believe Mewtwo has a slight upper hand because the extent of his powers are unknown while Samus' are known.


EDIT: If it's a tie, do they both move on? If so, I wish it were a tie.

ALSO, if this has to be as REALISTIC AS POSSIBLE. Samus would win. Psychokinesis does NOT exist and Mewtwo would be powerless. Have fun using Mega Punch!

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

What Payasofobia said.

Samus is basicaly invincible and Mewtwo cannot win no matter what he does.

Its either: win, win or draw for samus.


If samus shoots first: Mewtwo is pulverized and Samus goes on with her life.

If both shoot at the same time: Samus is grabbed by Mewtwo for a few seconds, but in the end Mewtwo is pulverized before he can do anything.

Mewtwo shoots first: No earthly material can destroy samus, and Mewtwo cannot breathe in outer space, and even if he were to create an air bubble, he will run out before he reaches a black hole or anything. And even if he reached a black hole the suit won't be destroyed.

And in order to starve samus he would need to keep his concntration to its full capacity for the few weeks it takes to starve the ultimate warrior with her life support system. And during that time he would have to go on with his daily activities like eating and getting rid of bodily wastes and that wold greatly diminish his concentration, leaving him vulnerable to samus.


So in that case it is a draw.


Samus wins 2 out of three and Mewtwo does not win any fight.

 

[UncleSam]

Mewtwo will have even better reflexes as he is the uber fighting machine.

jeez you guys were telling us yesterday "watch the movie" in the movie mewtwo wasn't complete, there were no further experiments on him, he realized that he was just a tool and decided to escape.
Good **** Orly, but wouldn't PPmax and Ice beam, flamethrower, ect. be obtained by human influence which mewtwo resents?
all he has are barrier, psychic, and fighting moves XP
well whatever, I'm working on super-special-awesome fan art for this match... I hope I can finish it >.<
I'm also completing a party in diamond...
EDIT: btw 911 posts... moment of silence

 

[tocador]

What Payasofobia said.

Samus is basicaly invincible and Mewtwo cannot win no matter what he does.

Its either: win, win or draw for samus.


If samus shoots first: Mewtwo is pulverized and Samus goes on with her life.

If both shoot at the same time: Samus is grabbed by Mewtwo for a few seconds, but in the end Mewtwo is pulverized before he can do anything.

Mewtwo shoots first: No earthly material can destroy samus, and Mewtwo cannot breathe in outer space, and even if he were to create an air bubble, he will run out before he reaches a black hole or anything. And even if he reached a black hole the suit won't be destroyed.

And in order to starve samus he would need to keep his concntration to its full capacity for the few weeks it takes to starve the ultimate warrior with her life support system. And during that time he would have to go on with his daily activities like eating and getting rid of bodily wastes and that wold greatly diminish his concentration, leaving him vulnerable to samus.


So in that case it is a draw.


Samus wins 2 out of three and Mewtwo does not win any fight.

But, if the draw happens like 8 out 10 times, it really should be a tie.

It dosent matter if in 1 of 1000 fights a shooting star would hit samus and she would die, or she tripped onto a death laser of mewtwo, we are here looking for the most common one, witch is prolly the DRAW.

 

[UncleSam]

But, if the draw happens like 8 out 10 times, it really should be a tie.

It dosent matter if in 1 of 1000 fights a shooting star would hit samus and she would die, or she tripped onto a death laser of mewtwo, we are here looking for the most common one, witch is prolly the DRAW.

okay then, so the only person we need to convince in Adum, it's prolly a draw with few occasions where Samus would win and few occasions where M2 would win...
tally it up and it might be 50/50
...just sayin
should I start my super-special-awesome fan-art?

 

[tocador]

You shall start it :D

 

[UncleSam]

You shall start it :D

alright, I found some blank drawing paper to work with... I'll start soon, I won't be offline alot like JOE is, there just might be random times where I'll be on for an hour yet I'm not doing anything
EDIT: Imma gonna do 2 pictures, one where samus has the advantage and one where mewtwo has the advantage
and for M2 I'm not going to make it where he holds her down for a week, that'd be boring >.>
I'll think of something epic
EDIT2: the only reason I'm not doing it now is because I'm fixing some texture issues with smashville
it sux that I can't fight on one of my favorite stages with textures

 

[tocador]

Ok, do your stuff.

