PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

Stealth Raptor · Nov 5, 2008

I also would not mind facing ness's to help determine the matchup. i am pretty sure this is fairly close to neutral, perhaps in ness favor, but i would like to play some ness's first lol.

Uffe · Nov 5, 2008

Stealth Raptor said:
I also would not mind facing ness's to help determine the matchup. i am pretty sure this is fairly close to neutral, perhaps in ness favor, but i would like to play some ness's first lol.

I can play you tomorrow or something! :D Not for the match ups, either. XD I mean just for the heck of it. I don't fight Pikachu as much as I used to.

Stealth Raptor · Nov 5, 2008

Awesome. just hit me up whenever. i will at least try to figure stuff out about the matchup, i dont get many chances to play ness.

Uffe · Nov 5, 2008

Stealth Raptor said:
Awesome. just hit me up whenever. i will at least try to figure stuff out about the matchup, i dont get many chances to play ness.

I'll play you tomorrow. I had just realized how awesome I am offline vs online, though. Thought I'd give you a heads up. I suppose we can try and learn something through the matches.

lilmister · Nov 5, 2008

@PKNintendo
Can you put links to the pages where the discussion of each character match up starts? Because I'm having trouble locating certain matchups...but if you can't or don't want to I can understand

Hmmm Pikachu?
He's one of my mains, but I haven't really had any experience as Ness against him/her/it (lol).
Just a few things to worry about:
-Dsmash: Vacuum effect (sorta) and does multiple hits and damage. DI out of
-Fsmash: Has a longer range than the bat and starts up faster (I stand to be corrected) but is distinctively less powerful after multiple uses.
-Bair: Does some spinny spinny move in the air...deal multiple hits...annoying

Levitas · Nov 5, 2008

lilmister: Dsmash has sideways hits inwards from pika, effectively bouncing you back and forth. Quick SDI, like you said, is effective. Be sure to do it UP and not horizontal at all.

Fsmash doesn't decay any faster than other moves. Also it does have better startup, but since when does Ness uses his Fsmash for anything?

Pika's Bair is almost never used. It has worse landing lag than fair, making it an inferior option. Anther frequently leads fairs/crossedup fairs into grabs.

Stealth Raptor · Nov 5, 2008

Some of us bair for its high priority. i like to use it when somebody on a platform. its priority and awesome shieldpoking abilities **** people on platforms.

Levitas · Nov 5, 2008

Silly pikachus and having styles of play that aren't just copies of anther.

Idk, bair seems less useful in general, because they have to be at the edge of a platform or you have to do correct aerially positioning not to get large amounts of lag, and Pika's bair's priority still isn't gonna beat most moves that people consider to be "high priority".

Stealth Raptor · Nov 5, 2008

Very true i just wouldnt call it useless. i dont use it very often either but i do use it.

Uffe · Nov 5, 2008

Pikachu's bair is amazing! I love using that attack a lot. It seems really handy if you RAR it, though since it has this grapple effect and you can pull away while using it.

PKNintendo · Nov 5, 2008

Here's my input.

PK can crawl over you with his QAC or Quack.
It allows him (if Im sure) to cancel his Up B with aerials.

Thunder Jolt approaches can be stopped with psi magnet. (but don't get cocky, the move sucks, and it doesn't stop it 100%, just partially)

In the air, I think Ness wins. His fair outranges Pikachu's aerials. Ness is hard pressed on the ground, and must watch out for downsmash. (SDI to escape it)

Pikachu's Top part of thunder can be absorbed. So use it while edge guarding.
A huge pro in this matchup is Pikachu's weight. Pikachu is light so, Ness Backthrow will kill Pikachu early.
I don't know about you (levitas) but I LOVE Ness Fsmash. It's strong, powerful and is decent at spacing. Use it on Pikachu for a lucky 60% kill. (tipper) PK fire is not recommended because of Pikachu's weight, and speed. (light characters escape easier)

All an all neutral, but slightly for Ness.

55-45.

Edit: Watch chu talking about Levitas. Pikachu's bair is win.

Ref · Nov 5, 2008

If you Use forward smash, unless it's to punish a super " I'm lagging like Nintendo Wifi right now so take this opportunity to forward smash me" lag. If you hit with it most of the other times, you just got lucky.

Though you can pull out the forward smash and kill randomly when they least expect it.

Levitas · Nov 5, 2008

It's neutralish, but it's in pika's favor if anyones. Pika's mobility tools and recovery > Ness's "early" KOs and aerial priority.

Pika just has superior tools in general, and this matchup isn't much of exception.

BTW, the coolest thing that will never happen in this matchup is by far fsmashing a Pika's thunder so it and the bat hits them. Bonus points if it's fully charged, because that means they reacted to your fsmash's startup with a thunder that missed.

PKNintendo · Nov 5, 2008

Levitas said:
It's neutralish, but it's in pika's favor if anyones. Pika's mobility tools and recovery > Ness's "early" KOs and aerial priority.

Pika just has superior tools in general, and this matchup isn't much of exception.

BTW, the coolest thing that will never happen in this matchup is by far fsmashing a Pika's thunder so it and the bat hits them. Bonus points if it's fully charged, because that means they reacted to your fsmash's startup with a thunder that missed.

Or you can absorb it?

Levitas · Nov 5, 2008

...perhaps...

I really don't know if you can, as you couldn't in melee, and I've never been in the situation where that would be useful.

Stealth Raptor · Nov 5, 2008

i think the magnet is too close to pika to absorb the poof, but i dont know. easily tested though. open for any ness's that want a battle.....

thesage · Nov 5, 2008

The poof cannot the hitbox that's around pikachu when his down-b hits himself.

