[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

Skyshroud · Nov 9, 2008

Spire III said:
While Samus and Ridley may have been at similar sizes in the original Metroid, Smash Bros is based off of the latest appearances of characters (for the most part). All of the Smash Bros characters are based off of their latest appearances in games outside of Smash Bros. While all Smash Bros character models are based off of their latest appearances, they are not complete replicas per se. For instance:

The Mario, DK, Yoshi, and Wario characters are all original models based off of their latest appearances, with Bowser and DK taking on a much more grimacing look, Peach taking on a frilled, ornate dress, etc etc.

The Zelda characters are based off of the latest Zelda games - the realistic (Twilight Princess) realm, and the toon (Wind Waker) realm.

Samus is based off of her latest rendition for the most part, including ZSS, who doesn't look exactly as she did in the Metroid Prime series (well, her head that is), and Ice Climbers, Pit, and ROB being modernized updates to their 20 year old sprites.

The Kirby characters have been represented three-dimensionally in only two games, besides the Smash Bros series (correct me if I'm wrong), so their appearances haven't changed much at all; and as for Olimar, he has changed minutely from his appearance in Pikmin 1&2.

The Star Fox characters are completely new renditions, taking inspiration from their latest titles, but revamping them for Brawl, and the same goes for Captain Falcon, who appears like never before.

The Pokemon characters have never really changed much, as there has been no real mean to do so, however, they've not been presented so well in 3D before Smash Bros either.

The Fire Emblem characters and the Mother/Earthbound characters resemble their out-of-smash appearances, but Marth has been incredibly updated, along with Ness and Lucas - who remember, have never appeared in 3D until Smash Bros; leaving Ike for last, he too even looks different from his latest FE appearance.

As for the last roster column, G&W doesn't have much to work with, but Snake and Sonic, being guest characters, are based off of their most famous designs (albeit latest, sans Old Snake).

So, my point? Please take into consideration what a character appears like in their latest rendition outside of Smash Bros, as that will have a strong effect on their appearance within Smash Bros. Ridley was included twice as a boss, very large both times, but smaller than his rendition in the Metroid Prime series - why? Because they had to size him down so that he would work with the Smash Bros characters in the best way possible. You'd have to size him down a little more than half of his Brawl size for playability, and that's not doing such a great character any justice.

Of course Ridley could be playable, I do not debate that. Hell, you could make Godzilla playable if you sized him down, and while that is more of an extreme, doesn't that seem incredibly ridiculous? No one would rightfully want that, and the same goes for Ridley in terms of ridiculing the character.

Thank you for your time,
Spire

This is largely irrelevant. You are only dealing with the character models, not the size of the characters themselves. In Galaxy, Bowser was massive, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1zHLX7q8Mg ) yet in Brawl, he is greatly sized down. Sure, they use newer character appearances, but not necessarily size.

Spire · Nov 9, 2008

Skyshroud said:
This is largely irrelevant. You are only dealing with the character models, not the size of the characters themselves. In Galaxy, Bowser was massive, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1zHLX7q8Mg ) yet in Brawl, he is greatly sized down. Sure, they use newer character appearances, but not necessarily size.

The models have a lot to do with the size, as the characters [for the most part] are modeled after their latest out-of-smash appearances, and hence, would probably adopt the relative size of that character. Bowser, like mentioned many, many times before, fluctuates in size from game to game and has never had a coherent size, other than "larger than Mario". Same goes for Olimar, who is a special case, of which, I won't bother explaining.

Darky Dee · Nov 9, 2008

Skyshroud said:
Spire: Point taken about the perspective issue, but it still supports the Ridley could be smaller argument to some extent. If you ignore perspective, Ridley does not look awkward when compared to Samus at that size, and certainly wouldn't if he increased his size a bit more. So, if Samus was taken back to pre-Brawl size, then Ridley could fit perfectly.

You mean Melee size where she was roughly the same size as Peach where someone posted a video earlier of a match between Samus and Peach?

If Samus were to be in her Zero Suit in that match, she would look like a dwarf compared to Peach.

