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Official MBR 2010 NTSC Tier List

Dark Hart

Dark Hart

Rejected by Azua
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
11,251
Location
Death Row, North Carolina
Merkuri said:
HAHA OMG! You're a *******.

Read the rest of my posts doofou.
Click to expand...
1. What's a doofou? Seriously I want to know XD Seriously that word sounds and looks awesome.

2. I did re the rest of your post, and that still doesn't take away the fact that you apparently don't know anything about Falco or Melee.

Shiz is the aggro falco, so he's going to get gimped more because he's gonna be more risky on the edge due to his aggro nature.

there's your correlation
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
Falco's recovery is still pretty good. With good DI a smart player has lots of options making it difficult to gimp. Falco's make it back all the time.

****'s gimpable for sure, but that whole if falco is offstage he dies garb needs to stop. There probably arent even alot of players who have 50% gimp rates on falco. Meaning 50% of the time he is hit off stage its a stock.
 
Shadow Huan

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
it's easier to gimp falco if he's forced to use his U-B, most of his recovery trickies come from the Phantasam or whatever it's called. It's a far less vulnerable move.

what with the spiking and oddball hitframes.
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
Shadowball2 said:
it's easier to gimp falco if he's forced to use his U-B, most of his recovery trickies come from the Phantasam or whatever it's called. It's a far less vulnerable move.

what with the spiking and oddball hitframes.
Click to expand...
The angle of his up B and the height at which he chooses to up B is also very important. When things get hectic, the falco who panicks and upbs right away often gets killed. The one who can keep composure and sweetspot by allowing themselves to fall even further makes it back more often.

Good angles, wall hugging, and shine stalling make a huge difference as well. And then of course there are the phantasm tricks.
 
Shadow Huan

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
I'm just bad at write-ups lol.

i was referring to the start-up time on falco's up-b, during the charge he's totally vulnerable, hence the possibility of gimps being higher in the gimpers favor.

not disagreeing with anything you said mind you ;)
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
Yea, for the most part I agree with that. I will say that phantasm is limited in the sense that you can only go straight. So up B and side B both have their vulnerability. But overall falco gets off in recovering alot more than ppl give him credit for. Top 1/4 of the cast for sure like imo Id say something along these lines:
Puff
M2
Peach
samus
Fox
Falco
Zelda
Marth
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
I gimped PP like

3 times between 2 sets

The rest was elaborate death comboing

I suck at gimping though. I much prefer elaborate death combos
 
x After Dawn x

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
3,732
Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
jbobs you're forgetting the fact that 2/7 gimps is still much higher than what you are implying, not to mention that a single gimp is enough to completely ruin momentum and lose a match, like in shiz's case vs m2k.

also you people saying phantasm is good = lol. phantasm has the worst hitbox setup for any move in the game. any character can literally jab falco out of it because the hitbox for the attack is way behind the hurtbox in the front where you actually see falco.
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
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Messages
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Location
The Wash: Lake City
x After Dawn x said:
also you people saying phantasm is good = lol. phantasm has the worst hitbox setup for any move in the game. any character can literally jab falco out of it because the hitbox for the attack is way behind the hurtbox in the front where you actually see falco.
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Your reason for why phantasm is a bad recovery move is stupid. Just because a move has a ****ty hitbox doesnt mean its good/bad for getting falco from point A to point B quickly and or safely. You also need to simultaneously considered his entire arsenal of recovery tools to really make a judgment on how useful a particular move is for recovering.
 
JPOBS

JPOBS

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Messages
5,821
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Mos Eisley
x After Dawn x said:
jbobs you're forgetting the fact that 2/7 gimps is still much higher than what you are implying, not to mention that a single gimp is enough to completely ruin momentum and lose a match, like in shiz's case vs m2k.
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Much higher than I'm implying? The only thing I'm implying is that the commonly held belief that "falco is so easy to gimp" is largely overrated and exagerrated, especially considering a success rate of only 28% from the best gimper in the history of melee vs shiz (who is likely most gimp-prone falco due to his general playstyle but thats neither here nor there)

"Throw him offstage and he dies" would imply a success rate of 100% and yet that isnt even close to the truth.

