Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

Falconv1.0 · Jul 4, 2009

CaliburChamp said:
Then you see matches of Chu's Kirby vs Inui's MK, in which Chu's Kirby wins

Stop talking.

That was a horrible video, Inui performed terribly in that one video, and using videos as deciding factors is stupid. Dude you have any idea how much **** I took for saying Snake isn't as bad as people think and gave an example with Chu vs Ally? I wasn't even using that as an argument and people thought I was ****ing ********, but when you base your **** entirely off player vs player matches, it's ludicrous.

MK is harder to beat than ROB, MK vs Kirby is not 65/35.

>______________________>

CaliburChamp · Jul 4, 2009

Falconv1.0 said:
Stop talking.

That was a horrible video, Inui performed terribly in that one video, and using videos as deciding factors is stupid. Dude you have any idea how much **** I took for saying Snake isn't as bad as people think and gave an example with Chu vs Ally? I wasn't even using that as an argument and people thought I was ****ing ********, but when you base your **** entirely off player vs player matches, it's ludicrous.

MK is harder to beat than ROB, MK vs Kirby is not 65/35.

>______________________>

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I look at video examples, plus my real live tournament experience, so it's not like I'm making an uneducated guess. And Chu never beat Ally in a tournament match, and if it's a tournament match, I count that as real experience, it's not like I count friendly matches. So obviously I have good reasons for my argument, while you don't.

Falconv1.0 · Jul 4, 2009

CaliburChamp said:
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I look at video examples, plus my real live tournament experience, so it's not like I'm making an uneducated guess. And Chu never beat Ally in a tournament match, and if it's a tournament match, I count that as real experience, it's not like I count friendly matches. So obviously I have good reasons for my argument, while you don't.

No, you listed Inui vs Chu, which bumps down your credibility by over 9,000. Chu went even with a guy playing well with Snake, that's 30 times better of an example than some bull **** were Inui was playing an MK worse than MINE.

I have a question, how does a character with less advantages vs Kirby than MK have a harder match up. Yeah, don't do math while high please.

A2ZOMG · Jul 4, 2009

What madness is this? ROB has the advantage on Kirby? I really don't know what you guys are on. I've played this matchup a bit with a friend and I lose it most of the time.

Right, so ROB has obvious advantages. Range and camping, which are OMG THE TWO THINGS KIRBY HATES! It's not as simple as that.

Firstoff, ROB happens to have a really hard time camping Kirby. His projectiles....aren't spammable. And because they aren't spammable, Kirby has plenty of time to float around or walk or do whatever **** he needs to do to approach.

Next...ROB's range advantage isn't that huge. Kirby also has good range on his attacks like Smashes (which I think has about the same range as ROB's F-tilt), B-air, and F-tilt. Kirby happens to do more damage than ROB, and you can quite viably trade hits with him since his hand isn't disjointed. Trading hits is over half the time a no-no for ROB here.

Kirby happens to be a pro at edgeguarding ROB. D-air at least will probably trade hits with his U-air, so do it over and over again until he runs out of fuel. ROB edgeguarding Kirby...is much harder. ROB isn't as maneuverable, so chances are you might even be able to punish his whiff by edgeguarding him back.

And then landing kill moves. Man...this is a total pain in the butt for ROB. The only real way ROB can land a kill move is by predicting an air dodge/Up-B with N-air or whatever. And that might even be stale if he's forced to use it to muscle his way back stage. Kirby can duck under his F-smash and punish (assuming he doesn't angle it down). And if you can bait his down-smash and have good reaction, make him eat a F-smash and regret it.

Oh, and if you want to rub salt in his wounds, swallow him and catch his Gyro.

thrillagorilla · Jul 4, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
What madness is this? ROB has the advantage on Kirby? I really don't know what you guys are on. I've played this matchup a bit with a friend and I lose it most of the time.

Right, so ROB has obvious advantages. Range and camping, which are OMG THE TWO THINGS KIRBY HATES! It's not as simple as that.

Don't try to camp Kirby...

Firstoff, ROB happens to have a really hard time camping Kirby. His projectiles....aren't spammable. And because they aren't spammable, Kirby has plenty of time to float around or walk or do whatever **** he needs to do to approach.

This is why. Your projectiles are much more useful in this MU if you don't try to camp with them.

Next...ROB's range advantage isn't that huge. Kirby also has good range on his attacks like Smashes (which I think has about the same range as ROB's F-tilt), B-air, and F-tilt. Kirby happens to do more damage than ROB, and you can quite viably trade hits with him since his hand isn't disjointed. Trading hits is over half the time a no-no for ROB here.

The fact that we need to use our f-smash to compete with the range on your much faster tilts should say something. d-tilt alone should be giving Kirby problems. ROB can limit an air approach with f-tilt and projectiles, so a grounded approach is our best bet. Then we have to compete with your longer-range d-tilt.

