Ignore.

Mr9 said:

lol you really are posting everywhere

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Yeah I know....
I thought I'd share my Samus stuff here I also have the flu right now, so I really can't do much

Xyro, if you could tell me which character I can do from GaW, Ike, Snake, Ganon, Marth and IC, I'd be happy to do one or maybe two!


EDIT: Sorry for the double post

Lucia,please do not double post like that. if i were you, i would wrie up articles for all of them and PM them to me. ill put them on the front page

Xyro77 said:

Lucia,please do not double post like that. if i were you, i would wrie up articles for all of them and PM them to me. ill put them on the front page

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Oh sorry, didn't notice the double post

But that's cool, I'll start with Snake and Ike



PS: I hope I'm not spamming with posts or something, if I am please tell me. I'll stop with the over-posten then...

you can post am nuch as u want but try not to double post

I finished my first article on Ike! I've send it too you Xyro.

lucia, i got it and im reading it. ill post it up soon.


TO ALL: ive changed my mind about ddd. i will explain later.

is it because it's kinda hard for ddd to kill you as long as you watch out for fair LOL

Remember Morph Ball bombs stop the Ice Blocks. It's in the "Tips and tricks to know as Samus Player" topic.

Nah, I think it has to do with the ledge stalling he is talking about. But well spaced fairs screw him over too. A lot of people expect easy grabs, but retreating with a fair makes that impossible. But being offstage at all times also makes that impossible, and it is much easier to stay offstage than it is to constantly watch out for grabs and space properly, so its all good.

RaigothDagon said:

Nah, I think it has to do with the ledge stalling he is talking about. But well spaced fairs screw him over too. A lot of people expect easy grabs, but retreating with a fair makes that impossible. But being offstage at all times also makes that impossible, and it is much easier to stay offstage than it is to constantly watch out for grabs and space properly, so its all good.

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the new stalling strats ive uncovered make ddd 50-50 with samus. ill explain later.

Xyro77 said:

the new stalling strats ive uncovered make ddd 50-50 with samus. ill explain later.

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If that was true, I'd probably cry with joy, I can't wait for the explanation ;o

KillerJawz said:

If that was true, I'd probably cry with joy, I can't wait for the explanation ;o

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Same xD

Even though I personally don't need it, I've beaten good DDD players with samus without stalling or anything like that... But I am interested in what makes the MU 50:50 then

DelxDoom said:

is it because it's kinda hard for ddd to kill you as long as you watch out for fair LOL

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this was supposed to say bair

o.o

Smash G 0 D said:

Rofl.

/sigh. Samus freshmen.

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Huh? What is that supposed to mean?

1Zero99Lucia5 said:

Huh? What is that supposed to mean?

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It's cause you said those things about the D3 MU (play a decent D3 and you'll see why your data is far from correct).

KillerJawz said:

It's cause you said those things about the D3 MU (play a decent D3 and you'll see why your data is far from correct).

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that doesnt mean he's a samus noob that only means that he plays against d3 noobz...makes sence no?

Mr9 said:

that doesnt mean he's a samus noob that only means that he plays against d3 noobz...makes sence no?

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He's going off his own lack of matchup experience though, that therefore, makes him a "newbie", you could say.

No it doesnt make it sence <3

KillerJawz said:

He's going off his own lack of matchup experience though, that therefore, makes him a "newbie", you could say.

No it doesnt make it sence <3

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that doesnt make as much sense as you think.

Mr9 said:

that doesnt make as much sense as you think.

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IM SO CONFUSED

lol guys, no offense but can we just drop it. LOLOLOLOLOL

Some one wanna write up an article for chars that are empty on the front page. And who ever sent me the IKE article, please send it again.

Xyro77 said:

lol guys, no offense but can we just drop it. LOLOLOLOLOL

Some one wanna write up an article for chars that are empty on the front page. And who ever sent me the IKE article, please send it again.

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Drop what? :3

I'll copy the DK write up I did and resend it to you. I can also safely say that I can contribute to the Bowser and Wolf MUs now.

Dk and wolf and bowser? Very cool. Write them up in the format on the front page and send them to me and ill post them up for you.

Xyro77 said:

Dk and wolf and bowser? Very cool. Write them up in the format on the front page and send them to me and ill post them up for you.

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I'll also state the players I faced if that helps I guess, DK one was written about a month ago, its in this thread right now, it just got overlooked.

