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MU discussion: SHEIK

Xyro77

Xyro77

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How do we win?
What do we watch out for?
Stages to BAN/CP?
Tips/Tricks when fighting this character?
Videos?
MU classification?




Remember, we are not using the "mu ratio" scheme anymore. Describe the MU using the following MU classifications:


Heavy Disadvantage
Disadvantage
Slight Disadvantage
Even
Slight Advantage
Advantage
Heavy Advantage
 
Hive

Hive

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This matchup is so rare that its almost not worth discussing heh :) but if I had to take a guess it would be a heavy disadvantage or disadvantage for samus . Sheik is a really underrated character in general but she can exploit samus' weaknesses sooo well. She is one of the best characters at approaching through our spam and her dmg outputs at close range are much larger than our own in the long run. We actually have decent kill percent on her though, but she is also harder than most ppl expect to hit offledge, and is really good at swatting us away when recovering and then using her chain to edgeguard when we are forced to screw attack to recover, her aerials come out so quick they are hard to counter, and she combos samus well with grabs/ftilts/aerials. I remember a video awhile ago with rohins facing a shiek (gimpyfish), and I know its outdated and obviously things have changed since, but watching it you can see that samus is forced into a really defensive state and sheik is really constantly getting through and attacking her, and even getting out moves during our initial animations of our moves, and I wouldn't be sure how samus could reliably turn this towards her favor consistently. I know this is sorta similar to how sonic deals with samus too. Anyways here is the link to that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-ri3CgnSYg&feature=related. (and I know this isn't a really great vid of you rohins I'm sorry :( )
I've played some decent sheiks myself and it is very hard to pull off wins then, I can only imagine how hard it would be vs. like Armada or some other high level tourney sheik. We lack the ability to space well against her.

So yea I'm going to say heavy disadvantage- meaning that a high level sheik will beat a high level samus due to advantages that samus can not reasonably overcome. Yea its not as disadvantaged as, say, mk but I still expect that sheiks will be able to beat samus pretty consistently. I could be wrong obviously though, but I get that feeling.
 
Cherry64

Cherry64

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I would say Disadvantage. She gets in samus' face like you wouldn't believe and doens't move her very far away with most of her attacks, which really screws us because it's hard to hit her with anything. In fact I believe a grounded super missile will go over her if she's running. she also has an amazing shield dash which further screws us. It's a hard match up thats' for sure, but as hive said it's a rare match up thank god.
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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Grab the ledge when Sheik is recovering, makes it much easier to punish her recovery.

Sheiks frame data is massively overwhelming against Samus. Sadly I have never faced a good Samus so I have little knowledge about this matchup/
 
Fuujin

Fuujin

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Double posting in ur threads.
Disregard this post.
Hive just gave you every spec of information you'll even need to know this match up.
GO SAMUS BOARDS!
It's a wonder you guys haven't got her up to mid tier yet.
 
KillerJawz

KillerJawz

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shadow1pj said:
I didnt read the OP


disadvantage =60/40s( i guess?) so disadvantage thats my take on it.
Click to expand...
It doesn't equal to any kind of ratios. They are words stating how bad or good the MU is for Samus. Ratios are not used in this board.
 
Cherry64

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It's definitely Disadvantage. Like I played Mars online last week, and I got buffed from the lag, and he got punished for it. I won maybe once, they were all close games, but samus can't do very much against sheik, she's too fast.

When sheik's don't know the MU they will follow you offstage and THAT is what you NEEED to punish to win. She has a bunch of stupid combo's even at high percents so you have to avoid close quarters combat against her if at all possible. Getting grabs in and throwing her offstage is really the only thing I can see working, just be very careful grabbing.

Essentially I'm just saying how hard it is to fight a good sheik as samus.

:251:
 
Jalen

Jalen

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My brother is a Sheik mainer, so I play him offline alot.
But anyway, I usually try to keep Sheik away by zairing a lot sometimes because most Sheik's are aggressive. I really don't use missles in that MU a lot. Mainly when I do missle to grabbing.

I also like going to places like Battlefield so I can stay away from her needles.
I get hit a lot by them sometimes.
-.-
 
KillerJawz

KillerJawz

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Yeah IsmaR pretty much gg'ed you.
Issy <3

Anyway, I'd go for Light advantage for Sheik

[reserving post for when I get up and not drunk]
 
Fuujin

Fuujin

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Double posting in ur threads.
Riiight, forget I even said anything.
His post is so much more detailed than mine.

"Sheik can approach
she does good damage
I saw a video of this once"

I think you guys are all set then
I'll just remove mine.
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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Cherry64 said:
It's definitely Disadvantage. Like I played Mars online last week, and I got buffed from the lag, and he got punished for it. I won maybe once, they were all close games, but samus can't do very much against sheik, she's too fast.

When sheik's don't know the MU they will follow you offstage and THAT is what you NEEED to punish to win. She has a bunch of stupid combo's even at high percents so you have to avoid close quarters combat against her if at all possible. Getting grabs in and throwing her offstage is really the only thing I can see working, just be very careful grabbing.

Essentially I'm just saying how hard it is to fight a good sheik as samus.

:251:
Click to expand...
Haha yea when I went offstage i got raaaped!.

You also want to get Sheik above you....she has a horrible blindspot beneath her.

But yea this matchup is advantage Sheik.
 
Cherry64

Cherry64

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If you knew the MU Mars, it would just be silly in your favor. I say Disadvantage.

Slight seems to little for this, but it's not as bad as MK, you just have to space really well, and be DDD Careful.
 
