Wave⁂
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- Messages
- 11,870
It bothers me when people use powershielding as "something you should do". Why not just revise the list and make it
1. Powershield everything.
/pedant
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PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]
- Thread starter Yink
- Start date
1. Powershield everything.
/pedant
Gaussis
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2008
- Messages
- 903
Wait, how is PK Fire good against Yoshi again??????? You do realize he has heavy armor frames on his DJ right? I mean at best, it will score two-three hits, and even then he can simply jump out of it. There really isn't anything to PK Fire except spacing techs and an approach method. It's not too bad, but it's job is pretty much overshadowed by an even better move in Ness's moveset (PKT).
.
Eh, the powershield is something everyone can do. Only character-exclusive advantages should only be included in matches. It works for advice though.
Grabs can't be powershielded
.Eh, the powershield is something everyone can do. Only character-exclusive advantages should only be included in matches. It works for advice though.
AdmantNESS
Smash Ace
Reading and going through the discussion again, I''ll take that pk fire part out.
I will say that though anyone can DI, then jump out of Pk Fire, but for heavy weights its harder to do so and getting hit an aerial one by a lagless aerial Pk Fire might get some dmg at low %.
Though it will be seen coming unless done unexpectedly or like you said, for spacing or an approach I suppose. Just my thoughts on it.
In any case though, my thoughts on it theoretical, ill take it out.
I will say that though anyone can DI, then jump out of Pk Fire, but for heavy weights its harder to do so and getting hit an aerial one by a lagless aerial Pk Fire might get some dmg at low %.
Though it will be seen coming unless done unexpectedly or like you said, for spacing or an approach I suppose. Just my thoughts on it.
In any case though, my thoughts on it theoretical, ill take it out.
The.End
Smash Cadet
V.s. Yoshi:
-> Most yoshi's often use the egg camp technique- which usually involves them staying on the other side of the stage, or shooting eggs from the ledge. In order to avoid this, you could shield to block them and approach with caution. I wouldn't really recommend using PKThunder to attack them from far because it will take you longer to hit them, then it would to hit you, and they can punish you for that.
-> Do not stay below yoshi, when off the stage, some Yoshis like to spike.
-> Try and punish them for using the pounding attack (downB) PK fire for example.
-> Also note that using the BackAir usually helps to break projectiles that aren't too bad, i'm not sure, since i haven't tried this out yet, but maybe try Bairing the eggs to approach?
-> The yoshis i've played usually use an Up air when you are at high % and above them, so it's not good to stay above them at high %s. Stay away from the upAir!
-> Over all, i'd say that it's a pretty even match up- they both have some good attacks that can be used, but Yoshi can outcamp Ness- not that Ness should be camping in the first place. Ness' Fair and Nair come out pretty fast compared to Yoshi's aerials so perhaps you could use that to your advantage.
I've only played a few skilled yoshis, but that's about all i can think of, that i was watching for, when playing them.
-> Most yoshi's often use the egg camp technique- which usually involves them staying on the other side of the stage, or shooting eggs from the ledge. In order to avoid this, you could shield to block them and approach with caution. I wouldn't really recommend using PKThunder to attack them from far because it will take you longer to hit them, then it would to hit you, and they can punish you for that.
-> Do not stay below yoshi, when off the stage, some Yoshis like to spike.
-> Try and punish them for using the pounding attack (downB) PK fire for example.
-> Also note that using the BackAir usually helps to break projectiles that aren't too bad, i'm not sure, since i haven't tried this out yet, but maybe try Bairing the eggs to approach?
-> The yoshis i've played usually use an Up air when you are at high % and above them, so it's not good to stay above them at high %s. Stay away from the upAir!
-> Over all, i'd say that it's a pretty even match up- they both have some good attacks that can be used, but Yoshi can outcamp Ness- not that Ness should be camping in the first place. Ness' Fair and Nair come out pretty fast compared to Yoshi's aerials so perhaps you could use that to your advantage.
I've only played a few skilled yoshis, but that's about all i can think of, that i was watching for, when playing them.
Man of Popsicle
Smash Lord
PK WHaaaaaT?
Yoshi Kirishima
Smash Lord
Yes, pivot grab is both very quick and has a long range... it outranges (as far as i know) all of ness's attacks. Yes, including PK Fire. JK 
Only outranges his melee attacks, of course.
And also Ness's fair might outrange Yoshi's bair, but not by a lot.
Nice name, Man of Popsicle XD I love those commercials!
Only outranges his melee attacks, of course.And also Ness's fair might outrange Yoshi's bair, but not by a lot.
Nice name, Man of Popsicle XD I love those commercials!
