Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

GG as in? and true, utilt isnt that great against spring

Gf2tw said:

GG as in? and true, utilt isnt that great against spring

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Good going. :O

Yeah I am back to clean the place up lol. Yesterday went alright lol. Thanks for keeping this going mate.

*New challenger approaching.*

Hey guys what's up? I'm sorry I haven't been helping this thread before, but now that it looks like the Sonic boards is in desperate need of help, I'll be doing my part once we go into the next character (Pikachu I believe). Whatever is needed, to fix typos, add my 2 cents, challenge people to Wi-Fi and get hands-on experience, I'm your new Hedgehog! Let's show the world the Real Super-Awesome Power of Teamwork! (Sonic Heroes lololol)

Bump de Wump Need the new page.

I really really need that new page. Honestly.

PIKACHU - Character Matchup 9

Introduction

Unveiled at E3 2006, Pikachu is a character in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Visually, Pikachu has barely changed at all from its Melee design, only being larger and touched up slightly. It has all of its moves from the first two games. It is in the High Tier and holds 12th position overall, making it much closer to its original Top Tier status in Super Smash Bros. (#1) as opposed to its Low Tier status in Melee (#16). However, Pikachu now has a higher standing in brawl than in melee.

Behaviour:

A real Pika main uses the power of endless syllable repitition to slowly irritate you into an explosive rage-filled state of insanity so that you kill youself.

By the way, Don't bother trying to gimp Pikachu. you might as well try gimping MK, he'd probably be easier. Pikachu's recovery is simply too fast, and with headbutt, you can guarentee he'll have enough jumps to get around you.

-The Halloween Captain

Uair causes problems for a lot of sonic's approaches. And being that it starts and ends quickly it's very spammable.

Uair also sets up pika's other aerials. Even if sonic uses a spring out of an ill-timed follow-up... pika still stays fairly safe afterwards.
-Scissor Sir


Commonly Used Moves:
D-Smash: The most annoying smash in the game. Learn to avoid running into it and learn to DI out of it when you do...otherwise that is way to much extra damage to take.

Thunder: Unfortunately due to the pure linear-ness of Sonics Spring, this is going to gimp theheck out of you if you are not careful. So please watch your timing and plan your air dodges.

QAC: Quick attack cancel, from what I know it's simply to cancel their up b into a variety of different moves. Be careful, it's great for spacing and quick damage.

F-smash: Good range and a sweetspot near the rats cheeks. Pretty solid kill move.

U-tilt: Can get you into little locks at low %'s. So yeah. Bad.



How to Win:
Succinctly put, you'll want to get Pikachu airborne in one way or another. The reason for this is that Pikachu's ground game shuts down Sonic's due to better range and priority. If you must fight Pikachu on the ground for a period of time (which you will), tilts and well-timed SH side aerials will be your best friends- albeit not very reliable ones.
I cannot tell you how many Sonics have abused their Side-B/Down-B only to get my f-smash or thunder in their face. Even Pikachu's t-jolt and skullbash can stop Sonic's fast special attacks. So please don't be like the grounded Sonics I've faced or you'll only struggle harder.

It is logical that in a fight between an experienced Sonic and experienced Pikachu, both players will do everything in their power to keep the battle where their strengths lie. This would be the air for Sonic, and the ground for Pikachu.

If you can get a Pikachu airborne, all your aerials can out-prioritize your foe Pikachu's. So you see how imperative it is to keep the battle in the air whenever you can.
Now, this part will be tough for you to put things mildly. Try to bait Pikachu to approach you. If that doesn't work, you're not out of luck. Sonic's specials are not great for attacking Pikachu. Yet, they can be used for approaching from the air. Just be wary of how dangerous it is to be directly above Pikachu and time approaches well.

In this match-up, you can expect Pikachu to use QAC less than usual due to Sonic's overall speed. If Pikachu does QAC, he'll often be attempting the deadly QAC > Thunder. Therefore, it is crucial that you are constantly moving.

Just do what you can to get that Pikachu airborne and you'll have a MUCH better chance at victory!

