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PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

Brinzy

Brinzy

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It's not terribly hard to escape it once you've been hit by it enough. You DI it during the freeze frames (not when you're actually getting it, but instead, very, very soon after that) by going up and towards Sheik. I've managed to escape it and only take 10% damage... and having a shocked Sheik is always an advantage, heh.

But yeah, when it's properly spaced and timed, it can hurt; the main thing you want to avoid is the ending blow, which can lead to -1 stock or however much Sheik's full USmash does.

Also, random note, but don't get Dsmashed when you're at a low %, that can potentially do 34% if you're not careful.
 
Levitas

Levitas

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escaping the ftilt lock is not easy, even when expected. The best way is to SDI up and towards her, and hope she doesn't usmash. Escape the turnaround ftilt with an airdodge.

Note that there are 6 frames of hitlag per ftilt, so you have 1/10th of a second to SDI.
 
Gaussis

Gaussis

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I know it isn't easy. Six frames is not a lot of time. I was saying it is easier than if you didn't see it coming. But yeah, still difficult.
 
Gindler

Gindler

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PKNintendo said:
Best Link in the state? Lucky.:bee:
Click to expand...
Ha well in florida we have like 3 yoshi's that are all the "Best Yoshi in Florida" :laugh:
So I usually don't take those statements seriously.

But yeah, I rarely play sheiks. I play her jokingly and ONLY during friendlies and I think that's what most others do. But just in case I don't want to be caught off guard when a Zelda getting destroyed goes sheik on me.
 
Uffe

Uffe

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Sheik f-tilt lock can't lock Ness at 0-20%. With DI anyway. When he reaches either close or exactly at 30% then Sheik can use her lock on Ness until he's at 50%. But don't think that's all Sheik is going to use. Most likely she'll use her Needle Storm, chain when least expected, a few grabs here and there, stuff like that.
 
PKSkyler

PKSkyler

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I fought a good Shiek and had some major problems, it was my first time fighting shiek too. Anyway ftilt lock sucks and I wasnt killed by Shiek`s moves really though, when my % got high Shiek would transform to Zelda and KO me with a smash attack because its completly fresh, then go back into Shiek.
 
Brinzy

Brinzy

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Well yeah, Sheik won't always use ftilt lock on you. It's mainly there to rack up damage + Usmash, which then sets you up for the damage area where you can get smacked away and gimped.

Best thing to do? Well, do what you always do - fair it.
 
M

Masky

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Gindler said:
Ha well in florida we have like 3 yoshi's that are all the "Best Yoshi in Florida" :laugh:
So I usually don't take those statements seriously.

But yeah, I rarely play sheiks. I play her jokingly and ONLY during friendlies and I think that's what most others do. But just in case I don't want to be caught off guard when a Zelda getting destroyed goes sheik on me.
Click to expand...
Everyone is the best at something in Florida! That way we're all special :)
 
Gindler

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Come to think of it i've been caught in that lock before...it sucks, and right when you're about to get out they Utilt for a lil' extra damage :ohwell:

Masky said:
Everyone is the best at something in Florida! That way we're all special :)
Click to expand...
Ha, oh so true :chuckle:
 
V

viparagon

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Why is mario 50/50?

Ness is one of mario's easiest matchups. once Ness is off the stage, a cape or fludd is all it takes to seriously screw with PKT2, and with proper edgegaurding, its easy to keep ness from getting back on the stage. Watch Fear's life of a plumber vids.
 
Gaussis

Gaussis

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It is like that because they have not reached a general agreement. Ness players argue that Ness would just recover using his double jump and PSI magnet or even recover from under the stage to avoid the gimping. There is more too and it is quite long so might as well take a look.
 
PKNintendo

PKNintendo

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viparagon said:
Why is mario 50/50?

Ness is one of mario's easiest matchups. once Ness is off the stage, a cape or fludd is all it takes to seriously screw with PKT2, and with proper edgegaurding, its easy to keep ness from getting back on the stage. Watch Fear's life of a plumber vids.
Click to expand...
1. Watch PKT2 in 2 minutes OR read EB360 guide on PK thunder recovering. I've played TONS of Mario's, and I've spiked/edge guarded them more, than they egdeguarded me. Hell even Simna argued about Fludd not being that useful on Ness, and he only argues on certain situations.


