COMPETITIVE Brawl+: Code Agenda

Dark Sonic · Feb 20, 2009

80% momentum was indeed a little extreme, but I honestly think 55% may be too small. That's quite a big percentage jump to make with little or no support. You guys may end up being right, but I'm going to test some values in between anyway, just to be sure.

Frogles · Feb 20, 2009

Just got done testing and found some bugs. Fox retains his momentum if he runs off the stage and does a ledge jump. Sonic still has the problem with his dash attack > jump. Shields store momentum for forward and back jumps until it's dropped.

BrutalBrutal · Feb 20, 2009

I think 80% for everyone was a little extreme, but Falcon feels just right. It feels perfect, except for the sliding (the friction code won't fit into the brawlplusery codeset). Comboing gains a lot from this: jumping off the ledge to attack people feels much more viable; combos can span greater distances as long as you land at some point during them; the characters feel responsive and not clumsy. I think 70% for most of the cast is a good idea, but Marth feels a bit overpowered, flying waaayy off the screen and double fairing people to death extremely easily, then drifting back and just getting back with up-B. It's a lot of fun but probably not a good idea to put that into the final codeset.

Actually, that's a point I'd like to emphasize: Finally, for the first time since Brawl+ has begun, have the physics felt so good. I finally have that melee feeling of power and exhilaration at the way I can make my character move fluidly and quickly. This project has come a long way.

SketchHurricane · Feb 20, 2009

Do you guys suppose we will lower hitstun yet again when the momentum codes gets finalized? One of the biggest problems with combos in the past was the knockback preventing characters from following up (many combos can just be DI'ed away to pad distance). I haven't really rocked 3.2 yet, so I don't know how the combos are holding up, but I would assume that with momentum it will be a lot easier to combo someone off stage.

CountKaiser · Feb 20, 2009

Okay, slight problem.

The new momentum code, plus friction, plus the 3.2 beta set comes out to 257 lines. I took out infinite replays, but at 254 lines, codemanager still said that I had too many. Help.

Almas · Feb 20, 2009

With any luck it will not be long before Gecko 2.0 is released. Until then, I recommend dropping either the friction modifier or using the 1 line buffer code.

CountKaiser · Feb 20, 2009

"With any luck".

I'm a little skeptical of the release of the Gecko 2.0. I feel that it won't be out for a while. >_>

Almas · Feb 20, 2009

It was due for release on the 1st of February. They are merely performing final fixes and tweaks to ensure that everything is working perfectly.

Blank Mauser · Feb 20, 2009

Dark Sonic, when you really try the code with Sonic going fast you'll know why we need better control. If you run and jump, even if you hold back for as long as possible Sonic will still go halfway across FD.

I don't think it'd be awkward at all to go "BOOM LOSE MOMENTUM" as soon as you press something. Whether it be back, or down, or maybe even a button. In vBrawl you can do a running jump and end up landing behind you. You had complete control. Don't you think new players will find shooting off 3 feet no matter how much you hold back awkward? Besides that, vBrawl's regular momentum is hardly different from the amount some characters decelerate already.

The reason characters are going farther than they did in Melee is because the characters are floatier. In Melee characters reached their peak short hop faster, therefore going into their falling state faster, therefore also being able to fastfall faster. All of these things contributed to momentum being canceled sooner. Not only that, but the controls were built around the momentum, not the other way around.

Brawl isn't built to handle air momentum, at all. There is no reason we can't have the same amount of control from Melee though. We just have to go about it in a different way to make it work with our physics. In the new code, when you airdodge your momentum is reset. My idea is the same thing except we can do it and have all our options available to us.

I also don't see any reason to not give people full momentum other than to nerf the characters. I understand its just to keep them stable now, but we should make it a goal for better handling instead of making most the characters the same with hardly any benefit. I don't know, but I just can't fathom anything lower than 80. IMO it should be even higher. @_@

Yeroc · Feb 20, 2009

You could also try using the old Code Manager. It didn't have problems with faulty line restrictions.

