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Analyzing projectile properties and in game stategies with them
- Thread starter Disfunkshunal
- Start date
Hyro
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,386
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
Aight'. By Wednesday night I'll be back for vids. I have IB spanish orals so...yeah... But Wednesday I can get your vid and post it ^^
Just watched the vid... I see I am not needed here...
Just watched the vid... I see I am not needed here...
o_O;
I'd have just referred to it as a B-reversal, because at the root of it, you're just doing a manual B-reversal such that you're facing forward at the end.
like, you start a B-reversal in the opposite direction so in the end you face forward.
But if you wanna call it by a new name, fine as long as people know what you're talking about.
lolol sorry for going off topic, I had seen someone link to the post where he claimed to have discovered it, and it looked way too familiar for me XD;;
aha.
oh, IB. Silly evil scientists in Geneva.
good luck with that, xD
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
<3 Tenki
BTW So... Has anyone found a use for SMS? I can do it perfectly now, but I dunno... Doesn't really do anything... I have been doing it with other characters also. Picachu's side-b is hilarious
BTW So... Has anyone found a use for SMS? I can do it perfectly now, but I dunno... Doesn't really do anything... I have been doing it with other characters also. Picachu's side-b is hilarious
Chip.
you know what to do
This looks like a great thread. I don't really see any spam either!
Random mod who closed this: I suggest you discuss with me before you close a thread since I am the primary mod of this forum. Thanks.
-Chip outz
Random mod who closed this: I suggest you discuss with me before you close a thread since I am the primary mod of this forum. Thanks.
-Chip outz
Sosuke
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
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- 25,073
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- 8132-9932-4710
We love you Chip. =)
So yeah, about the bomb spike on FD:
SANTI!!!
If you lay it at that certain place, could a hitbox the size of MK's shuttle Loop hit it??
Maybe we can drop a bomb ON the stage and have him explode it himself?
Cuz if it could, that would be awesome.
If it can't, then its gonna be like, impossible to land the stage spike with it. @_@
Unless you just throw the bomb down. =P
But its still pretty hard.
So yeah, about the bomb spike on FD:
SANTI!!!
If you lay it at that certain place, could a hitbox the size of MK's shuttle Loop hit it??
Maybe we can drop a bomb ON the stage and have him explode it himself?
Cuz if it could, that would be awesome.
If it can't, then its gonna be like, impossible to land the stage spike with it. @_@
Unless you just throw the bomb down. =P
But its still pretty hard.
Hyro
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,386
Totally worth the infraction.
Anyways, what's an SMS?
And Sasuke, I remember someone talking about them, they think MK might just like...super armor it or something?
Thanks Chippy!
As I said on another thread because this one was down,
About the Slope bombing technique; I figured out that if the sliding bomb so much as touches your opponents shield, the bomb will randomly jump up. Also the sliding bomb can be reflected but there are two possible outcomes if it is. If the bomb is sliding/grinding slowly down the slope and it is reflected, the bomb will simply stop sliding. If the bomb is tumbling/rolling down the slope (still with the white aura) and it is reflected, the bomb will continue sliding but it will change sides so to speak. It will slide past the reflector, won't explode on them (unless of course it runs out of time) and it will now jump if it touches your shield.
Right.
As I said on another thread because this one was down,
About the Slope bombing technique; I figured out that if the sliding bomb so much as touches your opponents shield, the bomb will randomly jump up. Also the sliding bomb can be reflected but there are two possible outcomes if it is. If the bomb is sliding/grinding slowly down the slope and it is reflected, the bomb will simply stop sliding. If the bomb is tumbling/rolling down the slope (still with the white aura) and it is reflected, the bomb will continue sliding but it will change sides so to speak. It will slide past the reflector, won't explode on them (unless of course it runs out of time) and it will now jump if it touches your shield.
Right.
SMS stands for Special Momentum Shift, It's explained in the OP.
We recently found that the SMS can also be used to cancel your momentum when you get smashed off stage. Simply get hit, use bair as soon as you can, jump and SMS. The SMS will stop you going any further, possibly saving you from a KO.