-Mister E

also, pika is basically a cut above sonic in just about every area, from camping, to grabs (he can CG with forward throw and down throw in some situations fyi) to airials to straight up power
the best option is usually to run away and force him to try and camp with thunderbolt.
if he shoots them on the ground (most wont) spinshott to whatever. and if they shoot them from the air (most likely) you can just run up, and forward air right through the bolt and hit pika with the rest of the f-air.
f-tilt, and down tilt, are good for spacing the stupid rat, and a good damage racker at the beginning of a stock is close range d-tilt X 2/3 to grab. Baiting whiffed forward smashes is lovely, it equals lag city for pika. when in down smash, DI, and SDI up as much and as fast as possible, you should never take more than 7-9 dam. from pika down smash

-da K.I.D.

Pikachu has a lot of multi hit moves with high priority, so that's gonna stop Sonic when Pikachu lands them. Pikachu's multi hit moves are fair, bair, and dsmash. Dsmash will stop any ground approach you have when timed properly. Just spamming dsmash is asking to get punished by Sonic, but since Pikachu's dsmash is near instant, it's a good defense.
...spacing is key for Sonic, perhaps more so than in other matchups. He needs to take care to stay just out of his range. Like, spam ftilt, lol. I find ftilt actually to be your best spacing tool here. Also, remember that Sonic isn't the most succeptible to "combos", because spring escapes stuff very easily if not done frame perfect.

Ohyah, DON'T BE SPRING HAPPY.

Pikachu's mind:
- lolol look he tried to spring out of my combo!
- *starts combo agai-* JK
- PIKAAAAAAAAA
- Sonic springs and gets hit by thunder while still vulnerable to hits.

Or alternatively:
- Sonic springs and Pikachu delays a thunder and Sonic airdodges into it.

-Tenki

What this matchup boils down to is who can be the safest. I would have to say it's pika

The problem some pikas face when fighting sonic is they still try to force out their killing moves even when the sonic is playing a heavy punish game.
If you're playing that type of sonic, you're rarely going to land a fsmash. (I'm not saying it's impossible in the matchup)
One thing that makes this matchup really hard for sonic I would say is pika's reverse uair (I'm not just talking about RAR)

Uair causes problems for a lot of sonic's approaches. And being that it starts and ends quickly it's very spammable.

Uair also sets up pika's other aerials. Even if sonic uses a spring out of an ill-timed follow-up... pika still stays fairly safe afterwards.

If you intercept a sonic with fair before he touches the ground, you can try to set up an utilt, uair, dsmash (depending on their reaction time) or usmash

Most of the time sonic will be looking for different angles to come in from.
Uair alone doesn't leave many for him sadly...
A rising reverse uair isn't even punished by a running shield on sonic's part.

And minus sonic's specials, pika has better air mobility which helps avoid an aerial retaliation on pika's uair by sonic.
I would say on an average or below average skill level the match is 60-40 pika. When you start looking at above average, i'd say it's 55-45 pika.
Sonic's speed does force pika to use safer moves a lot more than usual. Luckily for pika, one of his safest moves is a pain in the a** for sonic to handle.


Recommended Stages:


Matchup Summary:

Glad I came along huh? You would've gone insane if you had to quadruple post XD.

Is there a Fox topic in the Fox Boards for Sonic?

dude, we already finished Fox.

We had a Fox main come in and everything.

It's about neutral in gameplay, since both characters are played as punishment characters - Fox punishes hard when he gets chances, but Sonic punishes fluidly. So it's kinda balanced out since Sonic gives few chances to be punished, and Fox breaks out of followups pretty well. But stat for stat, it's more 55-45 or 60-40 in Fox's favor.

dude i know!

But i need a top of page to put him So i can put all the relevant stuff in there.

What was the matchup Summary so i can update the OP pic?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5524601#post5524601

That was where it started.

I had a joke picture for Fox though.

I don't think anyone really wrote one lol.

hmm wud u mind puttin the fox post on this page there? then i can make this page some1 els?

sexy. u had to keep the pic didnt u?

Okay, I copy and pasted your old quote, and filled in the information. Still needs some more stage info.

Feel free to create the Pikachu thread.

already done mate.

Heading to the Pika boards now.

On a somewhat related administrative note, you should use post links instead of page links, since some people don't use the same post # per page.

To get the post link, just quote and preview the post at the top of the page/where the discussion begins, then right click the little [>] box next to the URL for the post.

Ok then. I may get onto that later. For now, let's just get Pikachu rolling. I'm gonna leave for a bit and work on an assignment. Good luck with it.