IsmaR

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You have to be Dedede careful for every match up. Samus be bad, get with the program.

However, I don't think this particular MU is that bad. Slight, maybe, but full or heavy seems like it's pushing it a bit.
 
NO-IDea

NO-IDea

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IsmaR, if you ever came to MD/VA, I would have shown you how this MU is heavy disadvantage. But you didn't.
 
Cherry64

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I mean, I do pretty well against most Oli's I encounter. I beat a good one around where I live in a set. everyone was ****ting themselves becuz they know Oli ***** samus up and down the stage. After that, even IMO it's not even, nowhere near.

I unno, Oli just doesn't seem too hard for me. Falco is getting better now too tbh, still stupid though :glare:

 
SuSa

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Is this a Sheik or an Olimar matchup discussion? I can't tell.

Also can someone tell me what Sheik has to put this into her advantage? Outside of the speed to punish a lot of your attacks, I can't see what she really has over Samus.

And that's coming from a Sheik player. I play Sheik more than Snake... I've just... never played a Samus outside of tournament (I play Snake for tourney because Sheik is ****ed over by every neutral stage game 1 and frankly I haven't mastered the MK matchup and Marth is just stupid)

:nifty::leek:
 
Cherry64

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her speed takes away our combo potential, to put it bluntly.Samus' combo potential has a LOT to do with her hand to hand combat game. Missiles provide openings for us to deal damage. Shiek can get past our missiles well, and straight up **** us up in hand to hand combat. If we don't get many openings we won't be doing very good. Samus doesn't get lucky hits.
She also has an easier time handling zair while on the ground than many other chars.

Samus doens't have many options at all for what shiek has on us, and we will only start doing damage at later percents which is not a good thing, even though you guys can't kill us for a while, it can still go to time, You CAN hit us with Usmash. or you could gimp us. It's hard to do, but still possible, however would not recommend Sheiks trying to gimp samus, as you will probably lose a stock. Sheiks Fair though at higher percents will wreck samus IMO.

I'm going to bed :( I am waaaaay to tired, SuSa you stay up far too late. And my snake is so bad I don't even feel like posting in the snake boards noww :urg:
 
SuSa

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I just remembered how low Sheik's crouch is.

Nevermind everything I just attempted to say, and it's only 2am.

/1:30am morning johns for not remembering how low Sheik's crouch is and the problems it causes for Samus's camping game + zair spacing

:nifty::leek:
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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SuSa said:
Is this a Sheik or an Olimar matchup discussion? I can't tell.

Also can someone tell me what Sheik has to put this into her advantage? Outside of the speed to punish a lot of your attacks, I can't see what she really has over Samus.

And that's coming from a Sheik player. I play Sheik more than Snake... I've just... never played a Samus outside of tournament (I play Snake for tourney because Sheik is ****ed over by every neutral stage game 1 and frankly I haven't mastered the MK matchup and Marth is just stupid)

:nifty::leek:
Click to expand...
Uh no. Lol explain please.

Sheik has one of the fastest shields out of a run in the game. Great against characters like Tink and Samus, crouch goes completely under zair and super missiles, frame data is insane, and she can actually live past 100 in this MU lolololool. Probably not more than a 6-4 advantage though. Like you said I don't see too much that she can do to Samus outside of normal Sheik stuff.
 
Cherry64

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-Mars- said:
Uh no. Lol explain please.

Sheik has one of the fastest shields out of a run in the game. Great against characters like Tink and Samus, crouch goes completely under zair and super missiles, frame data is insane, and she can actually live past 100 in this MU lolololool. Probably not more than a 6-4 advantage though. Like you said I don't see too much that she can do to Samus outside of normal Sheik stuff.
Click to expand...
We can still hit you with Zair when your crouching, It's just harder to pull off. Crouching more screws our missile barrages.

Also when samus is "combo"ing sheik she can throw out a random Fair or Nair and then start beating our ***. Like i said her ground game tools ours, and for the most part her air game interupts ours, but I still think we win in the air. However the fight more than likely won't be fought in the air, thus, Sheik wins this one.

Hive said:
You




are





wrong






Size matters.
Click to expand...
This coming from a chick made me lol soooooo hard.

And cry at the same time :urg:
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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KillerJawz said:
I stopped reading there. Zair can hit a crouching Jiggs/Kirby with ease.
Click to expand...
Ok. Good to know. How bout you actually contribute something instead of posting "I stopped reading there" or just stay out of the thread.
 
KillerJawz

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-Mars- said:
Ok. Good to know. How bout you actually contribute something instead of posting "I stopped reading there" or just stay out of the thread.
Click to expand...
I am contributing to the thread. I'm correcting you, since you quite clearly havn't seen a Samus who can actually space a zair.
Online Cherry doesn't count
.

Everything that has needed to be said has basically been said already, I was simply correcting your post because it was heavily misinformed. Cherry summed up the MU perfectly, so me writing a two thousand or so word write up would simply be defeating the purpose.

If you want something to call me on, then i'll say this: Samus beats Sheik on BF.
 
-Mars-

-Mars-

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KillerJawz said:
I am contributing to the thread. I'm correcting you, since you quite clearly havn't seen a Samus who can actually space a zair.
Online Cherry doesn't count
.

Everything that has needed to be said has basically been said already, I was simply correcting your post because it was heavily misinformed.
Click to expand...

Samus mains don't actually exist/go to tournies so not my problem and i've watched Xyro plenty of times, just have never seen the zair used against a crouching Sheik. So lol whatever bruh.
 
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