F00LY
Smash Apprentice
I know it's not our projectile, and its situational match up, so perhaps it belongs in the match up thread, but should we also be on the lookout in this discussion for uses / combinations involving Diddy's bananas? I've recently had to play a ton of Diddy's, and it seems like TL can use them pretty **** well. We know how to work projectiles to their maximum efficiencies, and that can scare Diddy's if they lose their momentum with their own projectiles.
So yeah, just before I did any findings here as I continue to mess around with them and see what kind of stuff we can do, would it be appropriate to discuss here, or should I go find the Diddy forum?
So yeah, just before I did any findings here as I continue to mess around with them and see what kind of stuff we can do, would it be appropriate to discuss here, or should I go find the Diddy forum?
oOJaseOo
Smash Ace
I think its quite a good idea FOOLY but maybe it belongs in the match up threads
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
What do you mean?
Hyro
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,386
I was just playing around with them in training mode, I think you should definitley talk about it here. I like short hop banana throw to zair to nair. At DTL, it means I got an infraction lol
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
That sucks... BTW I love this thread and everyone in it. Ima work on that SMS momentum cancel. Maybe TL just get a bucket breaking... If so, then pretty much everyone has it as it is a universal technique
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
kinda not really... Check the video I made
Disfunkshunal
Manners Maketh Man
thanks everyone for your support when this thread was closed!
cookies for everybody.
Ill update the OP with all vids, slope bombling, sliding throw, and anything else tomorrow.
Fox i couldnt do the sliding toss but after re-reading your post, i think my timing was off.
thats it for now i think.
Edit: @ fooly
thats a good idea. ill add a section on for using ohter's proyectiles romorrow too.
alos i think ill start getting the inverse reflector info tomorrow too. I wifi'd a reflector happy falco
unless anyone objects ill have them post their thoughts in a thread made on their respective board and summarize and link hte thread in the op. My reason is since this isnt soley a reflector thread i dont want it to get filled up with it
cookies for everybody.
Ill update the OP with all vids, slope bombling, sliding throw, and anything else tomorrow.
Fox i couldnt do the sliding toss but after re-reading your post, i think my timing was off.
thats it for now i think.
Edit: @ fooly
thats a good idea. ill add a section on for using ohter's proyectiles romorrow too.
alos i think ill start getting the inverse reflector info tomorrow too. I wifi'd a reflector happy falco
unless anyone objects ill have them post their thoughts in a thread made on their respective board and summarize and link hte thread in the op. My reason is since this isnt soley a reflector thread i dont want it to get filled up with it
Toondiddy: To understand the timing, first check out the sliding Jab video, then try the sliding Jab with C Falcon, once you understand the timing, try the sliding Jab with Toon Link (the timing is ever so slightly different) Once you got that down pat, the sliding throw shouldn't be a problem.
Fooly: Sounds like a plan. I suppose we could also check out Snakes nades, Links Bombs, ROB's Gyro or even Diddy's Nuts!
The peanuts of course... ok maybe just forget the nuts all together. You get the point. I'm not sure if we want to do stuff like Wario's bike parts or Samus's Power suit parts, It's up to you guys.
Fooly: Sounds like a plan. I suppose we could also check out Snakes nades, Links Bombs, ROB's Gyro or even Diddy's Nuts!
The peanuts of course... ok maybe just forget the nuts all together. You get the point. I'm not sure if we want to do stuff like Wario's bike parts or Samus's Power suit parts, It's up to you guys.
Disfunkshunal
Manners Maketh Man
you confused me with this post at first.
1)sasuke stole my idea
2) you said the wrong thread. i dint know what you meant so i checked out bomblng like a pro and discovered santi said it before me.
2
3) i assumed it was known so i didnt post it earlyer when i found out months ago.
4) before anyone else says it, it can also happen on lylat and i have replays of both.
DTL if you have me registered then ill send you the vids of slope bombing and of bombing spiking if anyone wants to see them as soon as i get home.
@fox
kk thamks.
ill try that when i get home.
oOJaseOo
Smash Ace
i wanna know wat we could do with peachs uber turnip w/e its called
Disfunkshunal
Manners Maketh Man
I havent updated the OP in a while.
took me a while to do it today, but im finally done.
If anyone has questions/concerns, want to point out something i left out
kk
thats it for now
took me a while to do it today, but im finally done.
