-dMT-
Smash Lord
but..but......but...
-
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Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
zeldspazz
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,432
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15KEOniDNNc
In case you guys didnt see this. I noticed while lurking that you figured learning the Buffered DACUS wasnt needed for you since you can DACUS normally, but perhaps this video will intriuge you?
I dont know if you can do that with a regular DACUS though, Im pretty sure you cant.
In case you guys didnt see this. I noticed while lurking that you figured learning the Buffered DACUS wasnt needed for you since you can DACUS normally, but perhaps this video will intriuge you?
I dont know if you can do that with a regular DACUS though, Im pretty sure you cant.
-dMT-
Smash Lord
OK those look awesome.
How about the GR DACUS. Does this buffer make it easier. Also is this being performed the same way diddys are doing it.. with double cstick up?
lol thanks, just got it before you mentioned it and was just about to say how im going to need to build muscle memory for this, but didnt realise that it is just basically spotdodge>DACUS but replacing up+A with upC.
its very nice for aerials but it kinda goes against the whole autocancel gameplay, im going to play around with it a bit more
its very nice for aerials but it kinda goes against the whole autocancel gameplay, im going to play around with it a bit more
Tristan_win
Not dead.
The last 4 post in the Sheik/Zelda backroom. Pay special attention to the date.
-
12-28-2009 07:09 PM
Sonic The Hedgedawg
the deadness of this group is a testament to how UP Zelda is. -
09-28-2009 01:16 PM
Sonic The Hedgedawg
EEP... there are still people here! -
09-11-2009 05:52 PM
KayLo!
Boo. -
07-16-2009 04:40 AM
-Mars-
Well Armada placed 17th at genesis..........
edit: on a side note it looks they made the sheik forum smaller again. I remember the days when we had two whole pages.... Not that we ever needed that but still.
-dMT-
Smash Lord
Wow...it really is....much smaller..
Cutoff date is a month by default. Set it to "From the beginning" to see all the threads ever.
I don't think they make it smaller. I think what happens is they put up recent threads (like up to a month ago?) up only and since we don't make any new threads or post in the old ones it will seem like that. It hasn't been this bad before almost completely because of saviors. lol You can change the settings I believe to show you more than just threads from the past month.
ninja'd >.<
ninja'd >.<
zeldspazz
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,432
Actually Im pretty sure you can buffer it from pretty much anything, it's just easier with spotdodge, correct me if Im wrong though.
Spotdodge is the easiest bufferable animation to induce, but yeah, it works from anything you can buffer from.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
So I just got back from a tourney.
I've been using Sheik a little bit more every tournament. It's hard transitioning from MK/Oli, lol.
7th of like 40ish using Sheik/MK/Various.
I'll have a couple videos, though they're pretty embarrassing cuz I messed up my boost smashes way too much and apparently I can't tilt lock lol.
A trip cost me a set, too. I wish I could boost smash out of a walk.
Also. What are y'all's opinions on the Sheik vs. D3 matchup? Is it better to go Zelda? (Assuming they know the matchup and you're competent with Zelda)
I've been using Sheik a little bit more every tournament. It's hard transitioning from MK/Oli, lol.
7th of like 40ish using Sheik/MK/Various.
I'll have a couple videos, though they're pretty embarrassing cuz I messed up my boost smashes way too much and apparently I can't tilt lock lol.
A trip cost me a set, too. I wish I could boost smash out of a walk.
Also. What are y'all's opinions on the Sheik vs. D3 matchup? Is it better to go Zelda? (Assuming they know the matchup and you're competent with Zelda)
Tristan_win
Not dead.
I'll go into detail on about how far I've gone in analyzing the match up.
I think Sheik vs De3 is most likely 55/45 in De3 favor but it's possible it could be 60/40. With Zelda maybe even to 55/45 Sheik/Zelda favor, as far as just using Zelda I've had de3 mains tell me they think sheik does better by herself then Zelda. The most interesting thing about the match up between Sheik vs De3 is that de3 has to approach since Sheik can out camp him and get rewarded if de3 tries to camp back.
