Zelda's Personal Matchup Thread

Zelda's Personal Matchup Thread

Much like the way the Ganon's did it we will start at the end of the tier list ironically starting with Ganon.
(but you don't have to quote the person above you)

Every Zelda user may post on what they believe the MU is against a character by either the new way (-4 through 4) or the old way (0-100 - 0-100). and (or) post what you know about the MU or any questions about the the current character.

Other character users may post to clarify Ratio's, or answer Questions; but no Ratio's may be added unless they second or have an understanding with Zelda.

No Trolling, Flaming. gifs, and pics need to be collapsed

Number of times this thread went into a discussion: 3

Character will change every week on Wednesday

(Tier List 5 is flipped without Zelda and Shelda)
[COLLAPSE="Completed"]

*Sonic The Hedgedawg 65-35
*Fuujin +1, @Brinstar -1
*WickedDeceit 60-40
*ScaryLB59 +2 (60-40), @Brinstar +1
*AlanHaTe +2
*JigglyZelda003 60-40


*WickedDeceit 50-50
**ScaryLB59 0, +1
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 55-45 - 60-40
*AlanHaTe +1
*JigglyZelda003 50-50
*Fuujin -1


*Sonic The Hedgedawg 60-40
*AlanHaTe +1
*JigglyZelda003 50-50 (stage) 65-35
*ScaryLB59 0
*Fuujin 0


*JigglyZelda003 40-60
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 45-55
*ScaryLB59 -1
*Fuujin -2


*Sonic The Hedgedawg 50-50 (60-40, 40-60)
*JigglyZelda003 50-50 (60-40, 40-60)
*ScaryLB59 0 or -1
*Fuujin 0 (on Smashville and FD) -1 (all other stages)


*JigglyZelda003 50-50
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 60-40 (±5)
*Veggie123 60-40
*ScaryLB59 0
*Fuujin 0


*JigglyZelda003 50-50, 45-55
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 50-50
*Veggie123 45-55, or 60-40
*ScaryLB59 0
*Fuujin -1


*Sonic The Hedgedawg 50-50 (45-55 Stage Depending)
*JigglyZelda003 50-50
*ScaryLB59 0, or -1
*Fuujin 40-60


*Sonic The Hedgedawg 50-50
*MrEh 40-60
*GodAtHand 50-50
*Fuujin 0
*ScaryLB59 0

, , ,
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 55-45
*GodAtHand 60-40
*ScaryLB59 +1
*Fuujin -1


*Sonic The Hedgedawg 50-50
*AlanHaTe 40-60
*ScaryLB59 -1
*Aerodrome 45-55
*Fuujin -2


*ScaryLB59 -1
*JigglyZelda003 -1
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 45-55
*Aerodrome 45-55
*Fuujin -1


*Sonic The Hedgedawg 45-55
*JigglyZelda003 40-60
*ScaryLB59 -1 (45-55)
*AlanHaTe 40- 60, or 45-55
*Fuujin -2


*JigglyZelda003 40-60
*AlanHaTe -2
*ScaryLB59 -1
*Toadallstar2 40-60
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 45-55
*Fuujin -2


*JigglyZelda003 40-60
*AlanHaTe 30-70 (-3)
*ScaryLB59 -2
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 40-60
*Fuujin -3


*JigglyZelda003 40-60
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 40-60
*Aerodrome 40-60
*AlanHaTe 40-60
*ScaryLB59 -1
*Fuujin -2


*mountain_tiger 35-65
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 40-60
*ScaryLB59 -1
*Fuujin -2


*Sonic The Hedgedawg 35-65 (50-50 on certain stages)
*JigglyZelda003 35-65 (50-50 on certain stages)
*GodAtHand 40-60, 45-55
*Fuujin -3
*ScaryLB59 -2


*GodAtHand 45-55, or 40-60
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 45-55, or 40-60
*Aerodrome 40-60
*AlanHaTe -1 or -2
*Fuujin -2
*ScaryLB59 -1 or -2


*Sonic The Hedgedawg 45-55
*ScaryLB59 50-50
*Aerodrome 45-55
*Fuujin -2



*JigglyZelda003 40-60
*Courier 40-60
*Fuujin -3
*Aerodrome -2
*ScaryLB59 -2


*Sonic The Hedgedawg 45-55
*Aerodrome 40-60
*mountain_tiger 40-60
*AlanHaTe -1 or -2
*JigglyZelda003 -2
*Courier -2
*ScaryLB59 -1.5


