D
Deleted member
Guest
Fair enough. I was just kind of shocked to see the tangent people went on after I posted my hasty "glitch".
Nomsain?
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Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)
- Thread starter shanus
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Nomsain?
Here's how Zelda's Fsmash works... this is from Melee but the hitboxes in Brawl are situated in much the same way.
Hitbox 1 is centered at her chest, hitbox 2 at her shoulders, hitbox 3 at the hand, and hitbox 4 at the outer sparkle effects. Hitbox 5 is the hitbox that actually sends, and it consists of all 4 of those bubbles put together, and has not been changed.
Hitbox 1 and 2 are now designed to send outwards and slightly semi spike (angles between 180 and 360/0 are semi spikes), and hitbox 3 and 4 are designed to pull inwards, also in a semi-spike fashion. They've all had their KB reduced below the threshold of normal DI. This is to help ensure the move hits into its final, sending hit. There are some random whiffs on the last hit that I don't quite understand though that could be addressed with slight size modification on it.
As for Fair sweetspot increase, I rallied that because it's a worse move than Bair in pretty much every conceivable way. Slower to come out, more afterlag, more landlag, slightly weaker KB, less ability to trade (the animation is more gradual than Bair), and Fair also takes up the entire duration of a SH while it's possible to SH Bair and DJ. It goes to show that Bair is exceedingly better OoS than Fair because of all this. The normal sweetspot size is so small that idle standing animations or tumbling animations are enough to make it miss. So now, if you have an open opportunity to land a kick against a foe who is unable to act, yet is moving erratically, you'll have a reason to consider Fair's more forgiving sweetspot. The hitbox is actually still fairly tiny.
Hitbox 1 is centered at her chest, hitbox 2 at her shoulders, hitbox 3 at the hand, and hitbox 4 at the outer sparkle effects. Hitbox 5 is the hitbox that actually sends, and it consists of all 4 of those bubbles put together, and has not been changed.
Hitbox 1 and 2 are now designed to send outwards and slightly semi spike (angles between 180 and 360/0 are semi spikes), and hitbox 3 and 4 are designed to pull inwards, also in a semi-spike fashion. They've all had their KB reduced below the threshold of normal DI. This is to help ensure the move hits into its final, sending hit. There are some random whiffs on the last hit that I don't quite understand though that could be addressed with slight size modification on it.
As for Fair sweetspot increase, I rallied that because it's a worse move than Bair in pretty much every conceivable way. Slower to come out, more afterlag, more landlag, slightly weaker KB, less ability to trade (the animation is more gradual than Bair), and Fair also takes up the entire duration of a SH while it's possible to SH Bair and DJ. It goes to show that Bair is exceedingly better OoS than Fair because of all this. The normal sweetspot size is so small that idle standing animations or tumbling animations are enough to make it miss. So now, if you have an open opportunity to land a kick against a foe who is unable to act, yet is moving erratically, you'll have a reason to consider Fair's more forgiving sweetspot. The hitbox is actually still fairly tiny.
Why yes, my fellow smash chap. I do believe I am correct in comprehending the meaning within the statement in your post that I have quoted here in my post on www.smashboards.com
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
I understand the idea of giving some use to Zelda' Fair...but couldn't you have just made Fair have a much larger box with a lot less KB compared to her Bair? So Zelda really would be the opposite of Falcon in a way with these two air moves (comparing power...in vBrawl Falcon's Knee has less KB than Zelda's Bair and is almost tied with her Fair...however Falcon's Bair is also a KO move that has the same KB power pretty much as Ness, and Ganondorf's Bair or so)
Well I guess they aren't completely alike of course (Zelda's kicks do come out faster overall)
ZodiakLucien
Smash Ace
I really like how brawl+ is progressing. I think you should make wolfs side B sweetspot like a Knee instead of a spike. This would make it a risk/reward move instead of being completely useless to hit with. Also after all the spacies up B, they should be able to have a lot more control. Right now they all fall like a rock.
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
I think the whole falling like a rock was the idea though if they had to use their up special (because they each have that side special)
Nybb
Smash Journeyman
Can anybody offer some input as to why Diddy's recovery is the way it is? I haven't played him much before in B+, but I was playing him a bit today and I am astounded by how bad it is. His momentum/jump are average at best; his up-B seems terrible. Aside from being slow and predictable, it also seems to be unable to sweetspot. It seems that every time you go for the ledge, you just explode and stage spike yourself, which means you have to go above the ledge. Going back to the "slow and predictable" thing, this basically means that Diddy will never live against a decent opponent once he is off the stage.