Ahh Pikachu. I'm not sure about match-up number because I havent played a good pikachu in a while. But use your speed to punished a missed thunder. SDI up out of dsmash. Umm. QAC is cool, but not when used against you, so keep on the move =P. Watch out for springing too much, cuz you dont want to eat a thunder at the top of your UpB, XD. Umm Idk what else to say right noww...

I can already tell you that Sonic is at a disadvantage here, be it major or not I'm not sure, but Pikachu has a lot of things gonig for it Vs Sonic.

Thunder is probably the best spammable move in the game. Not only does it go through a whole line vertically and does a considerable amount of damage, but get too careless with stuff like Spring Jumping and you will get Star K.O.ed. It also has a hitbox going far to Pikachu's sides if Thunder hits it, and can be used as a wall to prevent Sonic from recklessly trying to get back on stage.

QAC can probably mess up Sonic's timing on moves, Semi-lock him in place, and get pikachu around quite fast.

Pikachu has a lot of disjointed hitboxes it can use, and since Sonic doesn't have too many attacks going quite a distance, that is going to be problematic. Dsmash covers about as much area as if there were Three Pikachus side by side and laying down, and I'm not sure how Sonic can counter this if he isn't already caught within the hitboxes.

Fsmash has a sweetspot somewhere I believe near Pikachu's cheeks, again not too many things Sonic can do to match it's range if he isn't hit.

Usmash will kill pretty early assuming the Pikachu hits it as the earleir frames and hasn't diminished it.

I think it's Utilt can can be spammed to juggle at low %ages.

Don't expect Skull Bash to be used, but don't let it throw you off either.

Thunderjolt is a nice projectile, Pikachu and move around in the air if it uses it, but at least you can easily powershield TJ.

Nair hits all around him, I'm not entirely sure of it's properties though, like if it has a Sex-Kick attribute to it just like Sonic's Nair, or just how powerful it is, but I'm sure compared to Sonic dpeneding on how each other are placed, Pikachu's Nair will outprioritize Sonics.

Fair is a major disjointed hitbox, again works like Sonic's Fair but instead has an electric effect to it (which maybe can be SDIed out of), and probably of course covers more distance than Sonic's Fair.

I hate Dair, it can bang it's head on the ground for a major hitbox, and I'm not sure what it does if done in the air and canceled before it hits the ground.

I've never seen a Pikachu use Uair too much, so no comment there.

Bair makes Pikachu Spin in the air, and I think hit on both sides. Nice thing about this is if Pikachu lands before Bair is finished it will have some landing lag behind it. Don't let this catch you offgaurd though, it does have one last hitbox as it hits the ground, so don't go rushing in.

If I had to pick somewhere to take Pikachu, I would try and go to Luigi's place. At least when the Mansion is up it will seriously hamper Pikachu's mobilty as well as making Thunder useless, and TJ isn't too hard to get around.

Feel free to correct me on anything if I'm wrong.

I am a Pika main. Here is My opinion.

Here are some videos of things you can Expect from Pikachu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI4N9gk9t9Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6boOKl674kI

First of all, Pika has a nice projectile, to keep Sonic away, and a nice gimping tool (thunder) to keep Sonic off the stage.

Next is Quick attack Cancel. If you watched the videos, you can see how it can be used:

String into an attack
Stop into a jump
Used to evade
Used to Approach
Used to move quicker
Used for mindgames

This can confuse the best of the best Sonics.

Also, Pika has two chaingrabs which Sonic can fall victim until 30%.
Since Sonic falls at a moderate speed, he can also be trapped into Pika's many Grab combos such as Dthrow, Up tilt Up air.

Even a fast falled fair into a dtilt will work on sonic.

The icing on the cake is that Pikachu out prioritizes sonic. This makes for a bad matchup.

I am lacking in Sonic Knowledge, but from what I DO know, Pikachu has the advantage.

I give Pikachu a 4.5 out of 5 on the difficulty scale.

5ive said:

The icing on the cake is that Pikachu out prioritizes sonic. This makes for a bad matchup.

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That's generally true for everyone though.

In the air, I think it's been mentioned in a previous matchup discussion that Sonic can outprioritize alot of Pikachu's aerials.

I'm fine with things outprioritizing on the ground though. How safe is Pikachu usually on landing? (landing lag)

Kinzer said:

Feel free to correct me on anything if I'm wrong.

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im sorry but almost everything you said is either pure assumptions or just plain wrong, might wanna get to fixing that

Tenki said:

That's generally true for everyone though.