*Fuujin -3
*JigglyZelda003 -3
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 30-70
*AlanHaTe -2, -3
*ScaryLB59 -2
*Courier -2, -3
*ALMoStLeGeNdArY -1


*Courier -3
*ScaryLB59 -2
*MochaMew 40-60


*Courier -1.5
*ScaryLB59 -2
*JigglyZelda003 -2
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 40-60


*Sonic The Hedgedawg 25-75
*ScaryLB59 -2
*Aerodrome -2
*Courier -3
*MechaWave -2


*ScaryLB59 -2
*Courier -2
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 50-50
*Aerodrome -1
*MechaWave -1


*Courier -2 to -3
*Sonic The Hedgedawg -1
*ScaryLB59 -2, -1
*MechaWave -1


*Courier -4
*AlanHaTe -4
*ScaryLB59 -3.4
*MechaWave -4
*AyatoK29 -4
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 15-85


*Courier -4
*Aerodrome -3
*AlanHaTe -2.5
*ScaryLB59 -3
*JigglyZelda003 -3


*JigglyZelda003 -2
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 35-65




*Aleate -2
*evmaxy54 -2
*ScaryLB59 -2


*Aleate-3
*evmaxy54 -4
*ScaryLB59 -2


*Aleate-3
*evmaxy54 -3
*ScaryLB59 -2


*Aleate -3.5
*evmaxy54 -2
*ScaryLB59 -2


*Aleate -4
*evmaxy54
*ScaryLB59 -3
[/COLLAPSE]

Completed

Ganon is not so bad for us at all. He's slow and has no projectiles so he can't camp us and we (generally) outrange him.

He's tall so we can SH lightning kick him without much trouble at all.

Ganon's Dair is normally threatening, but, really, Zelda's Usmash can punishes ganondorf whenever he finds himself above us....


Realistically, Zelda has Down+B and shiek is so ugly on ganondorf that it's not even funny so, I mean, what Zelda is going to play Zelda against the Dorf when they could destroy him SO EASILY with shiek?

If you insist on not taking the best odds, however, Ganondorf is just a terrible character and the things that hold him back against the rest of the cast hold him back against Zelda too.





I don't know about exact numbers, but Zelda has a clear advantage against Ganondorf, probably 65:35 no higher than 70:30 though.

No one is arguing that Zelda doesn't beat Ganon.

70-30 is a high though. 70-30 essentially means that Zelda is a hard counter to Ganon, which is not the case. Ganon is THE bad character in the game, but he's not that far off from Zelda.

MrEh said:

70-30 is a high though. 70-30 essentially means that Zelda is a hard counter to Ganon, which is not the case. Ganon is THE bad character in the game, but he's not that far off from Zelda.

Click to expand...

This
I gave my opinion on this MU a long time ago.
Its almost like Zelda dittos, who ever approaches loses.
She can't approach him and he can't approach her.
She can't camp either because u air goes through Din's fire.
Ganon is big and has a lot of moves that leave him open for lightning kicks but if the player is smart he/she wont just throw moves out there for them to get punished.
She wins while shes on the ground, he wins while shes in the air.

I'd say +1 for Zelda in most cases.
-1 For stages like Brinstar/Norfair.

Ganon can kill us easy but his moves are slower. His approach is about as bad as ours but he has no projectile to camp or semi-camp (self made term for camping thats not as effective or not very effective) with. Uair can be annoying. you shouldn't really get hit with warlock punch or Utilt unless your shield broken or ganon does mindgames. Dair does ok against Usmash if you know where to hit (not the leg) but the hitstun doesn't last long but he has a chance at triping at high percents. 60-40 Zelda at best or 50-50 at worst.

And next is Link!

60 - 40 for Ganon for the reasons already stated.

I say 50-50 for Link. He has projectiles, albeit sucky ones, but his set is better than Din's so Zelda is forced to approach always. Zelda has the tools to get inside/approach but a good link can keep her away so the game is cat-and-mouse. His ground game is mediocre and his aerials are easy to dodge. Same goes for Zelda so I call it even.

For Ganon, I believe that we are a +2 (60-40) but as fuujin said, it's entirely stage dependent. Ganon is actually kinda bad on Brinstar, just avoid his gimmicks and you'll be fine. Maybe Norfair makes him get to +1 but we do quite well there imo.