While you do that, i'll play msg4 :D

 

[UncleSam]

aw tocador has the easy part
play metroid
experience its awesomeness
EDIT: I'm using Samus' light suit as the base of the suit and stacking phazon suit and PED for t3h fanbase
should I use concept version? http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/f/f1/LightSuit_concept1.png
or official version? http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/6/68/Lightsuit.jpg
definately using concept for the PED http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/a/a4/PED_beta_artwork1.jpg

 

[JOE!]

Pokemon​

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Super Smashes​

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Interactions​

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Strategy​

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• Dragon's Rain
• Sharpen_APP
• Hone Claws

|

• Feraligatr can fill Trick Rooms with water, with his specials and smashes generally filling 1/3-1/2 based on charge, and other moves filling 1/4 of the volume. Foes passing through the now filled Trick Rooms will be slowed to 1/2 speed, as well as the water absorbing Energy-Based attacks. The water depletes at a rate of 1/5th of it's max capacity a second however.
• If a foe is Locked-On, Night Slash/Metal Claws/Sucker Punch/Faint Attack all will home in on the targeted foe automatically.
• When Bisharp commands Feraligatr to use a smash attack, Gatr's smashes are performed 25% faster than normal. When Bisharp and Feraligatr are the only Pokemon remaining, Feraligatr can also command Bisharp with his Smashes due to experience.

|Watery Trick Rooms add a new piece to Bisharp's playing field with this team, and combined with Lock on, reliable Bleed damage and stage-covering damage, the stage is set for total foe lock-down! A bit tougher to grasp than most other teams, the key to victory here is swapping back and forth to get the most out of each aspect of the pairs, usually Team2 swaps in order for Bisharp to space both his and Z/Gatr's smash attacks effectively around Trick Rooms.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Mewtwo may greatly surprass Samus in psionics, but at everything else, and specially stamina, samus surprasses him making her wait longer and fatigue will not get her till a few months because of her ultimate warrior status and her extensive physical training.


TL;dr: Samus wins the waiting game.

 

[UncleSam]

sam, why do you stalk me?

anywho, i woke up an hour ago..as I said, **** basement flooded...


this match has been interesting.... unmovable object meets irresistable force

it was mewtwo heavy..then samus, then seems to be a draw....however, in the 3 scenarios listed, it does seem Samus may have the slight edge if she IS able to shoot...whereas if mewtwo controls her....what can he do to her other than hold?

you torture us by not being able to make a decision, so I lurk your profile to see if you are on or not
anywho guys answer my edit from my pervious post
EDIT: you sleep in your basement?

 

[payasofobia]

Mewtwo may greatly surprass Samus in psionics, but at everything else, and specially stamina, samus surprasses him making her wait longer and fatigue will not get her till a few months because of her ultimate warrior status and her extensive physical training.


TL;dr: Samus wins the waiting game.

Exactly. Her training and chozo blood gives her more than quick reflexes you know?

She is a super athlete too after all.



EDIT: even with more and better arguments and less chaos and flame wars, Samus still wins.


I give this fight a minimun: 550:450 and a maximum of 700:300 win rate for samus.


It's up to JOE! to decide the exact rate.

 

[UncleSam]

It's up to JOE! to decide the exact rate.

he's never going to decide
and plz answer my Q for tocadors sake he wants to see a super-special-awesome fan-art for this match:
this?http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/f/f1/LightSuit_concept1.png
or this.http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/metroid/images/6/68/Lightsuit.jpg
EDIT: why do people randomly leave?

 

[payasofobia]

Then I will decide......625:375 In Samus's favor.


And the link is broken.

 

[UncleSam]

check now, I fixed them

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

I'll see what I can do.

 

[UncleSam]

TIME vs EFFORT
WHEN JOE NEEDS TO MAKE A CEWL PIC...

from the OP,
since it's taking him forever, I'm going with effort he must be putting all of his photoshop skillz to the test

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Sorry, can't do anything yet.

Anyway, I am going with effort.

 

[UncleSam]

can't do what?
effort wins 100-0
that or JOE could finish it fast he just didn't start yet

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Nothing. Forget it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Mewtwo may greatly surprass Samus in psionics, but at everything else, and specially stamina, samus surprasses him making her wait longer and fatigue will not get her till a few months because of her ultimate warrior status and her extensive physical training.