Its not impossible for Kirby to get in, but once he does he still has to work hard to keep up with ROB's options. Its doable, but hard. Also, what Kirby do you play against that uses f-smashes to compete with your range and why aren't you punishing her/him?

Kirby happens to be a pro at edgeguarding ROB. D-air at least will probably trade hits with his U-air, so do it over and over again until he runs out of fuel. ROB edgeguarding Kirby...is much harder. ROB isn't as maneuverable, so chances are you might even be able to punish his whiff by edgeguarding him back.

So... do a falling nair to get them off of you if u-air isn't working. Mix up your off-stage defense. As for your off stage gimping game, try using your projectiles first, then follow up with stuff like fair. Kirby can only be hit so many times off stage before he gets in real trouble. Also, do you know where the thread is that lists out character movement speed? I don't remember Kirby being faster than ROB in the air, but I'm not sure.

And then landing kill moves. Man...this is a total pain in the butt for ROB. The only real way ROB can land a kill move is by predicting an air dodge/Up-B with N-air or whatever. And that might even be stale if he's forced to use it to muscle his way back stage. Kirby can duck under his F-smash and punish (assuming he doesn't angle it down). And if you can bait his down-smash and have good reaction, make him eat a F-smash and regret it.

Oh, and if you want to rub salt in his wounds, swallow him and catch his Gyro.

Try using glide toss approaches, and mix it up between f-smash, u-smash (if the gyro hits and pops us into the air) and grabs. Eventually the Kirby will catch on to the range, but it gives you a few set-ups to work with. I don't play ROB, but these are the types of things that usually catch me. I can't speak for the other Kirby players though, and again, I haven't played this MU for quite some time. Oh, and yes. Kirby's ROB power is freaking win. Don't let us get it. Even if we don't know how to use it, hearing Kirby say "BEEE" every time we use it is just too good.

A2ZOMG · Jul 4, 2009

thrillagorilla said:
This is why. Your projectiles are much more useful in this MU if you don't try to camp with them.

What are you trying to tell me? The point I'm trying to make is that Kirby has a very easy time avoiding ROB's projectiles.

The fact that we need to use our f-smash to compete with the range on your much faster tilts should say something. d-tilt alone should be giving Kirby problems. ROB can limit an air approach with f-tilt and projectiles, so a grounded approach is our best bet. Then we have to compete with your longer-range d-tilt. Its not impossible for Kirby to get in, but once he does he still has to work hard to keep up with ROB's options. Its doable, but hard. Also, what Kirby do you play against that uses f-smashes to compete with your range and why aren't you punishing her/him?

Let's rephrase that.

More like, the fact that Kirby can throw out something on the ground that can hit ROB should say something.

You can limit his F-tilt game by hovering above it and falling with B-airs. And there isn't a whole ton he can do about it.

Also...it's not like Kirby even has to compete with ROB's range if he can simply punish it. You don't know how much it hurts to get your Down-smash baited and punished by Kirby's F-smash. In fact, attacking with ROB might just be an opportunity for Kirby to hit his hand. =/

So... do a falling nair to get them off of you if u-air isn't working. Mix up your off-stage defense. As for your off stage gimping game, try using your projectiles first, then follow up with stuff like fair. Kirby can only be hit so many times off stage before he gets in real trouble. Also, do you know where the thread is that lists out character movement speed? I don't remember Kirby being faster than ROB in the air, but I'm not sure.

Man...do you even know what multiple midair jumps are?

Try using glide toss approaches, and mix it up between f-smash, u-smash (if the gyro hits and pops us into the air) and grabs. Eventually the Kirby will catch on to the range, but it gives you a few set-ups to work with. I don't play ROB, but these are the types of things that usually catch me. I can't speak for the other Kirby players though, and again, I haven't played this MU for quite some time. Oh, and yes. Kirby's ROB power is freaking win. Don't let us get it. Even if we don't know how to use it, hearing Kirby say "BEEE" every time we use it is just too good.

Approach Kirby? You got to be kidding me. Considering all those juggle combos he's got that ROB really doesn't want to be on the receiving end on. Yeah, ROB has some stuff like U-tilt beating Kirby's D-air, and F-air -> F-air strings but it doesn't compare at all to what Kirby can do to him.

Falconv1.0 · Jul 4, 2009

Thrilla sometimes it's like you purposely ignore what people say so they have to restate it nice and slow.

CaliburChamp · Jul 5, 2009

Falconv1.0 said:
No, you listed Inui vs Chu, which bumps down your credibility by over 9,000. Chu went even with a guy playing well with Snake, that's 30 times better of an example than some bull **** were Inui was playing an MK worse than MINE.

I have a question, how does a character with less advantages vs Kirby than MK have a harder match up. Yeah, don't do math while high please.

