Official Wolf Metagame Discussion

Koskinator · May 12, 2008

Greetings fellow Wolf players. You may remember me from such threads as, The Essence of Wolf, or, Wolfs Reflector: An In Depth Guide. I come today to bring you a new thread focused on the ever evolving metagame of Wolf. Currently standing, the metagame is largely focused on Wolf walling and using bair as your main focus of damage, among other things. I want your guys' input on how you think the metagame will evovle over time.
You may commence discussion.

Koskinator

ElPadrino · May 12, 2008

As a Wolf mainer I use Bairs a lot, surprisingly enough if you land his Dair the hitstun will be long enough for you to land a Bair on the other player.

Once I throw them of the edge I tend to shoot the blaster once or twice (depending on where the enmy is) and then Bair or edgehog>edgehop>Bair (or Dair depending on the circumstances)

Forward tilt is a charm, most people don't use it enough but it pokes the shield and it comes out pretty quick.

Side special is also good once you manage to time it right and aim it right, be carefull for the ending lag or you'll be severly punished.

Use reflector often, but don't make it predictable.

Wolf taunts are awesome.

Only thing I very much dislike about wolf is his recovery, sometimes you have to use it so fast that you won't have time to aim it right, thus being badly gimped thanks to his incredibly small sweetspot area.

acv · May 12, 2008

imo i think it will depend on how people get used to his Bair and eventualy they will find out how to counter it.also depends on which new game exploit or glitch is found next.

ChronoTrigga · May 12, 2008

I tend to use neutral air while they are on the ground alot backed up by either a up smash or up A.

cabetardo · May 12, 2008

I have been working on Wolf's Bthrow lately, looking at different ways to use it thanks to its relatively low post-lag and the limited DI it allows.
Here are some interesting things I've found out:

I have managed to do a Bthrow near the ledge to Dair in order to spike as at as low percentages as 20% before the grab. Don't abuse it because it is horribly predictable but it can be good for a surprise kill when facing new opponents or after using other throws.

Also you can do a Bthrow to Sweet spotted Illusion anywhere from around 35% all the way to 70ish% BEFORE grabbing. The Sweetspot almost always sends backwards at very horizontal angle but you can also get spiking sweetspots from time to time. Bear in mind that the Illusion can be Air dodged if the opponent is under 60ish.

This two uses for Bthrow might confuse the opponent the first few times thanks to how underused they are and could be used to your advantage in order to surprise them.

Deleted member · May 12, 2008

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Captain Sa10 · May 12, 2008

Well so far i've been slowly changing my gameplay style with wolf everyday. Here's just some of the many thng's I believe will increase in wolf gameplay over time:

The Uses of Uair- I've come to realize some many different things that are useful with the Uair. A SHFF'ed Uair into the opponent is extremely surprising as it also has relatively no lag while landing. If done correctly can be chained into mutiple aerial combo's. Im sure there will come with more uair reliances.

More uses for Bair- Just as said, their will be more uses for bair and possibly a even greater technique involving it.

Blaster game- Im believig that theblaster game will evolve into an evenmore purposeful weapon. It may not advance much but will definetly gain some credit later on.

0 Lag Fair-This is pretty much stuck where it is other then combo purposes, but may turn into something bigger. Right now though, it's just an alternative to using his fair.

Side B- Eventually, side B will gain more purposes other then for recovery and some odd spikes off he edge. Im trying to use it a bit more offensively but it's still not that good of an offensive as it is defensive.

Reflector-The reflector game paly is beginning to reach the peak in its game as it's being more and more incorporated into the gameplay of wolf. IF anything, the reflector will grow to be offensively and defensively in the near future.

F-tilt- F-tilt is being brought out more and more as the game begins to grow, and with that said is one of wolve's move's that slowly finding away into the gameplay. Surely this is going to become the alternative to f-smashing in the future(in some cases).

Nair- I believe his nair was one of the most criticized move he had, and is now rapidly evolving into one of his best, next to his bair. In future metagame, Nair is going to be one of the many great moves in wolf play.

D-tilt- LIke f-tilt, d-titl is slowly creeping up into the many aspects of wolf play. Right now, it's not to well known, but people who understnad some of its good aspects, abuse it when needed.

Koskinator · May 13, 2008

I personally see Wolfs game being taken more to the air than the ground. Most damage will be done in the air and he will finish on the ground. I also see Nair becoming a viable KO move in the future. Obviously not amazing or anything, but it could be a good interceptor on the first frame. Because of the trajectory of the knockback frame on Nair, you could jump out, Nair with knockback, and possibly get a KO. Think of it as intercepting with Sheiks Fair from melee.