Spire III said:
No one would rightfully want that, and the same goes for Ridley in terms of ridiculing the character.

**** straight. Only way to evade that is to exceed the practical playable character size, but big characters are already big and easy targets to hit. Ridley would be the ultimate punching bag.

He would either have to have a very long dodge animation allowing his invincibility frames to last longer so if he dodges a projectile, he would avoid it, but if he is dodging attacks in general, that many invincibility frames would be extremely broken. Hyper armor is another possibility, but I really can't see anything getting bigger than Bowser.

I don't know what else to share at the moment, this argument is driven off opinions of fans rather than reasonable gameplay schematics. I mean, I'm a fan myself, but shrinking him down just for the kicks isn't a good enough reason for me to want him to be playable. It ruins what Ridley is to me.

A new ideas--
1. Previously mentioned that everyone should have a useful Z-Air. Or at least have tether recovery enabled characters to have full use of it, rather than Link having a crappy one and Lucas' being non-existent.

OR

2. Air-Grabbing instead of Z-Airs.

Z- Airs seem more practical so it won't seem that tether recovery enabled characters like Link and Samus won't get the short end of things

Mario: Falls a lot slower with the Raccoon Tail if the Z button is being tapped repetitively.
Luigi: Busts out Poltergust 3000 and sucks people in to set up for Fire Uppercut and used as Tether Recovery.
Bowser: Hops into Koopa Clown Car with hyper armor and stomps opponents under into floor.
Peach: Blows a kiss that disables opponents from being able to hit her, time would vary depending on opponent's damage percentage.
Samus: Would remain the same.
Zero Suit Samus: Horizontal plasma wire that drags opponents inward to be kicked farther with a F-Air animation. ANOTHER TETHER RECOVERY OPTION.

Something like that?

§leepy God · Nov 9, 2008

Air Grab eh? That would be sweet, but not everyone can be able to use that sadlly, but as long as it's not unbalanced then I'm all in for it. The idea I want mostly is at least four diffrent Final Smashes for each chracter.

Skyshroud · Nov 9, 2008

Spire III said:
The models have a lot to do with the size, as the characters [for the most part] are modeled after their latest out-of-smash appearances, and hence, would probably adopt the relative size of that character. Bowser, like mentioned many, many times before, fluctuates in size from game to game and has never had a coherent size, other than "larger than Mario". Same goes for Olimar, who is a special case, of which, I won't bother explaining.

Yes, but Bowser still wasn't based off of his current model size-wise. That's the point. They don't follow everything exactly, which means Ridley could be adapted to fit Brawl.

Darky: I was thinking about ZAirs the other day, and I thought that everyone should get a ZAir. It doesn't necessarily have to relate to their grab at all, it would just be another aerial attack option. Seeing as how everyone has 5 aerials and 9 basic ground attacks, (Jab, Tilts, Smashes, Dash, and Grab) I think that aerial options could be increased a bit. (I didn't count specials as air or ground because they can be used in both situations, albeit some may have a more useful aerial/ground version.)

~rh · Nov 9, 2008

The Sleepy One said:
Air Grab eh? That would be sweet, but not everyone can be able to use that sadlly, but as long as it's not unbalanced then I'm all in for it. The idea I want mostly is at least four diffrent Final Smashes for each chracter.

I wonder how they'd implement an airgrab if air dodging would still be in.

Darky Dee · Nov 9, 2008

Ryu Hikaru said:
I wonder how they'd implement an airgrab if air dodging would still be in.

Well, I myself air dodge with the R button on the Gamecube controller, and I main Samus now, so I use her Z-Air a lot. Even in Melee, I would dodge using the R button.

But yeah, Z-Air would seem more reasonable since the current characters who have them won't have to be changed.

Coroxive · Nov 9, 2008

majora_787 said:
Ninten = Ness. o_o adding Ninten now would be like adding Samus.

Yeah, except for the fact that Ninten has Asthma, which could make different move choices.

As for me, I want to see...