I honestly dont remember it being there so ye ai must have over looked it. if there is anything you wanna add to it, please do. I would like it to be as detailed as possible.

Xyro77 said:

I honestly dont remember it being there so ye ai must have over looked it. if there is anything you wanna add to it, please do. I would like it to be as detailed as possible.

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Well I havn't played any other DKs since back then so I'll give it a once over then send it.

Okay, the Bowser writeup.

Player(s) who I fought to prove my experience in this matchup: IxisNaugus


Matchup Ratio: Samus beats Bowser 60-40

How does Samus win?

Okay, I'll start off by saying Zair > Bowser. I cannot stress this point enough. Bowser has NO answer to this move, it goes through his fire breath AND hits him, Bowser can't shield it that well AND because of bowser's weight, he easily gets combo'd with zair to grab or zair to fsmash/dtilt. Bowser is NEARLY hit by a full hopped zair, when your coming down from the jump, zair and it will hit him, unless he shields it. Zair is also long enough so we OUTRANGE all of his attacks, including flame breath.

Super Missle > Utilt > Zair is actually a VERY nice combo, and because of bowser's below average aerial game, he can't exactly do much to us, so a uair in place of zair can work, but zair is a safety net. Missles wrack up damage and wear down his enormous shield to the point where ftilt can shield poke. HOWEVER, do note that our missles have terrible priority and Bowser can get past them with ease (This is why I say this MU is 60-40, if they had higher priority where they would perhaps knockback Bowser in the middle of an attack, then I would have given it 65-35) and punish you accordingly, space yourself well when spamming missles.

UpB OoS works wonders in this MU, you punish the very large majority of his moves, and it's harder for Bowser to DI out of the move because of his weight, so this is a pretty safe bet if your feeling under pressure. HOWEVER, you MUST take note of this, after some vigorous testing, I have discovered that Bowser's dtilt is SAFE on shield, so upbing out of it will do NOTHING to help you. We can UpB OoS his fair and if Bowser's knuckle hits our shield with his ftilt, he will not be sucked into the UpB, but the rest of the move WILL get Bowser sucked in. Bowser has his UpB for pressure, we have our own, do not allow the Bowser to take advantage. Now, I will expand on the issue of his weight class. Bowser, being the very heavy character that he is, will always gain pros and cons from this, the main pro being the fact he can live until stupidly enormous percentages, and the main con is the fact he cannot DI out of moves aswell as other characters, if at all. Now this is where we can seriously tear Bowser up. Bowser has a massive shield which can be EASILY shield poked, so your best bet is to wear it down with a couple fast falled uairs, missles and zair, then poke him to death with uairs and fairs, these will nearly always do maximum damage since he has trouble getting out of them, however, usmash doesn't work aswell here, he can DI out of it at freaking 10%!!!!!, so don't use this move unless your sure he won't be able to punish you. Bowser being heavy, is also very effected by our "frame" traps (ff'ed uair to smash, upb etc etc) so use this to your advantage, Bowser will not be punishing you after an UpB even if he does DI out of it because his air speed is actually pretty terrible, so you can retreat to the ledge and avoid a fair/klaw.

What does Samus need to look out for?

Okay, Bowser is the heaviest character in the game. You WILL NOT KO BOWSER UNTIL 160%+. He can momentum cancel pretty well and get safetly back down with a Bowser Bomb (Down B) to the ledge DO NOT try to take the ledge unless your SURE that you can make it, besides, a good Bowser won't do this unless your far from the ledge. Bowser's ftilt outranges everything we have except zair, it comes out and ends pretty quickly for Bowser and it can KO, but don't worry about that to much unless your at the edge with like 150%+. Bowser's Flame Breath beats out missles and bombs, but the ending lag is punishable, so a nice zair to the face will make Bowser close his mouth and keep it shut for a very long time .

Bowser's Jab Cancel

Bowser, like many other characters, although has a pretty slow jab (frame 6), can actually cancel into other moves and grabs, and is basically Bowser's bread and butter to his ground game. When a Bowser comes face to face with a Samus, he will generally go for a CG to start things off, this can be done UNTIL THE END OF THE STAGE, they can also grab release and side B us for a whopping amount of damage, this can be mixed in with a variety of other jabs and trust me, things can get VERY nasty. They can also ground release to fortress and more jabs, so please look out for this. However, when a Bowser does a Jab cancel and go for another move, we have a 20 FRAME ADVANTAGE OVER BOWSER, SO USE A MOVE TO IMMEDIATLY GET OUT OF THIS ASAP (UpB comes to mind here).