In the air, I think it's been mentioned in a previous matchup discussion that Sonic can outprioritize alot of Pikachu's aerials.

I'm fine with things outprioritizing on the ground though. How safe is Pikachu usually on landing? (landing lag)

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Pikachu can use quick attack cancel into any air attack when landing, and can go directly into Dair from a quick attack to the ground. Basically, 0 landing lag when played correctly.

EDIT: Unless your talking about SONIC's landing, in which case Pikachu can take advantage of somewhat-poor horizontal air speed with thunder. Pikachu is one of the few characters with an "off the top" gimp. Possibly the most dangerous character in the game to be above.

I'm not sure what Pikachu can do to Sonic the moment he hits the ground, though. If it were me, I'd probably try to dash into an Up-smash. QAC into Nair might work too.

djbrowny said:

im sorry but almost everything you said is either pure assumptions or just plain wrong, might wanna get to fixing that

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Want to tell me where to start, or why you think I'm wrong? I fought a pretty good Pikachu, and it was quite close. I would at least hope that my experience would be actual.

first, read up about exactly what priority and disjointed hitboxes are.

watch videos of very good pikachus and take note of what attacks they use often, and those they dont (expecially vs your opinion of thunder and uair)

Second, Luigi's Mansion isn't a great counterpick against Pikachu, Nair DOES have the powerful first hit effect, d-air will see extremely rare usage because even Pika-mainers have trouble understanding and utilizing its exact properties, Pikachu has very few disjointed attacks although they are used often, and it is common for Headbutt to be used to reutrn to the stage.

Pika-shock is much more spammable than thunder, BTW.

I know what priority is, that's how often an attack will either clank, overwrite another attack, or not work at all and get canceled. A disjonited hitbox is like an invisible/extra/phaontom hitbox that can distort the actualy range of an attack.

As for Thunder, you would have to be nuts if you're saying that it will either not be used, not spammed, or at the most not used frequentely. Althoguh I must admit Uair is kind of unknown to me.

Edit: Okay, mind explaining to me why Luigi's place isn't a good CP? Maybe BF would be better since the platforms are always there, however I believe that Luigi's seriously hampers the use of Thunder/aerial attacks, and I know that Tjolt will be used to space/aggrovate an approach from the Sonic, don't get me wrong.

As for Skull Bash, I'm sure it will be used to get back on the stage, it's like Luigi's Green Missile, however it probably won't be used for anythign else. If Sonic shields that attack, there's a lot of lag behind it.

The Halloween Captain said:

Pikachu can use quick attack cancel into any air attack when landing, and can go directly into Dair from a quick attack to the ground. Basically, 0 landing lag when played correctly.

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That's about as valid as boxcancelling / instant VSDJ to cancel landing lag.

I'm talking about when Pikachu uses and aerial and lands kind of landing lag. To be able to perform quick attack, the aerial has to finish first.

Tenki said:

That's about as valid as boxcancelling / instant VSDJ to cancel landing lag.

I'm talking about when Pikachu uses and aerial and lands kind of landing lag. To be able to perform quick attack, the aerial has to finish first.

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PWNED! Nah I'm kidding =P

If I'm not mistaken, all of pikachu's aerials have some sort of landing lag. I might be wrong though, so please correct me. I dont think there are any autocancel frames, at least judging from this list:


http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169171

Although that might be wrong because I think Sonic's Uair autocancels XD.

cant help you with pikachu i have no experience against/with him. But yea, his D-air has a lot of landing lag, and so does his f-air. about the same lag as sonics f-air

Tenki said:

That's about as valid as boxcancelling / instant VSDJ to cancel landing lag.

I'm talking about when Pikachu uses and aerial and lands kind of landing lag. To be able to perform quick attack, the aerial has to finish first.

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I can't say I know. I haven't used Pikachu in months. Dair is pretty long, but it's also pretty good because it can be directly QAC'd into. Probably the only air attacks without a lot of landing lag are Uair (because it's fast), Quick Attack (duh), and maybe Nair. The others have some pretty long lag for aerials.

However, I would note that a common approach (for me) is QAC into rising Nair. Pikachu's are not likely to hit the ground with those Aerials unless they're pretty sure they'll hit (QAC'd Dair). I would also note that a good Pikachu can be campier than pit, minus the reflectors, and might never appraoch.

