Depster
Smash Champion
all of your definitions had the word "skill" in them. Nuff said.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Smash is NOT a Sport
- Thread starter InfiniteGXT
- Start date
- Status
Maikeru17
What the hell is this thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVJop6n27TM
While it's not directly referred to as a sport, it is on ESPN.
-Nòx`
fragbait
Smash Master
Incorrect sir. My High School research project was over gaming as a sport, and Encyclopedia Brittanica defines sport as
Competitive activity played in individually or in a team.
All of my 3 judges (including community leaders and teachers) agreed with my statement of Gaming (when organized) as a sport, which in turn classifies competitive gamers as Sports players.
Also, referencing your own def. of Athlete, while a Smash Player does not use all three aspects of athleticism, 2 of three are used, and 66% is still a majority. Also, those were referenced as general aspects, but not explicitly defined as athletic aspects. Therefore, by the specific part of the definition, which was
involving the use of physical skills or capabilities
Well, you have to have the physical skill to use the controller in order to perform what you want to. Muscle memory and dexterity are also physical skills.
Also, all sports as you define them are also games. Now, of course, I'm not saying the opposite is true, but doesn't that also make Athletes, professional Gamers? Since we define gamers as anyone who takes gaming seriously.
Furthermore, yes, you can tell the difference between NFL2k9 and real Football, as just playing NFL (or madden or whatever) isn't a sport, because sport also, requires competition, and competing with a CPU definatly isn't competion.
That's why ESPN and other sports outlets have begun covering gaming, such as MLG being covered by ESPN's camera crews, and having it's own Sportscenter top 10 show.
Any questions?
Competitive activity played in individually or in a team.
All of my 3 judges (including community leaders and teachers) agreed with my statement of Gaming (when organized) as a sport, which in turn classifies competitive gamers as Sports players.
Also, referencing your own def. of Athlete, while a Smash Player does not use all three aspects of athleticism, 2 of three are used, and 66% is still a majority. Also, those were referenced as general aspects, but not explicitly defined as athletic aspects. Therefore, by the specific part of the definition, which was
involving the use of physical skills or capabilities
Well, you have to have the physical skill to use the controller in order to perform what you want to. Muscle memory and dexterity are also physical skills.
Also, all sports as you define them are also games. Now, of course, I'm not saying the opposite is true, but doesn't that also make Athletes, professional Gamers? Since we define gamers as anyone who takes gaming seriously.
Furthermore, yes, you can tell the difference between NFL2k9 and real Football, as just playing NFL (or madden or whatever) isn't a sport, because sport also, requires competition, and competing with a CPU definatly isn't competion.
That's why ESPN and other sports outlets have begun covering gaming, such as MLG being covered by ESPN's camera crews, and having it's own Sportscenter top 10 show.
Any questions?
While it's true that video games and chess and stuff and smash (at least melee) are deserving of more than the title of "Game", I still don't ever classify them as sports. Sports are hockey, basketball, football, soccer, tennis, lacrosse, and a bunch of other similar things. They all require running/skating some form of movement as opposed to sitting in a chair and tapping buttons, or in the case of golf, just whacking a ball and then strolling along until you get to it again (Goalies in certain sports are exempt from this, and a a couple things in football like the kicker).
I think that a intermediate term needs to be created, because sport can't really cover such completely different things, that all just have the same goal in mind. Competitive game still sounds kinda lame though, and although e-sports was mentioned, it still doesn't cover golf, curling, chess, and other things that are almost sports.
(Edit, I posted this while the person above was posting, and it kinda makes mine look a bit uninformed
)
I think that a intermediate term needs to be created, because sport can't really cover such completely different things, that all just have the same goal in mind. Competitive game still sounds kinda lame though, and although e-sports was mentioned, it still doesn't cover golf, curling, chess, and other things that are almost sports.
(Edit, I posted this while the person above was posting, and it kinda makes mine look a bit uninformed
)
Llumys
Smash Champion
Poker isn't a sport.
fragbait
Smash Master
Sorry man! I'm very passionate about gaming and it's competitive future(Edit, I posted this while the person above was posting, and it kinda makes mine look a bit uninformed
Also, enough of this E-sports stuff. Gamers aren't second class competitors.