Klaw

Now. Bowser's signature move which deserves its own ****ing paragraph. Flying Slam (Side B). Okay, let me just start by saying DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE RANGE ON THIS MOVE. It's grab range is so disjointed its scary. Seriously I was like a dtilt away from Bowser and STILL got grabbed. This move can be directed (not completly controlled) by the person with the lower percentage, but it does 18%!!!!. He can use the move to Bowserside you (take you off stage with the move), this can be a real pain since it can mean a stock gone at 0%. Bowser is also one of the few characters who have a infinite jump. He can use the move CONSTANTLY to give him a wall of approaches, forcing Samus to spam or retreat. This move can also KO at respectable %s. Bowser will gain grab armour frames DURING the time he grabs you, he will get none if it misses. Bowser's will space this move accordingly to make sure that missed grabs are unpunishable, so don't think just because Bowser has missed that you can punish, try to keep a zairs distance away from him whilst he is jumping around like this. This move is absolutly monstrous on BF, he can do so many klaws from the platforms and set up alot of chances for utilt/usmash kills, so seriously, stay at a nice lengthly distance when the klaw comes into play. This move is like a flying slam of sorts, Bowser will grab you, flip into the air and slam you down with mighty force, this move HOWEVER, is interuptable, and please for god sake remember this. If your one a stage where projectiles or stage events which cause knockback are in play, get ready to have a field day. On Halberd for example, on the ship, when the Claw (not Klaw) comes out from the stage, it can go for either one of you, during this time period, if Bowser happens to go for the grab, if the claw hits you during the time you have been taken into the air, the move will be STOPPED, and you will recieve no damage excluding the claw's damage.

Fortress - UpB

Bowser's UpB OoS CLANKS WITH OUR OWN UPB. Kay now that I've said that, his UpB OoS is ****. Seriously you will NOT be landing many melee attacks due to this, it sends you directly upwards, Bowser can attempt to keep you airborne with utilts or bait your landing and punish you with an fair/ftilt, do not attack him directly with melee attacks. His UpB can also KO, not very well, but can still do it, DON'T get reckless because Bowser will not let melee attacks from Samus go unpunished.

Punishment

When Bowser gets past our spam (Powershielding works WONDERS in this MU for him) he can PUNISH us hard. Bowser does not let Samus do damage in this range, it's BOWSER'S area. UpB OoS ASAP ours comes out slightly faster but they will ALWAYS clank, so eventually we MIGHT be able to get away with good spacing. His fair can be a very surprising KO move and is actually slightly disjointed, so the range of this move will catch you by surprise if you think it's restricted to the klaw alone. It comes out quickly and is BY FAR Bowser's best aerial attack, his other aerials are (no offense Bowser mains) pure trash. I mean seriously. Ganon has better aerials then this guy, however, they do have their uses. Uair from a Bowser, although it comes out extremely slow and has a lot of ending lag, will KO you pretty quickly if your not careful. Bair is a STRANGE edgeguarding tool for Bowser, partically because it is DISJOINTED. The hitbox comes out further then his shell AND it spreads up to his HEAD, a nicely timed airdodge can deal with this, DON'T approach his head straight away though as this is the SECOND hidden hitbox to this move which most people will not ever expect until your KO'ed rapidly. Dtilt is a another strange move from Bowser, not just because it's slightly disjointed, but because of the fact it has multiple, and two hitboxes, which are both of the same power. Although both hitboxes dont come out very quickly, it's quite powerful and you probably won't expect it, so it will kill you far below your usual death % if you underestimate the range of this move. Utilt can juggle us extremely well, but COULD punish an airdodge (this will more then likely never happen though) or a spotdodge (except this!). When Bowser lifts his head up, and you have begun your spotdodge, your in for a nasty surprise, since this move acts like a semi-circle in the sence that it starts at the left, the claw extends and comes down on you (provided his back IS FACING YOU). This move is a superb KO move on Samus due to her terrible vertical momentum cancel, so be sure to look out for this. It is a real killer, and will catch you off guard if your not careful, remember the hitbox goes AROUND, so DIing away from the moving claw will only get you killed (it also comes out on frame 8 if your interested).