TL;dr: Samus wins the waiting game.

Except containing samus would be a casual act, not something to cause fatigue. Hold her aloft, keep her gun pointed at herself, apply some redirecting force to keep her from moving to anything she can use (that way he doesn't need to oppose it).

In the meantime, mewtwo can just carry on with his life. You know, eat, drink, be merry.



I will also note that stone blocks in mechanisms have shown capacity to do damage and even crush samus in her morph ball form.

So, mewtwo could put stuff above her, heavy enough in total to destroy her, and let gravity do the work.

sam, why do you stalk me?

anywho, i woke up an hour ago..as I said, **** basement flooded...


this match has been interesting.... unmovable object meets irresistable force

it was mewtwo heavy..then samus, then seems to be a draw....however, in the 3 scenarios listed, it does seem Samus may have the slight edge if she IS able to shoot...whereas if mewtwo controls her....what can he do to her other than hold?

The scenarios are bunk.

But again, so far I've only touched on a tiny bit of mewtwo's ability.


I wanted to establish that mewtwo has at least one perfectly viable, inescapable scenario. And again, mewtwo will shoot first.


From there I can start dismanteling arguments that mewtwo's telepathy can't puddle samus' brain, that mewtwo doesn't have the raw power to crush her, ect.

I'm concentrating on this because it got lost in the shuffle.

stuff

For the ship to transfer useful knowledge, it has to be nearby.

Ultimately the issue comes down to you're making assumptions about what happens before they are put into the battlefield, but we're essentially dropping them there.


Basically, if we make assumptions like that, we get into issues of who anticipates farther ahead, and then we get a situation like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZktNoK4wDo

2:44 onward.


Finally, let me point this out, even if she knows where mewtwo is, she still has to physically aim, lock on, and fire. Mewtwo only has to think, which is faster?


As for the vizor, in the picture I showed, those solid walls completely eliminate the effects of the vizor. So, the point is, it depends on the material, it can't penetrate everything.


Again, remember, they're x-rays. X-rays don't go through everything.

If nothing else, using the scope from longer rangers clause the things that you can actually see to build up, making a picture impossible.


Hyper beam has functionality, but it's not the actual beams.

That's the point I was making, it's a unique weapon regardless of it's functionality.



EVERYTHING creates it's own gravity field.


But only extremely powerful gravity fields can counteract the effects of a black hole. You know, like another black hole, and it has to be outside to pull things away from the black hole. Putting a tiny slide on a large slide doesn't mean that it won't slide down.

Do I really have to explain basic physics behind gravity?



It's not about the weakness, it's the fact that mewtwo in smash is not actually mewtwo, it's just a trophy that looks like mewtwo.

It's created to be similar to actual mewtwo, but it's not really mewtwo.


Thoughts are faster then actions, thoughts have to occur before actions can.


Samus has to find and lock onto mewtwo before she can fire (if she doesn't lock on, it'll home in on random fauna). Mewtwo will know where samus is immediately.

Mewtwo shoots first.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

ALSO, if this has to be as REALISTIC AS POSSIBLE. Samus would win. Psychokinesis does NOT exist and Mewtwo would be powerless. Have fun using Mega Punch!

Too bad this fight is (somewhat) canon-based. So, yes, psychokinesis does work. And if you want to get REALLY technical, Samus wouldn't be able to operate in the same capacity as she does in the game if this was strictly "realism."

>_>

And you guys aren't thinking outside of the box when it comes to psionics. Adumbrodeus and myself are, obviously. But just think! Nobody is THINKING about the little stuff.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Except containing samus would be a casual act, not something to cause fatigue. Hold her aloft, keep her gun pointed at herself, apply some redirecting force to keep her from moving to anything she can use (that way he doesn't need to oppose it).

In the meantime, mewtwo can just carry on with his life. You know, eat, drink, be merry.



I will also note that stone blocks in mechanisms have shown capacity to do damage and even crush samus in her morph ball form.

So, mewtwo could put stuff above her, heavy enough in total to destroy her, and let gravity do the work.




The scenarios are bunk.

But again, so far I've only touched on a tiny bit of mewtwo's ability.


I wanted to establish that mewtwo has at least one perfectly viable, inescapable scenario. And again, mewtwo will shoot first.