As for Link, I think it's either even or +1 for us. He honestly has some trouble killing as long as you know his patterns. His only reliable set up is out of jab, which leads to Dsmash. Otherwise he has to set up bombs or take a big risk, we can kill much better. Dsmash, is a big reason even though they have whiplash recovery. Its really based on how reliable they are at teching and performing that recovery. Also, if Zelda can PS, it really messes Link up.

I've got not that much exp with the Ganon MU but Nair helps a lot beating many or all of his aerials iirc

For Link I learned the bad way that if you always PS the proyectiles and clawshoot that like the best thing you can do about them, also the bombs are easy to catch and you can throw them back to him safely(not like snake) I guess we all know that but we don't want to be much ander link when he's in the air because of his Dair! Links FF speed can make him get you when you think he won't so be careful and remember this.
When getting hit by jab try to SDI away so you don't get hit by Dsmash or when you get hit by Dmash don't go straight up and mess up the DI, I think it's possible to shield or even PS it but I'm not sure tbh

Okay so Link. His projectile game kills us in the sense that zelda does NOT respond favorably to camping. That having been said, other than zair, most of link's zoning tools are actually kinda slow making it generally pretty easy to sheild them and come out no worse for the wear meaning, while it is certainly advantageous for link to have those projectiles, it's not like it's game-breaking or that it really ramps up our damage counters all that much.

As far as once we are in actual brawiling range, we go pretty evenly with maybe an advantage to link, if anything, due to having faster disjoints, for the most part, but he really DOES have trouble landing a killing blow.

Aerially, link is superior so... that's kinda lame, but not unnexpected, zelda has one of the worst (if not THE worst) air game IN the game. Generally neither of us prefer fighting there though so that's not a huge issue either.

Link falls fast and is heavy which is good AND bad. The bad is obviously that zelda likes to kill things off the top areas of the screen and link is quite hard to kill that way. The plus is that it makes racking up damage with Usmash pretty good once we land it.

The MAJOR point here that starts to turn this matchup to Zelda's advantage is link's BEYOND TERRIBLE recovery. I mean, zelda's is bad, but link's barely exists. And considering the trajectory from Zelda's Dsmash, I mean, that can result in a pretty low damage kill on link. And a stock advantage really kills link's ability to camp us.


The stage can be an issue here with stages that inhibit camping putting us at a more obvious advantage and stages that don't evening it up for link.

I'd say the matchup can run anywhere between 50:50 to 65:35 Zelda's advantage depending on the stage and one's familiarty with the matchup, but, to be conservative, let's say it averages out to 55:45 Zelda's advantage .... and let's assume that, unless you can get an early stock off, it's not gonna feel better than 60:40 at best.

ZeldaMaster_1 said:

Ganon:
*Sonic The Hedgedawg 65-35, 70-30
*Fuujin +1, @Norfair and Brinstar -1
*WickedDeceit 60-40
*ScaryLB59 +2 (60-40), @Norfair and Brinstar -1

Click to expand...

Just FYI, I said probably 65:35. the 70:30 was a "ceiling" ratio meaning there's no way it's higher than that but my actual vote was for 65:35, and, while Scary said it was entirely stage dependant just how well we do against ganon, he suggested, if anything, WE are better at brinstar and it's probably still not as bad as -1 on norfair.

Whoops, reread my thingy for Ganon. I meant +1 for Norfair/Brinstar.

Link's camping is what I call semi-camping (his projectiles have too much of a beginning lag). His recovery is worse then ours and can be gimped by Dair if hit at the center. Its hard for him to kill other than Dair. His bombs can be annoying but they aren't the same as snake and his nades. Usmash should outrange Dair unless he FF and gets too close. Zelda has the advantage either 55-45 or 60-40

Sonic The Hedgedawg said:

Just FYI, I said probably 65:35. the 70:30 was a "ceiling" ratio meaning there's no way it's higher than that but my actual vote was for 65:35, and, while Scary said it was entirely stage dependant just how well we do against ganon, he suggested, if anything, WE are better at brinstar and it's probably still not as bad as -1 on norfair.

Click to expand...

ScaryLB59 said:

Whoops, reread my thingy for Ganon. I meant +1 for Norfair/Brinstar.

Click to expand...

Okay they are fixed

and now its Jigglypuff!!!

