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Snake vs. Metaknight
- Thread starter Underload
- Start date
AfroQT
Smash Master
My thoughts on the matchup change alot. I think its even...but i could honestly settle for like..55/45. I think snake has much much much more to learn though.
differentuggs
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2010
- Messages
- 5
christian louboutin
skibbity wop
skibbity wop
differentuggs
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2010
- Messages
- 5
flippity flop
Optionwise it looks even but in ability for the human mind to execute commands it's not even on an equal skill level, not even close imo. Most people don't believe in set skill levels and inability to progress beyond a certain point but I do. Your reaction speed will always be the same, you just max it out when you learn to apply it. MK has too many options that you have to read individually, you have no options that blanked anything meaning you have to predict everything. By factor of random luck you will guess wrong assuming your opponent mixes it up even slightly, so the only way to punish everything MK does is to react at a speed that isn't humanly possible.
snake doesn't need to punish everything MK does, MK needs to hit snake more often in fact
MK wins 55:45 IMO, it's disadvantageous but not at all horrible
RATED
Smash Lord
I don't believe that the reaction speed is always the same. Why? for example tennis players, they practice a lot obviously, they improve their reaction time with diferent exercises and playing more and since tennis requires a great reaction speed, they are prone and exposed to improve that speed. One of my best friends plays tennis in events and things like that, and he has a pretty awesome reaction speed, so bad that he can't play that much because he has a kid to attend but he improved that reaction speed with practice and a lot of players of different sports too.
you can improve the speed your brain handles specific functions via repetition to some extent but there is a limit to that
that being said I think thinking quickly is more important than reactions mostly, most of S/A tier has a lot of stuff you're not going to be reacting to no matter how much of a freak you become...
that being said I think thinking quickly is more important than reactions mostly, most of S/A tier has a lot of stuff you're not going to be reacting to no matter how much of a freak you become...
Reaction speed has nothing to do with fingers and everything to do with mental processing speed.
Reaction speed is spontaneous and has nothing to do with practiced actions. You can practice punishing something but you can't practice how quickly your brain realizes it happens.
RATED
Smash Lord
... I know that, that's why I am saying. I didnt wrote about "physical exercises" to get better at it, but to react at the speed and different angle of launches of a ball and the patters that they other player may have, you need a great reaction speed, so that they work on it in order to be good. Everyone or almost everyone knows how to hit catch a ball in a baseball game but yet not everyone has the speed to catch one, two options u were born too good reaction speed or you worked your *** in order to have a good one. not by practicing how to catch a ball.
LOL I want to write an idea but I have no idea how to write it right now
. Not having english as a main language is kinda troubleish sometimes anyways, I respect your opinion.
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
i played horribly and sd'd but believe what you want lol
mk vs snake is bad if mk knows that to do
-Ran
Smash Master
I used to always say that Snake vs Mk was:
On the ground: 60:40 Snake
In the air: 70:30 MK
Off the stage: 90:10 MK
Previously, players were able to avoid situations where they were in the air for the majority of the match. MKs have learned how weak Snake is when he's recovering, even if you just let him touch the ground. His options, if you're right to them after he cyphers are so limited. MK's have been able to keep Snake in the air longer, which allows them to knock him off the stage easier. Now MK's are starting to use frame-traps which is making it harder to get grabs, and their on stage game has improved rapidly with air dodge buffering after aerials.
Now, as Snake mains really the main thing that we can work on for this match up to shift back to being more manageable is to work on our DI and SDI. Before one of the times I quit, I had devised a way to SDI shuttle loop so that 60% of the time, I would manage to fly towards the stage instead of to my death. I need to figure that out again. Lol.
All in all, the match up is more about the same as it was before. It was never in Snake's favor, but it was highly dependent on your opponent being able to keep you off the ground.
On the ground: 60:40 Snake
In the air: 70:30 MK
Off the stage: 90:10 MK
Previously, players were able to avoid situations where they were in the air for the majority of the match. MKs have learned how weak Snake is when he's recovering, even if you just let him touch the ground. His options, if you're right to them after he cyphers are so limited. MK's have been able to keep Snake in the air longer, which allows them to knock him off the stage easier. Now MK's are starting to use frame-traps which is making it harder to get grabs, and their on stage game has improved rapidly with air dodge buffering after aerials.
