cubaisdeath
Smash Lord
just do what you have to in melee. full hop over that **** lol
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Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)
- Thread starter shanus
- Start date
- Status
Cytrs
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 23, 2009
- Messages
- 97
Pros
he has a great spike, can out camp most opponents, a reflector that starts combos, crazy utilt, can shutdown approaches (even in the air... i hate that laser), rack up damage real quick-like, approach, great aerial game/ ways to start it off, good combos if you know how, fast attack speed.
Meh
Pretty good weight, not fastest run speed, okay to slightly bad recovery (crazy 2nd hops+ >b that goes far and basically teleports while spiking= pretty good, but if his second jump leaves him below the ledge hes screwed). kind of hard to kill with (still 2 spikes/ good at racking damage/ aerials with good kill potential)
Cons
below average for being comboed, bad ^b.
edit: He could deal with his laser having more cooldown or startup (dont care which, i just want 4 unparalyzed frames). a good falco will shoot you out of the air.
he has a great spike, can out camp most opponents, a reflector that starts combos, crazy utilt, can shutdown approaches (even in the air... i hate that laser), rack up damage real quick-like, approach, great aerial game/ ways to start it off, good combos if you know how, fast attack speed.
Meh
Pretty good weight, not fastest run speed, okay to slightly bad recovery (crazy 2nd hops+ >b that goes far and basically teleports while spiking= pretty good, but if his second jump leaves him below the ledge hes screwed). kind of hard to kill with (still 2 spikes/ good at racking damage/ aerials with good kill potential)
Cons
below average for being comboed, bad ^b.
edit: He could deal with his laser having more cooldown or startup (dont care which, i just want 4 unparalyzed frames). a good falco will shoot you out of the air.
Clever_Sleazoid
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 188
Anyone else think tech chasing should be a tiny bit more prominent?
Oh, and Falco's spike sucks at spiking. It does come out fast though.
Oh, and Falco's spike sucks at spiking. It does come out fast though.
You forgot the part about his lack of kill potential compared to the cast, his predictable recovery, bad ledge game, extreme weakness to planking, and his DIable combos.
SHDL is a beast approach, but its not without its holes, as the lasers follow a pattern. Figure out the pattern and the approach becomes meh.
Also, both his recoveries can be outproiritized.
EDIT: Yea. Falco's spike is meh. There are better ones. and It's MCable
Dair spike is meh, phantasm spike is LOL.
Clever_Sleazoid
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 188
His dair spike IS meh. It won't kill until past 80% if you just simply MC.
Also, anyone wanna give me their thoughts on current tech chasing in +?
Also, anyone wanna give me their thoughts on current tech chasing in +?
D
Deleted member
Guest
btw whoever calls me a scrub or nub for failing to realize tap jump was screwing yoshi's recovery...you're dumb and i hate you.
i don't play yoshi. i've been playing random so i can try every character out so i can come to this thread and give feedback.
ps, my tech skill (especially in melee) is probably better than yours.
i don't play yoshi. i've been playing random so i can try every character out so i can come to this thread and give feedback.
ps, my tech skill (especially in melee) is probably better than yours.
Clever_Sleazoid
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 188
Doesn't matter when you can MC it every time, it's a crap spike, it just comes out fast making it average overall.
That's dumb, what is the point of even having SHDL if that happens?
Revven
FrankerZ
Tech chasing is ridiculously easy and is pretty prominent with any character that has a decent to good dash attack. Almost every move in the game requires you to tech, with which any character may have a follow-up to that. Snake is an example of a character who has some easypass options for techchasing right off the bat. Dthrow, Dash attack, Mortar Slide are a couple that come to mind. While someone like Charizard, who was built for techchasing, has to work harder for it and thus, feels more rewarding.
Techchasing is plenty prominent. There's lots of chars who have a lot of options to techchase while others just weren't built for it.
...errr...That post isnt helping either you know. :V
We dont know you dont play yoshi as we know nothing about you. :V
And? The dair spike ahs a sour spot that helps your opponent more than hurts, it only has no danger of suiciding if you do it over the stage or do a raising dair. The lag is long enough that if you do a falling dair, you will prob kill yourself.
cubaisdeath
Smash Lord
my thoughts exactly
_clinton
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,189
I said at least work the same way Falcon Dive works (which means he would have to hit someone in order for it to not go into freefall)
But still...even if it didn't work that way...I'm thinking making it work like Diddy's Side special (you can only use it once in the air or so) wouldn't be broken as well
cubaisdeath
Smash Lord
using it off stage is already risky enough, but you get rewarded if you land the hit anyways. I dunno, even if it didn't have the helpless animation afterwards he would still have enough lag on it for it not to matter that much anyways
Christopher Rodriguez
The illest Project M Bowser
I don't see how people could complain about falcon's recovery. its fine, atleast the thing grabs on to people and does damage if the person's timing isn't that great. I could understand if it didn't grab people
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Offstage RB is suicide in Brawl+ (unless you are hopping towards the edge). Hit or miss, you fly and die. And your opponent can MC, so a hit isn't a guaranteed suicide KO.
Arkaether
Smash Ace
The thing is, it's not that good of a move and it gives you a HUUUUUUUUUGE momentum boost if you DO hit with it, making it a **** good recovery move. Which is, well, all that it really should be as far as the aerial version is concerned.
QFT.
Falcon's recovery has already gotten a major boost, and he really needs nothing else. The momentum fix on his Up B already allows him to recover perfectly fine after leaping to the blastline (with his conserved momentum while jumping from his run) on a large stage like FD and gimp the opponent. Can you ask for anything more? Add the momentum boost he gets on the hop when hitting an opponent with Raptor Boost and his recovery is MUCH better.
cman
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 593
The momentum boost, as far as recovery is concerned, is worthless. You guys seem to be under the assumption that since it is possible, then it should be factored into an analysis of his recovery. The move is not a guaranteed hit, and the move is free fall in either case, so you must always be within the minimal range before you can safely use the move. Since you have to be within range to use it without risking suicide, the potential advantage of the hop for recovery purposes can be safely ignored.