Now, onto the gimping situation:

Bowser CAN BE easy to spike, that is, if you can hit him at the right angle, because in most cases Bowser will head to a position where he can't be punished like the ledge, and do a few Up B planks (bombs are good here too), but this is just one of MANY situations Bowser can create when he is off the ledge. Bowser's side B is a VERY interesting move, in the sence that as I mentioned, get's grab armour frames while he is GRABBING you, NOT IF IT MISSES. Bowser's can absorb the damage from dair, and grab you to force you onto the ledge or, if they are the higher percentage, gamble for off stage, remember, WE HAVE SOME CONTROL OVER THIS MOVE. So when you feel theres somewhere that you'd like to take Bowser during this move, this is your chance. Bowser can also Bowser Bomb down to the ledge where he will regain his invincibility frames from the ledge, and keep him safe for a little while, but remember this VERY carefully, Bowser Bomb does not hit until a whopping frame 32!!! this gives us more then enough time to plan our next move, or go for the ledge, depending on your current position when Bowser is doing this. Bowser Bomb is however, a decent kill move, and will probably finish you around the 120+ mark, so look out for it. When Bowser occupys the ledge, attempt to go below him this is his blind spot, and Bowser has no form of spike/meteor, so you don't have to worry about getting gimped.

When Bowser is offstage, you don't always need to follow him off. His fortress, while the frames of the move are still active, will ALWAYS get through our HOMING missles (not zair, super missles or a medium charged CS, these will hurt him, also do note, HE GETS NO INVINCIBILITY FROM HIS AERIAL UPB). A flury of bombs, missles and zair are more then enough to force Bowser to approach you once again from the ledge, since Bowser will not want us racking up damage so rapidly.

Bowser's Blind Spot

Bowser, like MANY other characters in this game, have a BLIND SPOT, this basically means any assaults from this area will be VERY difficult for Bowser to get around, or where his options to get away are SEVERLY limited. Bowser has a TERRIBLE airdodge so for him to get away from this situation will not be easy. Bowser's blind spot is UNDERNEATH him. His dair has far to much lag on the end of it and can be punished EXTREMELY easily. Bowser's Bowser Bomb can be easily punished aswell due to it's abnormally large ending lag, so Bowser can't really do anything here, so getting Bowser INTO THE AIR. Is vital. An aerial Bowser, is like a sitting duck waiting to be roasted, he CAN NOT even attempt to rival us in the air, since his only real aerial, which is his fair, hits on frame 8, our own fair hits on frame 7, but you need not worry about his fair, since you are below him.

Now, Samus has some options now that Bowser is directly above you, you can either:

*UpB
*Uair
*Utilt

These are your safest options, and are BY FAR your best. Bowser's airdodge gives him invincibility on frames 4 to 31 (lasts 49!! frames, that is LONG), so our best bet, is to wait for the frames to wear off, then go for the chains. I find uair does an EXCEPTIONAL job of taking out Bowser in the air, especially fast falled, in which case we can use a nice lovely UpB to rack up EVEN MORE damage, so be sure to experiment in this situation.

Good stages for Samus: Battlefield, Final Destination, Lylat Cruise.

Battlefield: Now this is VERY debatable, because you both do extremely well on this stage. Samus, when on this particular stage, can QUICKLY adapt to Bowser's playstyle. Klaw, utilt and ftilt will all become pretty much non threats when you have your platform control and ledge control. However, Bowser can do the exact same to you. His incredible size can allow him to hit you above the platforms, and ruin your game completely, it's really a battle for the platforms, but we have the ultimate ledge control over Bowser, so seriously use this to your advantage. Nair him when he's above you on a platform for a free push off > Jab lock setup. Uair and UpB obviously, as any Samus player knows, will destroy Bowser on this stage, but he also has the massive range on his fortress and utilt to make life a living hell for us on this stage.

Final Destination: I don't think I really need to explain this one. Spam > Bowser. We perform FAR better on this stage against Bowser then against other characters. We can wall jump from under FD's lip for low missles, low charge shot and dair set ups. Bowser is EASILY gimped here. However, look out for Bowser's powershield on the missles, he can get through the spam easily until we throw out a nice zair, which has a very high chance of getting through and shield poking him. Space your missles and zair correctly and this should be a bit easier for you to manage. Ledge tricks are always nice here, but do be aware that dtilt and flame breath can cripple us if you don't time your recovery/ledge hopped aerials correctly.

