PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

ColinJF · Nov 23, 2008

Dedede's shield is easy to shield stab and you can space yourself so you won't be chaingrabbed across more than the half the stage. His tilts are a bigger problem than the chaingrab.

One thing Dedede can't do is defend against pk thunder well.

Earthbound Zero · Nov 23, 2008

All characters lacking a reflector or an Fair like Marth's have a hard time defending against PK Thunder. :D PK Thunder is amazing, and not just because Simna says so.

ColinJF · Nov 23, 2008

I'm well aware that pk thunder is way too good...

Earthbound Zero · Nov 23, 2008

I know, It's just fun saying it. :D

Gaussis · Nov 23, 2008

I'm probably crazy enough to ask, but has anyone tried to tailwhip his Waddle spam instead of approaching. That sounds like fun.

_clinton · Nov 23, 2008

I've taken to trying to PK Jump him when he is trying to spam...getting 30% in a few strings is fun...btw...we need some D3 players in here...

Overall his Projectile isn't much of a problem for a Ness IMO...

However...going on...D3's best kill move IMO is his utilt...and he only needs about 101% for that or so on a mid weight like Ness...

Anyway...I'm going to put in D3's kill move data now...I'm thinking about making a guide for this stuff...They need 150% to count as a KO move ATM for me...

Horizontal KO
Jet Hammer (28 damage)-39% or so
FSmash (btw it is slower then PK Flash at 0 charge)-44%
Jet Hammer (30 damage)-47%
Trip Attack-93%
Bair-124%
Fair-125%
Fthrow-144% (Done at the side however...because of D3 and his silly Dthrow)
Jet Hammer (11 damage)-147%

Vertical KO
Grodo-75%
Utilt-101%
Landing hit of UpB-103%
Usmash-107%
Dsmash-112%
Waddle Dee's Stupid Jump Attack-144%

Gaussis · Nov 23, 2008

It seems that utilt is his only non-situational good kill move. All the others are either gimp, situational, or high-percent kills. I don't get the jet hammer. What do you mean by the damage?

_clinton · Nov 23, 2008

Gaussis said:
It seems that utilt is his only non-situational good kill move. All the others are either gimp, situational, or high-percent kills. I don't get the jet hammer. What do you mean by the damage?

Damage means where it is at when it is charging (so at close to max power it will do 28%...but at max power it does 30%)...and like every other charge move in this game pretty much...it is at it's best right before it reaches it's max power...

Also...Bair is not situational, gimp, or high-%...

Gaussis · Nov 23, 2008

Well, you have it for 124%, but at the rate they use it, it'll be stale like there's no tomorrow.

I guess you're right then.

_clinton · Nov 23, 2008

Gaussis said:
Well, you have it for 124%, but at the rate they use it, it'll be stale like there's no tomorrow. I guess you're right then.

I guess I could compare them if you want...but 1st...this

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=139061

Horizontal
PKT2(Sweetspot)-37%
Fsmash (Sweetspot)-93%
PKT2(Sourspot)-99%
Bair-118%
Bthrow-122%
Fsmash (Sourspot)-134%

Vertical
PK Flash (Full Power)-66%
Uair-142%

JST · Nov 24, 2008

ColinJF said:
In general Dedede doesn't have much defence against pk thunder.

There's something that we like to call a shield.

One thing you guys want to keep in mind is that getting shieldgrabbed by D3 is frustratingly easy. Almost every single aerial you pull against a grounded D3 needs to be retreated with the occasional exception of the fair or you will get your *** grabbed every time. Otherwise, Ness is in a bit of trouble in this match-up - D3's grab reach outranges nearly every non-projectile attack Ness has. Avoiding the grab will be the biggest problem in this match-up, which is significant because not exactly easy to avoid being grabbed, regardless of who the character is. D3 has Ness completely outclassed in ground range, and can easily trade blows with Ness in the air (However D3 has Ness completely outdone on vertical range due to his dair, uair, and to a certain extent, fair).

Assuming that D3 is able to get 3 grabs in with every CG, Ness is looking at about an average of 24-30% + a free edgeguard set-up with every grab. You will get grabbed by D3 a LOT, whether you like it or not - avoiding getting grabbed is very hard unless you ledgecamp.

Ness can put a hurt on D3, too. Like many other characters, Ness has enormous combo potential on the fat penguin. Ness can intercept D3's recovery easily too - PK Thunder until he needs to UpB, then beat his ***. Just be smart about doing it, because many D3's really know how to cover themselves while recovering.