You might wanna correct my ratio for link to read more like 55:45-60:40.... the range is just too large otherwise.... and also Iunno if you're willing to reformat it or not, but that list of our opinions is going to become labyrinthine in just a few more matchups.




Okay jigglypuff.

She's terrible for us when she gets of off the stage and she's resistant to our Dsmash, but she FLIES when we hit her with just about anything else. Zelda has a very solid anti-air game and it doesn't take much of that to send jiggly into killable range.

I mean jiggly's air game isn't to be ignored, and on the right stages, her ability to harass us off the edge is significant enough to make the matchup actually feel even but, otherwise, I REALLY feel this is one of zelda's easiest matchups.

Unfamiliarity with jigglypuff can be deadly, but if you know what you're doing against her, she really is going to die too easily for her own good.

It might be extreme to give this matchup anything as larger because, I mean, she's zelda and jigglypuff isn't ganondorf, but a solid 60:40 seems in order.

Purin... hmm let's see, she's very light so we shouldn't have too much trouble for killing her, I think we can star killing at like 70-80% iirc... still we can't be to confident because of her air game which can be annoying and there have been some times when the "PUFF!" has successfully hit me through Usmash and that's frustrating so I learned to PS and immediatly use Usmash, Nair or even a LK lol
We don't want to be offstage, I guess we all know thats awfully bad lol
For more bad news her Nair, PUFF! go through Din's. I don't remember if Fair does but the thing is to detonate it in order to hit her head so the legs won't hit it...

For killing I highly recommend to keep as fresh as possible Usmash, it's easier to land an Usmash than a LK, but stil the LK is our best shot, because if we sweetspot she can die at 90% or something like that... well probably Uair can kill her about the same % or even lower, other ting we can do is to double footstool when she tries to get back to the stage after that it's impossible for her to get back to the stage lol... still it's something that won't happen a lot so, I guess a Dair could work better.

oh I forgot ratios for the other ones lol
Ganon +2
Link +1
Purin +1

Sonic The Hedgedawg said:

and also Iunno if you're willing to reformat it or not, but that list of our opinions is going to become labyrinthine in just a few more matchups.

Click to expand...

Okay. When we get farther down the list i'll change it once more

Also i forgot to add fox and kirby in the list lol. they are up now though.

so we are on Jigglypuff now?

50:50 even

For the longest time i've believed its pretty even. yes JP is light, dies fast, Zelda is anti-air and anti ground blah blah blah.... but that doesn't matter.

coming from JP's pov i find Zelda to be kinda like a low tier version of snake. big powerful hitboxes and anti-air. other than stages swaying this matchup around, whoever gets a percent lead first is going to have an easier time. Zelda has meh approaches on JP and Zelda anti-airs JPs. with 3 ways to go through Dins in addition to just running and shielding it Zelda can't really force JP to approach if she doesn't have the percent lead or maybe on the otherside of the stage. on paper JP has no direct way in on zelda and it all comes down to the mindgames. with percent lead JP can and should just be dancing outside of Zelda's attack range. JPs too close to throw fireballs at w/o risk of a grab or other injury and if you commit to an attack and it doesn't work Zelda's going in the sky.

i think i could go all day on this, but i won't lol since i believe this matchup is really even and mindgames and stage determine alot cause on paper this matchup looks like a 65:35 or worse for JP.

for the others 60:40 for ganon
50:50 for Links

Jigglypuff is the lightest. Uair will hurt her bad along with Fair and Bair but they are hard to land due to her height. she has good air mobility, a good aerial game, but bad with ground approaches. just stay on the ground and keep her away. Don't use din's that much (espicially if they are charging rollout). they may use rollout to recover, but they have few choices on where to aim at you. or onto the ledge.
Just be Anti-air against her and watch out for baits and the WoP. 50-50

Samus is next
(i wasn't able to get on a computer yesturday )

Samus? Zair and missles all day

i havent fought a good samus in like.......

well i've never fought a good samus offline in a 1 on 1 match, but from wifi excusing lag/latency Samus feels like 60:40 Samus. she can't kill that well but zones Zelda pretty good and lives for a while, shes also hard to gimp w/ her good recovery.DONT FIGHT SAMUS AT THE LEDGE! THAT IS HER TERRITORY SO YOU MIGHT AS WELL SIT BACK AND LOOK CUTE TILL YOU CAN MANAGE TO GET HER AWAY FROM IT!