Dude, think whatever you want, I don't care that you don't agree with me.

And... to answer your question...
Certain character's move sets vs Kirby's movesets sets the matchup. Don't confuse tiers for match ups. MK lacks projectiles while ROB doesn't for one example. Also ROB is heavier and bigger than MK.

Falconv1.0 · Jul 5, 2009

CaliburChamp said:
Dude, think whatever you want, I don't care that you don't agree with me.

And... to answer your question...
Certain character's move sets vs Kirby's movesets sets the matchup. Don't confuse tiers for match ups. MK lacks projectiles while ROB doesn't for one example. Also ROB is heavier and bigger than MK.

I never said tier, or better moves, I said better advantages, read the friggin post.

ROB isn't hard to gimp, cant gimp Kirby well, trading hits is usually a no no, his projectiles are not that big of a deal, and his kill moves can go suck big balls.

MK pretty much never trades hits with our tilts, he just wins, has cant be gimped, he can try to gimp us and hurt us quite a bit, and a defensive MK is such a ***** to fight.

Yeah.

t!MmY · Jul 5, 2009

Kirby vs. R.O.B.

45:55, R.O.B.'s favor.

§leepy God · Jul 5, 2009

♪ Yep, even the amazing T!Mmy have the same ratio in mind, I feel much better now. :D †

♪ though some of the ROB mains differ it's even, but I don't think so. ^_^; †

t!MmY · Jul 5, 2009

The reason why some people say it's in Kirby's favor is because of Kirby's combo prowess on R.O.B. and his vastly greater ability to KO compared to R.O.B. What these people don't realize is that when you learn the match-up very deeply, the advantage trickles away from Kirby and starts to be more neutral. Kirby's combos get Smash DI'd, and all of Kirby's KO options are too risky and easy to punish to get those early KOs.

What gives R.O.B. the slight advantage is how is is able to attack from a little farther away, hits just a little quicker, tacks on that extra little damage from projectiles, and, oh, is heavy and takes three D-airs instead of one to gimp.

CaliburChamp · Jul 5, 2009

The great Calibur agree it's in ROB's advantage. =P

fromundaman · Jul 5, 2009

t!MmY said:
The reason why some people say it's in Kirby's favor is because of Kirby's combo prowess on R.O.B. and his vastly greater ability to KO compared to R.O.B. What these people don't realize is that when you learn the match-up very deeply, the advantage trickles away from Kirby and starts to be more neutral. Kirby's combos get Smash DI'd, and all of Kirby's KO options are too risky and easy to punish to get those early KOs.

What gives R.O.B. the slight advantage is how is is able to attack from a little farther away, hits just a little quicker, tacks on that extra little damage from projectiles, and, oh, is heavy and takes three D-airs instead of one to gimp.

I have yet to post on this MU (I will one of these days when I get time), but I pretty much completely agree with this.
It always feels like Kirby's advantage for the first 3 games or so, and after that the advantage kind of disappears, and while the ROB player learns to neutralize our advantages, his are still there.

55-45 ROB sounds good to me.

Delta Z · Jul 6, 2009

Yeah, I gotta agree with you guys on this. 45-55, or maybe even.

CaliburChamp said:
Also ROB is heavier and bigger than MK.

More of an emphasis on "bigger", though. Larger characters are inherently easier to hit.

Lord Viper · Jul 6, 2009

☆ Yea, 45/55 ROB and not 40/60 or lower will do. I don't find ROB easy to fight in my option, but I can fight a ROB with Ness, which is weird because ROB should be able to beat Ness, IMO. ☆

A1lion835 · Jul 6, 2009

t!MmY said:
The reason why some people say it's in Kirby's favor is because of Kirby's combo prowess on R.O.B. and his vastly greater ability to KO compared to R.O.B. What these people don't realize is that when you learn the match-up very deeply, the advantage trickles away from Kirby and starts to be more neutral. Kirby's combos get Smash DI'd, and all of Kirby's KO options are too risky and easy to punish to get those early KOs.

What gives R.O.B. the slight advantage is how is is able to attack from a little farther away, hits just a little quicker, tacks on that extra little damage from projectiles, and, oh, is heavy and takes three D-airs instead of one to gimp.

Could you write up your thoughts? Not that I think you have nothing to back up your claim with, but it helps to have the written stuff so we can see why you think that.

TreK · Jul 8, 2009

Ohai
Could you come by the diddy boards, please ? We're discussing the Diddy vs Kirby matchup and input would be welcome, thx =]
Here is our thread http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240437

Terra~ · Jul 8, 2009

Good hustle, but the board is far behind a few other ones

. Nonetheless, keep it up! With all the info I get I'll be able to make a comprehensive match-up chart with each boards thoughts. Don't stop now!