I'd pin it at 6:4 or 65:35 D3's advantage, nothing significant enough to warrant anything higher.

One thing I'd like to mention - fighting a GOOD D3 is easily one of the most frustrating match-up in the game regardless of who you are. While the odds may not be against you, it will certainly seem like it, because D3 could just sit in his shield all day waiting for you to mess up and you won't be able to do anything about it except run in and risk a grab, and that will be easy to see coming.

btw, my opinion is kinda botched, because I've only faced a good Ness like, twice.

thesage · Nov 24, 2008

I don't get how the fact that Ness is able to sheildgrabbed = it's a bad matchup. That applys to every single character in this game vs. every other character (Except like GaW).

It's pretty easy to avoid getting grabbed outside of ledgecamp. Play against an IC's player more often =p.

Ness shouldn't really use pkt to edgeguard DDD. Dair beats DDD's up b sometimes.

The only aerial Ness players have to watch out for is his bair, which is a really good move.

The cg -> edgeguard is frustrating but if your experienced enough you can get out of being edgeguarded without using pkt.

If you have to recover with pkt2 against DDD you're dead. He has waaaaay too many options to edgeguard you.

I'd put it at 60 - 40 DDD but for myself it's like the other way around. I just don't find DDD that hard, but everybody else does so w/e.

xoxokev · Nov 24, 2008

JST said:
Almost every single aerial you pull against a grounded D3 needs to be retreated with the occasional exception of the fair or you will get your *** grabbed every time.

That's true. But then, Ness has to retreat his aerials against pretty much every other character anyway...

JST · Nov 24, 2008

thesage said:
I don't get how the fact that Ness is able to sheildgrabbed = it's a bad matchup. That applys to every single character in this game vs. every other character (Except like GaW).

It's pretty easy to avoid getting grabbed outside of ledgecamp. Play against an IC's player more often =p.

IC have a terrible grab range though, and it's easy to separate them. D3 not only has a quick, enormous grab reach, but he still has the tools to pressure you into a grab (Actually, just a projectile). If avoiding being grabbed was so easy, then the Wario vs. D3 match-up wouldn't be bad at all, since Wario is one of the hardest characters in the game to grab (It's listed as 20-80 D3's adv).

The fact that D3 can easily grab you with every single approach you make unless you're perfect on your spacing, approach, and retreat is pretty significant imo, because every time you approach, there's a huge risk involved.

edit: btw, simply getting grabbed isn't the point. The point is that Ness can and will be grabbed a LOT.

Ness shouldn't really use pkt to edgeguard DDD. Dair beats DDD's up b sometimes.

The dair only beats D3's UpB while he's on the way down or at the very peak. Otherwise, D3 will just power through all attempts to edgeguard him. pkt is the best option because it doesn't care about airdodgeing and forces D3 to use his UpB.

However, I think that D3's fair can nullify Ness's pkt. I can't be bothered to check though (Actually I don't have a Wii).

The only aerial Ness players have to watch out for is his bair, which is a really good move.

Don't dismiss D3's other aerials so quickly. Dair's hitbox is so huge and long it's stupid. There is no attack that Ness has aside from projectiles that can outreach it or beat it's priority. It's huge enough that it has some deceptive horizontal range too. Fair is still a decent aerial with an enormous disjointed hitbox and a dangerous kill move at high %'s.

The cg -> edgeguard is frustrating but if your experienced enough you can get out of being edgeguarded without using pkt.

If the D3 is experienced enough he will be able to hit you at least once while Ness makes his way back to the stage. Actually, not really, but the chances of him hitting you are pretty high. Especially since Ness's recovery and double jump aren't exactly stellar. And the fact that D3 can force you below the ledge easily at the end of every CG.

I'd put it at 60 - 40 DDD but for myself it's like the other way around. I just don't find DDD that hard, but everybody else does so w/e.

Funny that you'd say that, since I find Ness easy, regardless of what character I am (It's easiest as D3 tho). Maybe both our opinions are botched, since we don't have much experience.

Or maybe the D3s you're playing aren't playing gay enough. Who knows.

I stand by 6:4, though I'm personally leaning towards 65:35.

xoxokev · Nov 24, 2008

JST said:
Especially since Ness's recovery and double jump aren't exactly stellar.