Fighting samus comes down to how well you can manage her Zair vs how well she can use it.

her projectiles apply pressure well and can zone fantastically, especially when combined with zair. They are, however, some of the ONLY projectiles in the game that it's actually safe to reflect. Sometimes people forget zelda can reflect things because her reflector is so terrible and is used primarily as a gtfo me move, but it's there. Don't TRY to make it work, but don't forget you can use it.

I think this matchup comes ALL down to stage decision. Anything you can do to throw off samus's zair/projectile game helps you immensly. If you can really throw that much, this matchup actually starts to look like it could be zelda' advantage, but I'd never expect to throw an experienced samus off THAT much.

Anyway, even though stage choice can sway the matchup, I'd say the most Zelda can expect is 50:50 while the least is 60:40.

I suppose that puts the matchup at a 55:45 overall, but it never feels that way. It either feels like samus has NO advantage or a noticable advantage. It's all about how well samus can zone you on any given stage.

her recovery is gimpable just Dair (sour Spot) her a few times and she may not make it back to the stage. Just continue to be Anti-air against her and watch out for baits and the WoP. 55-45 Zelda

Click to expand...

I don't know, this has never happened to me. I'm pretty sure a vertical pound beats Zelda's dair if you're not exactly above Jiggs. If you're going off-stage to hit me, you may as well go for a lighting kick that will kill Jiggs really early, especially so close to the blast zone. I'd personally say this match is even. Getting in is annoying because of your multi-hit smashes, and we die really early, but Din's Fire is practically useless and once you're off-stage with Jiggs near you, it's likely that you just lost that stock.

I apologize for interrupting the Samus discussion

Samus will be hard to approach with her missles, Zair and charge shot just get close to her and keep her away from the ledges.

rm88 said:

I don't know, this has never happened to me. I'm pretty sure a vertical pound beats Zelda's dair if you're not exactly above Jiggs. If you're going off-stage to hit me, you may as well go for a lighting kick that will kill Jiggs really early, especially so close to the blast zone. I'd personally say this match is even. Getting in is annoying because of your multi-hit smashes, and we die really early, but Din's Fire is practically useless and once you're off-stage with Jiggs near you, it's likely that you just lost that stock.

I apologize for interrupting the Samus discussion

Click to expand...

fixed.

And its now on Captain Falcon so... FALCON PUNCH!!!

rm88 said:

I apologize for interrupting the Samus discussion

Click to expand...

no need to apologize. But, you do know Zelda rarely relies on Din's for . . . well.... anyone right?

ZeldaMaster_1 said:

And its now on Captain Falcon so... FALCON PUNCH!!!

Click to expand...

Iunno about captain falcon really. I mean he's really mobile and that makes zelda jealous. He doesn't have the best priority in the world so a cautious zelda shouldn't have a bad time with him, but he's fast and tough so if he can bait even a couple mistakes he can really lay the hurting on us.

If I had to summarize my experiences against Falcon, I'd say that it doesn't feel like he's got an advantage on us if, as a good princess should, we maintain our composure and play safe.

In the span of normal game, though, I mean BOTH sides are going to make a couple mistakes and he can punish us a bit harder than we can him.

I really feel remiss to give either side much of an advantage though. I'd say that whoever knows the matchup better will have up to a 60:40 advantage because both falcon and Zelda are pretty punishable.

In a matchup where both people know it about the same though . . . iunno. even? 50:50?

uh oh almost missed the falcon discussion!

im gonna have to agree w/ Shedgy on Falcon. in my experience i've gone from having no real trouble at all against Falcon, to having a bit of difficulty. stupid Uairs and grabs, why can't Zelda run around and do that D:

JigglyZelda003 said:

stupid Uairs and grabs, why can't Zelda run around and do that D:

Click to expand...

oh if we had falcon's speed, weight and air game and he had our priority disjoints and attack speed . . . well we would be one scary mo-fo

JigglyZelda003 said:

uh oh almost missed the falcon discussion!

Click to expand...

Its ok i'm late

Falcon:
he's fast. Don't use Din's on him he'll reach you before it detonates. He has a bad recovery. his B>or< is risky to use, Dair has a better Hitbox to spike. 50-50

Next is the King of the Koopas: Bowser

um bowser...hmmm...

someone get Mr Eh or DarkM in here cause i honestly dont know

is there even 1 good bowser per state?

i think its evenish. bowsers big for kicks, but has upB OoS......