From there I can start dismanteling arguments that mewtwo's telepathy can't puddle samus' brain, that mewtwo doesn't have the raw power to crush her, ect.

I'm concentrating on this because it got lost in the shuffle.



For the ship to transfer useful knowledge, it has to be nearby.

Ultimately the issue comes down to you're making assumptions about what happens before they are put into the battlefield, but we're essentially dropping them there.


Basically, if we make assumptions like that, we get into issues of who anticipates farther ahead, and then we get a situation like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZktNoK4wDo

2:44 onward.


Finally, let me point this out, even if she knows where mewtwo is, she still has to physically aim, lock on, and fire. Mewtwo only has to think, which is faster?


As for the vizor, in the picture I showed, those solid walls completely eliminate the effects of the vizor. So, the point is, it depends on the material, it can't penetrate everything.


Again, remember, they're x-rays. X-rays don't go through everything.

If nothing else, using the scope from longer rangers clause the things that you can actually see to build up, making a picture impossible.


Hyper beam has functionality, but it's not the actual beams.

That's the point I was making, it's a unique weapon regardless of it's functionality.



EVERYTHING creates it's own gravity field.


But only extremely powerful gravity fields can counteract the effects of a black hole. You know, like another black hole, and it has to be outside to pull things away from the black hole. Putting a tiny slide on a large slide doesn't mean that it won't slide down.

Do I really have to explain basic physics behind gravity?



It's not about the weakness, it's the fact that mewtwo in smash is not actually mewtwo, it's just a trophy that looks like mewtwo.

It's created to be similar to actual mewtwo, but it's not really mewtwo.


Thoughts are faster then actions, thoughts have to occur before actions can.


Samus has to find and lock onto mewtwo before she can fire (if she doesn't lock on, it'll home in on random fauna). Mewtwo will know where samus is immediately.

Mewtwo shoots first.

But how can we be so sure that keeping samus in place is not going to be a tiring task? Psionics imply the use of your brain and concentration and in every work of fiction even the most powerful psychics have been shown to get extremely tired even when their psionics are being countered by physical attacks or the victim is struggling.

Pokemons are no different and multiple times has they been shown to get tired of using their psionics. And their psionics are treated as something similar as a muscle.



The ship has been shown to be able to send signals to samus from the other side of a planet as shown in metroid prime corruption and 1. And both will probabbly know exactly what they are going against.

The ship will tell samus something about the lines of: huge psionic source detected in a being in this sector. And Mewtwo will read Samus's mind and know what she can do. hey are equal.



And like he said earlier, those are not normal X-ray visors and probably has a lot of functionalities outside being jsut those.




The hyper beam does in fact have the same functions as those beams. it's different, but the functions are the same as every other beam+one hit kill. You are not helping mewtwo here.



About the gravity thing, unless Mewtwo can go to outer space that is not going to work.


And using confusion as an attack counts as an action. He must first try to concentrate to begin his attack and try to lift samus.

And since samus was made by superior super scientists, is probably psychic and has a top-notch physical abilites that greatly enhance her accleration, she will probably attack at the same time.

 

[adumbrodeus]

But how can we be so sure that keeping samus in place is not going to be a tiring task? Psionics imply the use of your brain and concentration and in every work of fiction even the most powerful psychics have been shown to get extremely tired even when their psionics are being countered by physical attacks or the victim is struggling.

Pokemons are no different and multiple times has they been shown to get tired of using their psionics. And their psionics are treated as something similar as a muscle.

Simple, it's a very simple task, and doesn't require much force to keep something in place, relative to stopping it.

For example, stopping the arm from moving forward or back, try holding you arm straight out, then bending it upwards at the elbow. Apply your finger on the opposite arm right above the elbow, try to make your arm straight bending only the elbow with one hand, while at the same time, trying to prevent that with the other. Easy to make your arm straight, right?

Now, same thing, but have your finger at the fist, not gonna work, right?


Basically, without space to build speed you can't apply anywhere near as much force as you can with space. Furthermore, applying the force to the right points allows you to hold somebody with significantly less force then they need to apply to get out.


If you were a grappler, you would know, the position I'm suggesting is a REST position, the kind of holds that grapplers use to let them get their second wind.

