Falcon Moveset Discussion: summaries coming soon

PartyHatPikaChu · Apr 17, 2009

The both kicks hit when you hit the opponent with a certain hitbox. (The hitbox around falcons upper leg of the leg he first kicks with.).

Fun fact: when you hit with said hitbox when the opponent has a high damage percentage, they wont die, as said hitbox has the same knockback as falcons jab and the second kick will miss

LuLLo · Apr 17, 2009

PartyHatPikaChu said:
The both kicks hit when you hit the opponent with a certain hitbox. (The hitbox around falcons upper leg of the leg he first kicks with.).

Fun fact: when you hit with said hitbox when the opponent has a high damage percentage, they wont die, as said hitbox has the same knockback as falcons jab and the second kick will miss

Didn't know about that, never happened to me (and I'm glad...)
I don't know exactly when it happens or what the specific hitboxes are (will test tonight), but when someone rolls into you, you have a pretty good chance of hitting. I have used it near ledges, when an opponent recovers from the ledge with an attack, dodge it and do a D-smash, it should connect with both hits. Ofcourse, this is easily dodged, but it suffices as a surprise attack.

t3h n00b · Apr 19, 2009

Since nothing's been said for a couple of days, I'm going to start the discussion on Falcon's jab. If anyone tests when dsmash hits twice, feel free to post your findings. Anyway, jab has great speed and can interrupt movestrings, coming out on frame 3, the first two jabs combo into each other, and grab as well if spaced properly. One of Falcon's best moves for sure. Please discuss

Wogrim · Apr 20, 2009

Mit said:
PUNISH AERIAL APPROACHES

A friend of mine mains Yoshi. He often approaches with the half-jump RAR'd bair to go into Yoshi combos, but he's become very wary of doing it now. Why? I started charging d-smashes whenever he came near me. If he continued to try and bair me, I would either kick him in the face with dsmash, or match hits with him (the bair of course would barely hurt me, the dmash would do quite the opposite to him).

It takes a mindset to be able to spot aerial approaches you can punish (you can't just start charging it as soon as they jump, you've gotta whip it out at the last second and surprise them), but it's great, an essential strategy I'd say. If done right (on the proper kinds of aerial approaches), it will either land you a dsmash, or stop your opponents aerial approach (their only choice is to turn around in the air and back off, or airdodge into you, which, the backswing of dsmash would still hit them.)

So yeah, use it to punish aerial approaches (that you can actually match hits with/out-prioritize), and learn how fast it is and use it to punish other things as much as possible.

Oh and, obvious roll punishing.

EDIT: Also, first hit-nair -> dsmash. Sometimes it can be a combo, a lot of the time it isn't, but if you still try it anyways, chances are you'll catch your opponent off-guard and hit him with it anyways.

DSmash is probably the worst of the 3 against air moves. FSmash has leanback, which avoids moves pretty well, and USmash is disjointed so it can really destroy non-disjointed aerials. I use it mostly if someone's trying to get back on stage, since they'll often airdodge right into it.

I think most of you guys need to practice Smashes more so you can find more opportunities to land them. For example, walking/running away from attacks and then Smashing your opponent (dash back and hyphen smash if you ran away, generally FSmash if you walked) is surprisingly effective.

DSmash basically hits 2x when an opponent is right in the middle of you, which doesn't really happen much unless they're trying to roll behind you.

Jab->DSmash is too good

kamimari36 · Apr 20, 2009

Well, jab>jab can combo into a grab, as well as jab>grab.
But you can rack up 9% if you keep hitting A, or 14%-21% if your opponent can't DI for S#!T.
And everyone already agrees it's Falcon's best move.

I jab>jab>jab>FK, jab>jab>jab>FK, jab>jab>jab>FK, my opponent from one edge of FD to the other. It was a 0-death string. (My opponent was Falco, he couldn't recover.)
Is this a true combo? Or did my opponent not DI properly?