A good move to liken his raptor boost is ZSS's downB. It gives a short boost unless you come into contact with the person, when you can do the little jump thing and then get really big distance boost. The only difference is that with ZSS (assuming a free fall change), you can either get the boost or spike when contacting the other person, rather than both, which would happen if the free fall state state were removed from falcons. Does getting a MS and distance both warrent completely invalidating raptor boost's usefulness as a recovery move (except in the current limited instances where you are close to, and horizontal from, the ledge)? That depends on whether or not you think falcon needs a buff, but only free falling when it hits the other person would be a good change if you think he does.
Raptor boost has even more problems when used aerially over the stage, and the hop is actually detrimental to the usefulness of the move. The large hop on connection prevents any follow up ever, since you will be too far to return before they recover. It also limits how close to you edge you can use the move because of the free fall state it causes. The move cannot be immediately aerialed because it doesn't even hit (!?!), but instead lands during the contact animation before it actually does anything. Overall, the move is essentially useless aerially and I think it needs a large rework if you want it to be useful.
Arkaether
Smash Ace
My point isn't that the momentum boost should be counted on, but rather that should you get it, there is no worry of free falling and dying.
The problem HERE is that everybody seems to have the idea that aerial raptor boost needs to be useful. Why? Overall, there seems to be this mistaken perception that ALL moves must have a consistent useful application no matter what. Raptor Boost is already more than useful as an onstage move. Considering that Falcon is already a solid character (with perhaps a few priority/disjointed buffs necessary), there really is no reason to give him such a buff. Yeah, it's useless, IN THE AIR. The move itself is NOT useless. There is no reason we HAVE to make it useful in the air.
Seriously, if you're going to insist that ALL moves be useful, look at other moves (Jigglypuff's Sing) first before aerial Raptor Boost. At least Raptor Boost is going to be used in quite a few situations. Sing? I use it as a taunt and when I'm sandbagging.
The problem HERE is that everybody seems to have the idea that aerial raptor boost needs to be useful. Why? Overall, there seems to be this mistaken perception that ALL moves must have a consistent useful application no matter what. Raptor Boost is already more than useful as an onstage move. Considering that Falcon is already a solid character (with perhaps a few priority/disjointed buffs necessary), there really is no reason to give him such a buff. Yeah, it's useless, IN THE AIR. The move itself is NOT useless. There is no reason we HAVE to make it useful in the air.
Seriously, if you're going to insist that ALL moves be useful, look at other moves (Jigglypuff's Sing) first before aerial Raptor Boost. At least Raptor Boost is going to be used in quite a few situations. Sing? I use it as a taunt and when I'm sandbagging.
In all honesty though, why does it need to be made into a useful move?
Yes, Falcon could be better, but does he really NEED to be better? If the idea of Brawl+ is to make every character viable, it is obvious that Falcon doesn't need any changes to him because he already fits into that category.
Aerial Raptor boost was never a good idea because it was so easy to meteor cancel, at least now it can be used as a form of recovery.
Maybe the hop prevents any potential of getting to the ground first and following up but it does serve a purpose as well. Without the momentum boost, you could just meat shield it, or airdodge through the move to force Falcon into the connect animation and fall to his death. Again, at least now you should be able to make it back if they decide to meat shield the move like you were able to with Ness's Up B or Ike's Side B in the same situation.
My 8 year old understanding of "rest" says hi.
Funny how stupid you are when your young
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
Just f-air
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
Its actually still tremendously small. The old hitbox is actually only the edge of her toes, now its a bit bigger. Also remember the sweetspot is only out for 1 frame as well. The bair outclasses the fair in all ways, but I'll let Ryoko come in here and speak for me.
Liking some of these changes. I want to test the kirby fsmash change first before saying anything about it but I'm glad to see its gettin the nerf that it (sadly) deserved.
MK26
Smash Master
LMFAOOOO you actually put in the nipple spike! Does it actually spike, or is it just a meteor?
And wtf@330 degree launch angle for Zelda fsmash
is it normally like that?
And im with cam, it's sad to see, but i suppose the fsmash nerf just had to be... rip brokensmash
btw, how much later will it kill at now?
And wtf@330 degree launch angle for Zelda fsmash
is it normally like that?
And im with cam, it's sad to see, but i suppose the fsmash nerf just had to be... rip brokensmash
btw, how much later will it kill at now?
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
from around 124% with DI in middle of FD with mario to about 135%
I actually made an entire guide on how to install Brawl+ on your Wii.
Everything from what an SD card is, to how to use it, to in-depth instructions on installing Homebrew, Brawl+, etc.
It's lengthy, but it's thorough.
I noticed that on the actual Nightly Builds site, you said nobody had written a guide yet on how to install Homebrew. If you want to use it, feel free.
Here is the link to the post: http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=90157
Please give me credit if you do. And feel free to change it however you like.
Wing
Everything from what an SD card is, to how to use it, to in-depth instructions on installing Homebrew, Brawl+, etc.
It's lengthy, but it's thorough.
I noticed that on the actual Nightly Builds site, you said nobody had written a guide yet on how to install Homebrew. If you want to use it, feel free.
Here is the link to the post: http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=90157
Please give me credit if you do. And feel free to change it however you like.
Wing
MK26
Smash Master
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
...
and what about the other questions?
EDIT: @shanus: thats not too bad
@wing: arent those illegal?
Lol, i was looking for it too. I was slightly confused at first. But its on there, just scroll down.
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