-Conker a playable character
-Banjo a playable character
-Better online and stage builder
-2p online (meaning that you can play with 2 people on the same system online with ANYONE)
-Not as laggy online
-More chars.
-More stages
-Better story and make it longer

C.Olimar788 · Nov 9, 2008

I think it'd be hard to have Ninten in, considering the fact that that's a THIRD character with the same general moveset from Earthbound/Mother and Ness and Lucas are already clones...

Niten would be an awesome Assist Trophy or alt costume, though. :3

Bowser King · Nov 9, 2008

Air grab is fail. I can already see chars like MK owning with it. Also, aireal CG anyone?

- :bowser:

Bowser King

Vyse · Nov 9, 2008

I don't like the idea of air grabbing because it'd be too broken as an edgeguard.

Barge · Nov 9, 2008

If anything, I'd like to see some of the original mario crew members added.

Waluigi, Daisy, Toad, Boo, Bowser Jr.

Waluigi for obvious reasons, he'll complete the mario bros vs wario bros. Daisy, Luigi needs a lover too! Plus i'm interested to see what her moveset would be.

Maybe change Peaches B move to add toad into the game.
Boo, hes the antagonist everyone loves, and who can hate bowser jr (aka koopa kid)

Bowser King · Nov 9, 2008

Bowser jr and Ridley were my top choices pre-brawl D:

- :bowser:

Bowser King

SkylerOcon · Nov 9, 2008

SSB4 thread, I return to you with a bold propostition:

Magikarp for SSB4

Some of you may be confused, but think about it. Magikarp is awesome. This is clearly demonstrated by its number in the Pokedex (129) which comes before both Mewtwo and Lucario, clearly showing Game Freak's intended superiority of Magikarp.

The only reason why he wasn't the best Pokemon in the game was because Game Freak decided that a Pokemon that powerful would be cheap and unfair. They had no time to give it a new set of moves or stats, so they just made it the worst Pokemon in the game, due to time constraints. Magikarps from second, third, and fourth gen have followed suit out of tradition.

The horrors of the original Magikarp would be a perfect addition to the smash cast. Magikarp for SSB4!

ROOOOY! · Nov 9, 2008

I think the Mario franchise already has too many characters in the game.
I'd like to see a Metroid character (probably Ridley) and maybe another Zelda character.

Bowser King · Nov 9, 2008

SkylerOcon said:
SSB4 thread, I return to you with a bold propostition:

Magikarp for SSB4

Some of you may be confused, but think about it. Magikarp is awesome. This is clearly demonstrated by its number in the Pokedex (129) which comes before both Mewtwo and Lucario, clearly showing Game Freak's intended superiority of Magikarp.

The only reason why he wasn't the best Pokemon in the game was because Game Freak decided that a Pokemon that powerful would be cheap and unfair. They had no time to give it a new set of moves or stats, so they just made it the worst Pokemon in the game, due to time constraints. Magikarps from second, third, and fourth gen have followed suit out of tradition.

The horrors of the original Magikarp would be a perfect addition to the smash cast. Magikarp for SSB4!

Stay in the MYM thread, skyler. You know very well that will never happen

.

-

Bowser King

Barge · Nov 9, 2008

ROOOOY! said:
I think the Mario franchise already has too many characters in the game.
I'd like to see a Metroid character (probably Ridley) and maybe another Zelda character.

I agree with the metroid, samus is the only character from metroid, zelda...what other zelda characters are there? -_-

Definitely need a MRS. Game and Watch.

SkylerOcon · Nov 9, 2008

Barge said:
If anything, I'd like to see some of the original mario crew members added.

Waluigi, Daisy, Toad, Boo, Bowser Jr.

Waluigi for obvious reasons, he'll complete the mario bros vs wario bros. Daisy, Luigi needs a lover too! Plus i'm interested to see what her moveset would be.

Maybe change Peaches B move to add toad into the game.
Boo, hes the antagonist everyone loves, and who can hate bowser jr (aka koopa kid)

No to all of those characters except Bowser Jr.