The ship has been shown to be able to send signals to samus from the other side of a planet as shown in metroid prime corruption and 1. And both will probabbly know exactly what they are going against.

The ship will tell samus something about the lines of: huge psionic source detected in a being in this sector. And Mewtwo will read Samus's mind and know what she can do. hey are equal.

We have no reason to assume that the ship is even in the same GALAXY as Samus for this fight.

Again, take the basic principals of the fight, we're taking random combatants from random locations and times and pitting them against each other with no outside resources, and no prior knowledge.


Take a look at the show again. It's just a random encounter, no assumptions beyond they know that they're enemies.

The hyper beam does in fact have the same functions as those beams. it's different, but the functions are the same as every other beam+one hit kill. You are not helping mewtwo here.

Context, this was about stacking.

About the gravity thing, unless Mewtwo can go to outer space that is not going to work.

It was an example, for now.

And using confusion as an attack counts as an action. He must first try to concentrate to begin his attack and try to lift samus.

Game mechanics. We went through this 5,000,000+ times.

And since samus was made by superior super scientists, is probably psychic and has a top-notch physical abilites that greatly enhance her accleration, she will probably attack at the same time.

Lolz at making random assumptions about her abilities.

Thought is faster then movement, period.

 

[payasofobia]

stuff

-------
Pressure on Mewtwo's mind:


I would like to mention that in all works of fiction Psychic blasts and holds have been shown to put a great deal of pressure into the user's brain, especialy if the target of said holds have great physical abilities that make the job hard for the user and ultimately tires them.

Pokemons are no exception, and multiple times throught the show and the manga have these holds been broken by more powerfull pokemons by the simple use of strenght. And Mewtwo himself in Mewtwo returns.

Mewtwo will get tired eventually.

-------

The ship:


The ship has been shown to be able to send information to her from massive distances in the metroid games, and no, there won't be issues because the information they are both receiving is general information and not detailed, unless they both stop at the same time to scan each other.

-------
Visor:


And about the X-ray visor, like I said, it is not your average visor and even if it does not completely goes thru walls, it does in fact show the red spot signaling where the enemy is, even if they are behind solid walls.

Just play the game and try it.

-------

The Hyper beam:

Like I said, the hyper beam has every other's beam abilitie.

And there is another thing. In the fight with mother brain her hyper beam completely destroyed any kind of weaponry Samus had as shown by the depleted weapon reserves and it malfunctioned her beams. If they had not malfunctioned then the hyper beam would have stacked like every other item.

-------
Gravity:

You are right about what you said.

But Mewtwo still needs to go to space to do that and try not to get attracted by the Black-hole's gravity.


-------

Actions vs toughts:

You are comletely right, thoughts need to happen before actions can, but are Samus's thoughts and actions really that slow when compared to Mewtwo's thoughts?

In order for mewtwo to be able to get a hold of her, he would still need to have a rational thought in order to do it, otherwise he may do something else. A psychic must be in total control of their actions in order to make them work.

Samus on the other hand, has a shoot prep time of a few nanoseconds and has reflexes honed by years of training and missions, of being partly a psychic and because of her upgraded body and senses. And everyhting occurs fast because the experience she has lets her do this by inertia.


So reflexes>thoughts>actions. Science proves it.


ps: the Morph ball still has the same armor as the suit. It has only been shown to be damaged by those in the earlyparts of the games when her suit is not very strong.

 

[UncleSam]

ps: the Morph ball still has the same armor as the suit. It has only been shown to be damaged by those in the earlyparts of the games when her suit is not very strong.

lol the elevators don't do jack****.
I'm not being serious now, just working on super-special-awesome fan-art

 

[payasofobia]

Anyway, I won't be able to respond till tomorrow's afternoon.


Edit: Adumbreous, noone cares about the Mewtwo vs Samus match-up anymore.

Everyone left and the only ones disscusing anything are you and me. Smooth is more like a wild card and MRG is not making any sense now. And Tocador and UcleSam already moved on with the EFFORT vs TIME disscusion.



And everyone else thinks that this fight ends in a tie, so lets just leave it at that.

The fight is a tie and we will leave this tie to be resolved in a realistic fight in the next round, where both fighters will probably be gimped like hell, there won't be endless speculation to worry about and the character's abilities can be proven more easily with facts about the world.