Juggalo · May 13, 2008

Utilt ftw. Should almost always be at full strength since the opportunities for it are slim. Nair to utilt gets the opponent where you want them to be for your next string of hits better, but nair to usmash can get the kill earlier.

Dtilt an opponent close to the edge when the opponent's at like 100%. If it trips, slightly charged fsmash. If it doesn't trip, follow up with your Wolf flavor.

Tip-hitting people with the ftilt for its different knockback properties kicks *ss

Forward B is good for a surprise hit in close ranges, to get away from the opponent.

If you rapidly tap B after doing Forward B, you'll more reliably get the earliest-cancelled Wolf Flash than any other outcome, which I think will be getting incorporated more in the future.

Patinator · May 13, 2008

Wolf seems to have an almost equal game when it comes to the air and ground. He can combo more in the air, but he can finish onstage more on the ground. Wolf players use different strategies; it all depends on their personal style.

I certainly agree with Captain Sa10.

Perhaps Short-Hopping D-Airs could be implemented more... As ElPadrino said, it combos into a B-Air. At 0%, you can get off this two-hit string and go from there with classic B-Air combos.

Also... [subscribe]

Koskinator · May 15, 2008

As far as I can tell, there are a few moves from Wolf that are and always shall be useless.
Fire Wolf

QUIVO · May 15, 2008

Seems like a lot of characters rely on bair for damage or kills in this game, but I don't really know enough yet so I guess I cant say much.

Koop_88 · May 16, 2008

D-smash is my favourite move in Wolf's arsenal. It has the best KO potential, hits forward and backwards, and is incredibly fast, which often catches your opponent offguard. a Nair to Dsmash is a fantastic combo for spacing you and your enemy, allowing for a Bair followup, or some good old laser play.

Wolf's Uair has very little priority and range, so those of you doing Nair to Usmash/Utilt, I would recommend trying Nair Dsmash, I personally find this a better combo (It's alot easier to contol the air game with wolf if you attack from the side, allowing for easier Fair's and Bair's).

Don't underestimate reflect! The ability to throw a quick reflect on someone who's just rolled behind you, or thought theyd smash you when you were a little too close to them can be deadly and leave your enemy wide open for a tasty smash.

Deleted member · May 16, 2008

..............

Captain Sa10 · May 17, 2008

If anyone wants to learn about wolf's chainshining which is one of his latest techniques found, then just go to this link:http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169506. If anything, this is one of next steps in using wolf's reflector to it's maximum potential.

Koskinator · May 19, 2008

I definetly see a shining light for Ftilt and Dtilt. For some reason or another I can see those 2 moves becoming much more prominent then ever over time. Also, I expect spiking will be brought into Wolfs gameplay quite a bit more often. It hurts me a little bit inside whenever I recover while in a perfectly prone position to get spiked, come on people, take chances! makes mistakes! spike noobs.

goodkid · May 19, 2008

I bet up-smash will come more into play. It is a decent kill move that isn't used often(I know its laggy), but still it has potential.

Juggalo · May 20, 2008

So I've been experimenting with Wolf's up B lately. Its hard to find a viable opportunity for it, but I've managed to land it every time I've tried, against intelligent tactical players.

Not as useless as I originally thought, but I've only found useful (situational) opportunities for using it at a diagonal angle, both up diag and down diag.

Also, using Wolf's uair right before I land on the ground has been fun. Nothing like starting a uair juggle session right after missing a bair and landing

AlAxe · May 20, 2008

I see wolf as having a great balance in his air and ground game. By combining both you can remain unpredictable and avoid being shield grabbed at close range.

By now I've realized that wolf illusion is a much greater recovery than fire wolf. I'm able to mix up scarring the ledge and sweetspotting the ledge very effectively to avoid edge guards.

Bair is one of wolf's great moves but it shouldn't be spammed. It can become predictable and lead to getting shield grabbed. One way I've been using bair is by jumping behind my opponent and hittting them as I land. That way if my opponent shields they cannot grab me. Bair is also an awesome edge guard and often as effective as a spike.

One of wolf's most underrated moves is his fair. Mastering the 0 lag short hopped fair is esssential to mastering wolf. This move is a great approach because it has 0 lag, does good damage, can be DIed forward of backward, and can even KO at higher percentages.

So far I haven't found Wolf's reflector to be greatly useful as an offensive weapon. In most cases I've found I'd be better off just using a AAA combo. If your opponent has good timing they can almost always get their shield up before you can combo into another move.

Koskinator · May 20, 2008

AlAxe said:
I see wolf as having a great balance in his air and ground game. By combining both you can remain unpredictable and avoid being shield grabbed at close range.