Falconv1.0 · Jul 8, 2009

I vote Marf. Just for lulz/WHAT THE **** DO YOU DO.

fromundaman · Jul 8, 2009

Falconv1.0 said:
I vote Marf. Just for lulz/WHAT THE **** DO YOU DO.

Allow me to quote you the advice YbM gave me on this matchup when I asked:

"This isn't a character I feel like I should be losing to, so I don't."

Lord Viper · Jul 8, 2009

☆ Are you sure he didn't add, "always ban Battlefield" in his advice because that would be really helpful on the Marth match up. ☆

momochuu · Jul 8, 2009

The best advice against Marth is to just stand there and take it. There's nothing you can do about it.

fromundaman · Jul 8, 2009

Viper JLT4GOV said:
☆ Are you sure he didn't add, "always ban Battlefield" in his advice because that would be really helpful on the Marth match up. ☆

I think that was understood.

No, I mention this because it didn't help at all, but he felt he had no better way to describe it.

I need to watch him play Marths though, because the Marth players at that tourny that he played got destroyed... Might just have been because he's a vastly better player.... I don't know.

t!MmY · Jul 8, 2009

A1lion835 said:
Could you write up your thoughts? Not that I think you have nothing to back up your claim with, but it helps to have the written stuff so we can see why you think that.

Yes, I could but I have much more info on this match-up than I have time to write about it. Perhaps after I get back from Genesis & EVO ... and after crashing from the two week trip and sleeping for a couple days. lol.

A1lion835 · Jul 8, 2009

t!MmY said:
Yes, I could but I have much more info on this match-up than I have time to write about it. Perhaps after I get back from Genesis & EVO ... and after crashing from the two week trip and sleeping for a couple days. lol.

Okay

. I'll be waiting!

So, marth it is!

t!MmY · Jul 8, 2009

Well... I figured I could write something quickly up now before leaving you waiting for it for two weeks...

Kirby vs. R.O.B.

There can be a bit of a confusion on who has the upper hand in this match-up, so I will be going over each characters advantages and what options each character has against those advantages.

Long Range
R.O.B. has a big advantage when at long distance. Not only does his Laser reach exceptionally far, it also charges over time. He can combine his lasers with his Gyro to more than double his long range effectiveness. A fully charged Gyro can also become a KO option for him when Kirby is at high percents.

Kirby has little he can do at long range save for Final Cutter which is a very ineffective option. Kirby is forced to approach in this match-up, and not only does he have to approach he has to do so while avoiding lasers and Gyros. Crouching can be effectiev against the laser, but ROB can angle the laser down to hit Kirby. Likewise if Kirby tries to jump ROB can angle the laser up to hit. Watch where ROB is angling his laser when you choose to walk, crouch, or jump from a distance. In the air, you'll have to Air Dodge, on the ground you'll want to Shield and block the laser.

The Gyro provides much more difficulties when avoiding. You have to know how far it will fly based on how much it is charged because if it is not charged much and you try to Shield, it might fall in front of you or bounce along the ground and shield stab your feet. If it is fully charged, it comes out very quickly and you'll want to know ahead of time to get your shield up in time. The Gyro can also go over Kirby's head if thrown from a bit of a height and fully charged, or it can drop down and hit Kirby on the head if it is not charged enough to go overhead. Know the distances, how much the Gyro is charged, and when to hold your shield, crouch, or dodge.

If Kirby has copied ROB's laser, you'll have a much easier time at long range. ROB's laser will allow Kirby to strike from long distances either to follow up on an attack or to out-range one of ROB's attacks. It's also great to put added pressure on ROB when he is out of reach. In short, it helps even the odds by giving Kirby some camping options or anti-camping options. Be aware that when Kirby Copies ROB, Kirby can get hit immediately by ROB's D-air before he can get a Shield up. A Star Shot will keep Kirby safe and you can even try to follow-up should the ROB lag himself with his D-air after the Star Shot.

Medium Range
This is the tricky part of playing against ROB. ROB's attacks have more reach than Kirby's and are more disjointed which gives ROB a 'first strike' kind of option. While Kirby has to move in close to get his hits in, ROB can throw out an attack ahead of time and catch Kirby before Kirby can ever get within reach. Kirby needs to play tricky to get in by either going for a dashing Shield, an approaching Air Dodge, or rolling behind ROB. All of these options are not very solid and can be countered with only a little bit of foresight on ROB's part.

Most of the time it is best just to stay a little out of ROB's reach and bait his attacks. Kirby's B-air can come out quickly enough with enough reach to catch ROB if he tries to get a little too aggressive and misses. Watch for when ROB misses a F-air or Grab to punish him with a B-air. Using F-air can be useful because if you happen to hit ROB's shield you'll be in the air to avoid the D-smash, so pull back with your F-air if you hit a Shield, even moving behind ROB's Shield isn't all too safe.