 

[JOE!]

Pokemon​

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Super Smashes​

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Interactions​

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Strategy​

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• Rock Smash
• Strength
• Hone Claws

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• With Metal Burst active, Bisharp can destroy Armantle's Rock creations to create explosions like Charizard's Brawl Side B with every hit for massive damage potential.
• When Feraligatr's Water hits Armantle's Lava, it cools into brand new, solid stage. Cooled lava is pass-through if extended to the air, just like platforms, but can be extended off edges and still be solid if done from a floor.
• When Bisharp commands Feraligatr to use a smash attack, Gatr's smashes are performed 25% faster than normal. When Bisharp and Feraligatr are the only Pokemon remaining, Feraligatr can also command Bisharp with his Smashes due to experience.

|Team heavy, the three bulkiest Pokemon play their best when they combine their efforts towards bullying the opposition to oblivion. Armantle and Bisharp love having Gatr on the team, as Bisharp now has command over Armantle's boosted Smash Attacks, with super-armor! Or, Gatr's quicker smashes atop Armantle's traps. Combine that with natural staying power and great damage output with Bleed and Lava damage, and you got yourself one mean team.

 

[JOE!]

time is winning by the way...

anywho, I dont think Mewtwo is *that* much faster:

In every source Ive seen him, he allways seemed to need a focus for his psionics, be it moving his head, his arm or taking a moment for it to take effect, it is not instentaneous.

Samus on the other hand is allways seen at the ready with her cannon pointed forward...it would take a microsecond for her to move her arm, shoot, anf be done with it.



also, for earlier: samus knows hes a bad guy becaus ehe's an orange blip on her radar



I beleive Im ready to call it a tie.....unless somebody has a means of pusing a few kills in either direction?

EDIT:

how does this look?

 

[adumbrodeus]

time is winning by the way...

anywho, I dont think Mewtwo is *that* much faster:

In every source Ive seen him, he allways seemed to need a focus for his psionics, be it moving his head, his arm or taking a moment for it to take effect, it is not instentaneous.

Here's the point, it happens at the same time.

Case in point, it's something he does, not something he NEEDS to do, check from 21 onward on this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW9vQ4sxaX8

Very obviously using psionics while just floating.

Samus on the other hand is allways seen at the ready with her cannon pointed forward...it would take a microsecond for her to move her arm, shoot, anf be done with it.

Any motion> lack thereof. Or happening at the same time. She still has to find mewtwo's actual location with her visors as well.


You also gotta remember, to home on mewtwo (which is required at this range to hit anything) she's gotta lock on.


All of which takes precious time, time samus doesn't have.

I beleive Im ready to call it a tie.....unless somebody has a means of pusing a few kills in either direction?

Plenty, I've only been touching on the implications of a tiny portion of her power so far.


For example, the suit is not immune to be dismantled, major portions of it were removed by surgery in metroid fusion. Mewtwo can use telekenesis to do the same thing.


He also has telepathy to puddle samus' brain.


And need I rememind you that he can take a half-instant out of his day to go "bull in a china shop" with the internal mechanism of samus' arm canon, ensuring that even if she does escape, she can't fire anything.



And you gotta remember that if samus cracks off a shot, her beams can't go through everything, at least the ones that can actually home. Almost all the corruption beams stack, but they can't go through everything.

The 2D metriod beams stack, but they can't home, they can go through stuff though.

And none of the other 3d beam really are particularly useful alone.


The point being that mewtwo can use psionics to mount a defense even if samus gets a shot at ultra-long range. None of the beams are instantaneous in reaching their target.

-------
Pressure on Mewtwo's mind:


I would like to mention that in all works of fiction Psychic blasts and holds have been shown to put a great deal of pressure into the user's brain, especialy if the target of said holds have great physical abilities that make the job hard for the user and ultimately tires them.

Pokemons are no exception, and multiple times throught the show and the manga have these holds been broken by more powerfull pokemons by the simple use of strenght. And Mewtwo himself in Mewtwo returns.

Mewtwo will get tired eventually.

As I explained before, pick the appropriate places to hold, and you can hold with almost no effort.

Again, in grappling there are a lot of holds that are RESTING POSITIONS, there's a reason for that, and mewtwo has a fair amount more versatility in where he can hold then I can in grappling.