If anyone has questions/concerns, want to point out something i left out
kk
thats it for now
Sosuke
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 25,073
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- 8132-9932-4710
I did? o_Osasuke stole my idea
For what?
Toondiddy: I checked out the update, It's huge. Two things though, First of all the sliding bomb will randomly jump up if it hits you Opponents shield, not yours. It will only jump off of your shield if it has been reflected, that goes for both our shields btw.
Also I think one of the quotes stuffed up. Other then that awesome stuff.
Also I think one of the quotes stuffed up. Other then that awesome stuff.
TLMarth
Smash Ace
We almost have a new tech...
But most of us can't do it....
It's immediate ZAC (Z drop, Attack/aerial, catch)
And if we can do this we have mindgames.
But most of us can't do it....
It's immediate ZAC (Z drop, Attack/aerial, catch)
And if we can do this we have mindgames.
TLMarth: Do you mean Z-drop on the ground, then jump up and grab the bomb with an aerial, or Z-dropping it in the air and catching it straight away with an aerial. The second one is known, the first one might have potential.
I have been trying to find more new stuff but all I've been finding is semi-usefull lame stuff. I decided I'll list it anyway just incase someone see's it and gets a briliant idea.
First of all if you use the boomerang up really close to some characters it hits them behind you. The reason why this is? It's because the boomerangs hitbox doesn't start until just in front of you (about half a swords length) so whats really happening is your throwing it close to them but its hitting them from the other side. A similar thing can happen when you catch the returning boomerang when your standing close to the same characters, you will catch the boomerang through them and they won't get hit. Anyway here's the quick list of characters this worked on and the percentage it worked up until.
Mario 68%, Lucas 64%, Luigi 73%, Link 59%, Samus 55%, Diddy 63%, Pit 70%, IC's 71%, Ike 61%, Peach 77%, Tink 61%
With some characters it only worked when throwing the boomerang into they're back like, Shiek, Marth, Ivisaur, Charizard and Yoshi.
Anyway this could be usefull because it hits them behind you and you can easily combo them with Up-B, Up-smash, Nair or Ftilt maybe more, I haven't checked.
Lets see apart from that, Try this is you want to be wierd/random, Pull out a bomb then instantly hold shield, roll once at any point (for timing) then continue holding shield until you implode. The bomb will explode just after you start falling backdown and save you from being punished by the insane lag. Mindgames anyone? Other then that, situational and useless.
Even more useless still; How about a flash of light that does absolutely nothing except maybe distract your opponent for a split second? To do this simply run towards the edge and charge Up-B right near the edge and slide off charging. You will fall of the edge with a flash of light behind you and still be able to jump and Up-B.
Ok this post isn't a complete waste, I checked out some stuff we can do with Diddy's Bannana's. We can JC Down throw which will make us slide a decent way. To do this simply run, Jump and hit the C-stick down straight after. If you hit diddy with the down throw part, he will trip, you will slide past him and if you hit him with a Ftilt straight away, he will get hit straight back into the bannana he tripped on, it might be possible to keep him tripping on the same bannana if we continue to hit him with Ftilts, I managed to make him trip on it three times in a row.
A less possible lock: I could only do it once or twice, Back throw him into a bananna, if he lands on the right spot you can continue to back throw him back and forth a few times with him tripping on the same bananna on both sides.
And Finally a possible continous chain: Your holding the bananna, SH Down throw on his head, Bair catch, fastfall, repeat. Trust me on this, this could be big.
That's all Folks.
I have been trying to find more new stuff but all I've been finding is semi-usefull lame stuff. I decided I'll list it anyway just incase someone see's it and gets a briliant idea.
First of all if you use the boomerang up really close to some characters it hits them behind you. The reason why this is? It's because the boomerangs hitbox doesn't start until just in front of you (about half a swords length) so whats really happening is your throwing it close to them but its hitting them from the other side. A similar thing can happen when you catch the returning boomerang when your standing close to the same characters, you will catch the boomerang through them and they won't get hit. Anyway here's the quick list of characters this worked on and the percentage it worked up until.
Mario 68%, Lucas 64%, Luigi 73%, Link 59%, Samus 55%, Diddy 63%, Pit 70%, IC's 71%, Ike 61%, Peach 77%, Tink 61%
With some characters it only worked when throwing the boomerang into they're back like, Shiek, Marth, Ivisaur, Charizard and Yoshi.