Watch for ROB's F-tilt at this range. It has such suprising reach and speed that it can be used even at this range. If ROB is too far away, the F-tilt is hard to punish and ROB is safe. If it is used at the perfect reach there's little Kirby can do to punish it even if he doesn't take damage from it. So unless Kirby is reacting from a Perfect Shield at the far end of ROB's F-tilt, it's best to not rush in and try to punish it.

Thankfully at this range Kirby can use a couple of attacks. The F-smash is a powerhouse move that can out-prioritize many of ROB's attacks and has a good reach to it and the Final Cutter's blade can catch ROB as he moves in for an attack or gets too close when looking for an opening. Unfortunately both of these moves are easy to punish even with the slightest of miscalculations, so it's best to use these only when the opening presents itself.

Close Range
Kirby can keep up with ROB here, and this is where you want to be for the most part. But Kirby must be fast and confident in his attacks. When ROB is right in front of Kirby, he is capable of using a 3-frame Jab with great effectiveness. The speed of his Jab beats out everything except for Kirby's Jab (also 3-frames) but the range and hitstun on Kirby's Jab is pitifully inadequete to deal with ROB's. In fact, if ROB hits Kirby with a Jab the knockback pulls Kirby up and toward ROB with a good amount of HitStun. This allows ROB to follow-up with a F-smash at higher percents so Kirby will either have to Smash DI out of the Jab or make sure he DI's up against the F-smash to as to not get KO'd easily. ROB can also opt to do a second Jab in his Jab combo which can be used to knock Kirby away to more managable distances.

ROB has other excellent options when up close including his D-tilt. The D-tilt has a high probability of tripping at low percents which gives ROB an excellent option for building damage. A Jab at low percents can also be used as a lead into a D-tilt, from there ROB can do a number of things, but some of the best options include D-tilt to Dash Attack or D-tilt to Grab. The Dash Attack can be used to launch Kirby into another follow-up (F-smash, U-smash, U-tilt) and the Grab can be used to get Kirby off the stage or to get him into the air for a U-air.

Don't forget about ROB's D-smash. It comes out in 4-frames and can do up to 13% damage and launch Kirby. The knockback isn't dangerous until about 150% for Kirby, so remember to Smash DI up as soon as you can when hit by the D-smash and Kirby should rarely be KO'd by this. What it's main use is for a quick hit on both sides of ROB which gets Kirby away and builds more damage on Kirby. What Kirby must do is to hold his Shield against all the hits of the D-smash because ROB is fairly easy to punish after a D-smash. Kirby might be able to get a Grab on ROB if he is close enough when the D-smash is used, or Kirby can go for a D-tilt, F-tilt, U-tilt, or F-smash.

Kirby's U-tilt is very effective at this range. U-tilt will launch ROB into the air, and at low percents can lead to a number of attacks. These attacks are of the usual Kirby fare (U-tilt, B-air, U-air, N-air). While you might not be able to build a huge amount of damage when you get a U-tilt in, remember that every hit helps and also remember not to get too carried away trying to 'combo'. ROB has plenty of options to hit you the moment he is out of HitStun, or he can simply Air Dodge back to the ground and retaliate.

A very important part of the U-tilt is to be able to distinguish when to use it instead of another attack at a moment's notice. The U-tilt comes out in 4-frames which gives you the option of a very quick hit. You'll be needing it's speed in situations where you have no time to think. So if you see ROB move behind you, whether with a Roll, Air Dodge or as he runs behind to Pivot Grab, react without thought and hit him with the U-tilt's speed.

Getting a Grab with Kirby is also very important because it can lead to the standard Kirby combo (F-throw to U-air). This works exceptionally well on ROB due to his large size and heavy weight. Follow up with what you can but watch where ROB is going and what he is trying to do. F-throw to U-air to reverse U-tilt to B-air is great for building up damage, but ROB can Smash DI the U-air and jump away from anything taking at the most 18%. Consider anything Kirby does beyond that as a bonus since ROB really shouldn't be taking more than 18% with proper DI.

Even at higher percents a Grab can be good news for Kirby. Pummel a couple times and using a D-throw can be a great way to build damage and put ROB in an akward position. ROB is not very efficient while right overhead of his opponents since he is pretty much limited to D-air, N-air and Air Dodge. Wait for ROB to come back down and either Shield his aerial attack or read his Air Dodge attempt and punish with either another Grab-Pummel-Throw or catch him with a F-smash/Hammer.

Off-Stage: Kirby's Recovery
When Kirby is off-stage ROB will usually try to follow up with Lasers and Gyros. These can actually be quite deadly if Kirby isn't paying attention because a fully-charged laser can follow Kirby off-stage and KO him while he is close to the death boundaries. Even an uncharged Laser can give that extra nudge and lead into a KO. Gyros are dangerous because of their strong knockback, especially fully-charged Gyros which deal a good amount of damage.