Some other characters have similarly bad up-B's, but they are all at least mostly guarded by hitboxes (i.e. Mario). Diddy does also have his side-B, but it only gives you a small horizontal distance, and leaves you defenseless (using the kick means you can't up-B). I understand that bad recoveries balance out good on-stage games, but the ratio of the poorness of his recovery to the goodness of his onstage game is a little bit skewed from what I've seen.
Am I missing something, or what? Discuss.
Some other characters have similarly bad up-B's, but they are all at least mostly guarded by hitboxes (i.e. Mario). Diddy does also have his side-B, but it only gives you a small horizontal distance, and leaves you defenseless (using the kick means you can't up-B). I understand that bad recoveries balance out good on-stage games, but the ratio of the poorness of his recovery to the goodness of his onstage game is a little bit skewed from what I've seen.
Am I missing something, or what? Discuss.
Dan_X
Smash Lord
A few questions and comments...
Ok guys, so I've been away from smash for the past week or two. It's nice to see that 4.1 has gone live, and I'm glad to see the new nightly build. I'll download it and try it tomorrow.
I do have a question regarding the plussery however, and couldn't figure out where else to ask. In the current build, can one access custom made maps? I recall for a while one of the versions of the texture hack required you to disable the custom stages. I ask this because I think it's foolish for us, the Brawl+ community not to endorse a custom tournament map pack. We all have SD cards, as such, a custom set is easily accessible by everyone! Check out this thread, here are some great maps I'd love to try in the tournament setting!!!
In addition, I understand there's a Brawl map builder for the computer, that someone in the community has built, is it a stable program? In addition, where can I download it?
Thanks guys! Keep up the good work WBR!!
Ok guys, so I've been away from smash for the past week or two. It's nice to see that 4.1 has gone live, and I'm glad to see the new nightly build. I'll download it and try it tomorrow.
I do have a question regarding the plussery however, and couldn't figure out where else to ask. In the current build, can one access custom made maps? I recall for a while one of the versions of the texture hack required you to disable the custom stages. I ask this because I think it's foolish for us, the Brawl+ community not to endorse a custom tournament map pack. We all have SD cards, as such, a custom set is easily accessible by everyone! Check out this thread, here are some great maps I'd love to try in the tournament setting!!!
In addition, I understand there's a Brawl map builder for the computer, that someone in the community has built, is it a stable program? In addition, where can I download it?
Thanks guys! Keep up the good work WBR!!
why was the kbg on luigis jab decreased? wouldnt that lead to easier jab->upb?
and didnt u want to remove his areal upb nerf, now that we know dthrow->upb kills at 120% (if u read the di) and nair at 129 iirc?
ps: hope the pal version is coming soon
and didnt u want to remove his areal upb nerf, now that we know dthrow->upb kills at 120% (if u read the di) and nair at 129 iirc?
ps: hope the pal version is coming soon
Well, Ness and Lucas are in the same boat with the NASL thing.
They can still get the ledge, though now you have to aim very carefully with their recoveries. Aiming for the ledge means you have to space your recovery to end just as you reach the stage or bounce to your doom.
The timing is just tighter now. It's still a fairly decent recovery move in terms of distance.
Magus420
Smash Master
It's decreased to reduce the stun. It's the exact minimum reduction needed for DDD to be stunned for 13 frames and allows him to block it, who is the easiest character to combo it on being the lightest character who also has 6 frames of hard landing lag. The change is split between the 1 frame added to the startup of up-b itself and 1 frame of stun removed from the jab to not mess up his other jab followups while having minimal change on the speed of the up-b.
Dunno about the aerial up-b nerf. Probably just forgot to remove or change it I guess.
Clever_Sleazoid
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 188
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
Yeah, I forgot to do it after spending liek 3498298429842 tries getting the jab upB right. I have it worked down for the next
thesage
Smash Hero
It actually is impossible to sweetspot the edge for Ness on certain stages (yoshi's comes to mind) or you can only sweetspot the ledge while PKT2 is in the sweetspot or sourspot, depending on where you hit the ledge. The timing is different at all, you just have to aim different.
Indeed there are. Which is why I put my name and home address on the post.
Come get me Nintendo.
Wing
Technically, it isn't impossible. Just impractical. You either have to aim downwards to exempt yourself from NASL or you have to space yourself perfectly making you a prime target for edgehogging.
Yeah, that's kind of what I meant. Poor choice of words, my bad. >.>
He doesnt take **** from people Neko.
Also, off topic. But every where i go on youtube i see a comment from you. Even when i go to random videos like "smash 64 Link". I feel bad for accidentally stalking you.
CountKaiser
Smash Lord
GHNeko, what does this mean?
:v
:v
grim mouser
Smash Journeyman
Could I request text files be added to the Nightly Builds site? I would like to be able to update and still use some of my fun codes.