KZEZ
Smash Cadet
So I agree that smash isn't a sport but bringing dictionary.com as an authoritative source makes me cringe a bit. Actually based on your definitions provided I would be forced to say it is a sport. If you look at the definition with a elemental approach of "a sport" all you have to prove is that:
1.) it is an athletic activity
2.) that it requires skill or physical prowess
3.) that it is often competitive (not necessarily required but provides more justification.
1.a) athletic activity; The hardest point to argue is that it is an athletic activity. But if it involves the use of any of the following list the first element is satisfied: physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina. So in order to say that smash isnt a sport it must INVOLVE NONE of the things above. i am pretty sure a good argument could be made for the categories of "physical skills" and "agility." More specifically if we are taking dictionary.com as a legitimate source all one must ask is if smash involves the "ability to move quickly and easily." With the importance of movement in the game in addition to that of entering complex commands I believe the first element to constitute a sport would be met.
2.a) Skill or Prowess;
this is too easy as all you have to show is skill coming from ones knowledge, practice, or aptitude. Simply put if it is something which can be developed through knowledge, practice or aptitude then it satisfies this element. I don't think it would be a very hard argument to state that people who have more knowledge or practice are generally more skillful in smash so this tier would be met.
3.a) Often Competitive (optional prong)
Now more often than not smash is not seen as competitive by the people who play it. However, in the mind of the people who would call it a "sport" it is probably almost always competitive. Good thing often is very subjective and in the context of this board the "game" (not a mutually exclusive term from sport) does satisfy the "often competitive" test.
Do I think smash should be a sport? nope. but spent too much time at law school to agree with the conclusions based on the definitions.
p.s. I really do agree with people needing to validate themselves just like to play devil's advocate.
1.) it is an athletic activity
2.) that it requires skill or physical prowess
3.) that it is often competitive (not necessarily required but provides more justification.
1.a) athletic activity; The hardest point to argue is that it is an athletic activity. But if it involves the use of any of the following list the first element is satisfied: physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina. So in order to say that smash isnt a sport it must INVOLVE NONE of the things above. i am pretty sure a good argument could be made for the categories of "physical skills" and "agility." More specifically if we are taking dictionary.com as a legitimate source all one must ask is if smash involves the "ability to move quickly and easily." With the importance of movement in the game in addition to that of entering complex commands I believe the first element to constitute a sport would be met.
2.a) Skill or Prowess;
this is too easy as all you have to show is skill coming from ones knowledge, practice, or aptitude. Simply put if it is something which can be developed through knowledge, practice or aptitude then it satisfies this element. I don't think it would be a very hard argument to state that people who have more knowledge or practice are generally more skillful in smash so this tier would be met.
3.a) Often Competitive (optional prong)
Now more often than not smash is not seen as competitive by the people who play it. However, in the mind of the people who would call it a "sport" it is probably almost always competitive. Good thing often is very subjective and in the context of this board the "game" (not a mutually exclusive term from sport) does satisfy the "often competitive" test.
Do I think smash should be a sport? nope. but spent too much time at law school to agree with the conclusions based on the definitions.
p.s. I really do agree with people needing to validate themselves just like to play devil's advocate.
Stev
Smash Ace
People need to stop mentioning ESPN. ESPN stands for Entertainment & Sports Programming Network. Therefore, just because it's on ESPN, has nothing to do with it being a sport or not (the put world record tomato fights on their top 10 list. That's OBVIOUSLY not a sport).
fragbait
Smash Master
It was just a reference. I'm not at all using it to prove the Sports aspect. However, to most people ESPN coverage only comes to sports. I did say other sports outlets as well...selective quote maybe?
They did cover the MTG pro tour one year XD Card games are the only game I won't defend as sports.
Stev
Smash Ace
No rules or organization (no, getting everyone in one spot does not count as organization...), ergo, no sport
fragbait
Smash Master
Alright, I can understand that argument. Statement retracted
We need more informed debate in the boards that aren't exclusive.
Competitive (video)gaming is classified as E-Sports. By definition, Competitive Smashing is (E)-Sporting.
