PKNintendo
Smash Master
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No, the lag after they land.
Ic's has trouble Fthrow cging
ness lucas rob MK jiggly Quoted from barge.
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PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]
- Thread starter Yink
- Start date
Ic's has trouble Fthrow cging
ness lucas rob MK jiggly Quoted from barge.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
If anybody cares about what the ICs mains have to say about this match-up, read the last couple pages of this thread.
I think this match-up is something like 65:35 or 70:30 ICs favor.
I think this match-up is something like 65:35 or 70:30 ICs favor.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
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Why 7-3? or 65-35 for that matter. Your jumping the gun, because there isn't much the IC can do to Ness specifically that warrents a 6-4. Most you IC mains haven't even played a decent Ness and the arguments range from
''Chaingrab'' (which they can do to everyone, why aren't they at 7-3?) too Iceblock gimp. (facepalm, headesk) If Ike has a worse recovery than Ness, easily CG by IC, and ***** by IC, why is he listed at 6-4?
PKNintendo
Smash Master
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Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
More than anything else, I'm basing my numbers on how well I've done against Ness mains in tournament.
I have played a few really good Ness mains, too. Most recently, I really soundly beat Ademisk at this tournament.
... I'm not talking about numbers I'm just putting it out there and saying that Ness has to use less laggy attacks...
This means the majority of his PK specials. Anyway the match up is not a huge advantage to IC's... Mainly because Ness has good shield pressure and can knock nana away.
If anything it'd be at most 55-45 ICs just because of the keeping Ness away from Specials and Block gimp...
You are probably just way better than Ademisk? You got second... Good job.
Anyway atleast I know you talk from experience.
This means the majority of his PK specials. Anyway the match up is not a huge advantage to IC's... Mainly because Ness has good shield pressure and can knock nana away.
If anything it'd be at most 55-45 ICs just because of the keeping Ness away from Specials and Block gimp...
You are probably just way better than Ademisk? You got second... Good job.
Anyway atleast I know you talk from experience.
Wave⁂
Smash Legend
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Are you okay? Yes, IC can chaingrab everyone else. Yes, that gives them an advantage. But no, that does not mean a 7-3 matchup for all because certain characters can do things other cannot.
Gaussis
Smash Ace
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Okay people, calm down. I will summarize all that has been said thus far:
-IC mains argue for a 70:30 IC. Reasons are the CG and the Ice Block gimp
-Ness mains argue for a 55:45 or 60:40 IC. Reasons are that ICs can punish anything with lag.
My input. The ice block gimp is situational due to the fact that you would have to force Ness into that position to get him to recover from there. Since IC lack an attack with good horizontal knockback, this isn't happening to often. The spike is also situational.
Ness can gimp them better using PKT. Hit one of the climbers before they recover (I think), and both will desync. Now desynced, they can't use Belay to recover and one of the climbers will end up dying.
In terms of spacing, Ness can space better than ICs by a margin. However, Ness doesn't want to be punished, so his approach game becomes a matter of fairs, and other aerial approaches. IC's have a projectile, the ice blocks, but they are very poor projectiles since you can knock them away with any attack. Again, Ness doesn't want to be punished, so he can't start a projectile spam contest unless he is far from punishing range.
Since Ness can space better than ICs, getting grabbed isn't easier for them. However, Ness could get grabbed in certain instances (like a desynced IC situation), so this has some effect in the matchup, but possibly no more than one should give it credit for.
All in all, it looks very slightly leaning towards climbers due to CG->death. However, one of them must first land the grab which isn't easier here. At this point I'd go for 55:45 IC.
-IC mains argue for a 70:30 IC. Reasons are the CG and the Ice Block gimp
-Ness mains argue for a 55:45 or 60:40 IC. Reasons are that ICs can punish anything with lag.
My input. The ice block gimp is situational due to the fact that you would have to force Ness into that position to get him to recover from there. Since IC lack an attack with good horizontal knockback, this isn't happening to often. The spike is also situational.
Ness can gimp them better using PKT. Hit one of the climbers before they recover (I think), and both will desync. Now desynced, they can't use Belay to recover and one of the climbers will end up dying.
In terms of spacing, Ness can space better than ICs by a margin. However, Ness doesn't want to be punished, so his approach game becomes a matter of fairs, and other aerial approaches. IC's have a projectile, the ice blocks, but they are very poor projectiles since you can knock them away with any attack. Again, Ness doesn't want to be punished, so he can't start a projectile spam contest unless he is far from punishing range.
Since Ness can space better than ICs, getting grabbed isn't easier for them. However, Ness could get grabbed in certain instances (like a desynced IC situation), so this has some effect in the matchup, but possibly no more than one should give it credit for.
All in all, it looks very slightly leaning towards climbers due to CG->death. However, one of them must first land the grab which isn't easier here. At this point I'd go for 55:45 IC.
_clinton
Smash Master
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Ness' down throw is safe on the ICs for the most part...the fire from it can keep them away...
The main key to fighting the ICs and winning is to keep them away from each other...and I feel Ness does this pretty easily IMO...Nana isn't really helpful when dealing with PK Fire for one thing...but it's not like Ness only has PK Fire...
I mean really...
Ness also forces them to come to him...Ice Blocks can be knocked out by fire or the bat even for how much that matters...
The main key to fighting the ICs and winning is to keep them away from each other...and I feel Ness does this pretty easily IMO...Nana isn't really helpful when dealing with PK Fire for one thing...but it's not like Ness only has PK Fire...
I mean really...
Ness also forces them to come to him...Ice Blocks can be knocked out by fire or the bat even for how much that matters...
thesage
Smash Hero
Nanaburgers are tasty.
_clinton
Smash Master
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I liked that video ^_^
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
I agree with Ref. The current number is far too steep. Ike's range, power, and general "answers" to Ness don't merit 70:30, IMO.