Now, as Snake mains really the main thing that we can work on for this match up to shift back to being more manageable is to work on our DI and SDI. Before one of the times I quit, I had devised a way to SDI shuttle loop so that 60% of the time, I would manage to fly towards the stage instead of to my death. I need to figure that out again. Lol.
All in all, the match up is more about the same as it was before. It was never in Snake's favor, but it was highly dependent on your opponent being able to keep you off the ground.
dont play flashy dont play stupid and blindly through out nairs or anything like that if you get one slip up mk will punish you hard. believe it or not but the way to play this matchup right is for the snake to play a boring campy dthrow then up tilt ***** it works and thats how its all summarized.
Oh dont air doge i find it better to just pick a nade and take the hit its much better than being reset in a bad spot,aqs for recovering mid-low just c4 yourself early because if you wait to long footstool will happen or just simply gimp you easy
Oh dont air doge i find it better to just pick a nade and take the hit its much better than being reset in a bad spot,aqs for recovering mid-low just c4 yourself early because if you wait to long footstool will happen or just simply gimp you easy
AfroQT
Smash Master
metaknight da bess
**Havok**
Smash Lord
New info:
When on the edge (FAR FAR edge, cornered) and on the floor simply grenade hold (or lob towards yourself) and react:
-Spot dodge or roll past the grabby MK
-Shield the Dtilting/ Dsmashing MK
- Jump the "reactive" MK or grenade grab
One thing about this matchup, you MUST come to terms that you WILL get hit. As soon as you come to the realization that there is nothing you can do to avoid getting hit near the edge, especially vs walking MK's/ reactive ones, it's not terrible. Since you expect it you'll hardly make a poor DI decision. Ftilting at the corner will just get you tornado'ed or grabbed which is annoying. So sit tight and WAIT.
If you get knocked offstage at a low percent, Jump up and cypher semi-Aways so you won't get shuttle looped. At the full height of the cypher, FAIR!!!!! You get a tiny boost that lets you have the choice between the floor or edge. I know this sounds weird but it's definitely the lesser of two evils and you won't get shuttle over and over.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've found out why this Matchup is increasingly difficult at times, every Meta plays different. Just have a set plan for every single style of MK, as a Snake player you have to know how to react to Dair camping, planking, walking MK's, aggressive MK's, grounded MK's. Recovery options are all different for every single type.
The reason I say this is because you might be beating a good MK then losing to your little brother's random MK. It's absolutely vital to formulate a plan on the fly and adjust quickly.
This matchup is NOT impossible, difficult? Yes. Sometimes it takes a game to adjust and it's ok, people have habits when trying to get out of Downthrow etc etc. It's just a matter of reading and capitalizing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dair = high risk, high reward. Although sometimes I've been able to miss the last hit and finish with a Ftilt LMAO. ALWAYS Dair at the edge, it's going to push off MK anyway, right?
Uptilt is better overall than Ftilt when MK runs at you since it's only ONE hit. If you can learn to time the ftilt correctly where only the tip of the knee hits, awesome, and if it's blocked walk away.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Upsmash is interesting... DO NOT DO IT vs a grounded MK!!!! It'll just get you grabbed or tornado'ed. Like the majority of Snake's tools, it's not an offensive option, it's a defensive option that covers space. That's it. It's not supposed to hit, if it does awesome, if it doesn't run along and cover more space. (this is relating to MK's in the air)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Downthrow is the ONLY offensive move that Snake has! If you can catch onto subtle patterns and elimination process of recovery, repeating it is AMAZING!
Let me explain (I'm sure this is obvious and to most of you Snake mains second nature, pls excuse if it's been already mentioned):
--> At a neutral position (middle of the stage-ish) downthrow is not Amazing but allows a testing of the person!
[------00------]
^ it's ok for the MK since he has options However, a buffered jab can reduce the quantity. Should the jab connect, run and regrab for another downthrow. More dmg, less space for the MK and another possible read.
--> 3/4's of the stage
[---00-------] (Snake's back facing the OTHER edge)
This is the best area to downthrow because there isn't too much space to maneuver in and Snake is standing in the best position to repeat the downthrow. MK's "way out" (out of the spacing disadvantage) is rolling behind Snake and risking another throw or ftilt or Uptilt. Since we know he wants to get away at this range, we can most likely expect a roll so tech chase.