=]

Gf2tw said:

cant help you with pikachu i have no experience against/with him. But yea, his D-air has a lot of landing lag, and so does his f-air. about the same lag as sonics f-air

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No. Pikachu's Fair's landing lag is noticeably shorter than that of Sonic's. However, each of Pikachu's other aerials have considerable landing lag. However again, this won't be a problem for an experienced Pikachu user.

First off, I'd like to refer you to our completed Sonic match-up thread located here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180431

Now for my 2 cents.
Experienced Sonic vs. Experienced Pikachu.

Succinctly put, you'll want to get Pikachu airborne in one way or another. The reason for this is that Pikachu's ground game shuts down Sonic's due to better range and priority. If you must fight Pikachu on the ground for a period of time (which you will), tilts and well-timed SH side aerials will be your best friends- albeit not very reliable ones.
I cannot tell you how many Sonics have abused their Side-B/Down-B only to get my f-smash or thunder in their face. Even Pikachu's t-jolt and skullbash can stop Sonic's fast special attacks. So please don't be like the grounded Sonics I've faced or you'll only struggle harder.

It is logical that in a fight between an experienced Sonic and experienced Pikachu, both players will do everything in their power to keep the battle where their strengths lie. This would be the air for Sonic, and the ground for Pikachu.

If you can get a Pikachu airborne, all your aerials can out-prioritize your foe Pikachu's. So you see how imperative it is to keep the battle in the air whenever you can.
Now, this part will be tough for you to put things mildly. Try to bait Pikachu to approach you. If that doesn't work, you're not out of luck. Sonic's specials are not great for attacking Pikachu. Yet, they can be used for approaching from the air. Just be wary of how dangerous it is to be directly above Pikachu and time approaches well.

In this match-up, you can expect Pikachu to use QAC less than usual due to Sonic's overall speed. If Pikachu does QAC, he'll often be attempting the deadly QAC > Thunder. Therefore, it is crucial that you are constantly moving.

Just do what you can to get that Pikachu airborne and you'll have a MUCH better chance at victory!

So, I know you're wanting to hear about good counter-picks vs. Pikachu. Ordinarily, Battlefield or Luigi's Mansion WOULD be good choices. As I mentioned above, in this particular match-up, a grounded Sonic = a weak Sonic.
Battlefield and Luigi's Mansion would not give you the luxury of easily initiating aerial combat. Therefore, choose Delfino Plaza or Pokemon Stadium (Melee). I'd imagine those stages should eliminate a few of the advantages Pikachu has over Sonic in this match-up.

Overall: I'd say this match-up is between 60/40 and 65/35 in Pikachu's favor.
Summary: Aerial combat or you're toast!

I truly hope I helped you understand how to take on the electric rodent from Hell.

Mr E, that's very helpful :D thanks for posting that here and correcting me.

Thanks for the input Mister E.
The only objectional thing you wrote was that Pika's fair has less lag than Sonic's fair. I doubt Sonic will ever actually use a laggy fair ever, because he can shorthop it with zero landing lag.

As for the match-up itself, I think it's fair to say that it's 40:60 Pika's favour :\
I only have limited knowledge of this match-up, but agree with things said so far. It is important that Sonic gets Pika in the air, but people are making out that a ground game is impossible. Sonic's ftilt, if I'm remembering correctly, outranges all of Pika's moves other than fsmash. What would one do if faced against a Sonic who kept running/spinshotting at you and ftilting you? Sure, you can use fsmash, but I doubt you'll want to use it every time because you won't want to stale it out as I understand it's one of Pikachu's main killing moves.
Speaking of spinshot, it's important that it's used CAREFULLY. Sure, it helps get past Thunderjolt spam, but if you underestimate the distance it's taking you, then you're going to end up above Pika, and that's No Good.
Obviously, once you get Pika into the air, it's Sonic's game. Uair (and bair I think) beat out everything of Pikachu's. Being able to keep him aerial is important.
If you're playing a Thunder/dsmash happy Pikachu, use this to your advantage. Bait them out with SCSD, or a shield cancelled ASC. They're pretty easy to punish after, as Pikachu's dsmash as far as I know has low priority towards the end of it, and Thunder has punishable ending lag.
Considering you might be overusing bair if you're keeping the game aerial, killing still shouldn't be much of a problem. Considering Pikachu is light weight, a stutterstepped fsmash will be killing Pikachu from the centre of Final Destination with full DI at about 120%~. Don't neglect dsmash either.
I don't like the sound of Luigi's Mansion that much. After the house is destroyed there's very little in this level actually helping you. Call me silly, but I like taking this match to Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
I wish I had more match-up experience against a Pikachu really.

That's weird.

I usually play grounded vs Pikachu.

He's just soo grabbable when he's doing anything slower than jabbing lol.

Wow it seems like all of Sonic's matchups are in his disadvantage . But yea, Sonic vs Pikachu is a rare match

=]

I was talking about the lagtime that occurs when Sonic and Pikachu Fair into the ground.
There IS lagtime for Sonic, as he does a bounce-spin then gets back on his feet. Pikachu just lands on his side and gets back up slightly more quickly.

Tenki, the Sonics I play don't tend to grab me more than a few times a match (even when they try to grab much more). Play better Pikachus, lol.

And yvw for the input. I love responding to other boards' character match-up threads when the topic is Pikachu.

I don't know how long it's been since I've played a sonic with Pikachu, last competent Sonic I've played was dNes, but I didn't use pikachu then. I'll say what I know from before though, Pikachu has a lot of multi hit moves with high priority, so that's gonna stop Sonic when Pikachu lands them. Pikachu's multi hit moves are fair, bair, and dsmash. Dsmash will stop any ground approach you have when timed properly. Just spamming dsmash is asking to get punished by Sonic, but since Pikachu's dsmash is near instant, it's a good defense.

Pika's fair actually leads into combos such as utilt, dtilt, and ftilt. Utilt by far is his best juggling choice and that leads to a uair and/or nair.

Bair as surprising priority.

I'd say since Pikachu can fight sonic in a close quarter combat as well as pressure him at a long distance, Sonic suffers a disadvantage. ;o I need to play a sonic again with pika though.

Ussi said:

I don't know how long it's been since I've played a sonic with Pikachu, last competent Sonic I've played was dNes, but I didn't use pikachu then. I'll say what I know from before though, Pikachu has a lot of multi hit moves with high priority, so that's gonna stop Sonic when Pikachu lands them. Pikachu's multi hit moves are fair, bair, and dsmash. Dsmash will stop any ground approach you have when timed properly. Just spamming dsmash is asking to get punished by Sonic, but since Pikachu's dsmash is near instant, it's a good defense.

Pika's fair actually leads into combos such as utilt, dtilt, and ftilt. Utilt by far is his best juggling choice and that leads to a uair and/or nair.

Bair as surprising priority.

I'd say since Pikachu can fight sonic in a close quarter combat as well as pressure him at a long distance, Sonic suffers a disadvantage. ;o I need to play a sonic again with pika though.

Click to expand...

very good but what about the DI mixed in with the throws?

This is a hard matchup for Sonic on a few levels. Firstly Pikachu can really capitalize on any of Sonic's basic mistakes (abuse of rolling, abuse of spring) better than almost any other character.

If you can correct your own mistakes then you still have to deal with good speed, great range, great priority and a great projectile.

Enough has been said all ready on the importance of getting Pika into the air, I was wondering what people thought was the best approach for this, since Sonic has a problem with him on the ground? We can't just rely on psyche outs and slip ups all the time.


ASC seems like it could be the best for this. I'm not sure, but I believe it can come in over most of Pikachu's attacks. Also it can always be shield canceled for the fore mentioned psyche outs.

Thoughts?

I'm quite unsure about this matchup. As usual, on paper its prolly 60:40, but IDK. I realllyyy don't think pikachu's ground game is so much superiors to Sonic, because on most cases Sonic outranged pika. Also, if your opponents are dong too much Spindash/Spincharge Mister-E, then you really are prolly not playing that good of a Sonic, or at least one that doesn't know the matchup well. SideB should be used only for possible lablock setups or for its invincibility frames. Down B works more for ASC. It will clang with most anything from an appropriate distance though. Thunder has ending lag that SOnic can punish quite easly with a grab thanks to his speed, and even dsmash, if timed appropriately. QAC is my biggest worry honestly, but just as Sonic might have more trouble landing hits/grabs on a pikachu who concstantly QACs, A pikachu who often uses QAC will have trouble landing hits on Sonic. I think SOnics Utilt might serve well to stop QAC'd aerials. Umm yea.