If ROB comes off stage in an aggressive attempt to finish off Kirby, it will usually be with F-air, D-air, or B-air. The F-air is there because it's easy to use; it's not necessarily going to KO Kirby because the knockback is easy to DI up and survive, but it can be used to build damage and nullify Kirby's jumps. The D-air comes out slowly, but is used for a strong spike. Kirby is unable to handle Meteor Smashes well, so make sure to watch out for ROB's D-air any time ROB is overhead. ROB's B-air is a strong horizontal strike that can get KO's fairly well against Kirby. There's a bit of a start-up so watch when it might be used and avoid it.

Kirby can do a good job avoiding many things ROB throws at him while he recovers. Use Kirby's multiple jumps to either go low, go upward, or to zigzag between ROB's edge guarding. It shouldn't be too much trouble to make it back to the ledge and grab on. From there, you'll have to play a bit patiently to see what ROB is up to. He can run off and B-air from behind to get you off the ledge which will stage spike Kirby if he doesn't climb up soon enough. ROB can also stay back and shoot stuff at Kirby while waiting for him to get back on the ledge. Kirby must not be too hasty when getting back up or else he is in danger of getting sent right back off stage again or outright KO'd.

Off-Stage: ROB's Recovery

ROB's recovery is just short of spectacular. His weight keeps him alive for a while and prevents him from getting KO'd from attacks that would KO other characters. While he only has a single mid-air Jump, his Robo Booster allows him quite a bit of flight as long as his fuel reserves are not exhausted.

When ROB is far off the stage, Kirby can either stay on the stage to wait to see what ROB does (maybe throwing out a Final Cutter shot) or he can try to take the fight to the air. The reason why you might want to wait and see what ROB does is because he's still capable of shooting lasers and Gyros at Kirby even during his recovery, running headlong into one of those is pretty detrimental to edge guarding.

If Kirby goes out after ROB it will usually be to go for a gimp or to try to get a finishing move on a ROB that refuses to die quietly. The most common Kirby gimp would be the D-air in an attempt to spike ROB off the bottom of the stage. ROB is very difficult to do this to because of his heavy weight and his Robo Boosters. Kirby might have to D-air to Footstool multiple times before ROB runs out of fuel or gets taken down off the very bottom of the screen and dies.

When Kirby is looking for the KO off-stage, it will usually be with a B-air, F-air, or Giant Swing (F-Special). The B-air is normally spammed and won't likely KO ROB until very high percents - even this close to the death boundary. If the B-air is fresh, it can KO at fairly reasonable percents. The F-air only really KO's with the third kick and only at high percents or when close to the boundary, but it can KO none-the-less. The Giant Swing is the most powerful option Kirby has off-stage and can KO at almost any percent, most notably with the second swing. The first swing has a more pronounced vertical angle which makes it slightly harder to KO ROB with off the side, but it's such a strong hit that it's likely to KO off the top too.

ROB has plenty leisure time during his recovery which takes a lot of pressure off of him that other characters with more limited recoveries might have. His F-air is an excellent tool when he feels like muscling his way back onto the stage; it comes out quickly with a nice hitbox in front of him and can knock Kirby away clearing a path to the ledge or stage. When slightly above Kirby, a N-air can perform a similar function putting a big hitbox all around ROB to fend off much of Kirby's offense. While Air Dodging can look to be a good idea most of the time, ROB has to remember that Kirby's Giant Swing hits twice and can catch an Air Dodging ROB with the second swing which is very often fatal.

Lasers and Gyros can always be used, especially if Kirby decides to play it safe and stay on the stage. Even if Kirby comes off the stage, a well-timed laser or well-placed Gyro can catch him before he ever has a chance to reach ROB. Bouncing Gyros off the side of the stage for a boomarang type of effect can catch Kirby off-guard sometimes. For the most part, ROB can fly back to the stage and send attacks at Kirby when necessary.

KO Options

ROB has a lack of powerful attacks, and the ones he has are not especially easy to land. His U-smash can KO Kirby around 90-100% but the hitbox is right over ROB and difficult to land. ROB's full-charged Gyro can be strong enough to be used as a KO option, but it can be stale and is easily defended against. For the most part, ROB will have to rely on his N-air, or possibly his F-smash, both of which do not KO until much higher percents (about 130%). Since ROB's choice of KO attacks is limited, they become easy to defend against allowing Kirby to live to much higher percents than his light weight would seem to allow.

Kirby has a number of strong attacks at his disposal, some are absurdly powerful. Kirby can KO with the Stone, Hammer, Giant Swing, F-smash, U-smash, and D-smash. The Stone and Hammer should be avoided for the most part since they're hard to land and easy to punish. The Giant Swing can be a bit difficult to land, but it's much safer to use and can be very effective while off-stage. Of all of Kirby's smashes, F-smash is the most effective due to it's reach and power, and it comes out fairly quickly for a Smash. The F-smash is often the best choice when predicting ROB's Dodges or when using an attack to hit through ROB's F-air, F-tilt, D-tilt, or Jab. A D-air or D-tilt trip can combo into an F-smash which can give Kirby that early KO he's looking for.