Wogrim · Apr 20, 2009

kamimari36 said:
Well, jab>jab can combo into a grab, as well as jab>grab.
But you can rack up 9% if you keep hitting A, or 14%-21% if your opponent can't DI for S#!T.
And everyone already agrees it's Falcon's best move.

I jab>jab>jab>FK, jab>jab>jab>FK, jab>jab>jab>FK, my opponent from one edge of FD to the other. It was a 0-death string. (My opponent was Falco, he couldn't recover.)
Is this a true combo? Or did my opponent not DI properly?

Falcon Kick?

kamimari36 · Apr 20, 2009

Wogrim said:
Falcon Kick?

Ya, it was really weird. I don't know how I did that. The more I think about it, it probably was just bad DI by my opponent.

Winnar · Apr 20, 2009

Jab is basically the best thing in the world. I'm not really sure what's to discuss.

I'll have to try that jab -> d-smash thing. Once a long time ago when I was young and foolish I tried a jab -> Falcon Punch. And got it. But I would never try it again

Probably <_< Maybe a jab -> reverse falcon punch :O

Yeah I think I'm going to try that sometime.

I like when people don't DI out of the jabs, I just sit there and jab cancel until they start DI'ing and then I go for the knee or f-smash or f-tilt >:D This is made even better by their automatically terrible DI because they NEVER SEE IT COMING XD

LuLLo · Apr 20, 2009

t3h n00b said:
Since nothing's been said for a couple of days, I'm going to start the discussion on Falcon's jab. If anyone tests when dsmash hits twice, feel free to post your findings. Anyway, jab has great speed and can interrupt movestrings, coming out on frame 3, the first two jabs combo into each other, and grab as well if spaced properly. One of Falcon's best moves for sure. Please discuss

I tried to test D-smash's hitbox to connect with both hits fairly thorough, but nothing came up, even in slomo in training I couldn't find the hitboxes. Tried letting opponents recover from the edge without a ledge-attack, made them jump so that they landed inside Falcon, walked them up to the edge to be inside them, nothing worked

...

On the Jab, amazing move, it is widely known and feared and people will avoid it at all costs, since one jab basically means a minimal of 20% on their a$$es. People all know the common uses of the Jab, like jab jab-grab, jab jab-crouch cancel-jab jab, but a rarely used option is to just hold A while your opponent is on the edge. I've done this many times and succeeded on pressuring them while recovering. people can do these things:

- Roll and then get punished by the jab OR if the jab don't hits, anything else except the Knee and Falcon Punch (Knee could work, but it's too slow and there are better options)(I also don't exactly know if they could roll past you, I think if you're at the right spot, they will get hit)
- Attack and get punished, this is what happened most of the time, but people tend to forget Falcon's jab-priority and it goes through the attack (or clashes, in which case you can continue jabbing)(also don't know every ledge-attack in the game, there could be one wich outprioritises the Jab).
- Jump and they will get hit by it, you can follow it up with a grab if you're quick.
- Ledgehop and attack (or not, if they're stupid) and most of the time get punished, unless they have a disjointed hitbox.

I encourage everyone to do this, since it puts you in a good situation 70-80% of the time, you can even use the multi-jab, on big characters this works wonders. Also, your opponent has three options: jump over after they DI'd out, get back to the ledge or try to counter:
- Jumping over (and most of the time using their up-B's) puts them in a bad/neutral position: up in the air while Falcon is on the ground.
- Get back to the edge resets the situation.
- Counter, this can give you the most trouble, since many characters have moves that beat Falcon's jab (MK's Tornado, Marth's Dolphin Slash etc), not to mention multi-jab. But if you read them right, you can time so that your jab ends when they ledgehop an attack. This way you can shield/dodge/run away and retaliate.