Downthrowing from earlier gives information for future reads! Some MK's NEVER ever getup attack. It's like they forget they have it as an option. Just be %110 concentrated when making observations.
But again, erase what you know from your buddy's MK, each individual is different and will react differently.
--> At the Far edge.
[-00---------]
Usually I just turn around and wait. Since get up attack hits from away then towards you can react a getup attack. If they roll "behind" then you're already ready to regrab. If they roll away, then regrab since they're stuck in the rolling animation buuuuut...
--> at the FAR FAR edge.
[00---------]
Mk can fall and nair right away so don't try to punish with uptilt. All it is, is a free downthrow. If the mk rolled towards this area it's better to thrown him out of the stage so you can set up camp (no pun intended).
Punishing a roll towards this area--> Ftilting at this range will only get a Knee and nothing more. Dair however, is a viable option. Downthrow is merely another %10-%12. Uptilt puts him in the air, maybe a KO.
Opportunities to downthrow:
-airdodge onto the ground
-airdodge onto the ground from the edge
-glide attack
-Dtilt (PS then run in and grab)
-Deep fair (blocked)
-Platforms, HUGE and worth the risk of getting hit!
-when they run, run in also an grab
-grounded shuttle loops
I'm sure there's more, I'll add more later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the individual's that think this matchup is impossible. Oh it's possible. Be on your A game son, c'mon!
To redhalberd, I love you. No homo. lmao.
Snake is fun.
When on the edge (FAR FAR edge, cornered) and on the floor simply grenade hold (or lob towards yourself) and react:
-Spot dodge or roll past the grabby MK
-Shield the Dtilting/ Dsmashing MK
- Jump the "reactive" MK or grenade grab
One thing about this matchup, you MUST come to terms that you WILL get hit. As soon as you come to the realization that there is nothing you can do to avoid getting hit near the edge, especially vs walking MK's/ reactive ones, it's not terrible. Since you expect it you'll hardly make a poor DI decision. Ftilting at the corner will just get you tornado'ed or grabbed which is annoying. So sit tight and WAIT.
If you get knocked offstage at a low percent, Jump up and cypher semi-Aways so you won't get shuttle looped. At the full height of the cypher, FAIR!!!!! You get a tiny boost that lets you have the choice between the floor or edge. I know this sounds weird but it's definitely the lesser of two evils and you won't get shuttle over and over.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've found out why this Matchup is increasingly difficult at times, every Meta plays different. Just have a set plan for every single style of MK, as a Snake player you have to know how to react to Dair camping, planking, walking MK's, aggressive MK's, grounded MK's. Recovery options are all different for every single type.
The reason I say this is because you might be beating a good MK then losing to your little brother's random MK. It's absolutely vital to formulate a plan on the fly and adjust quickly.
This matchup is NOT impossible, difficult? Yes. Sometimes it takes a game to adjust and it's ok, people have habits when trying to get out of Downthrow etc etc. It's just a matter of reading and capitalizing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dair = high risk, high reward. Although sometimes I've been able to miss the last hit and finish with a Ftilt LMAO. ALWAYS Dair at the edge, it's going to push off MK anyway, right?
Uptilt is better overall than Ftilt when MK runs at you since it's only ONE hit. If you can learn to time the ftilt correctly where only the tip of the knee hits, awesome, and if it's blocked walk away.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Upsmash is interesting... DO NOT DO IT vs a grounded MK!!!! It'll just get you grabbed or tornado'ed. Like the majority of Snake's tools, it's not an offensive option, it's a defensive option that covers space. That's it. It's not supposed to hit, if it does awesome, if it doesn't run along and cover more space. (this is relating to MK's in the air)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Downthrow is the ONLY offensive move that Snake has! If you can catch onto subtle patterns and elimination process of recovery, repeating it is AMAZING!
Let me explain (I'm sure this is obvious and to most of you Snake mains second nature, pls excuse if it's been already mentioned):
--> At a neutral position (middle of the stage-ish) downthrow is not Amazing but allows a testing of the person!
[------00------]
^ it's ok for the MK since he has options However, a buffered jab can reduce the quantity. Should the jab connect, run and regrab for another downthrow. More dmg, less space for the MK and another possible read.