Just because you think that Competitive chess shouldn't be considered a sport doesn't mean it isn't officially recognized as a sport. Too many people are way too obsessed with only considering activities which are considered "highly physically taxing" (i.e., requiring really "manly" qualities such as stamina or strength) as sports. Walk into a sports bar and you'll have idiots arguing about whether or not a blatantly obvious sport is even a sport because it's not "manly" enough (such as, say, the nancy sport that is golfing).
No, a sport does not necessarily have to require one to be highly athletic. Words change, definitions change. Bridge is an Olympically recognized sport for crying out loud. Drag racing (both involving cars and boats) are considered sports. I mean, really? What, it's physically taxing because you have to, uh, turn the wheel and get thrashed around a lot if you run into someone? Also, poker.
Various sports involving marksmanship only requires one to be able to lift a gun. Then there's several kinds of skiing that doesn't actually require one to be physically fit to perform well in (but of course it helps) but which relies more on technique.
Old neanderthal-level definition clung to by chauvanistic men obsessed with things being "manly".
I stand corrected, I guess.
And speaking of bowling, it's not that physically taxing. My puny arms at 14 could get strikes and what-not.
Yes, actually, it is. At the very least in Europe. I was told by my Competitive DDR/ITG-playing friends that they became officially recognized as sports at least in certain parts of Europe sometime in 2007 or something.
You're confusing your high school essay with fact. Really, you wrote a high school essay on the issue and now you're an expert? Did you get an A++++ or something? Did the teacher send your essay in to the Olympic Committee to have them declassify bridge as a sport?
What difference does it make if you wrote an essay on the subject if several credible sources (such as the Olympic Games Committee) have proven you wrong?
Also, you're confusing something which is fluid (language) with something which is set in stone. The word "tyrant" originally meant "ruler". With time, its definition evolved into it's present-day definition. Likewise, the word "sport" may have originally meant "Manly activities requiring a lot of physical prowess whose definition is bestowed unto activities if enough manly men like it" or whatever, but tough luck, the world (and the word) has changed. I feel it in the water, I feel it in the air, I smell it in the earth.
Seasons change, so does the language.
ORLY? Starcraft, DOTA, Counter-Strike, Halo, pretty much all Competitive FPS and RTS are today referred to as e-Sports at most expos/major (sponsored) tournaments, etc. The same goes for fighting games, though since FPS:es and RTS:es are more popular at sponsored events, it's rare to have fighting games at these events (thus, rare to have them referred to as e-Sports).
South Korea has, what, 3 (or just the 1, I'm not sure) nationally syndicated TV channels dedicated to airing Competitive Starcraft matches. Competitive Starcraft players (in South Korea) have a profession (Competitive Starcrafting), sponsors (moolah!), get scouted to star in ads (more moolah!), groupies (geh?!) and get to have (no doubt gold-digging) trophy girlfriends who look like supermodels.
I guess it's just a widdle wideowame since it doesn't require one to tackle others or train in the gym for hours on end.
Yes it is. Poker has nothing to do with reflexes >_>'. As in, it's not actually a requirement for Competitive poker.
Too bad some people are too conservative to accept this change in definition. I don't even know if "manly physical prowess" was ever an official definition of a "sport" or if it's just something most people tacked onto the definition and are now insisting that this is how it's been since the dawn of time.
Why? Why do you think only activities involving running/skating movement should be considered sports?
There's golf. No running/skating involved in the actual physical aspect of golf. There's curling. You don't skate, really. You slide across the ice in order to be able to sweep it. Boccea is all about throwing stuff. Are you saying that weightlifting, sledgehammer-throwing and that one sport where you throw a ball on a chain aren't sports because they involve zero running/skating movement?
They are sports, whether you like it or not.
Unfortunately for you, it is.
I didn't feel like sifting through my Webster's manually.
While something which is prevalent in most sports, the definition has changed so that it's no longer a requirement.
There's also a flip side to this:
Many people who are against the inclusion of certain recognized sports into "the fold" also do it for self-validation. Because if the term "sport" remains exclusive to "manly" activities that require physical prowess, practitioners and even spectators can feel "special" and "exclusive" since only a chosen few can excel at the sports they tolerate as being classified as sports.
"I'm so special/My favorite sport is so special because it requires this and that and that other thing!"