Anyway this could be usefull because it hits them behind you and you can easily combo them with Up-B, Up-smash, Nair or Ftilt maybe more, I haven't checked.
Lets see apart from that, Try this is you want to be wierd/random, Pull out a bomb then instantly hold shield, roll once at any point (for timing) then continue holding shield until you implode. The bomb will explode just after you start falling backdown and save you from being punished by the insane lag. Mindgames anyone? Other then that, situational and useless.
Even more useless still; How about a flash of light that does absolutely nothing except maybe distract your opponent for a split second? To do this simply run towards the edge and charge Up-B right near the edge and slide off charging. You will fall of the edge with a flash of light behind you and still be able to jump and Up-B.
Ok this post isn't a complete waste, I checked out some stuff we can do with Diddy's Bannana's. We can JC Down throw which will make us slide a decent way. To do this simply run, Jump and hit the C-stick down straight after. If you hit diddy with the down throw part, he will trip, you will slide past him and if you hit him with a Ftilt straight away, he will get hit straight back into the bannana he tripped on, it might be possible to keep him tripping on the same bannana if we continue to hit him with Ftilts, I managed to make him trip on it three times in a row.
A less possible lock: I could only do it once or twice, Back throw him into a bananna, if he lands on the right spot you can continue to back throw him back and forth a few times with him tripping on the same bananna on both sides.
And Finally a possible continous chain: Your holding the bananna, SH Down throw on his head, Bair catch, fastfall, repeat. Trust me on this, this could be big.
That's all Folks.
Lobos
Smash Master
You're missing the part where you quickdraw when you land.
Its : Bomb > Jump > ZAC (Z bombdrop > nair) > Quickdraw
Can be used with some momentum. Timing is hard and has to be spaced. Will post more when stuff gets tested.
TLMarth
Smash Ace
Fox: second one, you have to wait for the peak. What I'm talking about is where you don't have to wait for the peak.
You said:
Even more useless still; How about a flash of light that does absolutely nothing except maybe distract your opponent for a split second? To do this simply run towards the edge and charge Up-B right near the edge and slide off charging. You will fall of the edge with a flash of light behind you and still be able to jump and Up-B.
Sauce-K knows this.
lol minor thing whatever.
Nice banana stuff!
You said:
Even more useless still; How about a flash of light that does absolutely nothing except maybe distract your opponent for a split second? To do this simply run towards the edge and charge Up-B right near the edge and slide off charging. You will fall of the edge with a flash of light behind you and still be able to jump and Up-B.
Sauce-K knows this.
lol minor thing whatever.
Nice banana stuff!
TLMarth: Ok thanks, I understand it now, I'll be sure to check it out.
Disfunkshunal
Manners Maketh Man
sounds cool ill try it and add it to the OP, along with what lobos and santi said (quickdraw at the end, use dash momentum) as soon i as i fix it
the first part: the only thing i really see wrong with it is trying to get them in that range.Lots of stuff
i didnt know about that about the boomerang hitbox, interseting.
second: like you said as of right now i only see this a possible mindgame, if you can avoid being sheildgrabbed XD.
third: like tlmarth said sasuke did some research on that
fourth: lol a banana lock against diddy. I think this would both keep diddy under control for a minute and help use the underued F-tilt( and as a result also un stale some moves).
good stuff
Idk about the throw lock though, it seems alot more situational and risky.
About the banana throw to bair to ff, i think you're really on to something. The diddy's a while ago found an unescapable combo not so different than this. the only difference is they used dair to catch the banana.
If this is like that, then we are good to go!
I know both Sant and Quivo have a fair amount of diddy experience so maybe they could also help with this.
*thinks you should share it*
Epic Stuff People. I have the Safe Spike 3.0!!!
This is completely different from the other safe spikes. This safe spike revolves around an idea I had that we can use the explosion from the bomb, to hit us hard enough upwards that if we use Dair straight away, we won't fast fall. This is confirmed. If we spike in this way, the Dair will fall slowly and you can still spike with it. If it connects, they will die, you won't pogo instead you will continue to slowly fall for a second then you can easily recover. If you miss you will slowly fall and a second or two later you will easily be able to recover, hence the safe spike.