When de3 use his minions on the ground when he first pull them out they can act as a meat shield but when thrown they arch high enough to allow needles to fly under them and hit de3 while he is still in cool down. Generally though unless you throwing needle storms randomly from far range you wont be able to get them in there at that precises time so your need to hover between mid-far range. With that said though camping far away from de3 has it's benefits, on de3 minions you can very easily control your decay. In the low percents Dtilt can actually combo so with decay it can string/combo into the mid percents. Once de3 get's in the higher percents though start using ftilt in hopes you can get that ftilt into usmash combo on that outrageously large target. Ftilt also does a pretty good job of hitting his minions away to allow you to needle storm de3, if he tries to throw another minion immediately after the first then I'm pretty sure are needle storm will hit.
Since De3 can't out camp Sheik he will have to approach, his Ftilt, grab, and bair are all a challenge to get around. Ftilt I've only recently been introduce to so I don't know much about it but it's what makes me currently think the match up might be 60/40. Because of d3 outstanding grab range Sheik has to remain mostly in mid range which is too close for needle storms so you have to respace farther away, safely attack de3 shield or mind game him in some way(see dmt videos). Ftilt though strikes well into that mid range comfort zone and worst yet Ftilt can also hit aerial targets. De3 ftilt is just monstrous to what it does to sheik comfort zone, but I like to think that mix ups between dash dancing, dash attacks, and well spaced ftilts mix with good reads to shield de3 ftilt it might be able to over come his Ftilt and return the match to it's 55/45 ratio.
A De3 grab, all I can say about this is that you want to leave it's range as soon as you can and punish him when he misses. Sheiks GTFO me moves against de3 standing grab are First hit of Dsmash, Strong Nair (full hop), and sometimes Strong bair(full hop). Pretty much all of those moves will push de3 out of grab range before he can shield grab. Well spaced Ftilts, Bairs, realistically retreating fairs, and very well spaced Dtilt can be safe on shield but only if you spaced well.
De3 Bair beat all of Sheik aerials but maybe fair if timed like perfectly, however the first hit of Utilt can beat de3 bair once it weaken I also think it can even when full strength but I'm not 100% sure, I've had the utilt lose and other times win. Something of interest I've found is that if behind de3 and he's shielding Dtilt can't be punished by bair because Sheik is so low to the ground.
...Yup, everything else is pretty much not worth noting besides I guess de3 can't chain grab sheik but everyone knew that.
edit: Oh I've notice that jab jab-Dtilt/Ftilt/Grab strings seem to work well on de3 because his air options are very slow.
I think Sheik vs De3 is most likely 55/45 in De3 favor but it's possible it could be 60/40. With Zelda maybe even to 55/45 Sheik/Zelda favor, as far as just using Zelda I've had de3 mains tell me they think sheik does better by herself then Zelda. The most interesting thing about the match up between Sheik vs De3 is that de3 has to approach since Sheik can out camp him and get rewarded if de3 tries to camp back.
When de3 use his minions on the ground when he first pull them out they can act as a meat shield but when thrown they arch high enough to allow needles to fly under them and hit de3 while he is still in cool down. Generally though unless you throwing needle storms randomly from far range you wont be able to get them in there at that precises time so your need to hover between mid-far range. With that said though camping far away from de3 has it's benefits, on de3 minions you can very easily control your decay. In the low percents Dtilt can actually combo so with decay it can string/combo into the mid percents. Once de3 get's in the higher percents though start using ftilt in hopes you can get that ftilt into usmash combo on that outrageously large target. Ftilt also does a pretty good job of hitting his minions away to allow you to needle storm de3, if he tries to throw another minion immediately after the first then I'm pretty sure are needle storm will hit.
Since De3 can't out camp Sheik he will have to approach, his Ftilt, grab, and bair are all a challenge to get around. Ftilt I've only recently been introduce to so I don't know much about it but it's what makes me currently think the match up might be 60/40. Because of d3 outstanding grab range Sheik has to remain mostly in mid range which is too close for needle storms so you have to respace farther away, safely attack de3 shield or mind game him in some way(see dmt videos). Ftilt though strikes well into that mid range comfort zone and worst yet Ftilt can also hit aerial targets. De3 ftilt is just monstrous to what it does to sheik comfort zone, but I like to think that mix ups between dash dancing, dash attacks, and well spaced ftilts mix with good reads to shield de3 ftilt it might be able to over come his Ftilt and return the match to it's 55/45 ratio.