PS: You kinda main Mario so...
I mean EVERYONE seconds Ness, and thinks their main can beat him. Edrees with his Peach, and you with your Mario. Doesn't anyone second Luigi!:dizzy:
 
Uffe

Uffe

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viparagon said:
Why is mario 50/50?

Ness is one of mario's easiest matchups. once Ness is off the stage, a cape or fludd is all it takes to seriously screw with PKT2, and with proper edgegaurding, its easy to keep ness from getting back on the stage. Watch Fear's life of a plumber vids.
Click to expand...
Not to sound like an ***, because that's probably how I'm going to come off of, but his Mario doesn't look all that threatning. I saw so many things the Lucas player could have done to avoid being gimped. I can't say much for the Pit, Olimar and Snake players however since I don't play as them. But anyway I'd say Ness vs Mario is 50/50 because I've fought some pretty challenging Mario's and it's not so much because they were challenging but because his attacks have pretty good priority against Ness' attacks.
 
PKSkyler

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can we cover metaknight? I know he has an advantage ver Ness but i want to find out some ways to beat him....
 
kennypu

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metaknight is real easy to spike, and they get caught in your yoyo tricks a lot(if you know what you're doing). Also, if you get flyed(go the the side), time your fair. They usually run right into it, and you can combo right from that. but they usually get out of it pretty quick xP.
 
PKSkyler

PKSkyler

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kennypu said:
metaknight is real easy to spike, and they get caught in your yoyo tricks a lot(if you know what you're doing). Also, if you get flyed(go the the side), time your fair. They usually run right into it, and you can combo right from that. but they usually get out of it pretty quick xP.
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ah, i didnt use yo-yo much. Or try to spike too much either, i was always too nervous off the edge...


what do i do about the tornado? It stops my PKT and its hard to tail whip. And it gets me a lot.
 
Earthbound360

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U probably shot under him. Aerial PKFs work. Even if u believe NESSBOUNDERs whole "anti-PKF" views, you have to admit PKF has some kickass priority.

Fair is all u need though. Quick, easy to set up, huge range, decent duration, etc.
 
PKSkyler

PKSkyler

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Earthbound360 said:
U probably shot under him. Aerial PKFs work. Even if u believe NESSBOUNDERs whole "anti-PKF" views, you have to admit PKF has some kickass priority.

Fair is all u need though. Quick, easy to set up, huge range, decent duration, etc.
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Im definantly not anti-pkf. I love it!
Probably went under him, since I only had time to shoot a grounded pkf or a short firebound.
 
Gaussis

Gaussis

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Poor NESSBOUNDER. He is really missing out IMO. Anyway, try mixing in PKF in there, regardless of opponent. It works wonders.
 
_clinton

_clinton

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My thoughts on Kirby:

Really *** and annoying...

dair sets up well for one of Kirby's smash attacks most of the time...

Ness can absorb the final cutter...so at least Kirby won't be so annoying with that...

Kirby can combo Ness to a point with his throws...get ready to do an air dodge if he grabs you...

Kirby's bair is almost as annoying as Ness' fair...which is saying a lot ok...

That hammer kills you at low % for the most part...Stone actually does an ok job at protecting him...unlike other slam special moves...I'm pretty sure it is stronger then Bowser Bomb and Yoshi's ground pound...but I'll check it 1st before saying that ok...

Kirby's recovery is good...and he has 2 tools for helping it...his hammer and his stone...
 
PKSkyler

PKSkyler

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well well, kirby.

Watch out for grabs...at low percents, this will be your demise.....it combos very well if your fighting a good kirby. Good kirby`s will approach with grabs or Final Cutter....back up when he goes up, then turn on your PSI magnet or use the baseball bat.

^^^^ the rock is better than bowser bomb and the yoshi thing cause it provides invincibilty (excpet if grabbed) and it has a hitbox on the ground too.

Hammer is real good, kills low, but youll probably only see it in the air. If used in the air, you should air dodge then move back to dodge the second hit, then come with a counter attack.....

hes light, so adjust pk thunder juggling accordigly....always tailwhip since his aerials cancel out the thunders head......... and he dies quicker.

your better in the air then him(but hes still good.) so use that to your advantage....