--> 3/4's of the stage
[---00-------] (Snake's back facing the OTHER edge)
This is the best area to downthrow because there isn't too much space to maneuver in and Snake is standing in the best position to repeat the downthrow. MK's "way out" (out of the spacing disadvantage) is rolling behind Snake and risking another throw or ftilt or Uptilt. Since we know he wants to get away at this range, we can most likely expect a roll so tech chase.
Downthrowing from earlier gives information for future reads! Some MK's NEVER ever getup attack. It's like they forget they have it as an option. Just be %110 concentrated when making observations.
But again, erase what you know from your buddy's MK, each individual is different and will react differently.
--> At the Far edge.
[-00---------]
Usually I just turn around and wait. Since get up attack hits from away then towards you can react a getup attack. If they roll "behind" then you're already ready to regrab. If they roll away, then regrab since they're stuck in the rolling animation buuuuut...
--> at the FAR FAR edge.
[00---------]
Mk can fall and nair right away so don't try to punish with uptilt. All it is, is a free downthrow. If the mk rolled towards this area it's better to thrown him out of the stage so you can set up camp (no pun intended).
Punishing a roll towards this area--> Ftilting at this range will only get a Knee and nothing more. Dair however, is a viable option. Downthrow is merely another %10-%12. Uptilt puts him in the air, maybe a KO.
Opportunities to downthrow:
-airdodge onto the ground
-airdodge onto the ground from the edge
-glide attack
-Dtilt (PS then run in and grab)
-Deep fair (blocked)
-Platforms, HUGE and worth the risk of getting hit!
-when they run, run in also an grab
-grounded shuttle loops
I'm sure there's more, I'll add more later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the individual's that think this matchup is impossible. Oh it's possible. Be on your A game son, c'mon!
To redhalberd, I love you. No homo. lmao.
Snake is fun.
havok's **** post is ****
however, MK's get up attack hits towards and then away, not away then towards. not sure on what frame but it's pretty hard to react to. but if you dthrow at the edge and turn around and shield, free regrab if he rolls, free ftilt/dair otherwise
however, MK's get up attack hits towards and then away, not away then towards. not sure on what frame but it's pretty hard to react to. but if you dthrow at the edge and turn around and shield, free regrab if he rolls, free ftilt/dair otherwise
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
Yeah, turn around and shield is better imo, but if he gets up you wont have the frames to punish unless you have superior reaction time. i like to dair in that situation as it will beat both getup and forward roll, and you can move offstage to avoid landing lag.
RATED
Smash Lord
its hard ? :S , I always considered MK so easy to techchase, maybe is just that I may have a good reaction time IDK. :/ I hate techchasing marth though
marth is much harder, but yeah, if you can block most characters that have a towards first get up attack on reaction while also able to react to his other options, your reaction time is probably pretty good as most are like 10-15 frames IIRC, which is about as fast as most people react to something that they expect, not counting that they have to determine what happened and act accordingly
maybe just me idk, I have **** reaction time, I just read mostly
maybe just me idk, I have **** reaction time, I just read mostly
RATED
Smash Lord
a bit off topic :
I used to rely fully on reads in that techchase, but then I started practicing to react to them in friendlies and even tourney matches, now I can react to most stuff with Dthrow, except Marth and some Snake rolls and maybe ganon( since I haven't play one in a long time)
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
Okay, I play Snake as well. Not in tourney (I've won maybe the two sets I played with him but I don't do it often), but my Snake is highly potent. I can typically defeat the MKs I fight with it . . .
except when I lose the lead and the MK decides he doesn't want to fight me anymore.
The only way to damage MK in this senerio is to take HUGE RISKS. Now, as much as we'd like to think Snake's metagame has evolved, MK's metagame has evolved A LOT. MK's get MASSIVE rewards off of single hits, and can often make reads that result in a stock, or over 100%. When I'm MK fighting Snake, I literally just BS around if I'm even slightly better than my opponent, because I know landing the right hit at the right place lets me enter an attack string in which I can often cover 4 of Snake's 5 possible options over and over until he gets gimped, or juggled. I've finally stepped up my own Snake game, and so I make it very, very difficult to hit me, and get massive rewards off reads, but it's still gay to fight a camping MK.
