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COA II vids - Middletown, NJ - ft Ballin4life, Nintendude, Eggers St, Hamburglar

The Star King

The Star King

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...uh, you barely losing?

BTW You kind of hurt your (silly) argument that Fox vs Mario on DL is -3 lol. Unless you think you're significantly better than Nintendude or something.
 
ballin4life

ballin4life

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disproving determinism
in two matches that I lost? Including one that was a 4 stock? And the one that was close was because Nintendude killed himself twice?

The second match is actually a good example of what I was talking about. I go up by 2 stocks early (lucky to not get gimped considering how many times I was off the edge, and also lucky to get some decent combos on Mario, which is usually quite difficult). It goes back and forth for a while, with me continuing to get lucky at avoiding edgeguards. But then he gets some kills where he basically hit me once and gimped. Mario is very good at doing that. Even if I hit him 5x as much as he hits me, I lose. Note also that he got to some ridiculously high percentages in these matches, because it's tough to finish Mario off with just aerials and he is difficult to edgeguard.

I don't think I played well but I don't see how I hurt my argument. I still think Mario is a harder matchup than Pikachu for Fox on DL.
 
hamburglar

hamburglar

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Dec 10, 2007
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agreed. mario is a gimp machine on DL i would like to see you guys replay those matches without stage striking. however, nintendude is just a gimp machine if he's playing to win regardless on the stage.
 
S

SheerMadness

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Fox vs Mario DL seems pretty even to me. Yah he can gimp you really easily. But you can control the stage with lasers and reflect his fireballs. You can edgeguard him pretty effectively too, which you didn't do at all.

Work on the edgeguards and lasers.
 
TANK64

TANK64

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Nice uploads. I enjoyed watching them all.

-but the second GF match was so sad. I cried (no seriously, I cried).
 
ballin4life

ballin4life

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disproving determinism
SheerMadness said:
Fox vs Mario DL seems pretty even to me. Yah he can gimp you really easily. But you can control the stage with lasers and reflect his fireballs. You can edgeguard him pretty effectively too, which you didn't do at all.

Work on the edgeguards and lasers.
Click to expand...
Edgeguard how? @Boom - dtilt will hit but it won't kill really ... although it's still much better than nothing (which is what I was doing)

Also if Mario does a full hop fireball from the right distance then reflecting doesn't work well because you need perfect timing if you want to reflect with a shine cancel, and if you instead decide to reflect on the ground he can run up and hit you.
 
S

SheerMadness

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Downtilt leads to kills. It pops them up where you can hit them again.

You should also be using ledge invincibility vs mario. Grab the ledge right before he up b's and he'll either die because you have the ledge with invincibility or he'll have to up b onto the stage when you can either jump up or just get up and grab/upsmash/aerial.

Have no idea what you mean when you say you can't shine fireballs. Btw I just 10 Fox challenged Nintendude's Mario like 2 weeks ago so yes I know how he plays.
 
SuPeRbOoM

SuPeRbOoM

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if you shine every fireball, he's going to stop fireballing you lol. If you shine his fireballs when he's recovering, he can't upb through them, it's pretty funny.
 
The Star King

The Star King

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ballin4life said:
in two matches that I lost? Including one that was a 4 stock? And the one that was close was because Nintendude killed himself twice?

The second match is actually a good example of what I was talking about. I go up by 2 stocks early (lucky to not get gimped considering how many times I was off the edge, and also lucky to get some decent combos on Mario, which is usually quite difficult). It goes back and forth for a while, with me continuing to get lucky at avoiding edgeguards. But then he gets some kills where he basically hit me once and gimped. Mario is very good at doing that. Even if I hit him 5x as much as he hits me, I lose. Note also that he got to some ridiculously high percentages in these matches, because it's tough to finish Mario off with just aerials and he is difficult to edgeguard.

I don't think I played well but I don't see how I hurt my argument. I still think Mario is a harder matchup than Pikachu for Fox on DL.
Click to expand...
I'm going to have to be honest. I didn't actually watch the matches yet, I just skipped to the end of the second match to see what Boomfan was talking about. My bad.

Anyways, I agree with everything Sheer said. Mario has a really hard time approaching Fox in my experience.
 
Sangoku

Sangoku

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If timing a perfect shine is too hard, just do a non-perfect shine cancel. Quick enough to avoid getting punished and long enough to time it easily.
 
L

Linguini

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I kinda want to get into 64, these matches were tight to watch in person.....is dk any good?

lool if not i gues i'll just play fawks
 
ciaza

ciaza

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SSB64 is very balanced. DK is B tier and fine to play, just like any character. This isn't like Melee or something where if you play Kirby you have practically no chance of winning.
 
Battlecow

Battlecow

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DK is OK. Middle of the tier list (which, like ciaza said, doesn't mean as much as it does in melee), and he doesn't have any unplayably bad matchups- which basically means that yeah, you can win with him. Not enough people main DK, but a lot of people have done really well with characters of his tier and even lower. You'll probably have better luck with a top or high tier character, of course, but if DK is your calling- go for it.
 
The Star King

The Star King

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ballin4life said:
One example is at like 3:46. The fireball comes in too high to do a fast shine (easily), yet he is close enough to hit me if I do a slower shine.
Click to expand...
Dash away a little and shine.

You can also sometimes aerial through a fireball and hit him, like you did at 4:00. Or run under and aerial/utilt him, like you did at 3:22.

BTW, I don't think it's that hard to reflect projectiles with a fast shine, after a little practice. The window isn't THAT small.

Linguini said:
I kinda want to get into 64, these matches were tight to watch in person.....is dk any good?

lool if not i gues i'll just play fawks
Click to expand...
Well-known Melee players wanting to get into Smash 64 gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Anyways, what everyone else said. It won't be as easy as it is with a top tier character, but you can still definitely win.
 
TANK64

TANK64

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Ballin' I know exactally what you mean about full hop fire balls. Maybe I just need to get BETTER.

DK is goood. (and not enough DK mains)
 
Olikus

Olikus

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Great vids. nintendudes mario is ****. Now I really want to attend apex =D
 
Nintendude

Nintendude

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Linguini said:
I kinda want to get into 64, these matches were tight to watch in person.....is dk any good?

lool if not i gues i'll just play fawks
Click to expand...
To echo what others said, DK is a pretty middle of the road character, but in SSB64 the gap between top and middle tier is smaller than in Melee. He has really good gimps, Giant Punch combos, great grab range / back-throw power, and tricky stuff with Uair and up-B. If you ever want to play online shoot me a PM or instant message.
 
L

Linguini

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Hmmm, I see thanks for the input. The problem is I don't have my 64 with me atm but i'll start practicing with nub friends lol. I do like fox a lot, he moves so gracefully, but DK seems more like my type of character.......
 
Olikus

Olikus

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DK gets interesting when you play him for the first tim. Old jungle sayings...

Just watched the friendlies. They was really entertaining. Nintendude obviousle like to show me ya moves, and the dobbel star KO ending on the last match was funny.
 
ciaza

ciaza

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Super cool DK Tier:

Morgen
Superboom
Amasawa
Tacna Estradon

Unordered.
 
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