Oh, but Ness' second jump IS stellar :lick:

EDIT: p.s. they're discussing Ness on the C. Falcon match-up thread over at the C. Falcon board... if you wanna check that out

Uffe · Nov 24, 2008

I agree with a lot of what JST is saying. I've been able to escape D3's chain grabs and that could simply be due to the other player using it incorrectly. D3's hit box is ridiculous, too. I mean this is what made me ask why he hasn't been positioned in banning. This character has some outrageous tilts, his smashes are slow but very wide as far as his hit box goes, he has possibly the best spot dodge I've ever come across that you're probably better off using your RAR on him whenever you approach him. You can cancel his Goons with PK Fire, yes, but he can just keep tossing them and toss them over the PK Fire, so it's almost pointless to even bother trying.

No point in using your up aerial on him, either. He can come down with his down aerial and cancel your attack with ease. I know some Ness mains like fighting him and probably have an easier time against him, which could be because you've dealt with this sort of match up and so you're used to it, but D3 is not as easy as some here might think. And yes, his grab is too good. Don't even bother spot dodging D3, either. Some attacks come out with multiple hits.

ViceGrip · Nov 25, 2008

In theory Ness should actually have the advantage. Ness can outcamp d3 and force him to appraoch and d3 doesn't have much approaching options besides the bair and the fair beats that. I'd go into more but 4 now i'm just gonna say that in theory Ness should have a slight advantage but most d3's give me a lot of trouble. So realistically in tournaments i've found the matchup to be either 60/40 d3 or 55/45 d3.i think it's cause I don't prefer to camp because I like to go after combos and such but i'll camp d3's more in future matches. And Uffe, if a d3 is failing to chaingrab it's cause it's online or they just suck. There's no excuse for a d3 to ever fail their cg on ness offline.

Uffe · Nov 25, 2008

Well I wouldn't say they suck as playing the character, seeing I've dealt with more than just one D3 who has attempted to chain grab me while I was Ness. But like I stated before, that could simply be due to the other player using it incorrectly. Of course you know, I fought a D3 today which was online but in the same state as me, so there was no lag present. At least I didn't feel any. But anyway, I remembered this discussion and I was able to defeat him twice. We played some matches before he brought out D3. The last two matches he was using D3. I noticed him using his Goon Farming, chain grabbing, bair, d-tilt and spot dodging. Nair and dair are obviously good if D3 is spot dodging. Reverse aerial rush is also another good thing. Not auto-RAR (the one where you use B-sticking), but just RAR.

Anyway, he decided to chain grab me and after once or twice, I would spot dodge or jump out at an angle and wasn't grabbed. Of course after that method was working, he decided to try and use his dash attack on me which is when D3 does a body slam. Of course he'd try and f-smash me on different occasions. However, I was able to shield against it every time. But anyway, this brings me back to the question if it is actually possible to spot dodge or jump out of D3's chain grab? I'm sure that D3 is supposed to just walk towards his opponent just like Falco to do a chain grab, but I can't say for sure that it's the same for D3.

Each D3 player or main usually runs at me when they attempt to chain grab. But when I tried D3 out, I'd either walk or not even move when I did his chain grab.

_clinton · Nov 25, 2008

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152392

Ness is on the chain grab list...however...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182681

He also has to worry about this...

Still...it's not like Ness is helpless...D3 is one match were I think the bat truly shines in...PK Jump with 0 lag landing + Bat does seem to work very well because D3's fatass says it needs a bat to the head...

(actually...PK Jump is very useful if you get good at 0 lag endings in general...it pretty much gives you a follow up 99.99% of the time IMO...except on Mario, Zelda, Sonic, Marth, Ike, and a few others who have counters to the pillar...but still...it is overall easier to hit them right)

I don't know...I for one feel Ness has the overall advantage on D3 by a bit...but my matches with the bird do seem to be random overall (with the same people ok)

PMKNG · Nov 25, 2008

I'd have to say 60-40 in DDDs favor

I play Seibrik, as I've mentioned in another thread who is one of the best DDD's in Florida, and from what I've heard he plays "differently" than most DDD's. Idk, but it's a pretty hard match up against him.

My cousin plays DDD occasionally but against him its no prob.

Alphatron · Nov 25, 2008

Dedede's fsmash out prioritizes PK Fire. If the Ness is predictable, PK Jumping will probably get him killed.

Uffe · Nov 25, 2008

Alphatron said:
Dedede's fsmash out prioritizes PK Fire. If the Ness is predictable, PK Jumping will probably get him killed.

How do you combat this? Firebound.

PKMNG: How does this D3 play differently? I've come across many who chain grab and do that Goon Farming, but each one had their own little way of using the character. Some were just more difficult than others.