I think MK beats Snake 6-4 normally. That is to say, if you turn off the timer, and put two high level players of equal skill against each other, an MK player will typically beat the Snake 4 times in 10 matches. Not a bad MU really. Once the timer goes on though, things get ugly. Snake's defenses are very rewarding when he makes a read on MK's offense. However, MK has many approaches, and several of them are safe, or produce massive reward, like landing an UpB or Grab.
THE PROBLEM is when Snake loses the lead though. Even though he has a projectile, it doesn't go off for 3 seconds. Also, MK can FLY. A camping MK is virtually impossible to hit if he knows the options to cover. I was playing my sparring partner (who seconds a decent MK, as does everyone these days). At first, I would set up nades under MK, encouraging him to Dair Camp, and then side sweeping him with a Nair. This stopped working once he caught on. My grenade game is way better than before. I can fluently jump with Nades (a lot of Snakes don't do this, and I only started doing it semi-recently), stack nades (throw a nade and then throw another nade over it, so it explodes high, without cooking the second one, producing a tall explosion to hit airborne opponents), and I can do everything technical under the sun except Boost Grab and BDacus, but I haven't really tried.
I'm good at getting out of juggles, I played Duelist a lot back in the day, etc. I have the MU down, and I even rewrote it to adapt to the Summer 2010 MK style, to make my Snake highly effective. However, I absolutely feel that it's impossible to regain a lead vs. an MK trying to go to time. He has to make a mistake to get hit, and he has to make a big mistake to die. You have to take risks to hit him, and this often ends up in the lead growing huge, making a comeback impossible.
I was thinking about entering a tournament with mostly Snake, but this greatly discourages me, because I KNOW people will play gay in tournament. People know how to avoid Snake well in this region because I've taught a lot of them personally, and the MKs here are smart and talented.
ANYONE! If you have a strategy or more reliable method of how to regain a lost lead from MK without getting *****, PLEASE let me know.
except when I lose the lead and the MK decides he doesn't want to fight me anymore.
The only way to damage MK in this senerio is to take HUGE RISKS. Now, as much as we'd like to think Snake's metagame has evolved, MK's metagame has evolved A LOT. MK's get MASSIVE rewards off of single hits, and can often make reads that result in a stock, or over 100%. When I'm MK fighting Snake, I literally just BS around if I'm even slightly better than my opponent, because I know landing the right hit at the right place lets me enter an attack string in which I can often cover 4 of Snake's 5 possible options over and over until he gets gimped, or juggled. I've finally stepped up my own Snake game, and so I make it very, very difficult to hit me, and get massive rewards off reads, but it's still gay to fight a camping MK.
I think MK beats Snake 6-4 normally. That is to say, if you turn off the timer, and put two high level players of equal skill against each other, an MK player will typically beat the Snake 4 times in 10 matches. Not a bad MU really. Once the timer goes on though, things get ugly. Snake's defenses are very rewarding when he makes a read on MK's offense. However, MK has many approaches, and several of them are safe, or produce massive reward, like landing an UpB or Grab.
THE PROBLEM is when Snake loses the lead though. Even though he has a projectile, it doesn't go off for 3 seconds. Also, MK can FLY. A camping MK is virtually impossible to hit if he knows the options to cover. I was playing my sparring partner (who seconds a decent MK, as does everyone these days). At first, I would set up nades under MK, encouraging him to Dair Camp, and then side sweeping him with a Nair. This stopped working once he caught on. My grenade game is way better than before. I can fluently jump with Nades (a lot of Snakes don't do this, and I only started doing it semi-recently), stack nades (throw a nade and then throw another nade over it, so it explodes high, without cooking the second one, producing a tall explosion to hit airborne opponents), and I can do everything technical under the sun except Boost Grab and BDacus, but I haven't really tried.
I'm good at getting out of juggles, I played Duelist a lot back in the day, etc. I have the MU down, and I even rewrote it to adapt to the Summer 2010 MK style, to make my Snake highly effective. However, I absolutely feel that it's impossible to regain a lead vs. an MK trying to go to time. He has to make a mistake to get hit, and he has to make a big mistake to die. You have to take risks to hit him, and this often ends up in the lead growing huge, making a comeback impossible.
I was thinking about entering a tournament with mostly Snake, but this greatly discourages me, because I KNOW people will play gay in tournament. People know how to avoid Snake well in this region because I've taught a lot of them personally, and the MKs here are smart and talented.