Yea Move it down to 60-40 Ike has quite a bit of things working for him in this match up. In no way could it be 70-30.
60-40 or 55-45.
Well I see it was moved from the last discussion someone said 70-30 and it was like that a while... Didn't really check first post recently.
60-40 or 55-45.
DJ Nintendo's Ike
Well I see it was moved from the last discussion someone said 70-30 and it was like that a while... Didn't really check first post recently.
Just some comments glancing over the list:
I agree with Ref on Ike and I think it is 55-45 Ness wins. Ike isn't a bad character like the people who came up with 70-30 must have thought.
I don't think Ness has advantage over Diddy.
Ness has small advantage (55-45) over Zelda and moderate advantage (60-40) over Mario.
Pit is even or small advantage for Ness.
Peach is even.
I'm not sure why Wario supposedly has advantage over Ness.
I agree with Ref on Ike and I think it is 55-45 Ness wins. Ike isn't a bad character like the people who came up with 70-30 must have thought.
I don't think Ness has advantage over Diddy.
Ness has small advantage (55-45) over Zelda and moderate advantage (60-40) over Mario.
Pit is even or small advantage for Ness.
Peach is even.
I'm not sure why Wario supposedly has advantage over Ness.
marcus0103
Smash Apprentice
Yea, playing Ike is a little difficult since you never want to get too close in front or he'll just keep spamming his Jab combo.
Or when they run at you, do a back flip and then come down at you with their fair. I learned that the hard way.
@ ColinJF: Wario may be fat, but he's a quick fat man. I don't know about other Ness mains here, but his wobbly movement gets the best of me and his attacks are rather strong. Probably stronger than Ness'. I don't know.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
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Ike WAS moved.
yeah, cause Ike is actually pretty **** tough.
Gaussis
Smash Ace
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I always thought it was a 60-40 Ness in the Ike matchup. Ike does indeed have more range than Ness, but Ness forces Ike to approach, not the other way around. It seems to me that an Ike in the air is PKT prone, but I'm not sure. Ness can gimp Ike with three of his specials (PK fire to quickdraw, PKT under the stage, PK flash to high quickdraw air/aether).
Ike has a good autocancellable nair but it has horrible startup lag IMO. Retreating fairs keeps Ness away from Ike, but Ness has projectiles to avoid the situation. I'm not sure how jab combos would factor into this.
To me, this is enough for a 60:40, though I could be missing something.
Ike has a good autocancellable nair but it has horrible startup lag IMO. Retreating fairs keeps Ness away from Ike, but Ness has projectiles to avoid the situation. I'm not sure how jab combos would factor into this.
To me, this is enough for a 60:40, though I could be missing something.
Wave⁂
Smash Legend
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I don't think the startup is that bad at all, you could say it's somewhere between Ness's bair and dair, which really isn't all that bad. Besides, fair has more startup (IIRC).
Don't get hit, nubs
PKNintendo, why are you arbitrarily selecting match up numbers for some of these characters without discussing them in this topic? You might also want to post the invitation to discuss in this topic, rather than on the topics for other boards like I saw you did with Olimar.
Meta Knight v. Ness is not 70-30. It's more in the ballpark of 60-40.
Meta Knight v. Ness is not 70-30. It's more in the ballpark of 60-40.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
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MK is broken.
Repeat after me:
MK is broken.
MK is broken.
MK is broken.
You will get insulted an ***** for not thinking like me. Ness is like the rest of the Brawl cast. Nothing on MK. Edit your post. NOW!
asob4
Smash Champion
if i ever get the chance to play vicegrip, whether in tourney or friendly, i will give you my complete opinion on this match up
for the time being i am butting out due to little experience with the match up and because i don't play as ness
i only know his "basics" cause i've seen vicegrip play and it's fun to mess around with him
for the time being i am butting out due to little experience with the match up and because i don't play as ness
i only know his "basics" cause i've seen vicegrip play and it's fun to mess around with him
Meta Knight enjoys a small advantage over the whole cast and a large advantage over a few characters who already suck for the most part. He isn't broken, and he doesn't really destroy Ness. Sure it's a bad match up, but it's not 30-70 bad or even 35-65 bad (though I might wavier on the latter). Lots of characters have 40-60 match ups versus Meta Knight, he doesn't destroy the cast.
If you want to whine about Meta Knight take it to one of the dozens of threads elsewhere anyway.
As I said in the other thread Ness beats Olimar at least 60-40. The only thing Olimar has on Ness is grab range.
If you want to whine about Meta Knight take it to one of the dozens of threads elsewhere anyway.
This is a non factor Ness will just use neutral air before using pk thunder
As I said in the other thread Ness beats Olimar at least 60-40. The only thing Olimar has on Ness is grab range.
MK is Ness's worst matchup
PK-ow!
Smash Lord
I think I would assent to this.
Snake is a very mentally taxing character, he has many things you have to watch out for, and we all know how he can insta-pwn anyone who screws up. He has tools to divide your attention and many divergent options.
Meta Knight, he's an extremely tough character to play against, obviously, but it always seems. . . clear what your correct move is supposed to be. He doesn't drain your attention in that way.
Still, you have to be **** sure not to get hit by all his OMFG uberpriority attacks, but. . . there's something simple about it, compared to Snake.
Gaussis
Smash Ace
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I think it's his defensive play. Ness can't really take on Snake unless it's indirectly and even then, it's difficult to keep the advantage. MK however, all you have to watch out for is not being predictable and be aware of what you can hit him with and when.
On Olimar, I don't see anything threatening about him. I mean, he does have several disjointed attacks, but most of them are of no avail due to Ness's yo-yos, nair, and fair. Even PKT can stop pikmin.