CountKaiser · Feb 20, 2009

Blank Mauser said:
Dark Sonic, when you really try the code with Sonic going fast you'll know why we need better control. If you run and jump, even if you hold back for as long as possible Sonic will still go halfway across FD.

I don't think it'd be awkward at all to go "BOOM LOSE MOMENTUM" as soon as you press something. Whether it be back, or down, or maybe even a button. In vBrawl you can do a running jump and end up landing behind you. You had complete control. Don't you think new players will find shooting off 3 feet no matter how much you hold back awkward? Besides that, vBrawl's regular momentum is hardly slow compared to how much some characters decelerate already.

The reason characters are going farther than they did in Melee is because the characters are floatier. In Melee characters reached their peak short hop faster, therefore going into their falling state faster, therefore also being able to fastfall faster. All of these things contributed to momentum being canceled sooner. Not only that, but the controls were built around the momentum, not the other way around.

Brawl isn't built to handle air momentum, at all. There is no reason we can't have the same amount of control though. In the new code, when you airdodge your momentum is reset. My idea is the same thing except we can do it and have all your options available to you.

I also don't see any reason to not give people full momentum other than to nerf the characters themselves. I understand its just to keep them stable now, but we should make it a goal for better handling instead of making most the characters the same with hardly any benefit. I don't know, but I just can't fathom anything lower than 80. IMO it should be even higher. @_@

Just how quickly would a character deaccelerate should the player hold back on the control stick? Instant loss of momentum? The only people who have real control problems with momentum are Sonic and Falcon, since they run so fast. This is why their momentum is at 70 or 60%. Any higher and they jump across the entire stage, which is ridiculous. Perhaps better control would fix this, but they would have to slow down rather quickly compared to everyone else.

Their speed was lowered so that they can actually combo. Jumping the length of FD may be good for a suprise attack, but after that comboing is a nightmare, jumping from one end of the stage to the other. Though, chances are Sonic is supposed to be able to do that. :chuckle:

Also, what about fox? Isn't he crazy, too?

Blank Mauser · Feb 20, 2009

Just try jumping with Sonic and airdodging, thats how fast. Its not bad really, I think it'd feel perfect.

Dan_X · Feb 20, 2009

CountKaiser said:
Okay, slight problem.

The new momentum code, plus friction, plus the 3.2 beta set comes out to 257 lines. I took out infinite replays, but at 254 lines, codemanager still said that I had too many. Help.

As great as the new code manager is that counts lines, as you have found it can be buggy. It will not let you export the cheats if you are within a certain proximity of the line limit. This is definately a bug. Basically, use the new code manager to count lines and the old one to export. I've used the old version to export even when the new one said too many lines and it worked just fine. I think I had used exactly 256 lines too.

twiblets · Feb 20, 2009

i remember a while ago people were talking about djc for yoshi and ness.
is that still on the cards?

CountKaiser · Feb 20, 2009

Yeah, but new updates won't come until Gecko 2.0.

xicsrh · Feb 20, 2009

Does anyone know how much more code space we will be getting with Gecko 2.0?

Revven · Feb 20, 2009

xicsrh said:
Does anyone know how much more code space we will be getting with Gecko 2.0?

IIRC from the discussion yesterday in the IRC, Almas said we have like thousands of lines in unused memory on Brawl (and ONLY Brawl). They left a HUUUGE amount left and we'd pretty much be able to use all of that for whatever we need.

Dan_X · Feb 20, 2009

I thought Gecko 2.0 would enable 512 lines (2x 256). However, we'd use to separate files, each containing 256 lines. Is that correct?

Almas · Feb 20, 2009

No.

The File Patching feature allows for 256 patches. But there is no restriction on the length of each patch length. We'd be using 3-4 patches of 50-200 lines each.

Brawl has specific areas of memory (most notably the 805A8000 region) which are completely unused. Or maybe they're used in SSE. I don't care enough to find out.

We can use this area to dump some of our constants (the ones linked to other codes, mainly. You can't patch things like the hitstun constant because the game re-writes them at the start of every match), as well as any ASM codes.