A De3 grab, all I can say about this is that you want to leave it's range as soon as you can and punish him when he misses. Sheiks GTFO me moves against de3 standing grab are First hit of Dsmash, Strong Nair (full hop), and sometimes Strong bair(full hop). Pretty much all of those moves will push de3 out of grab range before he can shield grab. Well spaced Ftilts, Bairs, realistically retreating fairs, and very well spaced Dtilt can be safe on shield but only if you spaced well.
De3 Bair beat all of Sheik aerials but maybe fair if timed like perfectly, however the first hit of Utilt can beat de3 bair once it weaken I also think it can even when full strength but I'm not 100% sure, I've had the utilt lose and other times win. Something of interest I've found is that if behind de3 and he's shielding Dtilt can't be punished by bair because Sheik is so low to the ground.
...Yup, everything else is pretty much not worth noting besides I guess de3 can't chain grab sheik but everyone knew that.
edit: Oh I've notice that jab jab-Dtilt/Ftilt/Grab strings seem to work well on de3 because his air options are very slow.
I am such a mean person to KenniSpam, hahaha
#HBC | Red Ryu
Red Fox Warrior
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2008
- Messages
- 27,486
- Location
- Milwaukee, Wisconsin
- NNID
- RedRyu_Smash
- 3DS FC
- 0344-9312-3352
He wants to Sheik ditto you so badly, yet you hid your identity and didn't even use Sheik against him when you played.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Dan, were you referring to Alby, Elev8, or me? I couldn't tell.
EDIT: I missed a part.
And stop using dtilt x_x
Tristan_win
Not dead.
If someone gets 12-18% happening to them twice or more within a minute only to deal maybe 10% on your opponent anyone with half a brain would approach. Sure you don’t necessary have to approach or you will immediately die but if de3 gets near the 100’s with Sheik having all her moves still fresh she become threatening.
The reason why I have this part so focus is because for over a year now I’ve been claiming that sheik can camp de3 and never put into detail just how exactly this is done, this is a body paragraph focus on camping so that’s why. Anyways its true de3 dee and doo can’t do jack, I’ll agree with you on that.
Now I’m assuming you’re talking about the dtilt on the back of de3 shield well all I have to say about that is you try to do a backward jump OoS to nair. It’s not simple and honestly I doubt if it would even hit a crouching sheik in time especially because it’s actually slower then bair. Moving on to sheik ftilt being punishable by a de3 dair, I’m just going to flash a little frame data at you okay?
Sheik Ftilt Frame data
Start up: 4
Hit: 5
Hit stun: 3
Shield stun: 6
Frames of disadvantage: 12
Now let’s assume de3 jump is as good as sheik (which it’s not. By the way the de3 forums should figure out his jump already.)
Jump 5 frames
Dedede dair 8 frames
5+8= 13 frames
Not even thinking about the distance de3 would have to travel in the air to reach Sheik and pretending that the de3 is going to frame perfect the Sheik would still at the end of the day have 1 frame of advantage which is all you need to shield.
Dtilt OoS is overshadow by grab, everything I tested Dtilt cannot reach farther then grab.
Dair is a great OoS option when available but it doesn’t play big enough part of this match up to really mention it. I mean I guess I could have said something about how you can smash DI out but once again it’s not something to really worry about.
Fair is a joke OoS, who do you, think Sheik is, Captain Falcon?
Are you referring to de3 inhale? That move is only good as a mix up, and it isn’t hard to counter if you expect it. Using inhale as a mix up is about as effective as sheik using a ground vanish to anti air the back air. The rest of this part I’m just dumbfounded, how did you go from approaching to something about tech chasing, or then about Dtilt? I can't understand what you are talking about.
I’m not the most literate person but come on now.
I don’t think it’s that stupid, de3 bair is pretty safe on shield against sheik and he can even land outside of sheik grab but still be within his own. That’s why I can understand de3 using the bair on sheik in hope she shields. Luckily Uair DOES beat it. De3 can only safely approach on the ground or mix up with bairs.
Are you a troll?
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Nah, I wasn't trolling. I was actually serious. But I can show you better than I can tell you, really.
Do you do wifi?
Do you do wifi?
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
No one in particular.
I seemed to do better with my inexperienced Zelda though- as in like 0 experience. Can't remember if it was you or Alby but I picked Zelda at the character select screen on accident xD and managed to take the first stock before switching back to Sheik. I dunno. It left me thinking.