Levitas · Nov 5, 2008

Maybe next time, you can you a verb. It'll make more sense, I promise.

lilmister · Nov 6, 2008

Levitas said:
Fsmash doesn't decay any faster than other moves. Also it does have better startup, but since when does Ness uses his Fsmash for anything?

Hmm I remember reading from somewhere that it does decay faster...I think it was from smash Dojo? <_<
But if I'm wrong then my bad :dizzy:

thesage · Nov 6, 2008

thesage said:
The poof cannot the hitbox that's around pikachu when his down-b hits himself.

Wow I need to go to sleep. XD

What I meant to say

The hitbox of the explosion caused when pikachu hits himself with his down b cannot be absorbed.

WTF@Poof

Masky · Nov 6, 2008

Why doesn't Ness have his own Franklin Badge? He has his own baseball bat.

PKNintendo · Nov 6, 2008

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/pikachu.html

I think it decays faster. I don't know, Sakurai is kina dumb so W/E

Levitas · Nov 6, 2008

That link didn't say it decayed faster or anything. The only reason there's a bigger difference between the damage it deals decayed vs undecayed is because it deals more damage to start with. It's like comparing a falcon punch's decay to a fox's jab's decay.

That said, I'm like 98% sure that it isn't an abnormal rate of decay.

PKSkyler · Nov 7, 2008

Masky said:
Why doesn't Ness have his own Franklin Badge? He has his own baseball bat.

Dont make me go into all the stuff Ness SHOULD have in brawl :laugh:

EdreesesPieces · Nov 7, 2008

Ref said:
If you Use forward smash, unless it's to punish a super " I'm lagging like Nintendo Wifi right now so take this opportunity to forward smash me" lag. If you hit with it most of the other times, you just got lucky.

Though you can pull out the forward smash and kill randomly when they least expect it.

I find that F-smash can be landed as a move if you predict someone will air dodge as they land. Just initiate as they initiate the air dodge and the timing is just right.

Stealth - did I use my Ness at all when we played friendlies?

Uffe · Nov 7, 2008

Masky said:
Why doesn't Ness have his own Franklin Badge? He has his own baseball bat.

This would be cool if they automatically gave Ness a Franklin Badge. Again, the game makes no sense.

PKNintendo · Nov 7, 2008

Give him that as his down B instead of the crap we have now. I would rather have a clone of Fox's down B than Psi Crap Magnet. I HATE THAT MOVE.

Gaussis · Nov 7, 2008

Rather, remove all of that nasty startup lag and there, a better PSI magnet.

PKNintendo · Nov 8, 2008

DK now. Any input Ness mains?

Ref · Nov 8, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fep5iWhCbTQ This is my input...

PKNintendo · Nov 8, 2008

Ref said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fep5iWhCbTQ This is my input...

That was a close match. Great Ness, you should use your backthrow more, and throw in some bats. All and all, great Ness!

Ref · Nov 8, 2008

Basically it's an even match up...

_clinton · Nov 8, 2008

Ref said:
Basically it's an even match up...

I sort of agree with it being even...or at least 55:45 Ness
Some DKs annoy the hell out of me ^_^

Overall it is one of those matches though were I find my self noticing that I'm winning well w/o any trouble, or may be losing by a lot...with the same DKs that I play with...which is odd ^_^

itsthebigfoot · Nov 8, 2008

Ok, I'm pretty experienced with this matchup, since i've played vicegrip a lot.

the cargo dsmash is very useful, and the cg does work pknintendo, no matter how much you say otherwise, dk's dashgrab comes out 2 frames faster than his dsmash, meaning as long as he predicts right he can regrab.

other than that, dk's bair does beat out your air game, and his punch will eat your approach options. ness however does have some pkthunder combos that really hurt. it's about 6-4 dk, since once ness gets in, he can do damage, it's just hard for him to get in

_clinton · Nov 8, 2008

itsthebigfoot said:
Ok, I'm pretty experienced with this matchup, since i've played vicegrip a lot.

the cargo dsmash is very useful, and the cg does work pknintendo, no matter how much you say otherwise, dk's dashgrab comes out 2 frames faster than his dsmash, meaning as long as he predicts right he can regrab.

other than that, dk's bair does beat out your air game, and his punch will eat your approach options. ness however does have some pkthunder combos that really hurt. it's about 6-4 dk, since once ness gets in, he can do damage, it's just hard for him to get in

Funny...I'm pretty sure DK has to be the one to come in to Ness...not Ness coming into DK...

Jtails · Nov 8, 2008

thing about dk is back throw doesnt kill till around 130+
though a close ranged PKT2 can kill at 50.

gimping with bairs can get annoying, but ness has the control as long as he stays in front of dk.
Ref did a great job of demonstrating this.

also grabbing him as soon as he lands, staying in front so fair cant really hit you.

all in all i think its an even match. but maybe even alittle bit in DKs favor because ness is so light and dies at low %

just play safe + smart

Gaussis · Nov 8, 2008

Ness isn't light. He's a middle-weight.

This is pure speculation but in the video, it looks like Ref could have pulled a few pivot grabs for the kill. Very close match indeed.

I wish I knew more about this matchup. It certainly looks neutral.

Jtails · Nov 8, 2008

i didnt mean light, i meant light compared to DK. but you're right

maybe if it was at BF it would have been better, so backthrows could kill from either side. staying inside of DK is annoying cause of tilts. making pivot grabs harder.

Levitas · Nov 8, 2008

It isn't neutral. Bum was making a number of mistakes.

Ref had to rely on ness's projectiles, in particular PK fire. This is a bad sign.

Bum had the advantage of getting earlier KOs due to DK's ridiculous Dsmash and Usmash.

Jtails · Nov 8, 2008

i agree levitas. that was my point ^^^

about early KO's and the match being slighty in DK favor maybe 55-45?

PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

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