JST · Nov 25, 2008

_clinton said:
Still...it's not like Ness is helpl...it's still a frustrating match-up for me. ._.

PKNintendo · Nov 25, 2008

JST said:
Just be weary if the PK fire doesn't hit (ie: He powershields it, or he shields it and rolls backwards, etc). Landing near a grounded D3 who isn't in considerable hitstun is in general one of the stupidest things you can do in Brawl (Right up there with trying to gimp MK). SHAD, SH aerial, whatever - if you do any of these and land anywhere near D3 (Yes, even if you're behind him - D3 has a pretty ridiculous turnaround-grab OOS and an obscene dashing pivot grab), you're going to get grabbed.

Ness is by no means helpless, but you can bet that this match-up is frustrating. I main D3, and it's still a frustrating match-up for me. ._.

Hehe. JST, (in your opinion) does Ness do better than the other low tiers? (like Sonic, Mario, PT e.c.t)

ColinJF · Nov 25, 2008

Ness isn't low tier and your "e.c.t" thing is really starting to annoy me. The phrase is et cetera and sometimes we abbreviate "cetera" to "c." to get "etc." And the match ups of Dedede versus random other characters aren't really relevant to this forum.

Anyway...

PKNintendo · Nov 25, 2008

ColinJF said:
Ness isn't low tier and your "e.c.t" thing is really starting to annoy me. The phrase is et cetera and sometimes we abbreviate "cetera" to "c." to get "etc." And the match ups of Dedede versus random other characters aren't really relevant to this forum.

Anyway...

Ness is midish I know. But if I say it, I'll get text *****.

Chill. I love Ness as much as the next guy but you don't want to get textraped. It

h.u.r.t.s.

And at Al. If you EVER get hit by DDD's Fsmash, get out. NOW!

_clinton · Nov 25, 2008

JST said:
Just be weary if the PK fire doesn't hit (ie: He powershields it, or he shields it and rolls backwards, etc). Landing near a grounded D3 who isn't in considerable hitstun is in general one of the stupidest things you can do in Brawl (Right up there with trying to gimp MK). SHAD, SH aerial, whatever - if you do any of these and land anywhere near D3 (Yes, even if you're behind him - D3 has a pretty ridiculous turnaround-grab OOS and an obscene dashing pivot grab), you're going to get grabbed.

Ness is by no means helpless, but you can bet that this match-up is frustrating. I main D3, and it's still a frustrating match-up for me. ._.

PK Jump's lag cancel is done with the air dodge by me (The starts of Fair, Bair, and Uair don't have enough time to get out)...but it is also done with Nair...to hit anyone who gets too close

thesage · Nov 26, 2008

I refrained from responding for so long cuz I knew this would take a long time.

JST said:
IC have a terrible grab range though, and it's easy to separate them. D3 not only has a quick, enormous grab reach, but he still has the tools to pressure you into a grab (Actually, just a projectile).

A single IC can still cg Ness. Almost everybody's grab speed is the same save for like Zelda so that doesn't matter. Yes he has a lot of range. Yes he can sheildgrab you. So can every other character. Waddle Dee's, Doo's, and Gordo's don't really pressure people into a grab cuz there's simply way to much stuff Ness can do to avoid them.

JST;5920968 If avoiding being grabbed was so easy said:
I'm 100% sure that whether somebody has a grab release on Wario or not, doesn't make the matchup vs. him. I know absolutely nothing about Wario so I can't really comment on this. I don't even know what ddd can do out of a wario that' sbeen grab released.

JST said:

The fact that D3 can easily grab you with every single approach you make unless you're perfect on your spacing, approach, and retreat is pretty significant imo, because every time you approach, there's a huge risk involved.

Click to expand...

Again that happens vs. every other character in the game. No it doesn't matter. That's brawl. Very few attacks are safe when the hit a shield. This isn't anything Ness or DDD specific at all.

JST said:

edit: btw, simply getting grabbed isn't the point. The point is that Ness can and will be grabbed a LOT.

Click to expand...

That's not the point at all actually. The point is that he can cg Ness and lead into a possible edgeguard. Good players, in general, should not be getting grabbed at all. Ness is probably one of the easiest characters to avoid being grabbed (unless you play with pkt a lot, which you shouldn't).

JST said:

The dair only beats D3's UpB while he's on the way down or at the very peak. Otherwise, D3 will just power through all attempts to edgeguard him. pkt is the best option because it doesn't care about airdodgeing and forces D3 to use his UpB.

Click to expand...