Killing is a huge pain with Sheik against D3 when all you have to do to avoid her kill moves are shield a bunch and roll away/b-air when you're not sure about a situation. (yes, I'm exaggerating) Get grabbed cuz you're shield happy? Doesn't matter too much. Her throws won't do a lot of damage and don't really set up for followups very well at high percents- at least against D3
It's like... ok, I can punish a lot of your stuff... with 7% damage... but I can't punish with kill moves unless I boost smash, which I'm not extremely comfortable with yet. I can hit you with 10 different dash attacks but all D3 has to do is get a grab, throw me offstage, get a read and maybe dtilt me back off and I'm pretty much dead.
Tristan, thanks for the writeup. I'll think about that stuff.
edit: Serin, do you search "D3*"? lol
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Nah, I lurked and found this.
EDIT: It was Alby prolly.
EDIT: It was Alby prolly.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
going back to lurking moar o_o
Tristan_win
Not dead.
I wouldn't go as far as to say De3 beat sheik, I think it's pretty even just thing are in de3 favor... Currently.
~throws a pokaball at voyeur~
STAY! your not fixing the problem by lurking, your causing it.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Why do people shrug off my opinions? Fair OoS is a really great option against people who like to FH an aerial <_<
And D3 does beat Sheik x_x
And D3 does beat Sheik x_x
Tristan_win
Not dead.
People aren't shrugging off your options but de3's. Unless a aerial is really unsafe on shield or is spaced really really badly then I doubt you can punish with a de3 fair. This is even more true against someone like sheik who has so little cool down on all of her moves.
Also if you think that de3 just flat out beat sheik then clearly you haven't fought a good Sheik yet. Now that I'm back in ny and more or less out of mourning(funnels suck by the way) if you want we can play, it's wifi so I wont be able to do the reactive play style that I so love of sheik but I can most likely prove a little of my argument.
Get at me on aim.
Serin have you seen Sheik's frame data? It would probably be better for you to sit in your shield and attemp to grab instead of trying unsuccessfully to hit me with a fair OoS. I can't even see many instances where I would FH aerials against D3 anyways.
SH FF bairs and fairs straight into jabs are the two primary aerials i'll ever hit DDD's shield with.
SH FF bairs and fairs straight into jabs are the two primary aerials i'll ever hit DDD's shield with.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Define a "good" Sheik.
As in technical and whatnot, or one that just places?
As in technical and whatnot, or one that just places?
iLight
Smash Lord
technical ability:
decaye'd f-tilt to u-smash
dacus
b-reverse needle cancels
FFautocancels
excessive p-shielding
chain camping
smash di
complicated cross ups
good spacing/thinking:
p-shielding
shield dashing
move choice
choosing proper spacing for each character
choosing the right combo for each character
character specific ledge guards
decaye'd f-tilt to u-smash
dacus
b-reverse needle cancels
FFautocancels
excessive p-shielding
chain camping
smash di
complicated cross ups
good spacing/thinking:
p-shielding
shield dashing
move choice
choosing proper spacing for each character
choosing the right combo for each character
character specific ledge guards
One that isn't ******** enough to let you hit them with a fair OoS.
Ahaha, fair oos. What's that a viable option against? Sheik dropping into you with a dair?
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Spoofs are fun.
SPR like to do the following
<3: "oh ****, power ranking is due, the other gamer's are complaining."
Tristan: I can't keep grabbing their attention with my charts, eventually, they're going to forget about them. I mean no one use them anyways. We love guessing too much, and who doesn't like seeing someone beat the odds?
Ankoku: We both have names that have "A" in them.
<3: Okay okay, let's just, put the usual. Just put all the Sheik's who are not 1st and 2nd in a hat, and pick them out one by one to determine placement.
Chok: Snake is the best in the game.
Light: Doesn't matter I am still taking your money anyway.
yeeeeeeeepeh!
iLight
Smash Lord
LOL spot on
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
LOL that was amazing.
Nice. lol
clowsui
Smash Legend
DMG i watched you make that pasta omelette on light's channel
that **** looks amazing.
also lmao @ the sheik PR discussion
that **** looks amazing.
also lmao @ the sheik PR discussion
Random silly video clip. Panda trying his hardest to somehow get a sticky on me through the chain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQMLcFJiCiM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQMLcFJiCiM