Sonic The Hedgehog: Community Matchup thread

[thecatinthehat]

I did a shorthop Dair out of shield and killed a Falco. It was hawt.

I just pulled the same thing today, no joke

 

[aeghrur]

You'd think Jab would be good out of OoS because of it's 3 frame start up.

 

[Tenki]

Its range is too small in most cases.

Anyway, back to Fox, please?

 

[da K.I.D.]

to verify my skill with fox, i will say that i can perfectly autocancel SHf-airs all of the time.
lol
seriously i can, its just funny that i feel i have to prove myself

anyway.
although ive never played the match from either direction, i will say that i cant see it being in fox's favor. proly 50-50 but not in foxs favor, fox is a big combo pplayer and spring really kills that idea.

also.... all the other stuff that roy and tenki said

 

[Tenki]

I'd cite having played with samboner, but our connection wasn't exactly the best, and it's hard to tell how much of our fights was player skill or matchup-related.

 

[Boxob]

I'd cite having played with samboner, but our connection wasn't exactly the best, and it's hard to tell how much of our fights was player skill or matchup-related.

Tenki, your connection is Horiiible.

I wouldn't take anything you say based off of Wifi to heart, ever.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Tenki, your connection is Horiiible.

I wouldn't take anything you say based off of Wifi to heart, ever.

Word? I have an OK connection with him.

 

[Tenki]

Tenki, your connection is Horiiible.

I wouldn't take anything you say based off of Wifi to heart, ever.

My home connection was faster over the summer, before we got some stupid phone thing that connects to the router.

and, alot of the really good matches were done from my dorm connection, which was supergood. D;

 

[M@v]

I'd cite having played with samboner, but our connection wasn't exactly the best, and it's hard to tell how much of our fights was player skill or matchup-related.

eehhhhh samboner. Im not saying he isnt good, but I've played a couple people both online and offline, and there is definitely a difference. That difference can be good or bad. I just think that the skill level if someone that plays mainly online is controversial. The spot dodge dsmash Samboner loves to do with fox works no where near as well offline.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Approaching from the ground seems a cool idea. Spinshotting a lot will probably make you eat a lot of nairs.
Anyway, should we throw rough estimations for numbers up. So far, we've had :

Myself : 50:50
M@V : 40:60/35:65

We need more discussion though. I just don't know how to analyse this match-up at all :\

 

[M@v]

Approaching from the ground seems a cool idea. Spinshotting a lot will probably make you eat a lot of nairs.
Anyway, should we throw rough estimations for numbers up. So far, we've had :

Myself : 50:50
M@V : 40:60/35:65

We need more discussion though. I just don't know how to analyse this match-up at all :\

I have only played one or two good sonics. This is one of my least experienced matchups...so I wouldn't take what I say as law >_>. But what I have seen, 6:4 fox seems about right....

 

[Camalange]

I have only played one or two good sonics. This is one of my least experienced matchups...so I wouldn't take what I say as law >_>. But what I have seen, 6:4 fox seems about right....

Hey, maybe we could do a Wi-Fi match sometime. I know Wi-Fi is gay, but at least we can try to get a general idea of the matchup, and we're both from PA so the lag shouldn't be too bad. I've played some decent Foxes and I'm convinced it's at least an even match up. I'm not saying I'm amazing or anything, but I'm no push over.

 

[Tenki]

I got to play another Fox today online, so I got to pit move against move a bit.

U-tilt has a .. weird hitbox apparently. It's disjointed at the front.. lol

if D-air is used as anything other than a WOP (in other words, if it's approaching but not retreating), it's shieldgrabbable. If it makes contact with you, at a mid-high%, he can combo smashes into it. SDI away from him before the landing hit and you can avoid a followup attack


You should be able to punish Fox's landing lag on his missed aerials (except for N-air, and arguably, B-air, since it finishes if started instantly during shorthop) with tilts, dash attack, etc.

 

[Napilopez]

I would go with 50:50 or 55:45 in fox's advantage, although people would then kill me because I find falco easier than fox >_>.

I just don't see what either character has substantially over the other. Yea, fox is better at killing, but Sonic is better at gimping him. Yea, fox can combo to death, but Sonic can escape combos well, and can combo decently himself(not to mention foxs fall speed makes him easier to combo into). Sonic's Uair outprioritizes fox's Dair, at least from the second hit, but the Dair come out before the second hit if both are initiated at the same time. Sonic and fox are equal in the air, although some would argue fox is better. Foxs aerials in general come out quicker, but Sonic's are more disjointed(Bair and Uair). Fox is quick, sonic is quicker. Sonic can kill fox(he's actually one of the easier chars to land a kill move on IMO, because foxs range is about equal to Sonic for most moves, and sonic actually outranges him on some), but fox can kill sonic more easily. (Usmash kills Sonic at 93% with No DI on FD I believe).

What about counterpicks and bans? FD is neutral for this matchup I'd say, perhaps slightly to the aid of Sonic because laser doesn't reach all the way across FD(although i don't know why the chars would be so far apart anyways), and because It gives Sonic much more room to navigate around. Any stage with low ceilings would probably in foxs advantage because of that gosh darn usmash. Would lylat be a good CP choice for Sonic? I find its platforms easier to navigate around than say battlefield's, and fox would be more succeptible to stage gimps here.

 

[Zhamy]

U-tilt has a .. weird hitbox apparently. It's disjointed at the front.. lol

Hits on Frame 3 in front and in back.

if D-air is used as anything other than a WOP (in other words, if it's approaching but not retreating), it's shieldgrabbable. If it makes contact with you, at a mid-high%, he can combo smashes into it. SDI away from him before the landing hit and you can avoid a followup attack

This is untrue, SDI will not let you escape from an Usmash or a Dsmash. You can, however, SDI away from a jab, although you quite literally need perfect timing to pull it off. If it was that easy to get out of Fox's Dair combos, he'd be ranked much lower on the tier list.

 

[ShadowLink84]

All of Fox's aerals are committed.
So if he lands one while you are shielding grab and Dthrow then chase accordingly.
That is one of his main weak points.
He just has no true means of approach and those he has are committed and tend to result in punishment if the opponent hasn't been made open to an attack.

Also despite what people often say fox cannot combo into everything after his Dair.
After his Dair he can jab, grab and use some other move(I don't remember off the top of my head) before you can shield.

On the ground Ftilt and Dtilt are very good weapons.
They are quick, and have good range. Fsmash is the only one with comparable range and it hurts so becareful.

his offstage game is lesser than Sonics because despite him having good aerials, he does not have the aerial speed and he has incredible fastfall speed and a subpar recovery.
He is by no means going to die easily (he can double jump a air to gain height and shine stall but they shouldn't be a major issue)


IMO the matchup feels even if not 55:45 for Sonic.
Primarily because he can punish Fox very well and pressure.
offstage he is also in danger.

However, his KO ability is much greater and his Dair causes a good amount of damage especially considering what it can lead to.
his shine is not as deadly but it can be dangerous.

 

[Napilopez]

Forgot to mention that as Tenki implied, they are both character that are very much based on punishment, and both characters that are relatively weak on creating opening like some other characters can. However, once one mistake is made, both of these chars can penalize strongly. So in this sense, they are fundamentally even.

Also, about fox's fsmash, it has alot of "range" but its not really disjointed, which is why It doesn't bother me as much. And its much easier to see coming than Usmash IMO. Sonic's ftilt I'm pretty sure will clang with it, after which you can punish fine.

SHFairs and Shuffled Bairs are quite nice for Sonic in this matchup XD

 

[Tenki]

This is untrue, SDI will not let you escape from an Usmash or a Dsmash. You can, however, SDI away from a jab, although you quite literally need perfect timing to pull it off. If it was that easy to get out of Fox's Dair combos, he'd be ranked much lower on the tier list.

Hm...

Well, I didn't move Fox when I was trying SDI + reaction comparisons, but from what I saw, it looked like Sonic and Fox shielded at about the same time. I'll look into it more later.

I do know from fighting that other Fox that if it gets all its hits in, the 'ouch stun' should be enough for you to carry on with your combo.

 

[Dark Sonic]

This is untrue, SDI will not let you escape from an Usmash or a Dsmash. You can, however, SDI away from a jab, although you quite literally need perfect timing to pull it off. If it was that easy to get out of Fox's Dair combos, he'd be ranked much lower on the tier list.

I think he's talking about SDIing during the drill to avoid the last few hits. You'd be out of stun before Fox could do his smashes, since you would've avoided the last few hits of the dair.

That' just speculation though, I haven't really tested it, but I think that's what Tenki was getting at.

 

[Napilopez]

I think he's talking about SDIing during the drill to avoid the last few hits. You'd be out of stun before Fox could do his smashes, since you would've avoided the last few hits of the dair.

That' just speculation though, I haven't really tested it, but I think that's what Tenki was getting at.

I think so as well. I mean if you can SDI out of tornado and meta Fair...

 

[Tenki]

I think he's talking about SDIing during the drill to avoid the last few hits. You'd be out of stun before Fox could do his smashes, since you would've avoided the last few hits of the dair.

That' just speculation though, I haven't really tested it, but I think that's what Tenki was getting at.

that one.

 

[Fenrir VII]

edit: Please refrain from mocking other players/boards.
I don't want this to devolve into the POS that was the Lucario-Sonic "discussion" - and if you do that after this post, I'm reporting you.

Laser is a bait / move refresher. Damaging is probably the least of its uses.

Fox's U-smash is a butt.

D-air can be really dangerous.

What's really cool is that if you're awesome, you can consistently B-air Fox out of his illusion. Had some really flashy matches the other day against some Fox player where he'd try to illusion back on stage and I'd hit him with B-air, then B-air (reverse launch) - then he tried one more time from the opposite side of the level and got F-smashed for the kill.

Check out this post, from the Fox boards.....

I'm somewhat annoyed by how this is taken in a respectful manner, but people just discard it when it comes to Sonic.

This post is basically true. Laser is an annoying little gun that refills usmashes... it's useful.

Anyways, you quoted my post. lol. For the record, it, and I, are not taken in a respectful manner. I'm treated as a Fox fanboy who is delusional and overrates his character. : / I just said he does really well against the top tier, and people can't handle it.
And yes, a lot of it does apply to Sonic.

The Fox vs Sonic on our matchup thread was just a preliminary number... Foxes haven't gotten to really discussing it all that much yet, so it's definitely not final. Just fyi.

Both characters kinda suffer from "wtf is this character" syndrome in this match... so it makes it really hard to discuss correctly. Sonic has some amazing mixups due just to his speed and cross overs on shield, but if he gets lazy at all, Fox can punish quite well.

Another thing to note, Fox's recovery is actually VERY adaptable... so it's very hard to punish when done correctly. He has a lot of options when recovering... MUCH moreso than Falco, due to his actually HAVING a firefox.

I just wanted to add some input. I can't really put a number on the match, as I have limited Sonic experience...so it would be unfair of me to do so... Dark Sonic play me more. : )

 

[Tenki]

{1} Anyways, you quoted my post. lol. For the record, it, and I, are not taken in a respectful manner. I'm treated as a Fox fanboy who is delusional and overrates his character. : / I just said he does really well against the top tier, and people can't handle it.
And yes, a lot of it does apply to Sonic.

{2} The Fox vs Sonic on our matchup thread was just a preliminary number... Foxes haven't gotten to really discussing it all that much yet, so it's definitely not final. Just fyi.

{3} Both characters kinda suffer from "wtf is this character" syndrome in this match... so it makes it really hard to discuss correctly. Sonic has some amazing mixups due just to his speed and cross overs on shield, but if he gets lazy at all, Fox can punish quite well.

{4} Another thing to note, Fox's recovery is actually VERY adaptable... so it's very hard to punish when done correctly. He has a lot of options when recovering... MUCH moreso than Falco, due to his actually HAVING a firefox.

{1} Oh? lol I kinda put it out there somewhat because of the overwhelmingly good reaction you guys got out of it. If we ever try to bring up "If Sonic plays safely-", "Sonic can punish this move wi-" it gets discarded as though the person defending Sonic is delusional and believes he should be top tier.

{2} That's somewhat nice to know lol. We're still kind of mistrusting after the "Isn't Fox strictly better than Sonic?" thread that popped up in both boards a while ago lol. It brought up alot of... interesting ... responses.

{3} I agree. But... baiting and punishing reactions, unless they're commonly used/major factors in the matchup (like Yoshi U-smash > tornado, RPG > air approaches) are generally discarded from discussions. What I've been trying to get Sonic boards to do lately was to approach matchup discussions on paper ("lolrangepriorityblah") and discard issues of mobility and punishment because they (regardless of how much it factors into our gameplay) are more "player based". So we end up having to 'lie' in a sense, and make it look worse than it might really be lol.

Since it seems that Fox and Sonic are both punishment characters for the most part, maybe a big factor in this matchup should be the 'safety' of common moves.

{4} I don't understand. Fox's up-B still floats in place for a little over a second, then you control it and fly in a single direction. If anything, it's shinestalling that can throw off a player and make it easier to recover, but I've double jumped and B-aired a Fox in post-shine lag once :l

 

[Napilopez]

You bring up good points Fenrir, but I have to comment on your argument. about foxs recovery. As is the case we have seen in many match-up discussions, people who's characters only have average and below average recoveries often have ways to work around this, but this does not negate the fact that in the end, foxs recovery methods are still quite gimpable, especially for Sonic.

As soon as firefox is initiated, fox becomes highly susceptible to bair/fair gimps, and it makes spring gimping exceedingly easy, with very little risk for Sonic. Even if Fox doesn't go for a firefox, his relatively horizontal air acceleration makes it harder for him to avoid spring and Dair gimps. Fox's SideB is still just side B, you can avoid being gimped from it often, but if you try to recover on stage you might eat a smash attack, and if it seems you go for the edge, Sonic's speed allows him to get to the edge rather quickly. Like Tenki said, fox's biggest throw-off is probably shinestalling.

I do realize however, that you can cancel the SideB, but even that might leave you vulnerable against a char as quick on the ground as sonic. This is not to say that fox will always be gimped by Sonic, not at all, but he is still very much in danger of being gimped by Sonikku.

 

[SonicX580]

Characters

Mario: Page 1. This page . From post 11# onwards
Donkey Kong:Page 6 or from post 76 onwards
Link: Page 12 or from post #166 onwards
Samus: Page 17 or post 242# onwards
Zero Suit Samus:Page 24 or post #346 onwards
Marth: Page 26 or post #376 onwards.
Kirby: Page 34 or post #502 onwards.
Fox: Page 43 or post #631 onwards.

​

I agree with Roooy! with the tread.

 

[Napilopez]

Lol, umm ok?

 

[Fenrir VII]

{1} Oh? lol I kinda put it out there somewhat because of the overwhelmingly good reaction you guys got out of it. If we ever try to bring up "If Sonic plays safely-", "Sonic can punish this move wi-" it gets discarded as though the person defending Sonic is delusional and believes he should be top tier.

{2} That's somewhat nice to know lol. We're still kind of mistrusting after the "Isn't Fox strictly better than Sonic?" thread that popped up in both boards a while ago lol. It brought up alot of... interesting ... responses.

{3} I agree. But... baiting and punishing reactions, unless they're commonly used/major factors in the matchup (like Yoshi U-smash > tornado, RPG > air approaches) are generally discarded from discussions. What I've been trying to get Sonic boards to do lately was to approach matchup discussions on paper ("lolrangepriorityblah") and discard issues of mobility and punishment because they (regardless of how much it factors into our gameplay) are more "player based". So we end up having to 'lie' in a sense, and make it look worse than it might really be lol.

Since it seems that Fox and Sonic are both punishment characters for the most part, maybe a big factor in this matchup should be the 'safety' of common moves.

{4} I don't understand. Fox's up-B still floats in place for a little over a second, then you control it and fly in a single direction. If anything, it's shinestalling that can throw off a player and make it easier to recover, but I've double jumped and B-aired a Fox in post-shine lag once :l

1. see 3.

2. Oh yeah... I remember that. That was a funny discussion. I don't believe I was involved with it... it was a while back, though. Nah, there are a lot of fanboys from either side... so yeah.

3. omg, there's another one out there. I'm the same way of thinking. Whereas, I don't believe either Fox or Sonic is top tier... I also choose to debate my point as if a match is happening in a higher level tournament. IE, both players will be put into situations where they have several options....and both players will make mistakes. I feel certain people...mainly Emblem Lord, are trying to force the Fox boards into the new Roy boards and make us all "OHHH WE SUCK!!!!". And I refuse to do that...therefore, I get made a laughingstock. You must have a harder time since Sonic is naturally lower than Fox on the incorrect tier list. eh? I'm sorry
Sonic is an amazing punisher, basically because he can get to you so fast...as well as combos.... Fox is one since he has SUCH good combos and incredible kill moves even out of shield. I don't know as much about Sonic's moveset as many of you would, so please forgive me if I sound ignorant at times...I am about this. lol.
I just feel that if people cannot consider a match in a tournament setting, with both players able to beat out certain things of their opponent, the matchup threads will never be correct and will negatively sway newcomers who might want to know... you know? (screw you M@v)

4. Fox's recovery is just very adaptable. Yeah, it's gimpable...illusion attacks BEHIND Fox, so any move hits him out of it, really... and Firefox sits there for a few. however, he has a LOT of options with those two...even though those two by themselves aren't stellar.

His second jump's height is greatly augmented by his fair... it makes him super floaty and he goes about 1.5 times his normal height with it. At that point, his illusion is his best option for getting back. He has a few options just with that. He can cancel his illusion at several different times, but mainly, Fox players will use long illusions and short ones. The long ones will cause him to go much farther than he normally would...he doesn't lose his momentum at the end. The short ones are basically good for hitting the edge from about eye level off the stage.

Certainly, everything here is gimpable, but you also have to guess right. Sonic's running speed makes up for a lot, but still...

If you go for an attack on Fox, he can jump away and illusion back to the edge. If you stay on the stage, he can either be risky and go for the edge through either just a normal illusion or a canceled one, or he can go onto the stage, usually with a long-canceled illusion, so he slides during the move's winddown. Fox's BEST option is to recover really high.

Then on top of that, the firefox can sweetspot the ledge from above, below, or under the ledge...

Just, all of these make it pretty unpredictable. With very good play, Sonic will probably get punishment on quite a few of these, but gimp kills are fairly hard to come by.

 

[Napilopez]

Again valid points, although when it comes to sweet spotting firefox, I'll reiterate that if fox is going to try to sweet spot, chances are Sonic would has gotten to the ledge first. Firefox startup time is almost a second, judging from some youtube vids I just looked at. Sonic can run across the entirety of FD in barely under a second(thats less than 60 frames, lol), and chances are, Sonic will never be that far away anyways. If Sonic is anywhere half the distance of FD or less, he can easily get to the ledge or get close enough to fox to gimp, before firefox even finishes activating, and then there is travel time as well. I think even us Sonic mains underestimate his speed sometimes. You will rarely see a sonic main use Sonics instant ledge grab though, because its by far the hardest to perform with Sonic. Only mains I ever see do it are me and Anthinus, and even I forget to do it most of the time. But the point is, firefox is not a good option for recovery against Sonic. But I feel like we could go back and forth on this XD.

Your post did provide tons of valuable information though, thanks XD. I also totally agree on your point about matchup discussions. Its just bothersome sometimes when you are trying to discuss a match-up, and have to evaluate it with "on-paper" values, when the real life context tends to differ so much. Its why I personally believe that one has to consider the different possible contexts and situations, and how each character can take advantage of them, because I believe that is more useful information that pure on paper match-up statistics and facts, although the latter is necessary as well before one can proceed at all. Acknowledging one's weaknesses is the first path to success.

Also, please feel free to correct me if any of my points come out as ignorant, uninformed, or just blatantly incorrect =P

 

[Dark Sonic]

So yeah, after playing some matches with Fenrir online I have to conclude...

ONLINE IS SO GAY FOR BOTH CHARACTERS!! Neither of us were punishing anything as much as we were supposed to. Although I did find out a few really good things for Sonic.

Sonic's uptilt beats Fox's dair. You don't even really have to space it that much, just time it so that your uptilt is out before Fox's dair reaches you.

Fox is hard to edgeguard. In our matches Fenrir rarely even used Firefox at all. What he'd do is use his second jump and then fair, and he'd just rocekt up! I'm not sure if Sonic's bair will beat his fair though (online johns).

Juggling fox is easy! Really, uair, uptilt, and up smash all beat Fox's dair, and shinestalling doesn't really work against uair that well. It may have just been online messing Fenrir up though.

So yeah, that's just a few things that I learned online. Take it as you will.

@Fenrir, lol you can't edgehog Sonic! Sonic just footstool jumps off you.

 

[Fenrir VII]

So yeah, after playing some matches with Fenrir online I have to conclude...

ONLINE IS SO GAY FOR BOTH CHARACTERS!! Neither of us were punishing anything as much as we were supposed to. Although I did find out a few really good things for Sonic.

Sonic's uptilt beats Fox's dair. You don't even really have to space it that much, just time it so that your uptilt is out before Fox's dair reaches you.

Fox is hard to edgeguard. In our matches Fenrir rarely even used Firefox at all. What he'd do is use his second jump and then fair, and he'd just rocekt up! I'm not sure if Sonic's bair will beat his fair though (online johns).

Juggling fox is easy! Really, uair, uptilt, and up smash all beat Fox's dair, and shinestalling doesn't really work against uair that well. It may have just been online messing Fenrir up though.

So yeah, that's just a few things that I learned online. Take it as you will.

@Fenrir, lol you can't edgehog Sonic! Sonic just footstool jumps off you.

Online is really bad, yeah... : /

most utilts beat Fox's dair. I was just dairing a lot because of wifi gayness. lol. Nair is a much better choice most of the time.

Sonic's bair on the fair is interesting, but I can't say I'm really sure... : /

Those matches felt like whoever had control REALLY had control... idk if that's online, or if it's that fun of a match. it was hilarious, though.

Things I learned, kinda...

Fox's nair goes through a lot. Fsmash is surprisingly good against Sonic...as it's mostly useless in Brawl.
Fox's Dair is an impressive edgeguard against Sonic. I didn't use it enough, but it pushes him back down and repeat. : )
Dsmash is really good

And yeah, I know about the edgehogging thing. I do that alot, as it's a really pretty safe answer as Fox.. generally a decent idea. Not so much against Sonic, but I really just needed to use those matches as "what can I do against this" matches.

FD seemed my advantage. BF seemed Sonic's.

Overall, JUST off of those matches... (so it will be flawed), I'd give the match no worse than 6-4 for Fox... it just seemed like I could go through a lot of stuff you were throwing... it's hard, as we're just two players, but yeah.

 

[Napilopez]

FD seemed your advantage, and BF seemed Sonic's? Thats not something I hear very often in Sonic matches vs another char XD. Sounds like DSonic plays a pretty aerial Sonic.

Foxs nair goes through alot. I'm pretty sure Sonic Bair will beat out Fox Fair though, but it has to be spaced appropriately.

Did dark Sonic use Ftilt enough? I'm pretty sure it clangs with foxs fsmash, and sonic has enough time to react with it after fox has initiated the move. May be wrong though.

You should play at least one other Sonic Fenrir XD. You will find out playstyles vary drastically, more so than for most other chars =P. I'm not sure of DSonic's playstyle though, so I wouldn't be able to judge. I think a Sonic heavy on tech chases and grabs might be more effective against fox, but I'm not too sure.

6-4 Fox doesn't sound too bad, although I'm more incline to call 55:45.

 

[Fenrir VII]

You should play at least one other Sonic Fenrir XD. You will find out playstyles vary drastically, more so than for most other chars =P.

lol you offering? sure. Friend code is in profile. I'll add you and be waiting in wifi. : )

 

[Tenki]

lol you offering? sure. Friend code is in profile. I'll add you and be waiting in wifi. : )

I'd do it, but you'd have to wait until late Friday night or Saturday morning ;/

edit/reply to next post:

Yeah, I'm in the same boat as Napilopez.

a Nice Boat.

 

[Napilopez]

Aww no I'm not =( I wish, I'd gladly play you! I don't have a wii here in college, so I'm brawl-less. I only get to play when I go home for the weekends. T-T

 

[da K.I.D.]

taken from the fox boards
combos from down air:
0%: jab and up tilt
70%: down smash
100% up smash (which will kill at that point)


also, i never recover with firefox unless i mess up or im ledge stalling

 

[Fenrir VII]

Wow...that was a bit embarrassing...couldn't time anything. I hate wifi... anyways, you had some REALLY good fsmash baits, Tenki. I liked them quite a bit.

 

[Napilopez]

=*Wifi tears*(

WiFi is actually quite a pain for sonic(spacing on the ground with his running speed is harrdddd), but I can also imagine it being particularly difficult for fox in this matchup as well, what with Sonic's speed and Fox being a punisher char.

Anyways Fenrir, I don't know how your matches went, but I hope more than anything you at least got to see what I mean about the drastically varying playstyles of Sonic mains. I don't mean that in an arrogant or derisive way at all incase it comes off like that, just thought it should be something you should be aware of. =P

As a sidenote, playing Tenki and Puffbll for the first time was the BEST thing I ever did for my Sonic. :D. Seriously, just from learning the simplest things from watching how they generally pwned me made me a mucchhh better Sonic. Lol, I learned to charge fsmash, the best Sonic AT ever. XD. Meanwhile, puffball showed me the true divine power of tilts. And to tech chase, lolz. I already had a pretty strong airgame, and playing them just totally upped my ground game, where I was severely lacking.

Wow I post alot of semi unrelated things in topics don't I? :/

 

[Fenrir VII]

=*Wifi tears*(

WiFi is actually quite a pain for sonic(spacing on the ground with his running speed is harrdddd), but I can also imagine it being particularly difficult for fox in this matchup as well, what with Sonic's speed and Fox being a punisher char.

Anyways Fenrir, I don't know how your matches went, but I hope more than anything you at least got to see what I mean about the drastically varying playstyles of Sonic mains. I don't mean that in an arrogant or derisive way at all incase it comes off like that, just thought it should be something you should be aware of. =P

Oh yeah.. it feels like Sonic vs Fox on wifi is the most disheartening thing ever... with both people missing so much. Tenki is def good. Dark Sonic, too....but I already knew that one. lol
And yeah, they're different. Just a lot of mixups.

I played horribly vs Tenki...so I'm sorry for that one. lol. But I guess you kind got to see Fox's recovery game more. : )

 

[Napilopez]

Oh yeah.. it feels like Sonic vs Fox on wifi is the most disheartening thing ever...

Thats how I feel about Sonic vs oli on WiFi ='''(, except that your fox could actually still do well besides the disheartening XD.

Anyways, did Tenki hit you with an reverse stutterstepped/retreating fsmashes? Those are a pain >_> =P

 

[Tenki]

Wow...that was a bit embarrassing...couldn't time anything. I hate wifi... anyways, you had some REALLY good fsmash baits, Tenki. I liked them quite a bit.

lmao a few times we'd run at each other, run past each other then do dash attack.

It was basically a battle of baits and mindgames lol. Sometimes I'd get flustered and do early laggy D-airs or (gasp) fastfall F-airs, and I'd get kicked sooo bad for it. Fox punishes reaaally hard when he gets the openings lol.

I'm wondering though - I wasn't able to test it during those games, but would the best SDI for Fox's D-air be sideways or upwards? I'm feeling like it should be sideways if you're grounded, and upwards if you're both in the air.

I played horribly vs Tenki...so I'm sorry for that one. lol. But I guess you kind got to see Fox's recovery game more. : )

XD sort of. I personally still don't know the exact timing for Firefox's release so I missed quite a bit of stage spikes (due to misprediction rather than lag). IMO the best things you did in those games recovery-wise were shortened Illusions done so you'd float to the edge instead, or using Illusion when you were high above the stage, which works considering I'm usually at stage level preparing a smash for you lol. I was able to hit you out of Illusion a few times through the lag though, and it was basically a matter of predicting the timing so my attack would be done when you were level with the stage, which is pretty much where the majority of Foxes use Illusion to recover.

Anyways, did Tenki hit you with an reverse stutterstepped/retreating fsmashes? Those are a pain >_> =P

roflmao.

Actually, yeah.

It'd be like F-smash > [reverse stutterstep] and he'd dash attack or hyphen usmash right into it. Or D-smash > [IASA reverse stutterstep]. Other times it'd be: F-smash > foxtrot backwards (lol input failure)

;__; But yeah, it's like, my favorite kill move when people are too aggressive at punishing, and apparently, I'm the only one who does it lol.

One of the rounds, I actually nailed a reverse stutterstep on Fox Illusion by the edge.

He teleported slightly behind me, we both froze for half a second in hitlag, and he went flying across the stage behind me for a KO. It was pretty.