There are a few ways to do this, all of them have their own good points but only the last one which I'm going to write has no bad points.
First way I tried: Stand near the edge and throw the bomb at your feet then hit Dair ASAP. This worked but it only worked if I was on a percentage equal to or higher then 97%
Good Points: It came out fast
Bad Points: It only worked on the left side of the stage and even then you had to be on high percent (97%) So I figured it wasn't smash boards material
(I could already hear Sasuke saying it was too situational XD)
The next thing I tried: Stand near the edge then throw a bomb up with Up-tilt or Up-smash. This also worked and the good news is it worked on any percent equal to or higher then 40%
Good Points: It worked on the right side as well because you could throw the bomb up then walk a little to the right. It worked when Toonlink was on much lower percents (40% or over)
Bad Points: This way requires timing, so meh.
The last thing I tried: This is the Safe Spike 3.0. Stand near the edge, jump then throw a bomb down as your coming down so you get hit by the bomb, then Dair ASAP.
Good points: This also works on both sides, to use it on the right side you need to jump right, throw the bomb down, Dair. This also works if your on 40% or higher and finally it comes out fast!
What does this all mean? This means that we can now safely and easily spike our opponents as long as we are on 40% or over.
Edit: The Safe Spike 3.0 just got cooler. I worked out that if you need to spike further out or if your starting the move from further on stage you can actually exdend the range of this move by doing it this way; Run, jump, throw down, Dair. This will send you further out and give this move more range. Also I worked out that if you SH, throw down straight away you can do this move even faster (by throwing the bomb down on the way up and still getting caught in the blast radius). Also You can do this move like this if you want; Run Full hop, Bomb pull, down throw, dair. The possibilities seem to be endless. Every time I do it I find something else. This could be what launches Toon link to Higher tiers. Or maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Feed back people!
Edit No.2: We can now safe spike from the ledge as well. To do this you need to be hanging from the ledge with a bomb (presumably edgeguarding) then simply hit away from the ledge, throw the bomb back towards the ledge, dair. The only difference with this and the safe spike is this only works if your on 55% or higher as opposed to 40% or higher. This also works on both sides and comes out quick so it's definately something to think about.
Edit No.3: Thanks to TLMarth we have yet another very effective way to safe spike. To do this you need to be on stage holding a bomb, then run off the edge and straight away throw the bomb back at the edge as your falling (the bomb should hit the side of the stage) then simply dair. This can be done when your on 55% and over. This is a good way to safe spike because it's actually a little faster then the original. It also only does 5% if your worried about percentage. The only things that aren't as good if not better then the original safe spike is that you have to be on a higher percent for it to work and it starts the slow falling spike further down which means that it can only hit opponents lower or level with the stage and it's harder to recover, don't get me wrong it's not too hard to recover but you have to use your Up-B and grab the ledge so there is a slight chance of gimping or ledge guarding if you miss. Once again don't get me wrong this is a really good way to safe spike and should be considered after 55%.
So summing up; We have three easy ways to safe spike on both sides of the level at low percents. Thats right, you actually have a choice! What more could you ask for?
This is completely different from the other safe spikes. This safe spike revolves around an idea I had that we can use the explosion from the bomb, to hit us hard enough upwards that if we use Dair straight away, we won't fast fall. This is confirmed. If we spike in this way, the Dair will fall slowly and you can still spike with it. If it connects, they will die, you won't pogo instead you will continue to slowly fall for a second then you can easily recover. If you miss you will slowly fall and a second or two later you will easily be able to recover, hence the safe spike.
There are a few ways to do this, all of them have their own good points but only the last one which I'm going to write has no bad points.
First way I tried: Stand near the edge and throw the bomb at your feet then hit Dair ASAP. This worked but it only worked if I was on a percentage equal to or higher then 97%
Good Points: It came out fast
Bad Points: It only worked on the left side of the stage and even then you had to be on high percent (97%) So I figured it wasn't smash boards material
(I could already hear Sasuke saying it was too situational XD)
The next thing I tried: Stand near the edge then throw a bomb up with Up-tilt or Up-smash. This also worked and the good news is it worked on any percent equal to or higher then 40%
Good Points: It worked on the right side as well because you could throw the bomb up then walk a little to the right. It worked when Toonlink was on much lower percents (40% or over)
Bad Points: This way requires timing, so meh.