I knew that and dair is still the best option. Pk flash is to easily avoidable if he doesn't have to use his up-b and pkt doesn't work well against a DDD that has time to predict it and is in the air.

JST said:

However, I think that D3's fair can nullify Ness's pkt. I can't be bothered to check though (Actually I don't have a Wii).

Click to expand...

Every attack does. DDD would be better off using dair or bair as those have less startup time.

JST said:

Don't dismiss D3's other aerials so quickly. Dair's hitbox is so huge and long it's stupid. There is no attack that Ness has aside from projectiles that can outreach it or beat it's priority. It's huge enough that it has some deceptive horizontal range too. Fair is still a decent aerial with an enormous disjointed hitbox and a dangerous kill move at high %'s.

Click to expand...

Both of those moves have enormous startup times (especially fair) and I've gotten Ness' uair to trade hits with DDD's dair. Why would DDD use dair or fair anyways (besides fair for killing and dair for edgeguarding) since his bair is definitely a way better option every time.

JST said:

If the D3 is experienced enough he will be able to hit you at least once while Ness makes his way back to the stage. Actually, not really, but the chances of him hitting you are pretty high. Especially since Ness's recovery and double jump aren't exactly stellar. And the fact that D3 can force you below the ledge easily at the end of every CG..

Click to expand...

Ness' dj is amazing and takes him almost as far as some character's entire recoveries. He can also airdodge during it >_>; If he pkt2's he's screwed though.

Ness also shouldn't be forced under the stage at the end of a cg. He should be di'ing upwards and then dj -> airdodge. I said experienced since the timing of the airdodge is entirely dependent on how well the Ness player can read an opponent and how well DDD can make himself unpredictable. That's up to who is a better player though.

JST said:

Funny that you'd say that, since I find Ness easy, regardless of what character I am (It's easiest as D3 tho). Maybe both our opinions are botched, since we don't have much experience.

Click to expand...

Probably because there are 8 decent Ness (including me and that's pushing the limit) who go to tournaments and you probably haven't played one of them yet.

JST said:

Or maybe the D3s you're playing aren't playing gay enough. Who knows.

Click to expand...

Omni was definitely gay enough and is one of the best players in my region.

JST said:

I stand by 6:4, though I'm personally leaning towards 65:35.

Click to expand...

I said 6:4. Personally for me it's a 4:6 cuz I play weird.

Masky · Nov 26, 2008

An old video but IMO this is how Ness should fight DDD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOttqA0X9XQ

Ness does better against DDD than he does against other high tier characters (Snake, MK)

PMKNG · Nov 26, 2008

Uffe said:
PKMNG: How does this D3 play differently? I've come across many who chain grab and do that Goon Farming, but each one had their own little way of using the character. Some were just more difficult than others.

Idk, some of the other top players just said that he played weird. I know he doesn't use goons, only when he's forced to camp.

Idk, I know for the ness DDD matchup, I just HATE, back air to back air to back air ledge gaurding.

PKNintendo · Nov 26, 2008

We need more players!

Im going to put Ness at 6-4 adv on DDD if they don't show up. That should light them up!

_clinton · Nov 26, 2008

Masky said:
An old video but IMO this is how Ness should fight DDD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOttqA0X9XQ

Ness does better against DDD than he does against other high tier characters (Snake, MK)

That D3 wasn't being gay enough...along with the Ness IMO...but whatever

And IMO...Snake isn't that bad for Ness...but whatever

Masky · Nov 27, 2008

_clinton said:
That D3 wasn't being gay enough...along with the Ness IMO...but whatever

And IMO...Snake isn't that bad for Ness...but whatever

It's an old vid... but if you have any more specific suggestions please tell me so I can improve. Personally I think that's one of the "gay"est matches I've played since all I did was run away with retreating aerials and camp the ledge.

If you don't think Snake is one of Ness's worst matchups, you haven't played a good one who knows about the grab-release to tilts on Ness. Good Snake players should be doing Jab -> Grab -> Pummel -> Ftilt on you, or replace ftilt with utilt for a free kill at 90%. But I guess Florida is also known for having good Snake players.

_clinton · Nov 27, 2008

Masky said:
It's an old vid... but if you have any more specific suggestions please tell me so I can improve. Personally I think that's one of the "gay"est matches I've played since all I did was run away with retreating aerials and camp the ledge.

If you don't think Snake is one of Ness's worst matchups, you haven't played a good one who knows about the grab-release to tilts on Ness. Good Snake players should be doing Jab -> Grab -> Pummel -> Ftilt on you, or replace ftilt with utilt for a free kill at 90%. But I guess Florida is also known for having good Snake players.