Waluigi - Never been in an actual game, just sports games.
Daisy - She was in Mario Land! Then... sports games.
Toad - Nowhere near important enough. A cameo as peach's special is a fitting acknowledgment, however.
Boo - To generic. Even King Boo wouldn't fit due to not being important enough.

Bowser Jr. - I would prefer Baby Mario Bros. and Paper Mario over this guy, but he'd still be alright.

Spire · Nov 9, 2008

Magikarp should have been in before Pichu, that's for sure. Realistically, it wouldn't work as a character, but why has it not seen the light of day even as a Pokeball Pokemon? Goldeen definitely isn't representative enough -- everyone knows Magikarp. Plus, it could be hit, as Wobuffet is, and if hit too many times, it evolves into Gyarados and then you're screwed.

Bowser King · Nov 9, 2008

I hate some people thinking Bowser jr. would be a clone. They are so different >_>

@spire

interesting...that would be an awesome idea. Goldeen has fought on land before. If you play pokemon you know that. On the other hand, magikarp can too. Though guess what...Magikarp isn't very good on land (hence his only move till lvl 30 being splash)

- :bowser:

Bowser King

Lord Viper · Nov 9, 2008

Wow, did Magikarp take over this thread to. ^_^;

ROOOOY! · Nov 9, 2008

Magikarp would be a pretty good addition.
I say we get rid of Pikachu in place of Magikarp.
I mean, Magikarp's more popular.
And I've got a whole moveset thought out for him too.

Barge · Nov 9, 2008

SkylerOcon said:
No to all of those characters except Bowser Jr.

Waluigi - Never been in an actual game, just sports games.
Daisy - She was in Mario Land! Then... sports games.
Toad - Nowhere near important enough. A cameo as peach's special is a fitting acknowledgment, however.
Boo - To generic. Even King Boo wouldn't fit due to not being important enough.

Bowser Jr. - I would prefer Baby Mario Bros. and Paper Mario over this guy, but he'd still be alright.

I'm sure Waluigi is going to get a game before ssb4 comes out, theres gonna be at least another 5 years.

I'm not sure about Daisy, but it'd be nice to see her as an addition.

FYI: Not only were they all in sports games, but also mario partys, duh

Boo is awesome, who wouldnt want him? I can already picture it, one of his specials would be like Metaknights cape. Only not broken.

SkylerOcon · Nov 9, 2008

bowser king said:
I hate some people thinking Bowser jr. would be a clone. They are so different >_>

Bowser Jr. could use the paintbrush from Sunshine to attack. Initially, I was against Bowser Jr., but the more I thought of it, I realized that it could give the Krystal fanboys a reason to shut up because a staff-wielder already got in the game.

Barge said:
Boo is awesome, who wouldnt want him? I can already picture it, one of his specials would be like Metaknights cape. Only not broken.

Boo as an assist trophy would be brokenly awesome. As a standalone character? Not really.

Spire · Nov 9, 2008

bowser king said:
I hate some people thinking Bowser jr. would be a clone. They are so different >_>

-Bowser King

I love Bowser, but Bowser Jr. is almost as bad as the babies... It's obvious that they wouldn't play the same - it'd be almost impossible, given the difference in physique. Bowser Jr. would play like Mario before he'd play like Bowser.

Of course, they'd give him his brush, but Shadow Mario would be pointless unless given a completely different moveset than Mario.

Bowser King · Nov 9, 2008

Spire III said:
I love Bowser, but Bowser Jr. is almost as bad as the babies... It's obvious that they wouldn't play the same - it'd be almost impossible, given the difference in physique. Bowser Jr. would play like Mario before he'd play like Bowser.

Of course, they'd give him his brush, but Shadow Mario would be pointless unless given a completely different moveset than Mario.

Shadow Mario could be a FS

-

Bowser King

Spire · Nov 9, 2008

SkylerOcon said:
Bowser Jr. could use the paintbrush from Sunshine to attack. Initially, I was against Bowser Jr., but the more I thought of it, I realized that it could give the Krystal fanboys a reason to shut up because a staff-wielder already got in the game.