I know this is not 100% reliable, but I found it's very usefull if you space it right (make sure the distance between you and the ledge is the length of Falcon's arm). It's also pretty character specific, since some characters just beat out the jab with some attacks, as previous mentioned. Any thoughts on this?

t3h n00b · Apr 20, 2009

Thanks for trying to figure out the dsmash hitbox. And yeah, I use multijab against heavies and occasionally to edgeguard. Edge rolls behind the jab will usually get you punished, but that's usually the opponent's only good option.

eRonin · Apr 20, 2009

LuLLo said:
I tried to test D-smash's hitbox to connect with both hits fairly thorough, but nothing came up, even in slomo in training I couldn't find the hitboxes. Tried letting opponents recover from the edge without a ledge-attack, made them jump so that they landed inside Falcon, walked them up to the edge to be inside them, nothing worked ...

I'm pretty darn sure that they almost have to be lying flat. Did you try on downed opponents? The reason for this is that when one of two characters in the same spot is lying down, neither will slide one way or the other... you know how when two characters are just next to each other one will slide out of the way? That'll slide them out of the two-hit hitbox. I know this from hitting downed sandbag in HRC =)

As for jab... I don't use it nearly enough.
It's kinda good to know that the second jab has more range so if someone is trying to space out of your jab range, just go for the second jab and it'll hit...though from there I think there isn't much follow-up opportunity.

Zeallyx · Apr 20, 2009

jab is one of falcons best moves.
Its the center of falcons metgame, so to speak.

Player-3 · Apr 20, 2009

i only use jab when i need to get a grab in.

never use it other wise unless im being silly and holding down the A button

Zeallyx · Apr 20, 2009

Player-3 said:
i only use jab when i need to get a grab in.

never use it other wise unless im being silly and holding down the A button

You can also use it in stead of a spot dodge in alot of situations.

Not starting an arguement, just trying to help. Please stay on topic, I am, too.

FAILchion- · Apr 20, 2009

Probably Capt. Falcon's most prioritized move he has. Flows excellently into grabs and sometimes even smashes, and a sliding jab is amazing too. I'd say more, but it's most likely been covered. 9/10.

_Tiamat_ · Apr 20, 2009

Falcon's BEST move no questions asked. Everyone here probably know what the mighty Falcon Jab can do but anyway...

Jab rack up damage, jab combos into various things most notably grabs (don't forget the pummels) each jab you land can easily net around 15% damage of follow up if not more. Jabs and grabs also help keeping kill moves fresh. Jab is Falcon's #1 'combo' starter in Brawl and should be abused. This move might not be very manly but it's ****.

People with low crouch stances like Kirby can avoid Falcon's jab by crouching, this make Falcon very sad...

Spoonbob · Apr 21, 2009

It's weird, but I looove jab>jab>Falcon Dive. It totally removes any possibility of a follow-up, but it almost always works for me (it may be a combo, dunno), and is generally sexy.

LuLLo · Apr 21, 2009

eRonin said:
I'm pretty darn sure that they almost have to be lying flat. Did you try on downed opponents? The reason for this is that when one of two characters in the same spot is lying down, neither will slide one way or the other... you know how when two characters are just next to each other one will slide out of the way? That'll slide them out of the two-hit hitbox. I know this from hitting downed sandbag in HRC =)

Allright, I'll try it out in a sec

t3h n00b · Apr 21, 2009

Spoonbob said:
It's weird, but I looove jab>jab>Falcon Dive. It totally removes any possibility of a follow-up, but it almost always works for me (it may be a combo, dunno), and is generally sexy.

It's not a true combo, but usually works, especially if your opponent shields it. I think the only way an opponent can stop it is by hitting you as Falcon Dive latches on, but that doesn't happen often.

eRonin · Apr 21, 2009

Spoonbob said:
It's weird, but I looove jab>jab>Falcon Dive. It totally removes any possibility of a follow-up, but it almost always works for me (it may be a combo, dunno), and is generally sexy.