ANYONE! If you have a strategy or more reliable method of how to regain a lost lead from MK without getting *****, PLEASE let me know.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
I was going to detail to you some of the strategies I use to fight MK in this post, but I figure screw that. I'll just give you rare footage of Pierce playing Snake. Obviously, it's not perfect stuff, but these are reasonably good matches. There will be two matches of me winning, and two of me losing (those were the only 4 I played today with Snake.)
You'll note that when I don't make mistakes, or when I have the lead, I virtually destroy my opponent, but once I lose the lead, it's over.
I just called my sparring partner now, and asked him to upload the matches. He said they'll be up in about an hour, so I'll be back then.
You'll note that when I don't make mistakes, or when I have the lead, I virtually destroy my opponent, but once I lose the lead, it's over.
I just called my sparring partner now, and asked him to upload the matches. He said they'll be up in about an hour, so I'll be back then.
RATED
Smash Lord
against Grounded MK, ALWAYS of most the time, leave a grenade behind you or near of you , so that the MK can't roll behind you(with his fast roll) , neither grab you since the grenade will explode and you can throw tilts becuase even if he grabs you the grenade is there. So also you can get out another nade throw it and while the grounded one will explode. and **** like that just vary it.
against a Dair campy mk, always have a grenade in front of you with or/and use the "soft thrown grenades" (backwards **** with the grenade stance so it stays in front of you) so that they can't go ahead and nado you. and varying it is the most important thing since MK has 2049182904 options
Upsmash works against a MK in the air since ( if I can remember right now) none of mk's aerials can't break the Mortals thingies.
the harder ones is when MK decides to not fight you anymore
against a Dair campy mk, always have a grenade in front of you with or/and use the "soft thrown grenades" (backwards **** with the grenade stance so it stays in front of you) so that they can't go ahead and nado you. and varying it is the most important thing since MK has 2049182904 options
Upsmash works against a MK in the air since ( if I can remember right now) none of mk's aerials can't break the Mortals thingies.
the harder ones is when MK decides to not fight you anymore
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
I rly like your idea of stacking nades, its something that i did before but not really concious of it, I def should learn that.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
Okay, I don't think these are the best vids of my Snake, but the comments I left in each of the 4 videos helps to depict my issue.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RJssbb
The 4 most recent vids on this channel.
Watching myself play, I think I need to just Dash Grab without a grenade more often, because people fear the tilts, and they just block. As a Marth/MK player, I like hitting people's shield and being safe, but I should really take advantage of Snake's massive reward from a grab.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RJssbb
The 4 most recent vids on this channel.
Watching myself play, I think I need to just Dash Grab without a grenade more often, because people fear the tilts, and they just block. As a Marth/MK player, I like hitting people's shield and being safe, but I should really take advantage of Snake's massive reward from a grab.
Bizkit047
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 16, 2008
- Messages
- 1,632
Peirce, try playing Orion if you want to learn how to deal with camping MKs. He literally tries to run the timer every game, and won't approach unless he's losing. I've played him multiple times in tourney, and it usually goes back and forth. He beat me at Gauntlet, but then I beat him at Apex.
Getting the lead back isn't terribly bad unless it's a very solid lead, like an early gimp or something. You have to keep on camping with nades no matter what. Taking huge risks does not pay off most of the time, and just gets you ***** more. I think it's best to study what the MK does when you toss nades at him. Some like to instant toss nades back. So how do you counter that? Strip them. If MKs side step the nades if you hard throw them, try lobbing a slightly cooked one from a safe distance. What you don't want to do is to start jumping aerials at the camping MK. Nair is a terrible move to try to snag an aerial MK with. Bair is your best choice most of the time, but if the MK air dodges your attempt, you get hit. It can beat Dair camping though. But generally, I see most Snakes get impatient and approach then get *****, when all it would take is a few nades going off on the MK to even it out and get the lead back.
I would say about specific nade strats, go with mixing up cooking. If all you do is pull out nades and throw them immediately, the MK has 4 seconds to think about how he wants to dodge it. You cook a nade or two around the same time, throw them both one after another, then you just limited the options greatly. It depends if the MK is camping a ledge or platform really, but you can also use nades to create openings. Something I've noticed about MKs that camp hard is if you get the lead back they usually panic and start carelessly approaching to try to gain that small lead back, and that's when you take advantage of the situation. Don't forget that nades do small % damage when they hit MK too, which does add up.