Boo as an assist trophy would be brokenly awesome. As a standalone character? Not really.

Yes please. Krystal can burn for all I care. Leon is my candidate for the next Star Fox rep.

And I'm a big fan of King Boo, and while he would make an awesome character, he would be far more than broken. As an AT? Sure, why not.

I'm ashamed that Birdo didn't even make the AT cut. She's been around since the early days and hasn't been repped in Smash Bros except for a cameo in the Super Mario Bros. 2 stage in Melee.

ROOOOY! · Nov 9, 2008

Shadow Mario should definately be a costume.
It'd be a waste of a character spot really.

Red Arremer · Nov 9, 2008

Spire III said:
Yes please. Krystal can burn for all I care. Leon is my candidate for the next Star Fox rep.

+1000 sympathy points. <3

SkylerOcon · Nov 9, 2008

I think Shadow Mario would be an awesome FS.

WAIT!

Better idea, when you use his Final Smash, Bowser Jr. swipes his paintbrush forwards. If it hits, he turns into a shadow version of that character. From there:

A) He becomes a buffed version of that character. Godly priority, high damage, high knockback, and invincibility. He steals there moveset.

B) Turns to a cutscene of Jr. graffiti-ing the level. The other person gets blamed by the Delfino Cops and is hit for MASSIVE DAMAGE!

C.Olimar788 · Nov 9, 2008

AAAAGH SO MANY MAGIKARPS... o_o;

And Zelda still has a few characters that could be good. Vaati and Tingle (though he could easily be his own icon) for example.

Vyse · Nov 9, 2008

The old characters need to come back. Or at least give me a Dr. Mario alt costume.
I also wanted Dixie. She'd be awesome.

Bowser King · Nov 9, 2008

Spire III said:
Yes please. Krystal can burn for all I care. Leon is my candidate for the next Star Fox rep.

He's appeared in 1 game witha minor role -_-

He's far from wanted...

Bring back Mewtwo :,,(
- :bowser:

Bowser King

Barge · Nov 9, 2008

ROOOOY! said:
Shadow Mario should definately be a costume.
It'd be a waste of a character spot really.

I agree with this, theres only one true mario.
He's what all true warriors strive for.

mah boi

Spire · Nov 9, 2008

bowser king said:
He's appeared in 1 game witha minor role -_-

He's far from wanted...

Bring back Mewtwo :,,(
-Bowser King

Leon has been in every Star Fox game, except SFA

He is Falco's equivalent of Wolf.

Fox : Wolf :: Falco : Leon

ROOOOY! · Nov 9, 2008

Barge said:
mah boi

What you mean like my sig? =D

Anyone think if an F-zero wii came out they'd be deserving of two reps?

SkylerOcon · Nov 9, 2008

bowser king said:
He's appeared in 1 game witha minor role -_-

He's far from wanted...

Bring back Mewtwo :,,(
-Bowser King

Leon's been in every Star Fox game (except SFA, which I pretend doesn't exist). He's had more than a minor role (member of Star Wolf), and has the most original moveset potential out of all the Star Fox characters (Assuming Bowser Jr. takes the helm of staff-wielder, which he probably will).

ROOOOY! said:
Anyone think if an F-zero wii came out they'd be deserving of two reps?

F-Zero is deserving of two reps already. I demand Black Shadow as the replacement for Ganon's clone moveset.

Barge · Nov 9, 2008

I 110% support the bring back mewtwo petition.

He was a great character, and is no in any way shape or form like lucario

Thrillhouse-vh. · Nov 9, 2008

Bowser Jr.

From ****ing Super Mario Sunshine, aka the worst game of all-time.

Really?

Vyse · Nov 9, 2008

Spire III said:
Leon has been in every Star Fox game, except SFA

He is Falco's equivalent of Wolf.

Fox : Wolf :: Falco : Leon

Leon would probably be an assist trophy.
Waluigi is in the same predicament.

[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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