I must say I haven't played against a truly great bowser... so few DO exist. I'd say DarkM and Mr.Eh know it pretty well considering they know each other pretty well . . . but, then again that could sway the matchup too much in favour of exactly how THEIR bowser and Zelda matchup.

From my experience, I've trashed every bowser I've seen but I know he has the potential to even up the matchup some and it's been a bit since I really got out there in the thick of things.

Bowser is a damn big target so zelda has NO trouble hitting him, even with her aerial game. Making Zelda's aerial game usable is a huge bonus for her in the matchup. Also, bowser and zelda have comparable range and comparable attack speed (and movement speed . . . sadly), It's Zelda's awful size:weight ratio that makes this matchup closer to even, because bowser hits HARD and he can KO zelda way more easily than she can KO him. neither really has a good approach on the other either, and neither is good at camping, so it's a good fair fight.


I'd be surprised if this matchup weren't in zelda's advantage, but I'd be surprised if Zelda was a legitimate hard-counter to bowser as well, so I'll say.

60:40 Zelda

but I wouldn't be surprised if it varied by ± 5%.




Also, you forgot Jigglyzelda's MU ratio for falcon . . . and mine would probably be a lot easier phrased as just 50:50 though you may want to add (60:40 - 40:60 ) to the end in parenthesis

i only know one mediocre bowser, he just upB OoS everything.








and thats me lol......

Bowser, like most of the larger characters, tends to get caught more easily in Zelda's attacks. He, in my opinion, seems to have a harder time capitalizing on Zelda's weaknesses such as her vulnerability in the air. On the other hand, DK and D3 have a field day with Zelda with their wonderful bairs once she gets thrown off stage.

When up against powerful characters who capitalize on strong punishes, Zelda must be careful not to make too many mistakes or you may be down a stock much earlier than you'd like.

I think 60:40 sounds right, Zelda's advantage. Though like a lot of others, I have limited MU experience against "good" Bowsers.

Veggie123 said:

Bowser, like most of the larger characters, tends to get caught more easily in Zelda's attacks. He, in my opinion, seems to have a harder time capitalizing on Zelda's weaknesses such as her vulnerability in the air. On the other hand, DK and D3 have a field day with Zelda with their wonderful bairs once she gets thrown off stage.

When up against powerful characters who capitalize on strong punishes, Zelda must be careful not to make too many mistakes or you may be down a stock much earlier than you'd like.

I think 60:40 sounds right, Zelda's advantage. Though like a lot of others, I have limited MU experience against "good" Bowsers.

Click to expand...

I don't think you should underestimates bowsers bair especially when it comes to edgeguarding then there's also his fair which is a solid move overall. So while some of his stuff may not be as good as Dk's and D3 he can still harass her pretty effectively off stage.

Yeah, I'm sure Bowser can hit her offstage with bair. His fair is good too, but the hitbox doesn't last as long DK's or D3's bair which are good at hitting her out of airdodges and at the same time suffer from a bit less lag so they can often hit her multiple times at lower percentages more reliably.

He's not bad at keeping her offstage (like most of the cast), but DK/D3 just seem to do it better from my experience.

The Most Famous Character: Mario is now up

i havent fought Mario for a long time, but it felt evenish. his fireballs are annoying, but not too threatening if Zelda watches out for the follow ups behind the fireballs.

his cape and FLUDD can mess w/ recovery, but again nothing thats not to avoidable if your careful.

i'm just feeling 50:50, maybe slight adv mario somewhere in there?

I pretty much agree with what JZ said:

Mario's fireballs are pathetic . . . but his follow-ups can hurt if you don't know that he can do them.

Cape can destory your recovery . . . or leave it completely unnaffected if you know how to undo his reversal of your control.

FLUDD isn't worthless . . . but it only rarely can mess up your recovery. Watch out for it anyway.



Basically Mario is a character who will PROBABLY beat Zelda the first couple of times you play him because he has a few tricks up his sleeve. But, in all honesty, once you get a feel for the matchup, I'd be surprised if you had any problem with the matchup at all.

His tricks are just that: tricks. He can be countered with knowledge. Even so, he doesn't become "easy" once you know his tricks, he just loses any advantage he had.


So, in summary, I'd say mario feels about 50:50 once you have played against a mario at least a few times. If there is an advantage on either side, I certainly don't feel like Zelda is disadvantaged, though.