Whether one likes it or not, the present-day definition of "sports" does include Competitive videogaming. I could care less for self-validation. It's about what's "right". And the facts speak for themselves: Videogames are sports (or e-Sports for those who want to differentiate between "traditional" sports and "electronic sports").
This entire thread is an argument over what it means to call something a sport. The reason we're doing that is because the term sport has a special connotation and, as mentioned, people want affirmation and/or glorification for their own pastimes.
If you continue to expand the definition of sport to include more and more things, you may wind up with a word that's about as descriptive as "thingamajig." By meaning anything, it means nothing. That said, this is an area where the divisions are pointless anyhow. We know the game has competitive value, tests a given set of skills and is buckets of fun to play and watch. So we should all chill and be friends. Happy times on smashboards, <3
(And for the record, thingamajig is actually recognized as a real word, at least by Google Chrome's spell checker.)
If you continue to expand the definition of sport to include more and more things, you may wind up with a word that's about as descriptive as "thingamajig." By meaning anything, it means nothing. That said, this is an area where the divisions are pointless anyhow. We know the game has competitive value, tests a given set of skills and is buckets of fun to play and watch. So we should all chill and be friends. Happy times on smashboards, <3
(And for the record, thingamajig is actually recognized as a real word, at least by Google Chrome's spell checker.)
'V'
Smash Lord
Ehhh.. I don't think smash is a sport, but most people really treat it as such.
Reioumu
Smash Lord
Dictionary.com sucks. Use a real dictionary like Merriam Webster
There are several definitions. Though one of them does emphasize physical activity but this one intrigued me
1 a : a source of diversion : recreation
Yeah... Though I know in our context, this isn't what we mean.
There are several definitions. Though one of them does emphasize physical activity but this one intrigued me
1 a : a source of diversion : recreation
Yeah... Though I know in our context, this isn't what we mean.
sevenmorehills
Smash Cadet
Lol, this is such a weird argument. I mean, how can we point to any source that says something is or isn't a sport? This isn't like classifying humans as mammals or green beans as vegetables-- there are no defined guidelines to follow, so it's all opinion.
Eggm
Smash Hero
The pro starcraft gamers do about 4-5 actions per SECOND on the keyboard/mouse sometimes for hours if a set goes long. They sweat like crazy and its really hard. Much harder than golf or bowling. And they are under similar amounts of pressure since last season they were playing for a 96,000 first place prize in gomtv. Thats pretty serious business. Smash has really high apm its been proven. Check the apm thread so its also really tough, I think that if we had sponsors and really high prizes like in SC it would be just as competitive and be able to be called a sport like SC. If moving your fingers isn't competitive or physically demanding I guess playing guitar or keyboard in a rock band is easy to put up a whole concert and keep up energy and not sweat. people just think if it doesn't have a ball or tackles or teamwork that it isn't a sport.
Edit : My whole post is about melee. Brawl isn't even close to a sport lollllllllllllll.
JFox
Smash Hero
just cuz its not a sport doesnt mean it holds more or less important than a sport. society has chosen in the past to glorify sports and right now looks at video games as a 'lesser' form of competition. just because the mainstream looks at something one way doesnt make them right.
so really, why do you care if its a sport? Is it because you feel embarrassed that you take part in what most people call a lesser form of competition? If ya do, thats ur issue. Frankly, I don't give a **** what ya call it.
so really, why do you care if its a sport? Is it because you feel embarrassed that you take part in what most people call a lesser form of competition? If ya do, thats ur issue. Frankly, I don't give a **** what ya call it.
Red-Blue
Was selected randomly
chess please .
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Wow guys, could we leave it at just Smash doesn't give you a work out and that if you wanna stay healthy you'd need to play a sport that gives you a work out. I don't care what is considered a sport according to definition, because deep down we all know what to consider a sport, and I am sure when you be honest with yourselves no videogame will come up in that though.
GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
We're not calling it a sport. we're just trying to legitimize it like sports are legitimized. If you thing about it, Sports stars aren't really that special. There good at something that isn't even productive(oh, I'm good at kicking or catching a ball). The only thing that makes sports legitimate is that they have millions of fans. Its popular. If we could just get competitive gaming to be popular like in Korea, we can make it legitimate like popular sports and we wont be wasting our time.
fragbait
Smash Master
This arguement has spilled over onto another forum. Some of them are a lot less civil than you guys. XD
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Gaming-as-a-sport-Please-read-the-discussion-and-respond
Troles.
http://worldbeyblade.org/Thread-Gaming-as-a-sport-Please-read-the-discussion-and-respond
Troles.