I guess it could work near the edge of the stage...at 250%... =D

LuLLo · Apr 21, 2009

It's pretty good, should use this from time to time, but I'm still figuring out the risk-reward, because IF they manage to dodge/counter it, you're in for some heavy punishment. Nevertheless, good to throw in some time.

t3h n00b · Apr 21, 2009

First hit nair>Falcon Dive works, meaning jab>Falcon Dive is pretty close to a true combo, and I think at the right range, the only way to avoid it is with a jab or a fast tilt.

Spoonbob · Apr 23, 2009

eRonin said:
I guess it could work near the edge of the stage...at 250%... =D

...wut? I'm not looking for it to kill. o___o

DO YOU KNOW WHAT FALCON DIVE IS MAYBE NO I'M NOT SURE NOW

jk

t3h n00b · Apr 23, 2009

Ok, the next move is Raptor Boost. It has many uses, what do you guys use it most for? I personally use it sometimes to get characters that are weak from below them in the air (Marth, Snake, Olimar) to uair spam.

Zeallyx · Apr 23, 2009

I rarely use RB (or any b move).
When I use it, I use it to punish rolls when they have a clear roll pattern, or to punish approaches/landings (landing lag).

_Tiamat_ · Apr 23, 2009

Raptor Boost get people in the air, this is often pretty good for Douglas since he have a nice air game. Sadly it send them too high to 'combo' into stuff, even at low %

The move is quite weak on it's own and have severe lag if you miss so it should be saved for when you're sure to hit, or at least sure you won't be punished if you miss. I find it best for quick punishing.

The aerial version have huge ending lag even if you hit, Falcon will bounce over the enemy and land with a big delay before being able to move again, that lead into getting punished even for hitting kinda like Falcon Kick, making it pretty risky.

That move is also good for quick edgehogging and surprise spikes when recovering (or as an EPIC combo finisher if you really want to show off your manliness) but the spike is really weak so characters with good vertical recoveries can survive.

All in all it's not a very good move, the punishment for missing is really bad and the reward for hitting it isn't really that good.

4/10... weak, situational, risky, doesn't directly lead into anything else. Only good to get people with weak air games off of the ground.

F5Hazardousdoc · Apr 23, 2009

I dunno, raptor boost is an iffy move to me. Sometimes, I'll use it just to mix it up and keep my opponent guessing. Its a great move to use as the opponent is landing with an airdodge, since raptor boost keeps its hurtbox out for a few frames longer than normal.

OH YEAH! Don't use this move against people who either have a good grab game, or have long grab range. You can get grabbed out of raptor boost EASILY.

_Tiamat_ · Apr 24, 2009

Sorry if I'm late on this but since many people have been trying to figure out the 2-hit-down-smash thing I think it's worth saying.

I only got it to work at low % so I think it might only hit around 10% or lower. I did the tests in trainer and the hitbox for the 2 kicks to connect seem to be in the middle of Falcon's body, from his chest and downward. They need to be really close to the middle of his body and the only way I could land it consistantly is with a CPU jumping in training mode by standing directly bellow him and down smashing as he fall down on Douglas' manly pecs or lower. But with this I can land it nearly every time so this really seem to be how it work.

So to sums it up either have them land on you or somehow hit them while they are running RIGHT past you (like, through you)

Oh and I tested it on big, medium and small characters and it worked consistantly, so it have nothing to do with their size or weight, maybe it's just easier to get a fat guy in the hitbox.

Doesn't seem really reliable in actual fighting due to how hard it is to hit with that hitbox and the fact that it doesn't work past a low %, but it's nice to know.

(sorry if this is already known, just trying to help)

t3h n00b · Apr 24, 2009

Thanks, I don't think it was known, or at least I didn't know lol. With the thing about someone running through it though, I think that's just weird SDI into Falcon, rather than getting hit away (maybe?), like how you can SDI out of Diddy's fsmash, or DI the second hit behind Diddy. Good stuff though, that is the kind of thing I was hoping would come out of this thread.