The 256 line restriction is still in effect, but a lot less goes against it. All of our codes combined would probably sum to about 50 of those lines.

Finns7 · Feb 20, 2009

Put Link at 70, he doesnt need 80, thats too much unless that control code is out but it still feels like to much for him.

Jiangjunizzy · Feb 20, 2009

what are chances these code patches will function online?

Dan_X · Feb 20, 2009

Almas said:
No.

The File Patching feature allows for 256 patches. But there is no restriction on the length of each patch length. We'd be using 3-4 patches of 50-200 lines each.

Brawl has specific areas of memory (most notably the 805A8000 region) which are completely unused. Or maybe they're used in SSE. I don't care enough to find out.

We can use this area to dump some of our constants (the ones linked to other codes, mainly. You can't patch things like the hitstun constant because the game re-writes them at the start of every match), as well as any ASM codes.

The 256 line restriction is still in effect, but a lot less goes against it. All of our codes combined would probably sum to about 50 of those lines.

Oh I see, interesting.

As a side note, I tested Beta 3.2. I didn't have enough time to check out each change, appreciating all of them, however I liked what I saw. I also used the momentum code in the OP of this thread, in combination with beta 3.2 Everything went smoothly until the game crashed right before my friend and I finished playing.

We were playing FD, Falcon vs Peach, and it froze just as I (Falcon) was KOed off the left side of the screen. So, not sure, why it happened. Was it the momentum code? Something in the Beta 3.2? Has anyone else experienced this with momentum plus beta 3.2?

Revven · Feb 20, 2009

Orca said:
I also used the momentum code in the OP of this thread, in combination with beta 3.2 Everything went smoothly until the game crashed right before my friend and I finished playing.

We were playing FD, Falcon vs Peach, and it froze just as I (Falcon) was KOed off the left side of the screen. So, not sure, why it happened. Was it the momentum code? Something in the Beta 3.2? Has anyone else experienced this with momentum plus beta 3.2?

Were you holding any direction on the control stick? ph00t reported in another thread that if you hold the control stick in a direction (most notably, down) the game freezes/causes a black screen. Test it maybe? I dunno.

goodoldganon · Feb 20, 2009

Sorry, family issues came up and now I'm all outta the loop. So I just copy both of Kupos codes posted in the OP and that should be giving everyone momentum codes without the walk offs and specials being affected? Or can someone just link me the code we are using now? Thanks for the help and sorry for the inconvenience.

ShortFuse · Feb 20, 2009

Almas said:
No.

The File Patching feature allows for 256 patches. But there is no restriction on the length of each patch length. We'd be using 3-4 patches of 50-200 lines each.

Brawl has specific areas of memory (most notably the 805A8000 region) which are completely unused. Or maybe they're used in SSE. I don't care enough to find out.

We can use this area to dump some of our constants (the ones linked to other codes, mainly. You can't patch things like the hitstun constant because the game re-writes them at the start of every match), as well as any ASM codes.

The 256 line restriction is still in effect, but a lot less goes against it. All of our codes combined would probably sum to about 50 of those lines.

Can't you use some ASM code to generate your float values and putting them in memory instead of hardcoding it? I know you reference to use less space but how about operation ASM code to generate them instead?

kupo15 · Feb 20, 2009

basically ganon

spunit262 · Feb 20, 2009

ShortFuse said:
Can't you use some ASM code to generate your float values and putting them in memory instead of hardcoding it? I know you reference to use less space but how about operation ASM code to generate them instead?

That's what I did with my "8-bit fixed-points".

Dan_X · Feb 20, 2009

Falco400 said:
Were you holding any direction on the control stick? ph00t reported in another thread that if you hold the control stick in a direction (most notably, down) the game freezes/causes a black screen. Test it maybe? I dunno.

Hmm. If I were to guess, I'd say I was holding the analog stick to the right, DIing towards the stage. Aside from that, I'll try to pay attention to what causes it if it happens again. I won't be bale to play for a few days though, I've got a splendid work-filled weekend ahead of me.

ShortFuse · Feb 20, 2009

spunit262 said:
That's what I did with my "8-bit fixed-points".