I'm aware that Snakes can do that...it's just that I don't let myself get grabbed easily for the most part a lot...but yeah...Snake can kill very fast compared to Ness if you let him...

Uffe · Nov 27, 2008

^^^ Between you and me, it doesn't seem like Snake takes much effort to learn. His tilts are waaay too strong. Also, grab > d-throw > u-tilt = death most of the time. Also, what's with the huge hitbox on his knee?

thesage · Nov 27, 2008

Um, I don't think D-throw to u-tilt will always work if you know how to tech/roll properly, like w/ gaw's d-throw.

He can still tech chase though.

Snake is definetely not as bad as I thought he was. You just need to be really agressive vs. him.

Masky · Nov 27, 2008

You guys should upload some vids of you fighting good Snake players then, if you've think you've found some way to never get grabbed and win

_clinton · Nov 27, 2008

PK Fire can screw with him a bit...because of his weight and the fact that they also take out his Dsmash (that is...if Snake uses it)

Along with PSI Magnet...when it comes to his bombs somewhat

However I'm pretty sure Snake's Pummel can lead into an Utilt on Ness...I don't know...I should check it...

And I don't know...Snake does have some things that are hard to learn though...I'd say it is an even learning rate for how to play as Snake...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYrazBvR6Mw&feature=related

Masky said:
You guys should upload some vids of you fighting good Snake players then, if you've think you've found some way to never get grabbed and win

I really only save matches that are under 3 minutes...and a lot of those aren't good IMO...but I could look into them...

Masky · Nov 27, 2008

_clinton said:
PK Fire can screw with him a bit...because of his weight and the fact that they also take out his Dsmash (that is...if Snake uses it)

Along with PSI Magnet...when it comes to his bombs somewhat

However I'm pretty sure Snake's Pummel can lead into an Utilt on Ness...I don't know...I should check it...

And I don't know...Snake does have some things that are hard to learn though...I'd say it is an even learning rate for how to play as Snake...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYrazBvR6Mw&feature=related

I really only save matches that are under 3 minutes...and a lot of those aren't good IMO...but I could look into them...

Snake can instantly DI out of PK Fire when he's hit by it, at least from the ground. PSI Magneting grenades is a gimmick and can't be used seriously IMO, I have tried it a lot and all it does is momentarily surprise the other player if they didn't know it could be done. Snake can still cook the grenade and have it explode when it's right next to you, so it doesn't bounce off. The only thing PSI Magnet is good for is if you want to force the Snake player to cook their grenades, which makes him slightly more vulnerable.

Snake CAN grab release to ftilt or utilt on Ness. If Snake players don't do this to you this makes the matchup much easier than it actually is.

If you send me a replay I can record them and upload it for you when I get back from thanksgiving break if you think it'd be helpful to other Ness players, there's also a hack for Brawl using Ocarina that let's you record matches longer than 3 minutes

_clinton · Nov 27, 2008

Masky said:
Snake can instantly DI out of PK Fire when he's hit by it, at least from the ground.

Depends on where you hit them...but whatever...I'll take your word for it...

Masky said:
PSI Magneting grenades is a gimmick and can't be used seriously IMO, I have tried it a lot and all it does is momentarily surprise the other player if they didn't know it could be done. Snake can still cook the grenade and have it explode when it's right next to you, so it doesn't bounce off.

That is usually when I come in close to him...when he is cooking it ^_^

Masky said:
The only thing PSI Magnet is good for is if you want to force the Snake player to cook their grenades, which makes him slightly more vulnerable.

More then slightly IMO...

Masky said:
Snake CAN grab release to ftilt or utilt on Ness. If Snake players don't do this to you this makes the matchup much easier than it actually is.

Yes and I'm aware that they can do that...but it doesn't mean I'll let them...
Fair can be retreated, Dair can cause Shield Stun, PK Jump/Firebound screws with them to a point as well...

Masky said:
If you send me a replay I can record them and upload it for you when I get back from thanksgiving break if you think it'd be helpful to other Ness players, there's also a hack for Brawl using Ocarina that let's you record matches longer than 3 minutes

I checked my replays...I don't have any Snake ones...3 minutes just isn't enough...

I thought I had this one of MY Snake that was pretty good vs. a Kirby...but I don't I guess...oh well...

I did just get some good Falcon videos if you want to see them though...

And yes 50% of this post is off the topic at hand :laugh:

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