I honestly don't know about this matchup anymore lmao. I mean, MKs I've beaten lately from NJ are Nairo and Orion. I've lost to Big M the week after, though, but he caught me really off guard game 1. I like to think whoever wins game 1 wins the set, but that doesn't seem to happen. On paper, MK easily beats Snake 60-40 IMO, but no one plays to that perfection to cover all of Snakes options constantly, and all it takes is one mistake for Snake to make a comeback because of his high damage potential. The same can be said for MK, too. One mistake over the ledge is a stock loss, or a grab on stage can lead to a 0 to 80% combo. The mistakes Snake makes hurt him more than the mistakes MK make, but aside from gimping, Snake also can live almost twice as long as MK can.
Getting the lead back isn't terribly bad unless it's a very solid lead, like an early gimp or something. You have to keep on camping with nades no matter what. Taking huge risks does not pay off most of the time, and just gets you ***** more. I think it's best to study what the MK does when you toss nades at him. Some like to instant toss nades back. So how do you counter that? Strip them. If MKs side step the nades if you hard throw them, try lobbing a slightly cooked one from a safe distance. What you don't want to do is to start jumping aerials at the camping MK. Nair is a terrible move to try to snag an aerial MK with. Bair is your best choice most of the time, but if the MK air dodges your attempt, you get hit. It can beat Dair camping though. But generally, I see most Snakes get impatient and approach then get *****, when all it would take is a few nades going off on the MK to even it out and get the lead back.
I would say about specific nade strats, go with mixing up cooking. If all you do is pull out nades and throw them immediately, the MK has 4 seconds to think about how he wants to dodge it. You cook a nade or two around the same time, throw them both one after another, then you just limited the options greatly. It depends if the MK is camping a ledge or platform really, but you can also use nades to create openings. Something I've noticed about MKs that camp hard is if you get the lead back they usually panic and start carelessly approaching to try to gain that small lead back, and that's when you take advantage of the situation. Don't forget that nades do small % damage when they hit MK too, which does add up.
I honestly don't know about this matchup anymore lmao. I mean, MKs I've beaten lately from NJ are Nairo and Orion. I've lost to Big M the week after, though, but he caught me really off guard game 1. I like to think whoever wins game 1 wins the set, but that doesn't seem to happen. On paper, MK easily beats Snake 60-40 IMO, but no one plays to that perfection to cover all of Snakes options constantly, and all it takes is one mistake for Snake to make a comeback because of his high damage potential. The same can be said for MK, too. One mistake over the ledge is a stock loss, or a grab on stage can lead to a 0 to 80% combo. The mistakes Snake makes hurt him more than the mistakes MK make, but aside from gimping, Snake also can live almost twice as long as MK can.
should clarify that my early statement meant this. snake isn't going to have a huge problem getting back 5-20% or whatever, but if he gets deep in the hole he's bad at making it up. to some extent most characters have this problem, even MK, but I think snake suffers particularly badly from it
Getting the lead back when the MK intentionally baits you and runs away is not only incredibly hard but really frustrating and stupid. Most MKs dont play the matchup like that, and in fact most MKs are pretty terrible at this match up by comparison.
Playing Se1br1k is too gay.
Playing Se1br1k is too gay.
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
Nades blow up in 3 seconds, not 4.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
i dont even think im good vs snake lol, i suck as with nado which is like half the matchup.
Bizkit047
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 16, 2008
- Messages
- 1,632
You're good at doing what Pierce has problems with, which is hard camping. You'll see what I mean if you watch the videos he posted of RJ's MK. Plus, you're not bad vs Snake IMO. You could improve, but you did beat Fatal in a set. I just notice that you panic when you fall behind in % and start nadoing too much into nades.
Takeover1806
Smash Champion
I def agree with this statement, an mk that knows how to camp is extremely hard to beat.
true true true true
AfroQT
Smash Master
Seibrik is really good at the MU...Hes really gay. He plays the matchup extremely aggressive, or atleast hes very good on offense.
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
hai guys
funny story.... i actually DIDNT name search myself this time
anyway..
ya i wrock snake with any character i play basically
-mk/d3/wario- get at me
funny story.... i actually DIDNT name search myself this time
anyway..
ya i wrock snake with any character i play basically
-mk/d3/wario- get at me