I say this because of the Jump/Grav values are 16 (+1 for Bowser SAF) hardcoded values that can be calculated as float.

Almas · Feb 20, 2009

They'll function just as well as any other code, provided you both have the same set.

EDIT: Yeah, it's possible to write the code like that. But I don't really see why I'd want to at this point in time. Spunit allows more freedom in values chosen with his method, but mine requires less space, I believe.

kupo15 · Feb 20, 2009

spunit why isn't this loading?
If you look at the OP, iggly told me we can split the code up like that and this should replace the green for the char specific.

2F46096D 146D2260
19460546 1E461F46
0A432343 004D1633
FF400000 00000000

mario 60
Kirby 55
Squirt 55
ivy 55
ness 52
rob 52
oli 55
sonic 55
falcon 85
ganon 85
ike 75
falco 82
Fox 75
everyone 50

spunit262 · Feb 20, 2009

kupo15 said:
spunit why isn't this loading?
If you look at the OP, iggly told me we can split the code up like that and this should replace the green for the char specific.

2F46096D 146D2260
19460546 1E461F46
0A432343 004D1633
FF400000 00000000

mario 60
Kirby 55
Squirt 55
ivy 55
ness 52
rob 52
oli 55
sonic 55
falcon 85
ganon 85
ike 75
falco 82
Fox 75
everyone 50

Post the top line too.

Almas, The hook point for friction is literally right before yours, the id is 12016

Adapt · Feb 20, 2009

Hey guys, I'm not too versed in messing with this stuff yet, can someone help me set this up for the momentum code?

Sonic: 50%
CF: 70%
MK: 70%
Everyone: 80%
Falco: 85%
Ganon: 90%

kupo15 · Feb 20, 2009

this one?
065A9180 00000006

here is my whole code

Code:

momentum mod
048668AC 60000000
C28669D8 00000017
C04283D8 FC811040
418600A4 807D007C
A0830006 80630038
2C040003 4182000C
2C040004 40A20088
2C03000B 40A20078
3C008180 809D0008
8084FFFC 7C040000
4080000C 80840030
48000008 3880FFFF
3C004780 901B000C
C05B000C 38A2FE5E
8CC50002 88E50001
7CC60775 4180000C
7C062000 4082FFEC
B0FB000E C01B000C
FC001028 40A40008
FC000050 C05B0018
FC420032 FC011040
4C002182 40800008
FC201090 2C030022
40800008 D03B0008
60000000 00000000

Code:

Momentum data

C277F798 00000003
2C1C000A 40A00008
B39E0006 7C1C0000
60000000 00000000
065A9180 00000006
[COLOR="PaleGreen"]2F46096D 146D2260
19460546 1E461F46
0A432343 004D1633
FF400000 00000000[/COLOR]

Almas · Feb 20, 2009

Wait, what, spunit? I'm totally not on the same page as you.

Every line of code is +8 to the first line.

Half a line is +4, so it's +2 per character.

Written in hex.

You've written 3 lines and one character, which is 8*3+2=0x1A

spunit262 · Feb 20, 2009

I mean you need to add it to your "Launch Power Modifier" code.

kupo15 · Feb 20, 2009

what do you mean? Add what? I am really confused why its not loading the codes. Modding this code is a piece of cake

Almas · Feb 20, 2009

Oh right, I think I know what you mean. I'll have to have a peek at that. It's a pretty awesome find, since I probably saw it and didn't realise what it did ;p.

abcool · Feb 20, 2009

kupo does ya momentum code work?

kupo15 · Feb 20, 2009

no it doesnt. It makes NO sense. When I use this:

2F46096D 146D2260
0660FF40 00000000

Falcon 85%
Ike 75%
Fox 75%
Ganon 85%
Sonic 55%
Everyone 50%

It works.

When I use this:

2F46096D 146D2260
0660004D 1633FF40

Falcon 85%
Ike 75%
Fox 75%
Ganon 85%
Sonic 55%
Mario 60%
Mk 45%
Everyone 50%

It doesn't work. Why not!?

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