Also, lack of space to build up momentum.

The ship:


The ship has been shown to be able to send information to her from massive distances in the metroid games, and no, there won't be issues because the information they are both receiving is general information and not detailed, unless they both stop at the same time to scan each other.

Again, we have no idea where the ship is, for all we know it could be in another universe.

All that I'm really worried about here is location and body shape, that's enough.

And about the X-ray visor, like I said, it is not your average visor and even if it does not completely goes thru walls, it does in fact show the red spot signaling where the enemy is, even if they are behind solid walls.

Just play the game and try it.

Again, over long distances the "not completely through part" will build up and obscure it based on the mechanics shown.

Like I said, the hyper beam has every other's beam abilitie.

And there is another thing. In the fight with mother brain her hyper beam completely destroyed any kind of weaponry Samus had as shown by the depleted weapon reserves and it malfunctioned her beams. If they had not malfunctioned then the hyper beam would have stacked like every other item.

Would've could've might've. I'm talking about what happened, not what could've been. Hyper beam is not stackable.

Actions vs toughts:

You are comletely right, thoughts need to happen before actions can, but are Samus's thoughts and actions really that slow when compared to Mewtwo's thoughts?

In order for mewtwo to be able to get a hold of her, he would still need to have a rational thought in order to do it, otherwise he may do something else. A psychic must be in total control of their actions in order to make them work.

Samus on the other hand, has a shoot prep time of a few nanoseconds and has reflexes honed by years of training and missions, of being partly a psychic and because of her upgraded body and senses. And everyhting occurs fast because the experience she has lets her do this by inertia.


So reflexes>thoughts>actions. Science proves it.

Scanning for an opponent and sniping over large distances is not reflexes, it's thoughts + actions. Take it from somebody who does rifling and paintballing, aiming at a target is an action, and even when you're really good at it, it requires conscious thought and action.

Having something appear and then shooting it immediately, that's reflexes, but it has to be (or appear to be) close enough to trigger the reflexes, and it has to be sudden, otherwise reflexes don't kick in.

ps: the Morph ball still has the same armor as the suit. It has only been shown to be damaged by those in the earlyparts of the games when her suit is not very strong.

Play Hunters, crushable throughout the game.

The more upgraded the harder, but hunters is fully upgraded suit throughout, you just get additional weapons.




And not interested in moving on till you guys understand the implications of psionics. And yes, mewtwo and samus will get gimped to to ****. More mewtwo though.

 

[JOE!]

Pokemon​

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Super Smashes​

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Interactions​

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Strategy​

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• Assist
• (Triple Finish)
• Guillotine

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• Alakazam can catch Seed Bombs with Jab/Grab/Confusion, making them behave like his Spoon Traps, and allowing Breloom to toss another.
• If an opponent is under the effects of Spore's poison, Bisharp's bleed damage will extend by 1/2 a second per hit instead of 1/4 second when applicable. If the opponent is paralyzed or slept by Spore, Bisharp's attacks will do 25-50% more KB respectively.
• Bisharp can hit Alakazam's spoons like his Metal Claws, which makes them behave just like them until they return to Alakazam.

|High offense is the name of the game, with all three combo-powerhouses sharing the stage! Alakazam is a cornerstone here, adding both spoons and Seed Bombs as both traps to work foes around, as well as extra projectiles for Bisharp to space foes with. Good for players of any level, just be wary of how fast you may end up going down due to the teams either low weight, weakness to being comboed, and/or mediocre recovery options.
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TRIPLE FINISH​

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• Alakazam teleports the trio to the foe, and proceeds to grab and Upthrow the foe, causing them to levitate slowly upwards to the height of the top Battlefield platform. While this happens, Breloom and Bisharp both jump up and the player can button mash for the both of them to beat the crap out of the foe for about a second with A (Bisharp, on the left side) or B (Breloom, on the right). Once the second is up, Alakazam will teleport the foe and the last button pressed (A/B) determines who he takes with him and in what direction (Bisharp goes right, Breloom goes left) about a platform off the stage in said direction, or just a platform from the screen if there are no edges. When this occurs, you can buffer in the attack of your choice from either Breloom or Bisharp as if they were on the ground, making for a quick death by an off-stage Fsmash! Alakazam then teleports everyone (except the foe) back on-stage.

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