Inhale leads to swallowcides.Be careful. Kirby probably wont want to your PSI Flash too much. If he does, he`ll probably use it full charged....Just PSI Magnet it or (lol) baseball bat.
 
M

Masky

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PK Thunder juggling won't work in the air because of his down-b and dair. He's a smaller character which means it's harder to hit with fair, PK Fire, etc. I think it's a hard matchup for Ness but I can't really say why, maybe it's just my lack of experience. Don't get grabbed at a low percentage or else it's a free 50% on you. On the bright side, I don't think any Kirby mains would actually try to use PK Flash because most people deem it worthless even though it's not.
 
PKSkyler

PKSkyler

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Masky said:
PK Thunder juggling won't work in the air because of his down-b and dair. .
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It will still work. Dair doesnt matter. You can tailwhip pretty much any aerial...Ive never seen an aerial that stops PKT`s tail. Down B can mess you up bad if you are directly below him, but just make sure you use PKT away from the stone`s range. When he uses stone, just cancel your PKT by hitting it on him, then fire another one if you think hell get out of stone form and be in the air still, or run up and grab him if he lands on the ground

So its tough but not impossible.
 
Criosphinx

Criosphinx

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PK flash will break a rock.

Rock breaks on anything over 30 damage. Kirby players generally may not be aware, and will try to take the flash before they drop rock. Use that opportunity to punish.

Beware of Kirbycide. It's hell to try to recover from that.
 
PKSkyler

PKSkyler

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Criosphinx said:
PK flash will break a rock.

Rock breaks on anything over 30 damage. Kirby players generally may not be aware, and will try to take the flash before they drop rock. Use that opportunity to punish.

Beware of Kirbycide. It's hell to try to recover from that.
Click to expand...
Nice! I didnt know that.Should be helpful...hmmm...so would it break from a PKT2, you think?
 
Levitas

Levitas

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DI his foward throws up and away to avoid the fthrow > Uair, and that'll take care of most of his throw combo game. He'll only be able to get it off below ~20% or so.
 
thesage

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His d-throw combos Ness as well but it can be di'd out of. I forgot the direction though...

Stay the **** away from the ledge.

I've fought some really good kirby's but I don't really know what to say about the matchup >_>; Watch out for f-smash it's deadly, but it's predictable.

I think this matchup is in Ness' favor. I've never been beaten by a Kirby who was a worse player than me. The only one I don't think I could ever win against is Chudat.

Ness' running attack also outprioritizes mk's tornado. PkT2 does NOT.
 
Uffe

Uffe

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You guys and your Stone. Did you know that the tail of PK Thunder can sustain Kirby's Stone in mid air? Now I'm not exactly 100% on this, but from my battles with Kirby, I've done this twice. The first time was shocking and I was actually able to save myself from getting hit. The second time was recent and the same thing happened. Anybody with a brother or sister should try this out to just make sure this is fool proof.

Now like thesage, I've come across some pretty good Kirby players and some pretty bad ones. The good ones were tough, obviously. If the one playing Kirby knows how to use him correctly, he can be a tough opponent. I've said this before and I'll say it again, Kirby is hard. Luckily for Ness mains the only projectile that Kirby's got is his Final Cutter. That can be seen and you can absorb the beam that fires out of the blade. The truly bad thing is when you're off the stage and Kirby's doing his uair, wall of pain or whatever it's called, drilling at you with his dair or Kirbyciding.

However, while Kirby may be a threat off the stage, so is Ness. Ness can dair Kirby fairly easily. If that sounds correct. Anyway, aside from my grammar, if Kirby is risky, he can try and Kirbycide the on coming Ness or he can take both his and Ness' life by using Final Cutter which would probably be the dumbest thing any person would do.

@ Masky: PKT2 doesn't make Meta Knight flinch when he's using his Tornado. The PKT2 most likely will go through its process and then if the Tornado is still spinning Ness will get hurt. The only way PKT2 can work on Meta Knight's Tornado is when the Tornado is nearly finished. At least that's what the outcome was when I attacked Meta Knight using his Tornado.
 
thesage

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Wat? Kirby is easy. Fox is a harder matchup than Kirby. I'm pretty sure it's in advantage of Ness. 60-40 Ness at worst.
 
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