By now I've realized that wolf illusion is a much greater recovery than fire wolf. I'm able to mix up scarring the ledge and sweetspotting the ledge very effectively to avoid edge guards.

Bair is one of wolf's great moves but it shouldn't be spammed. It can become predictable and lead to getting shield grabbed. One way I've been using bair is by jumping behind my opponent and hittting them as I land. That way if my opponent shields they cannot grab me. Bair is also an awesome edge guard and often as effective as a spike.

One of wolf's most underrated moves is his fair. Mastering the 0 lag short hopped fair is esssential to mastering wolf. This move is a great approach because it has 0 lag, does good damage, can be DIed forward of backward, and can even KO at higher percentages.

So far I haven't found Wolf's reflector to be greatly useful as an offensive weapon. In most cases I've found I'd be better off just using a AAA combo. If your opponent has good timing they can almost always get their shield up before you can combo into another move.

I agree with almost all of what you said except the last part. Wolfs reflector can combo into an AAA or a downtilt almost all the time if you do it right. Also for the most part, you can usually get a downsmash if they are too slow with the shield.

Captain Sa10 · May 21, 2008

Koskinator said:
I agree with almost all of what you said except the last part. Wolfs reflector can combo into an AAA or a downtilt almost all the time if you do it right. Also for the most part, you can usually get a downsmash if they are too slow with the shield.

Kos is right. The reflector is WAY more offensive then believed. In order to REALLY master Wolf, you have to be able to use every move in the most effective ways possible, including defensive and offensive. Which means that, despite you(meaning everyone) may not like a particular move, it may just be that essential key in boosting your gameplay. Learning all the various amounts of lag on attacks opens up an even more vast airey of approaches, combo's, new techniques, etc. So far if only seen a few post on wolf's Uair(including mine, Juggalo, and others that agree with us). Have you ever tried a SHFf'ed Uair? IT's juggling potential is astronomical as it can instantly juggle an opponent even at 0%. Bair spacing while using Wall Of Wolf is an even better way to using your Bair, keeping you well spaced from some of those sheild-grabs and such. Finding hidden hitboxes such as the Bair's elbow hit box can cause for you to take the advantage at the simple fact that it has relatively no knockback, being able to be followed up by a multitude of moves.

Also, have you ever tried intercepting with an Reflector>Bair while someones recovering? Extremely effective when edgeguarding.

Juggalo · May 21, 2008

I never tried Shine>bair as a recovery gimp. I ought to give that one a shot. This thread kicks *** lol

Captain Sa10 · May 22, 2008

Juggalo said:
I never tried Shine>bair as a recovery gimp. I ought to give that one a shot. This thread kicks *** lol

Trust me, it can make your opponent go"WTF HOW THE HELL DID WOLF DO THAT!!! THATS LIKE HARDCORE HAXING GOING ON HERE!!!" and yea, this thread is pretty **** kick ***. I actually think that wolf's metagame is beginning to change slowly because of some of the recent things not only stated in this topic, but found as well.

Koskinator · May 22, 2008

Captain Sa10 said:
Trust me, it can make your opponent go"WTF HOW THE HELL DID WOLF DO THAT!!! THATS LIKE HARDCORE HAXING GOING ON HERE!!!" and yea, this thread is pretty **** kick ***. I actually think that wolf's metagame is beginning to change slowly because of some of the recent things not only stated in this topic, but found as well.

Lol, dont take things too far Sa10, metagames dont change overnight.

Captain Sa10 · May 22, 2008

Koskinator said:
Lol, dont take things too far Sa10, metagames dont change overnight.

also a true statement lol.. ALthough if that was possible then by god help the smash community @.@

Loup17 · May 22, 2008

well, he did say slowly xP

and on the note of using all moves effectively, Wolf's up b can be used. just because it's so bloody unexpected, you can surprise them with it. and i'm only talking like once a match here, tops, probably less often. but i can think of a situation where it can get you a kill. when an enemy is high damage and you knock them up, but not quite off the top, where they're out of wolf's range because they're higher than his two jumps, you can cover the extra distance with it and kill them, i've done it, and more than once. just make sure you bloody don't miss, cause you'll be more open than any other situation i can think of for the entire fall.

chronoize · May 22, 2008

i wanna believe that wolfs f-tilt will have something more to it. with the upward and downward f-tilt.

also what is gimping XD? sry for the noob question

DQP · May 22, 2008

AAAblaster is one of my favorite combos
i can use his blaster to easily ruin ness's or lucas's chances of recovery
i dunno, fire wolf is sometimes a bit useful, but i will always prefer wolf flash
i use fair to juggle my opponents
i never, NEVER use wolf flash unless its for recovery
his dair is an excellent spike
that's all i have to say

havocnetwork · May 22, 2008

What is metagame?

aromaticguilt · May 22, 2008

Gimping is basically when you interrupt someone's recovery which usually ends up in them not being able to recover again. But not a spike.