_Tiamat_ · Apr 24, 2009

The hitbox inside Falcon's body really send them backward while the regular hitbox send them away from Douglas so I don't think smash DI will help or not when landing 2hit down smash, it seem to just be about where they are when the first hit connect, if anything certain regular DI might send them upward, preventing the second hit from connecting.

t3h n00b · Apr 24, 2009

Oh ok that makes sense, I guess since Falcon's downsmash has significant knockback on both ends and isn't meant to hit both times, it would be different. But I thought something different five minutes ago, so I can easily be wrong lol. So the closer to the middle of Falcon, the more likely both hits will connect?

_Tiamat_ · Apr 24, 2009

Yeah that pretty much sums it up, idealy they'll be around his abs I think, otherwise they MIGHT fly too high for the back kick, but the most important is definitly to have them INSIDE Falcon. You can go test it like I described and you'll quickly get a good feel of it, then maybe you can add stuff lol

talkingbeatles · Apr 24, 2009

I use the raptor boost to approach...

Heh.

Just kidding. I rarely use this move, seeing as it pretty terrible damage wise, doesn't set up for anything other then uairs, has no priority, is a weak spike, and is very punishable.
Having said all of that, I do feel pretty good when I get one off, just because it's so hardcore.

<π · Apr 24, 2009

I use raptor boost all the freakin time! raptor boost if it activates has pretty little lag. from what I gather there are what I like to call "raptor zones" where the move will activate. normally it is just far enough to avoid a shield grab from most characters. from there you can jab or even re-raptor this is espeacially god when you are behind someone. you can keep presure on there shield and open them up to bair and nair shield pokes to open up the air game again.

Lol, seriously

ALSO you lean back a decent amount upon activation it can be used to avoid grabs jabs and aerials. you can also run away from your opponent and come back in which again is amazing against laggy aerial attacks... cuz you know people use those to approach.

raptor boost is my favorite falcon move.

talkingbeatles · Apr 24, 2009

<3 said:
I use raptor boost all the freakin time! raptor boost if it activates has pretty little lag. from what I gather there are what I like to call "raptor zones" where the move will activate. normally it is just far enough to avoid a shield grab from most characters. from there you can jab or even re-raptor this is espeacially god when you are behind someone. you can keep presure on there shield and open them up to bair and nair shield pokes to open up the air game again.

Lol, seriously

ALSO you lean back a decent amount upon activation it can be used to avoid grabs jabs and aerials. you can also run away from your opponent and come back in which again is amazing against laggy aerial attacks... cuz you know people use those to approach.

raptor boost is my favorite falcon move.

Well I feel like a huge fool.
I should try some of this stuff, eh?

Zeallyx · Apr 24, 2009

<3 said:
against laggy aerial attacks... cuz you know people use those to approach.

No they dont..

<π · Apr 24, 2009

oh wait... you're right!

Zeallyx · Apr 24, 2009

<3 said:
oh wait... you're right!

<3's post kinda reflects the fact rapotor boost is an overall crappy move.
Like I said, Its best to rarely use any b move when playing as falcon, apart from recovering with up b.

LuLLo · Apr 24, 2009

One thing about the D-smash, I've also tested it the same way Tiamat did, but I got a VERY weak hit from time to time, which dealt only 6% and sent they opponents sliding on the ground for about 1,5 Falcons away.

About Raptor Boost, not a move I use regularly, but against opponents who have no brain at all it works nice. Against good opponents, I use it from time to time as a surprise attack, mindgames like running past them and punish OoS with a Raptor works pretty good for me, or just running away and Raptor Boost, or just RB alone, since it's some sort of ''counter'' because of the slight retreat you do in the beginning animation. Other than that, no real uses for this move. I'd say 4/10 and 5-6/10 against big chars/chars with bad grabs or OoS options.

Ville · Apr 24, 2009

There's one thing raptor boost is REALLY good for: punishing rolls.
Everytime you see somebody roll, just raptorboost in their direction and they will get hit.
Otherwise the move is complete bull****, such as most of Falcons moves except Jab/Ulti/Uair/Bair/Grab

Falcon Moveset Discussion: summaries coming soon

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