D
Deleted member
Guest
=D
Oky, i think its slightly in nesses favor:
Yoshi is pretty good at camping ness, and yoshi can do solidly defensively vs ness. Ness is kinda easy to combo, cuz his dair is slow to come out, and his nair doesnt protect him bottom. However, once you makes a mistake, hes gonna pay. Badly. If ness get the momentum, hes reaaaly hard to stop.
Me vs vice grip last match:
He is at high percent 2nd stock i just got killed.
He gets momentum, off a pk fire i think. I get 2 stocked because i take about 100 damage before setting the match back to neutral.
turnaround egg lays **** ness tho, no doubt =)
Ness' nair OOS ***** yoshi harder =P
id say 4.5-5.5 or 4-6
Dunnoz.
Skyler, dont read this, i dont want any SD nesses to be able to defeat me =P
Earthbound Zero
Smash Journeyman
I would like to do Dedede too, I remember when we where discussing him that everyone felt it was definitely in his advantage, and I still disagree. ):
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Who should we do next?
he's only the best yoshi in california 8 months out of the year
thesage
Smash Hero
DDD has gaygrab.
FireKirby7
Smash Lord
I think DDD can't hit you out of a dtilt frenzy.
Good to know. ^^
Good to know. ^^
thesage
Smash Hero
FireKirby7
Smash Lord
Maybe grab, but definately not bair. :/
I just thought of it because ALL of DDD's ground moves are sluggish.
I just thought of it because ALL of DDD's ground moves are sluggish.
PKNintendo
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2008
- Messages
- 3,679
Diddy boards ignored us. But oh well. Diddy again...
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
Nair and Fair are life savers for when it comes to catching bananas...as well as the Dash attack somewhat...my advice is to just throw them up into the air as high as you can...or at least away from Diddy somehow...because he is better by far with them then you are...
Diddy's Dash attack leads into his smashes very well as well...because it has 0 cool down time...so watch out for that...
Gimp wise I feel Ness wins...PK Thunder sort of ****s the barrel jet pack...as well as his side special...just note that a free flying jet pack to the face sucks...
His air game has some kill moves as well...
Diddy's Dash attack leads into his smashes very well as well...because it has 0 cool down time...so watch out for that...
Gimp wise I feel Ness wins...PK Thunder sort of ****s the barrel jet pack...as well as his side special...just note that a free flying jet pack to the face sucks...
His air game has some kill moves as well...
Player-1
Smash Legend
ignore ignore ignore
xoxokev
Smash Lord
Diddy is hard to gimp
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
Meh...he doesn't really feel that way for Ness...but maybe I should just get some extra fighting in...Diddy is hard to gimp
xoxokev
Smash Lord
Ness' glide toss is not much compared to Diddy's
Also...
Also...
This is half true. Banana's do make Diddy a tough opponent, but it doesn't mean without them he will suck. It really depends on how smart the Diddy plays. Diddy doesn't need bananas to win... but this doesn't matter because Diddy can pull out bananas even if you throw them away. However, you can play keep-away with Diddy's bananas... but they will eventually disappear, and Diddy can pull out new ones
M
+9999999999
PK Fire is quite easy to land on a recovering Diddy.
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
Ness' glide toss is pretty much nothing actually...which is why I think it is better to just get the naners away from Diddy some way...
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
I thought it was agreed upon in the Ike Match-up numbers listing that Ike and Ness are even?
Remember when you said a grab release jab was not enough of a reason to give Ike a slight advantage?
Guess not.
Remember when you said a grab release jab was not enough of a reason to give Ike a slight advantage?
Guess not.
Nitrix
Smash Ace
I'd say that Diddy has the advantage. I've played a few Ness's and there aren't many things that Ness can do. I'd say that Ness needs to use his aerials in this match and try to stay off the ground counterpick stages with platforms.
PK-Fire is annoying
The PK-Thunder strategy isn't that practical, mainly because Ness won't have the time to reach him with the projectile. Plus, Diddy can use his side-B to be less predictable in the air. I haven't played tons of Ness's, but Diddy is rarely gimped.
In terms of being gimped, be aware of Diddy. He has decent aerials and 2 spikes.
PK-Fire is annoying
The PK-Thunder strategy isn't that practical, mainly because Ness won't have the time to reach him with the projectile. Plus, Diddy can use his side-B to be less predictable in the air. I haven't played tons of Ness's, but Diddy is rarely gimped.
In terms of being gimped, be aware of Diddy. He has decent aerials and 2 spikes.
Gaussis
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2008
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- 903
Wait what????? When did this happen? Ness vs Ike is definitely in Ness's favor. But I'll do this another time.