Stages to ban:

Yoshi's Island: If you ever get taken to Yoshi's Island, you better start crying right now. Let alone the fact this stage is TERRIBLE for Samus, it's a freaking god send for Bowser. He has a block on our spam because of the shy guys. The slanted ledges prevent our missles from homing in on him while he hangs on the edge, so gimping him is MUCH harder to do, especially since that **** ghost is able to save people.

Castle Siege: On the first part of the stage, it's free klaws for Bowser, he can utilize them so that we get completely shut down on our camping, and it's incredibly small aswell, so the boundaries for death are alot smaller, beware that Bowser can kill you BELOW 100% here, it barely makes any difference for us however x.x. When the stage goes to a transition (the stage will shake) you can quickly run off into the air and you will be saved by a wall of sand that lasts for a few seconds, we then come to the second stage. This stage is HUGE in comparison to the first, but the statues that sit in the centre of the stage stop of missles and nerf our zair. Bowser can easily destroy us on this section, so look out. The stage transitions again to the final part of the stage, in this part, it's like an FD that tilts, this already messes up our ledge game, but we do have an easier time onstage then the other parts.

hey guys i would like it if we talked about the Zamus match up next.

Mr9 said:

hey guys i would like it if we talked about the Zamus match up next.

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Is there any specific things you'd like us to highlight? I know the matchup fairly well since my doubles partner was a Zamus and I two stocked him very recently with the MU experience I had gathered previously.

updating ike/dk/bowser tonight.

KillerJawz said:

Is there any specific things you'd like us to highlight? I know the matchup fairly well since my doubles partner was a Zamus and I two stocked him very recently with the MU experience I had gathered previously.

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i want to know who has the advantage, because i recently started playing against a Zamus and at first he was winning but now that i have learned how she works i have been winning, and i two stock him from time to time.

Mr9 said:

i want to know who has the advantage, because i recently started playing against a Zamus and at first he was winning but now that i have learned how she works i have been winning, and i two stock him from time to time.

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Well both characters have tools that completely wreck the other, Samus outranges Zamus' Side B with zair, getting rid of her main spacing tool, but due to juggles, aerials and her ground game in general the matchup is SLIGHTLY in Zamus' favour, I'd say 55-45 maybe 60-40 if the Samus doesnt space well.

KillerJawz said:

Well both characters have tools that completely wreck the other, Samus outranges Zamus' Side B with zair, getting rid of her main spacing tool, but due to juggles, aerials and her ground game in general the matchup is SLIGHTLY in Zamus' favour, I'd say 55-45 maybe 60-40 if the Samus doesnt space well.

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hmmmm well thanks KJ i'll keep that in mind

Mr9 said:

hmmmm well thanks KJ i'll keep that in mind

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It's no problem. If theres anything more specific you want to know feel free to ask <3

alrighty than

alright guys how do i beat a GW? and what is the ratio

I don't know the match-up ratio, but I don't really care about it. When you're fighting Mr. Game & Watch, you want to space yourself a lot. Use short hop z-airs often, and if you have your Charge Shot charged up, just start spamming Homing Missiles, because that's one thing Mr. Game & Watch cannot absorb. If Mr. Game & Watch grabs you, he'll likely throw you down and then either do an f-smash or try to tech chase you and use an u-smash. What you want to do is know how to tech. That is, when you're thrown down, you'll be able to press L or R and get yourself back on your feet, rather than hitting the ground. When you tech, Samus will use her left arm to recover faster, and you can go either left or right. If you play Melee or even the original SSB, you might pick up teching easier.

When you are in the air, Mr. Game & Watch will try to use his u-air on you to keep you in the air. Show him that you're in control by using your Bombs to slow down your fall even further, and keep your second jump if you have it. Also, b-air is one of Mr. Game & Watch's favorite attacks. Be sure to shield it thoroughly. It does about six hits, but if it's a short hop, it'll probably do four or five hits. Keep count of how many hits Mr. Game & Watch's b-air does, and then space yourself to land a hit. It doesn't matter what you hit Mr. Game & Watch with. Oh, and be sure to look out for Mr. Game & Watch's d-air. It's an attack we all know that is coming, but for some reason we get hit by it. I hope this advice will help.

alright thanks i'll let you know if this helps out at all.

I see you guys already worked on the Bowser match-up. Man, I had great information about him in the past. I'd go with 65-35, Samus' favor. I wish I had my information still.