Arkaether
Smash Ace
It's a duck. Quack quack. :v
timothyung
Smash Ace
http://shanemulliganphotography.blogsite.org:6111/~shane/SmashCodes/
Nightly Builds Site -> Latest Nightly Build -> Old public nightly builds at the bottom
Go into the folders and you will find it.
Nightly Builds Site -> Latest Nightly Build -> Old public nightly builds at the bottom
Go into the folders and you will find it.
grim mouser
Smash Journeyman
Thanks. I always thought those files only went up to the next-to-latest build. @_@
Blank Mauser
Smash Champion
Only Pikachu can quack.
grim mouser
Smash Journeyman
I'm getting freezes soon after matches start (usually at the first attack). Has anyone else had freezes with 4.2?
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Over in the top ten list thread, people have been doing their worst 5 lists as well, so I thought I'd bring that discussion over here.
So far the general consensus is...... that you guys have done a great job! Most people can't even find 5 characters that they think are the worst! I mean, I'm going to have to lower it to only 3 characters that need help in the eye of the community! Those 3 characters are:
1. Bowser
2. Ness
3. Yoshi
I know Bowser has recently been buffed, but I still feel he needs something done, most likely more ALR or a blanket damage increase.
Ness in my opinion still needs more to really be a good character. Make his upsmash a good defensive move like it used to be, and improve his psimagnet in some way (preferably making it have a higher wind effect so that it is still different than Lucas's) and reduce the startup time for it.
The main problem with Yoshi is almost no one actually plays as him, so he may be better than people think. Still, I think he needs some buffs, although I don't play Yoshi enough to know what he would need.
What buffs do you guys think these characters need?
So far the general consensus is...... that you guys have done a great job! Most people can't even find 5 characters that they think are the worst! I mean, I'm going to have to lower it to only 3 characters that need help in the eye of the community! Those 3 characters are:
1. Bowser
2. Ness
3. Yoshi
I know Bowser has recently been buffed, but I still feel he needs something done, most likely more ALR or a blanket damage increase.
Ness in my opinion still needs more to really be a good character. Make his upsmash a good defensive move like it used to be, and improve his psimagnet in some way (preferably making it have a higher wind effect so that it is still different than Lucas's) and reduce the startup time for it.
The main problem with Yoshi is almost no one actually plays as him, so he may be better than people think. Still, I think he needs some buffs, although I don't play Yoshi enough to know what he would need.
What buffs do you guys think these characters need?
stingers
Smash Obsessed
lol one of the best players in nc uses yoshi
he's really good.
he's really good.
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
used it for about 2 hours yesterday and not one crash. I imagine when you used the text some formatting got messed up.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Ok, but consider this, It may be the player not the character. Gimpyfish was amazing at Bowser in Melee, but Bowser still sucked.
Also some vids would be cool I haven't seen a really good Yoshi in B+ yet
stingers
Smash Obsessed
No, Yoshi is seriously a good character. Lol.
He has combos out the ***, a safe approach, a good projectile...he's a good character. One bair and you eat 50%.
He has combos out the ***, a safe approach, a good projectile...he's a good character. One bair and you eat 50%.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Ok, maybe your right, I honestly know very little about Yoshi, he did seem to make it on everyone's bottom 5 list though (but, as I said in my previous post, the idea of him being bad may just be due to lack of experience playing Yoshi)
Anyways, what is your opinion on Bowser and Ness stingers?
EDIT: The nipple spike is too sexy, I love it.
Ness could use minor tweaks, but I'm not convinced he's bottom five material. He just doesn't seem that bad to me.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Yes, but who besides Bowser would you say is WORSE than Ness?
stingers
Smash Obsessed
ganon...ike...ddd...charizard
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Charizard is a great and very underrated character, I originally was going to put DDD on my list but I've been told numerous times that he is actually good. Ganondorf isn't great but he definitely isn't in the bottom 5. Ike......maybe, but I've heard once or twice that he isn't bad.
Melomaniacal
Smash Champion
I think Ike isn't too bad. Probably around the middle. I've seen some crazy **** pulled off by Ike.
Same with Charizard.
Same with Charizard.
Arkaether
Smash Ace
Ganon is most definitely not bottom-tier. Not anywhere near top, but not anywhere near bottom.
Ike has, uh, retreating fair, and the occasional crazy combo. I wouldn't rank him very high at all, though.
DDD has dair, dair, dair, utilt, and dair.
Charizard is **** good. Fair fences, rock smash, heavyweight, the works.
Ike has, uh, retreating fair, and the occasional crazy combo. I wouldn't rank him very high at all, though.
DDD has dair, dair, dair, utilt, and dair.
Charizard is **** good. Fair fences, rock smash, heavyweight, the works.
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