Sonic The Hedgedawg said:

Basically Mario is a character who will PROBABLY beat Zelda the first couple of times you play him because he has a few tricks up his sleeve. But, in all honesty, once you get a feel for the matchup, I'd be surprised if you had any problem with the matchup at all.

His tricks are just that: tricks. He can be countered with knowledge. Even so, he doesn't become "easy" once you know his tricks, he just loses any advantage he had.


So, in summary, I'd say mario feels about 50:50 once you have played against a mario at least a few times. If there is an advantage on either side, I certainly don't feel like Zelda is disadvantaged, though.

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That's an interesting take, Hedgedawg. I can see that happening though I actually feel it's kind of the other way around. I used to think that this MU wasn't so bad but I eventually ended up playing a Mario who was amazing at zoning with his aerials and at that point he would just bait my attacks and punish and the set had gone downhill from there.

On that note, Mario needs to play it very safe or else he'll be in for tons of pain. Zelda outranges him for the most part, aside from his fsmash and the projectiles, which are a nuisance but more manageable than some of the others.

I think it's in Mario's favor though... but not by too much. I'm torn between 55:45 or 60:40.

Ok, I've got some catching up to do.

With Jiggs, I think it's even and I've played some really good ones. Jiggs walks on egg shells against Zelda but can hit and run against Zelda very well. Zelda will be having to run her down and corner her and shockingly, we can do that alright, hence why it's a 0 to me.

Samus is a -1 because we get camped so hard. She can't kill, especially with our momentum cancel but Samus will likely be in the lead the whole match from camping. If you bring your PS, and some patience, the MU will be fine. -1

Captain Falcon is either even or -1 for us. His speed and CQC game will be irritating and he does have a solid amount of kill power. Also, he's a tad more versatile on stages so he can also gain the advantage from stages. Just keep him at mid/close range and it'll be better for us. -1

Bowser is even. After playing Nick Riddle's and bigserg's Bowsers, I'm convinced that it's even. Fortress is so good! Our Dtilt can clank it but then another one could be coming. Klaw is another move that harasses Zelda. Can't shield it and puts us into the air, pressuring us. 0

Mario is also even. Fireballs can be PSed and as long as you react well, his followups won't be as good. That aside, Mario will be up close and wanting to juggle us. Just keep him ranged and beware SS Fsmash. It out ranges most of what we have and kills super early. 0

Mario: his cape can create a glitch when we get hit by it when we reappear (with farore's) while in ledge grab frames. we'll get "pushed" underneath the stage but hang onto something under the stage. don't jump, just climb up.

Lucas is now up

I've played against Lucases a LOT . . . but not recently.

For things we should watch out for: Fsmash and Usmash . . . honestly that's the biggest thing.
Our horrible horrible recovery means that we can often make ourselves easy targets for his Usmash. And we can't interrupt it by landing on him either because it has so much priority.
Most of the match will be a jockeying for positioning between us and them and whenever we space improperly, we can eat an Fsmash from Lucas and it hurts.

His special attacks aren't big issues really, but don't bother reflecting PKfire . . . it has enough kickback on lucas and a short enough range that it probably won't hit him if it gets reflected.

An interesting note on his recovery. If you've played zelda long enough to understand the hitbox of Din's Fire, you can kill lucas's pk thunder without hiting lucas and you'll end his life.

Also, lucas doesn't have the best air game, so, thankfully, lucas isn't going to be taking the fight to the air . . . something zelda hates. his f-air pokes well though.

really this game is ALL about spacing. Lucas has a slightly easier time hitting zelda, but zelda has a slightly easier time killing if she manages to land something big.


I'd say the matchup is just about even. I think that it's 50:50 but on some stages, lucas has an advantage so I could even go as far as 55:45

Bowser vs Zelda is not even. GR shenanigans don't work on Zelda. Zelda can get a lead and run away, forcing Bowser to use his not-so-great approach game. Bring up any other point and I'll try to clarify on it

MrEh said:

Bowser vs Zelda is not even. GR shenanigans don't work on Zelda. Zelda can get a lead and run away, forcing Bowser to use his not-so-great approach game. Bring up any other point and I'll try to clarify on it

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Bowser's a big sexy lizard and Zelda's a slow, skinny female?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6507824&postcount=185

Besides the outdated stage information, this is still relevant.