Tomato Kirby · May 22, 2008

"Know thy enemy." A good read...

So what are your stances on camping with Wolf and against other characters?

Patinator · May 22, 2008

Well... Generally, the REAL Wolf players frown upon camping and Blaster/F-Smash spamming. Like me.

But if your life- Or five bucks- depends on it, do what's effective! :laugh:

...That's what you meant, right?

Koskinator · May 22, 2008

Well said Patintor. Not to mention, if you front smash spam any good player, prepare yourself to get shield grabbed to hell and back

Juggalo · May 22, 2008

Gimping [Gym ∙ Peeng], verb:
1) F***ing someone/something up to the point where there's almost nothing the opponent/thing can do to stop it, i.e. Marth having the grab thing on Ness, i.e. smoking marijuana gimping your random piss test
2) F***ing somebody's recovery in a way thats hard to avoid, i.e. Lucario's upB not doing any damage so there's no risk in jumping to intercept at any point
3) Making an image in the photoshop-wannabe drawing tool called The Gimp

Captain Sa10 · May 23, 2008

Juggalo said:
Gimping [Gym ∙ Peeng], verb:
1) F***ing someone/something up to the point where there's almost nothing the opponent/thing can do to stop it, i.e. Marth having the grab thing on Ness, i.e. smoking marijuana gimping your random piss test
2) F***ing somebody's recovery in a way thats hard to avoid, i.e. Lucario's upB not doing any damage so there's no risk in jumping to intercept at any point
3) Making an image in the photoshop-wannabe drawing tool called The Gimp

lol, that was hilarious but true. NOw to the real topic:

Is the Wolf Flash ONLY for recovery??? Wrong. It's more then just a recovery move, but a finisher, set-up, and a counter in all aspects. Learning to use your wolf flash in situations that deem it as an actual attack shows your opponents that he SHOULD be scared under all circumstances. Tired of that same old chase when you hit them in the air? Well then use your Flash to get them back to the ground OR kill them for that stock. Taking advantage of the flashes distance can even further link a combo that would seem nearly unable to reach(ex. knocking your opponent horizzontally some distance, and to get an extra hit in, you hit wolf the flash which will most likely cause the spike to activate). Another good combo with is just simply juggling your enemy a few times with Uair and then faking them out by following up with a Double jump>wolf flash, sending them DOwn or to their deaths because of the horizontal spike. either way, it keeps them guessing and surprises the crap out of them. Setting up your opponent with blaster spam to then wolf flash them can be just as enjoyable as the first. And stopping your enemy from effectively edgehogging you because you spiked the crap out of him while scarring the edge.

Loup17 · May 23, 2008

agreed, the wolf flash is one of my favorite moves in the game, it took me a while to get good at judging when i can pull it off, but that just makes it all the more satisfying every time i hit with it, especially when it kills them.

snadmonkey · May 23, 2008

wolf flash is a dangerous move to do when not recovering. even if you time it perfectly, if you spike em down to the stage they can easily tech it and punish you with a smash, and if they don't tech can get u with a standing up attack. so not only do you have to get it in the magic window, but it has to be horizontal knockback. Not to mention that if ur opponent is any good you shouldn't be able to reliably predict his movements that far away, and u'll miss and get punished for it. It seems the risk don't out weight the benefits. While recovering, it can be very good to attack with, especially with scarring and semiscarring to catch people off gaurd.

Tomato Kirby · May 23, 2008

Wolf Flash when not recovering? The opportunities are rare, and I agree with snadmonkey that the risks outweigh the benefits. Even if anyone uses Wolf Flash outside of recovery, I cannot see using it often, still. My friends that main Wolf almost never seem to use Wolf Flash outside of recovery. Of course, it just might be my SSBM senses...

Captain Sa10, a video of you doing all of that or the post was an infomercial. The double jump fake-out you mentioned seems like a candidate for the air dodge-->punish. For the edge-guard, I see myself Hugging for invincibility frames. I guess I could see the rest of the post happening (rarely), otherwise. When I do see that video, my respect for Wolf Flash will dramatically increase.

...Although being a not-Wolf main, I would hate to be proven wrong.

chronoize · May 23, 2008

the only times i use the wolf flash, or illusion outside of recovery is after the AAA combo at a high percentage. I dont do this every time, probably once out of every 5 matches. it comes at a surprise and has a possiblilty of a KO

Skiba D · May 23, 2008

Man why the **** we cant get a thread like this in the Link and Fox boards!!!

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