It's not the head Ness will use. It's the tail. Proper use of the tail will force Diddy downward as he uses his Barrel Boost. But that's insignificant if he still has his Monkey Flip.
Nothing to really force Ness to recover in awkward ways. It's average really. I would like to know the second spike though.
I don't see how it's anywhere in Diddy Kong's favor...
Ness' Aerials over run a lot of his. Ness can gimp Diddy Kong. Diddy may have good aerials but Ness' are better. Diddy kong can gimp too, but he doesn't necessary
A long ranged dash attack combined with bananas is a useful tool that Ness has in this match up.
Ness' Glide toss is slightly below average but his ranged dash attack makes up for the distance you don't go.
Grounded Ness can dash attack yo yo grab that's like all you need grounded anyway. It's a great combination for throwing Diddy off. Grab the banana and you can land all of these with quite a bit of ease.
I'm pretty sure it's like 60-40 or 55-45 Ness advantage.
Ness will also be using Aerials mostly so that's kinda hard for Diddy to deal with at times.
You guys have been playing quite a bit of Wifi, on wifi you can't shield anything so I want you guys to throw out any wifi experience you have in this match up.
Ike vs. Ness is even for the most part the slight advantage goes to either side depending on how you look at it.
Ness' Aerials over run a lot of his. Ness can gimp Diddy Kong. Diddy may have good aerials but Ness' are better. Diddy kong can gimp too, but he doesn't necessary
A long ranged dash attack combined with bananas is a useful tool that Ness has in this match up.
Ness' Glide toss is slightly below average but his ranged dash attack makes up for the distance you don't go.
Grounded Ness can dash attack yo yo grab that's like all you need grounded anyway. It's a great combination for throwing Diddy off. Grab the banana and you can land all of these with quite a bit of ease.
I'm pretty sure it's like 60-40 or 55-45 Ness advantage.
Ness will also be using Aerials mostly so that's kinda hard for Diddy to deal with at times.
You guys have been playing quite a bit of Wifi, on wifi you can't shield anything so I want you guys to throw out any wifi experience you have in this match up.
Ike vs. Ness is even for the most part the slight advantage goes to either side depending on how you look at it.
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
Ness enjoys the air anyway...be aware that PK Thunder is by far more annoying then PK Fire...
Jigglymaster
Smash Hero
The second spike is the rocket barrel spike when your under it when diddy does it.Wait what????? When did this happen? Ness vs Ike is definitely in Ness's favor. But I'll do this another time.
It's not the head Ness will use. It's the tail. Proper use of the tail will force Diddy downward as he uses his Barrel Boost. But that's insignificant if he still has his Monkey Flip.
Nothing to really force Ness to recover in awkward ways. It's average really. I would like to know the second spike though.
Btw when i'm against ness his arieals just **** diddy's banana game. Its wiser for diddy to do the opposite if he wants to win. Once diddy stops using his bananas and starts predicting your arieals you need to stop and switch your strategy around a bit.
M
+9999999999
I believe Diddy's two spikes lie in his dair and below the launch of his up b.Nothing to really force Ness to recover in awkward ways. It's average really. I would like to know the second spike though.
Note, holding one banana for as long as safely possible limits the amount he can use against you. Though it prevents you from using aerials it can come in handy sometimes.
thesage
Smash Hero
Ike doesn't win any matchups except for vs. ganon and c.falcon. Just shield against him and you win. WOW HARD.
Diddy is gay with bananas. Personally I catch them with airdodging. I throw them at him using djc item throw, but if he's way better than me at using them I jump up and throw them upwards so he can't use them, and he can't pull any more out of his ***. Diddy is incredibly easy to spike if he uses his up-b. His side-b is hard for me to edgeguard, but I never try to edgeguard using pk fire.
Diddy is gay with bananas. Personally I catch them with airdodging. I throw them at him using djc item throw, but if he's way better than me at using them I jump up and throw them upwards so he can't use them, and he can't pull any more out of his ***. Diddy is incredibly easy to spike if he uses his up-b. His side-b is hard for me to edgeguard, but I never try to edgeguard using pk fire.
Diddy Kong's smashes come out quick and his aerial game is fairly good versus Ness', but the main thing any Diddy Kong main ever uses is Bananas. Now I'm not saying that Diddy Kong needs his Bananas to win, but it would surely change around the match up if he didn't have them. Right now as far as his metagame goes, Diddy Kong relies on his Bananas a lot.
If you're saying that Ness has a slight advantage over Diddy Kong, then perhaps you should throw me a few pointers via PM. Because I've been looking for ways of winning against Diddy Kong and I done one method that worked really good, but failed the other time I fought my friends Diddy Kong.