The last thing I tried: This is the Safe Spike 3.0. Stand near the edge, jump then throw a bomb down as your coming down so you get hit by the bomb, then Dair ASAP.
Good points: This also works on both sides, to use it on the right side you need to jump right, throw the bomb down, Dair. This also works if your on 40% or higher and finally it comes out fast!
What does this all mean? This means that we can now safely and easily spike our opponents as long as we are on 40% or over.
Edit: The Safe Spike 3.0 just got cooler. I worked out that if you need to spike further out or if your starting the move from further on stage you can actually exdend the range of this move by doing it this way; Run, jump, throw down, Dair. This will send you further out and give this move more range. Also I worked out that if you SH, throw down straight away you can do this move even faster (by throwing the bomb down on the way up and still getting caught in the blast radius). Also You can do this move like this if you want; Run Full hop, Bomb pull, down throw, dair. The possibilities seem to be endless. Every time I do it I find something else. This could be what launches Toon link to Higher tiers. Or maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Feed back people!
Edit No.2: We can now safe spike from the ledge as well. To do this you need to be hanging from the ledge with a bomb (presumably edgeguarding) then simply hit away from the ledge, throw the bomb back towards the ledge, dair. The only difference with this and the safe spike is this only works if your on 55% or higher as opposed to 40% or higher. This also works on both sides and comes out quick so it's definately something to think about.
Edit No.3: Thanks to TLMarth we have yet another very effective way to safe spike. To do this you need to be on stage holding a bomb, then run off the edge and straight away throw the bomb back at the edge as your falling (the bomb should hit the side of the stage) then simply dair. This can be done when your on 55% and over. This is a good way to safe spike because it's actually a little faster then the original. It also only does 5% if your worried about percentage. The only things that aren't as good if not better then the original safe spike is that you have to be on a higher percent for it to work and it starts the slow falling spike further down which means that it can only hit opponents lower or level with the stage and it's harder to recover, don't get me wrong it's not too hard to recover but you have to use your Up-B and grab the ledge so there is a slight chance of gimping or ledge guarding if you miss. Once again don't get me wrong this is a really good way to safe spike and should be considered after 55%.
So summing up; We have three easy ways to safe spike on both sides of the level at low percents. Thats right, you actually have a choice! What more could you ask for?
TLMarth
Smash Ace
It's all about the bombs now
My favourite way to do it is, Your already holding a bomb, run towards the edge, SH, throw down, Dair spike. So simple yet so effective, and if you want this to be even easier, use the C-stick to throw the bomb down.
Also, as I said before, we can get longer range by running and doing the Safe Spike 3.0, well I worked out that you can get even more distance by throwing the bomb down at a certain time, which I'm going to try and descibe. Ok, you do the whole running short hop then just as your going back down throw it down. To give you a visual idea of what I mean, you want to be hit by the far side of the bombs blast radius. Just play around with it especially before you try it in any matches.
Remember, it doesn't matter if you get hit up or not with the blast, just as long as you get hit. In fact even if you manage to get hit diagonally down it will still work (this actually happened to me once or twice, I still have no idea what happened).
Anyway, who wants to make the vid?
Also, as I said before, we can get longer range by running and doing the Safe Spike 3.0, well I worked out that you can get even more distance by throwing the bomb down at a certain time, which I'm going to try and descibe. Ok, you do the whole running short hop then just as your going back down throw it down. To give you a visual idea of what I mean, you want to be hit by the far side of the bombs blast radius. Just play around with it especially before you try it in any matches.
Remember, it doesn't matter if you get hit up or not with the blast, just as long as you get hit. In fact even if you manage to get hit diagonally down it will still work (this actually happened to me once or twice, I still have no idea what happened).
Anyway, who wants to make the vid?
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
FOx- Just DI the bomb blast and dair. I got a lot of distance this way and by throwing it at an especific time like usaid. Good ****. And it doesnt take a lot of time to set up. The bad thing now is me remembering to do it in an actual battle lol with all toon link recent discoveries. Theyre too much >_> I cant remember them all >_>.