While Kirby's KO options are better than ROB's, they can still be difficult to land, especially when ROB is looking for their usual instances and baits Kirby into using one. Because of this, Kirby will have to play it safe for most of the fight and keep an eye open for when he can land one of his finishers. Since ROB has plenty of options to keep himself safe, he will often live to percents far past what Kirby could be KOing him at, but once he reaches around the 150% mark, Kirby has more options open for KOs. The most important of these is a fresh B-air since it comes out quickly and can be used much more safely than say the F-smash. The F-air can also be used for a KO at high percents and the third kick can be dangerous even for ROB when off-stage.

While it should be unlikely to work it should still be mentioned that Kirby can get KO's with his Inhale Kirbycide. It should be even more difficult than normal because if ROB breaks out his recovery practically allows him freedom to return to the stage and could even put Kirby at a disadvantageous position. Even if Kirby uses Star Shot to send ROB under the stage, ROB should have no difficulty making it back without getting KO'd.

Summary:
45-55 ROB's Advantage

§leepy God · Jul 8, 2009

♪ Another character I main, if you say Ness or Ike then I know something ain't right. O_o †

♪ I'll BRB on this match up since my Marth got owned by Kirby before, I'll face more Kirby mains with Marth soon. †

A1lion835 · Jul 8, 2009

t!MmY said:
Well... I figured I could write something quickly up now before leaving you waiting for it for two weeks...

*humungoginorouswalloftext!*

How the **** did you do that so fast O_o I'm pretty sure you haven't covered ROB in your matchup thread on AiB...

Shaya · Jul 8, 2009

I think Marth vs Kirby is even...

Kirby's bair cannot be outspaced by Marth... Fair will at best clash... Five jumps to accompany this is ... harsh.

Kirby kills us earlier... the grab game is very frustrating for Marth to avoid and deals a lot of damage...

T-nuts · Jul 8, 2009

KawaiiBunny! said:
The best advice against Marth is to just stand there and take it. There's nothing you can do about it.

hahaha ok now that we know how to fight marth on to matchup #9

Doomblaze · Jul 8, 2009

Shaya youre funny
Kawaiibunny basically summed it up guys

Honestly though, grabs are your friend. You have to get inside our safe zone of Fair and Dtilt and dancing blade and grab us and Utilt us. We can dolphin slash your jab and dash attack so dont try using those. Your fair is decent, and your Ftilt is really good because of its little lag and long range.

Can we punish your Bair with our Fair and dancing blade? I can do it to my friend but hes horrible at brawl so i can never tell with him.

Save your Fsmash for the kill, and an "easy" way to land it is to get us in the air with anything and go behind us so we cant Fair you. You can shield the Bair fairly easily if we're close to you and in the ending lag just Fsmash us. The problem with this is conditioning us to it.

Falconv1.0 · Jul 8, 2009

Shaya said:
I think Marth vs Kirby is even...

Kirby's bair cannot be outspaced by Marth... Fair will at best clash... Five jumps to accompany this is ... harsh.

Kirby kills us earlier... the grab game is very frustrating for Marth to avoid and deals a lot of damage...

Took me a few seconds to realize you weren't serious, then I lol'd.

A1lion835 · Jul 8, 2009

Doomblaze said:
Honestly though, grabs are your friend.

I agree with this quote. I'd also like to add that you can DS us out of our fthrow->uair...but if we predict that, we can airdodge backwards and punish with a hammer. It's best to just use dthrow for a guaranteed 12% and then shieldgrab you for more dthrows if you're stupid enough to try to attack us out of it.

Doomblaze said:
You have to get inside our safe zone of Fair and Dtilt and dancing blade and grab us and Utilt us.

How would we go about doing that? I'm not challenging your statement or saying it's impossible, I'm just asking...how would we do that?

Doomblaze said:
Your fair is decent

I'm not sure how good fair is in this matchup...but then again, there are more avid fair users than me, lol. Asidoh would probably have an accurate post about how good/not good our fair is in this matchup.

Doomblaze said:
and your Ftilt is really good because of its little lag and long range.

Yesz!

Doomblaze said:
Can we punish your Bair with our Fair and dancing blade? I can do it to my friend but hes horrible at brawl so i can never tell with him.

AFAIK, bair doesn't have enough range to beat out most of your sword attacks.

Two things I'd like to add: our attacks can clank with yours if your sword is going in the arc of...how do I explain this...okay, it's like this: if you fsmash us and our fsmash hits your sword as the sword is still coming down, the little clanking circle thing will come up and our moves will clank.