If anything, the shiz vs m2k set serves only to further my point that falco's ability to be gimped is incredibly overrated by the community and is skewed towards either single, isolated, famous incidents (as sited) or playing bad falcos (why would we base anything on low level metagame)

The ability to ruin momentum and lose a match are completely outside the context of this discussion, and are balanced/offset by a million other factors which also have the ability to "ruin momentum and lose a match"
 
Ocean

Ocean

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
3,810
Slippi.gg
OCEAN#0
the fact that he isn't gimped extremely often doesn't make it any less true that he is the most gimpable character in melee.
 
llamapaste

llamapaste

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
430
Ness and Falcon get gimped more often. Other characters like Doc and Luigi have worse recoveries than Falco.
 
Ocean

Ocean

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
3,810
Slippi.gg
OCEAN#0
falcon definitely does not get gimped more often than falco. I don't know about ness.

worse recovery =! more gimpable
 
x After Dawn x

x After Dawn x

Smash Master
Joined
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Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
yeah roy's recovery is **** tier.

kaostar, falco's phantasm is arguably one of the most obvious things you should predict when facing him and it should be on your mind to edgeguard it whenever he's off stage. mewtwo might not have the tools to do that (lol) but try playing a bit of marth and you'll see what i mean. and the fact that it does have the worst hitbox and hurtbox setup of all moves in the game is most DEFINITELY a reason why phantasm isn't good.

the fact that falco has an up B saves him from having the worst recovery in the game, otherwise it'd be worse than ness.
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
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Messages
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I disagree with that garbage. all of it! Except Roy's recovery isnt there.

Falcos side B can still get him to the ledge. and you can do all sorts of mix ups and platform ledge cancels, etc, etc....side B and shorten, side B high make it look like ur bout to edge cancel and shorten etc etc.

Im just saying that you cant argue with the fact that falco recovers with side b successfully all the time. having an up B that covers multiple angles and the ability to stall allows falco to properly mix up his recovery and catch ppl off guard with his side B's.

The fact is no matter what you say about his side b...he says **** you cuz im still gonna recover with it.
 
bossa nova ♪

bossa nova ♪

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Messages
2,876
Ocean said:
falcon definitely does not get gimped more often than falco. I don't know about ness.

worse recovery =! more gimpable
Click to expand...
hmmm... do you have like a list of statistics or something?



cuz i'd definitely say that falcon's recover <<<<< falco's


god that dude's recover sux balls


i mean he can do some things yeah.... that may getcha a coulple times



but you actually just stink cuz that ***** should not be gettin back.... falcon kick my ***
 
Dark Hart

Dark Hart

Rejected by Azua
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
11,251
Location
Death Row, North Carolina
I actually don't do it

because of Mango

I just kinda read what I type

and then click enter

at certain places

I kinda like reading it that way

iunno I'm weird I guess
 
SleepyK

SleepyK

Banned via Administration
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
5,871
falco's recovery is mediocre.
he has a lot of options that he can trick people with, but they are mitigated by his lack of distance and gimpability.
i would agree to "pretty OK" at best.

idk why so many people wait for space animals to fly at them with the up-b part to hit them. especially falco, since he doesn't have a hitbox on his up b charge animation.
HEY GUYS I AM STAYING IN ONE SPOT FOR 2-3 SECONDS PLS NO HIT ME OK
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
SleepyK said:
falco's recovery is mediocre.
he has a lot of options that he can trick people with, but they are mitigated by his lack of distance and gimpability.
i would agree to "pretty OK" at best.

idk why so many people wait for space animals to fly at them with the up-b part to hit them. especially falco, since he doesn't have a hitbox on his up b charge animation.
HEY GUYS I AM STAYING IN ONE SPOT FOR 2-3 SECONDS PLS NO HIT ME OK
Click to expand...
I completely agree, but comparatively to alot of the cast. Id rather have Falco's mix-ups or other characters priority or net distance.

I dont think that Falco has a bomb-diggity recovery on its own, only when you compare it to the predictability and limitations of the other characters recoveries. I also completely forgot to list Pikachu/Pichu above falco haha. Marth may be better as well.

Pretty Aight I can agree with. If you lumped them into tiers he is in the tier above the masses, above the losers, above the roy players.
 
stingers

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
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Location
Raleigh, NC
ummm lots of people type "like this"

i've been doing it for years

it indicates a break in thought

||

you could also try this...but idk...i switch back and forth between the two a lot
 
CloneHat

CloneHat

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
2,131
Location
Montreal, Quebec
Pichu's recovery is actually a lot better than Pikachu's.

He doesn't get punished when you force him to land on stage, which is kind of the major exploitable weakness of Pikachu's.
 
KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Falco's recovery is harder to get an automatic punish on than someone with lots of onstage recovery lag.

It is easy to OHKO him when you actually do get the hit, however.
 
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