Stev
Smash Ace
Actually, i got 100% on that essay, but that is irrelevant.
You do realize it's called the Olympic Games Committee, not the Olympic Sports Committee. I personally think that for it to be a sport, you must be able to directly affect your opponent and directly control the outcome of the match at any point in time. Thus, i think everything in track and field are nothing more than individual competitions and are NOT sports. That, of course, is MY opinion, but I personally think those two factors are highly important. Now, of course, those two have nothing to do with my argument against smash being a sport, but in terms of the overall picture of a sport definition.
The third criteria (which my argument is based on) is that there must be some sort of injury factor. This indicates that there must be some sort of physical athleticism required, although you don't have to be a freak of nature like Lebron James, I DO think there should be a minimum amount of athleticism. You shouldn't be having massively overweight people thriving in a sport when they have such limited mobility (ie John Daily).
However, I do not have a problem with this being classified as e-sports because the name implies that it's electronic and thus it's implied that you're sitting in a chair pressing buttons / using keyboard and mouse
Drecker
Smash Ace
Jordan, why do you make threads like this?
Swoop&Dip to Fat Jordan's house today if you want some games.
Swoop&Dip to Fat Jordan's house today if you want some games.
fragbait
Smash Master
Funny thing is though, your character won't move unless you make it. You directly effect your opponents, disrupting strategies, and controlling the map, and that directs the outcome of the match. Why, at any given time, I can KO you and win the match. That sounds like affecting the outcome to me.
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
Stev
Smash Ace
You obviously didn't read everything i said cuz two sentences later i said smash meets this criteria, but not the other one which i explained in the following paragraph
CanISmash
Smash Lord
cosign with the who cares. its just petty definitions.
smash is as much as a sport as is racing, and golf.
high level competition. "pros in it"
anything can be a sport imo if the competition is truly there
smash is as much as a sport as is racing, and golf.
high level competition. "pros in it"
anything can be a sport imo if the competition is truly there
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
It is?
Huh. Well chess goes back in the day WAY more than video games ever have. Not much else to say about that.
Keblerelf
Smash Ace
Stratford
Smash Champion
In HS we definitely held smash practice every day after school.
The point is that it's an High School essay. It wasn't exactly a masters thesis.
Do you even know what the Olympic Games Committee is? "Games" is in the name because they're called the Olympic Games. And the committee classify all of those as sports, not as games. So, really, what was your argument here?
There are a bajillion sports which are not contact sports in which you cannot directly affect the outcome of your opponent. Like ballroom dancing or, really, any kind of dancing. Figure skating. Skiing. Anything where you are judged by judges (diving, figure skating, dancing, etc.) or even swimming.
I think I've proven sufficiently that what you think is wholly irrelevant.
Let me repeat myself:
I think I've proven sufficiently that what you think is wholly irrelevant.
Why should we place any weight on what you think again when, clearly, the majority of the people who decide what is and isn't a sport vehemently disagree with you?
And here you hit the nail on the head. You're yet another one of the neanderthals who think sports need to be "manly" and require "manly" things such as strength and athleticism, or, in your idiotic case: injuries!
Seriously, what kind of an argument is this?! A sport is only a sport if you can get injured doing it?!
TLDR version: Stev thinks that a sport can only be classified as such if one can get injured while participating in it.
null55
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2008
- Messages
- 3,500
lol, i love how you posted the definition of the word sport to help prove your point, since smash still applies to that definition. physical prowess can easily refer to your fingers. they need agility and precision to do what you want them to.
not that i have ever even classified it as anything other than a game.
not that i have ever even classified it as anything other than a game.
Oracle
Smash Master
Smash loosely fits the definition of a sport. It isn't traditional because there is no exercise involved, but it still has all of the other aspects of sports, like need to practice, technique, etc.)
You can get carpal tunnel, blisters, sprained wrists/fingers...
- Status