Second is that, IIRC, your ftilt pretty much counters our aerial approaches, except an aerial final cutter, but I have trouble imagining why we would use final cutter at close range against you.

Ladybug · Jul 9, 2009

Marth has the advantage. I play both and I would never pick a Kirby against a Marth. Kirby has some nice air game but on the ground, unless he can get in close, he's screwed. Marth is a bit faster and can keep Kirby at bay. He's a beast at edge guarding plus, depending, he can have priority and knock you right off the ledge.

The one nice thing about Kirby and Marth on Kirby's side is the fact that we have so many jumps. Since Marth up b doesn't have a very high range, it's very easy to get a Kirbycide on him and take him down to where he can't come back. It works really well with a spot dodge or roll behind (depending on the move) and suck from behind. Then you can shoot him under the stage and his chance of recovery are very slim. But at the same time if this isn't timed right he's got the ledge again and can spike you.

Keep Marth off the ground. His main game is obviously his ground game. If you keep him in the air you can generally wrack up a lot of damage. Plus, if you get him stunned you can get your grabs in. Do not do a down b on him. Unless you have him completely incapacitated, his up b can get you before you completely stone and he's faster than you when you come out of it so it can be punished really easily by Marth. You can get him on stone slides though so if you have the opportunity to do that then try, but make sure you get off the edge before coming back out of stone, especially at a high percentage because a smash will kill you. Plus you'll have all five of your jumps and if he is edge guarding, do an up b, just make sure you don't hold down (as we all found out.

) so you grab the ledge and make sure you do it low enough so he can't punish mid-frame. Although your safest bet would probably be to just jump up and hammer him away from the ledge. He can match it, but it saves you and allows you to get back on the stage and shield or dodge the next attack.

If I think of anything else I'll write it down but I'm a bit slow this morning with the thinking. >_<

OH! Stages: Ban Battlefield. Ban anything flat. Smashville is good because of the stone slides... Don't play on Corneria. Um... Japes wouldn't be bad against him, but it isn't the best either. Pretty much just nothing flat. OH! And no PS. There are too many options for you to get completely screwed on that stage.

A1lion835 · Jul 9, 2009

Ladybug said:
*wall of text which I don't really find anything I think is wrong in*
OH! Stages: Ban Battlefield. Ban anything flat. Smashville is good because of the stone slides... Don't play on Corneria. Um... Japes wouldn't be bad against him, but it isn't the best either. Pretty much just nothing flat. OH! And no PS. There are too many options for you to get completely screwed on that stage.

Yea, battlefield >.<. Worst stage you can possibly take him too. Stone slides on smashvile...? Isn't Corneria banned

? I agree with the thing about Japes...I'd go RC, as it's a good stage for us and marth doesn't really gain anything from there. I have a question though:

Yoshi's Island (Brawl). Should we pick it? As I recall, both sides either hate it or love it, depending on the player. In everyone's opinion, how good a stage is this?

~Shao~ · Jul 9, 2009

Finally, a match-up I know. I'll write something in-depth later. And as everybody said, BAN BATTLEFIELD.

Ladybug · Jul 9, 2009

Err, sorry, I meant Yoshi's for the stone slides, not smashville. I had two different thoughts in my head and they got mushed together into the wrong statement.

Generally anything with platforms can either be a good thing or a bad thing when playing with a Marth. Since his sword likes to go under platforms, you have to make sure you're not in a position to get caught by the sword, but at the same time, if it's the other way around you can really punish him since it keeps you under him and not ground to ground.

And Corneria isn't banned everywhere... Just some places.

SheerMadness · Jul 9, 2009

The Marth matchup never seemed very bad to me. I'd much rather fight a Marth than like 10 other characters.

Can't possibly be any worse than 55-45 IMO. Personally I'd put it at 50/50.

Lord Viper · Jul 9, 2009

☆ Marth never seem like a much too hard to me as well.. in Brawl, though I hate to be picky with stages with him. And I guess a lot of people forgot to look at the stage discussion thread, unless it's utterly useless and I have to redo the whole thing. So far the awful stages to take Marth is Battlefield, Yoshi's Island, and Halberd. Best stage to take Marth is Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise, and Luigi's Mansion. ☆

Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

Smash Master

Smash Master

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Smash Ace

Smash Legend

Smash Master

Smash Master

Smash Master

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Henshin a go-go Baby!

Smash Journeyman

SS Rank

Smash Champion

Is "that guy"

Smash Journeyman

Smash Master

Henshin a go-go Baby!

SS Rank

Smash Legend

Henshin a go-go Baby!

Smash Hero

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Smash Champion

「chase you」

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Master

Smash Champion

Smash Lord

Smash Champion

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Master

SS Rank

Information

Network

　　「chase you」　